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Suicide Squad

18 Aug 2016 14:22 #49673 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad
Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.

That particular report on Leto is from some fan site that not one member of the media heard or verified themselves (It says that right there in the "story" if you are curious). What happened to getting at least two sources before running with a story? Or how about, I don't know, asking Leto himself?!!!

These desperate grab for clicks is getting ridiculous...

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18 Aug 2016 16:44 #49674 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

Markiehoe wrote: Well here is a twist.
Jared Leto is not happy with the final product and has not seen the film.
This is after going on a promotional tour asking us to see the movie.
Reminds me of Kate Mara and Fantastic Four last year.

uk.movies.yahoo.com/jared-leto-reportedl...-into-184403204.html


This guy is right. I wonder how many members of the media are going to step up and say they made a mistake when running with this "story"?:

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18 Aug 2016 21:05 #49677 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

jdrock24 wrote: Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.

That particular report on Leto is from some fan site that not one member of the media heard or verified themselves (It says that right there in the "story" if you are curious). What happened to getting at least two sources before running with a story? Or how about, I don't know, asking Leto himself?!!!

These desperate grab for clicks is getting ridiculous...


It was intresting-i mentioned the conversation i got into last week, and talked to a lot of people about the failure of the film, its going to loose money etc. Just a lot of venom and bile and hate on it.

One of the people who did was one of the proveribal "Get checks from marvel" type-in that he actually is an employee for Marvel(he works for the website)-and got to say. He was one of the most possitive abot it. They way people seem to really hate these movies is...i donno. i guess it goes back to the comics and old likes and dislikes..but i donno.

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18 Aug 2016 21:50 #49678 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad
Just passed $500M worldwide.....

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18 Aug 2016 21:57 #49679 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Suicide Squad
What did I say that was not true?
Jared Leto is not happy with the film.
He has not seen the film.
He went on a promotional tour asking people to see a film he has not seen.
Kate Mara did and said similar things.

I am actually very happy Suicide Squad is doing well.
I may not like the movie but I am glad others do.
It means more Comic book super type story movies in the future.
Hopefully we will get more Ubergirl movies.

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18 Aug 2016 22:29 #49680 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

Markiehoe wrote: What did I say that was not true?
Jared Leto is not happy with the film.
He has not seen the film.
He went on a promotional tour asking people to see a film he has not seen.
Kate Mara did and said similar things.


A couple of points:

-I don't know if he is not happy. I think he is disappointed that his Joker was not in it more. Frankly, I was too until I realized that this is a Suicide Squad movie and not a Joker movie. Admittedly, I think it would have been great if Joker was the villain instead of who we got. Hopefully, he appears in future DCEU movies and causes some trouble.

- I don't think it is that unusual for actors to refuse to view their own movies. Leto said he has never seen Dallas Buyer's Club