Batman vs. Superman is actually The Justice League

Well, if they just go with Supes, WW and Bats, then it could work. Supes and Bats have plenty of screen time in previous movies, so no backstory needs to be established, although deciding which interpretation of Batman to use will be interesting.

They could just go with the super action from the first moment, and fill in WW's background in bits and pieces during the movie. I prefer that approach. Make her a mystery to Supes and Bats at first, but someone they naturally team up with, long before they start thinking of themselves as JL. Maybe she gets Bats or Supes out of a jam, which impresses both of them. But in that regard, it will be important to show her as newly arrived on Earth and not as an established super heroine. It would be fun to see a script with Kal El and Batman both reacting to meeting (and fighting beside) Diana for the first time. Up to now, the only female that Kal El has met who can match his power is Fiora, and she was hardly trying to be his friend.

Given that MOS didn't really develop the romantic angle of Lois and Clark's relationship, that will undoubtably be developed in MOS2(JL). It might be interesting to see how Clark/Kal and Lois deal with an Amazon in their midst. Will Lois be jealous or insecure and will that drive them together faster? I think it's a given that Diana will be all warrior and Amazon, perhaps even correctly portrayed as a lesbian, although probably not in so many words. More along the lines of a woman from a special race, all of whose members are all female and who distrust and perhaps even hate men. (In the canonical backstory, any man who sets foot on Paradise Island must be killed. If not for Diana's intervention, that would have been Steve Trevor's fate when his plane crashed near there). She won't be a hater (perhaps alone among the Amazons in that regard), but she'll be slow to trust men or their motivations, at least at first. Or so I see it.

So yeah, I think they could handle a movie depicting the formation and first exploits of the Justice League without a WW solo movie first. WW is iconic enough that everyone would know that she's earned the right to stand beside Supes and Batman. Don't have to prove that on-screen first. The only people who won't know that at first will be the characters in the movie. We get to watch as she proves herself to them, and vice-versa. The actual formation of the JL as an organization would perhaps be the final scene of the movie, perhaps with a brief glimpse of Flash and maybe others as a teaser.

But a JL movie would bomb if they try to shoehorn in Flash and other members of the JL as part of the main plot. They should wait to grow the JL beyond the first three heavy-hitters in subsequent movies.

Shadar

I remember when i read a reprint of the first issue of Justice Leauge when they fought Starro- fun issue. Its a giant Starfish, thats vulnerable to Lime.

Green Lanten, Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and yes everyones favorite Aquaman.

And of course Superman and Batman appear both appear about a pannel- superman was dealing with a metor storm, Batman with crooks.

It was one of the tricks of justice leauge in pretty much all of its comic appearences- Superman and Batman don't actually appear much in them. Superman cause he can usually deal with everything. Batman becuse for him to effect at all he tends to appear just silly ubermench.

So what tends to happen is you have kind of powerful characters figuring out a solution to a problem. its a fun formula that works well. Its each can do something well, and they do it. I think a Justice Leauge Movie would be great-precisly becuse unlike say the avengers the formula tends to be they don't so much fight as playflly bicker.

And i would argue a worlds finnest Batman Superman movie could work as well. When done well in ways that aren't "Superman flies Batman around", They our diffrent characters with diffrent modulatilies that play well agianst each other.

But thats the thing- i am not sure what Wonder Woman adds to the mix. Its a 2 point story. A third-well not so much. Wonder Woman is great when she works with the justice leauge-shes good at creating a perspective to there story. Batman and Superman-well.....i hope shes not "stop fighting boys" type.

I would argue they give the flash a movie, Wonder Woman A movie, Maybe Aquaman a movie(which yes maybe a silly character but probabbly a pretty awesome looking if nothing else). Make A justice Leauge movie. But thats me.

Castor

Shadar: "I think it's a given that Diana will be all warrior and Amazon, perhaps even correctly portrayed as a lesbian, although probably not in so many words."

This is probably the only part of your post with which I would disagree; having her as a lesbian would detract from any such anxiety that Lois would have (among other issues). I absolutely agree that it's imperative that they not aimlessly try to shoehorn into this movie other less known superheroes. A full JLA movie could work after they establish the "Trinity" of DC.

Who knows at this stage, you may very well be right, but my suspicion is that LGBT issues are well-enough established in modern Western society that hinting at the sexuality of Amazons could fly. But to your point, its very possible that while that's the norm for Amazons, Diana is fascinated (and horrified) by men, and that could have a sexual spin. She has often been portrayed as being alone among her people in caring for men, however the definition of her "caring" is complex. It's often expressed in terms of her being willing to "deal with the world of men". Other Amazons want nothing to do with "man's world" (which of course includes the women on Earth). Kind of strange terminology and distinctions, calling men and women of Earth both part of "man's world", and probably too subtle for the movie, so perhaps this will all be addressed via innuendo or supposition on the part of one of the other characters. Or not dealt with at all.

But I will be interested to see how the writers develop Lois and Clark's romantic relationship, especially with Diana in the scene. Will Diana even understand the nuances of male/female "courtship"? There could be some room for humor here, assuming the movie has any humor.

The lack of humor was a major problem with MOS, at least IMHO. Some things can be outrageously funny to the audience, even if the characters play it straight. But that implies good writing and directing and some understanding of subtlety and the elements of humor. We'll see.

Shadar

algae2k wrote: Shadar: "I think it's a given that Diana will be all warrior and Amazon, perhaps even correctly portrayed as a lesbian, although probably not in so many words."

This is probably the only part of your post with which I would disagree; having her as a lesbian would detract from any such anxiety that Lois would have (among other issues). I absolutely agree that it's imperative that they not aimlessly try to shoehorn into this movie other less known superheroes. A full JLA movie could work after they establish the "Trinity" of DC.

It's also worth noting that studios are not as concerned with a Western audience as you might think. So much in recent movies have had to be either written in a certain way or localized differently to have access to other markets (e.g., China, the Middle East). Those are $$$s so significant to their bottom line as to undercut any chance of such a hint (which I haven't even seen). I've seen plenty of strong feminism notes, and even that would have to be written in an unconventional way to bypass their censors.

Good point... if I run with that, it seems a bit odd that so many of these movies are USA-centric (casting, setting, language, popular culture, etc. etc.), but they bypass key aspects of the post-modern American experience and our rapidly changing culture to avoid alienating others. A shame in a way, given the movies are set in the USA, but the financial bottom-line is king.

Of course, most aspects of American culture get exported in bits and pieces over time regardless. That's not a value judgement, just an observation from someone who lived in Asia for nearly ten years. I found people were rarely offended by seeing things on screen that didn't translate to the local culture, and censors seemed to focus more on depictions that violated their national identity -- i.e. obvious racism against the Chinese for example. Violence tends to be fine, and vague references to alternate sexual dispositions weren't an issue, but frank depictions of sexuality, even straight sexuality, were. Singapore, for instance, would show the raciest movies, but only to adults over 21. If they want to get the kids and families, then the criteria on sexuality is set lower than in the US. A PG-13 here might be the equivalent of an R there. But again, violence was no issue in films. At least when I lived there. And they usual dealt with the sexuality by editing the film for local consumption. Something that really pissed off most people I knew.

So, we'll see how they handle an Amazon who comes from an alien but also lesbian culture. The comics, of course, didn't touch on sexuality, and avoided the entire subject. That's hard to do in movies today, but perhaps that's how MOS2 will deal with it. By ignoring it. I hope not, but I wouldn't bet against you on this one.

Shadar

algae2k wrote: It's also worth noting that studios are not as concerned with a Western audience as you might think. So much in recent movies have had to be either written in a certain way or localized differently to have access to other markets (e.g., China, the Middle East). Those are $$$s so significant to their bottom line as to undercut any chance of such a hint (which I haven't even seen). I've seen plenty of strong feminism notes, and even that would have to be written in an unconventional way to bypass their censors.

From what I've been hearing, Batman/Superman is still being treated as a MoS sequel as well as a "stepping off point" to a possible Justice League movie. (The full JL movie may actually shoot later this year)
Seriously, do NOT get your hopes up over Wonder Woman. Warner Brothers is only interested in using her as a sidekick/love interest/eye candy character. Gal Gadot has signed a 4 movie deal that does NOT include a stand-alone WW film.
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has signed a deal with DC that's most likely the actual Justice League movie, so it really looks like WB is taking a shortcut to the JL movie, instead of giving each character their won film all Avengers style.
Another thing to keep in mind; while it's true that movies are making more international money than ever before, the studios only get to keep an itty-bitty percentage of the overseas earnings. Domestic earnings are the only numbers studios (especially WB) really care about.

Anon wrote: My current guess is that Warner is desperatly trying to play catch up with Marvel Studio and the Avengers franchise. Unfortunatly they're doing it the wrong way. As Jess observed they seem more eager to get to all-team movie than they're to flesh out the individual characters.
The Avengers worked because out of all the 8 main characters (I count Coulson and Fury in this number) 6 were already fleshed out and all of them already had a bit of screentime (even if in Hawkeye case it was just a cameo). This allowed the writers to create a story centered around team-building instead of individual characterization, which made the story flow more naturally.
Pumping out a JLA movie now would mean that 3/4 of the story at least will be dedicated to introducing new characters, which will probably result in a fragmented story with very little appeal to the non-comicbook-reading audience.

I suspect part of the logic here was the Green Lantern-which is procieved to be a failure. An indivdual DC movie thats not superman or Batman fail for them-conventional wisdom.

Yet heres the thing. Green Lantern made like 220 million dollars in america and more over seas. It wasn't a great movie[it felt like generic superhermovie 12] but thats not a problem. It did better i think then the Hulk, Captian america and a number of Marvel Movies.

It failed to a degree as the movie was overbudgeted as fuck(all of the costumes where CGI for no good reason[actually one of my good friends worked on the costumes so don't tell him that]. Man of Steel is probabbly only marginally proffitable for the same reason

So Don't make Wonder Womans costume CGI. Really you could probabbly do a studio level wonder woman movie for not that much.

One of thing of the avengers is it doesn't spend much time explaining what it is-it is a teamup of characters you have seen before-and it does it pretty well. Just putting characters on the screen as a team(or the backup squad to Superman or batman)...and well..

Who knows.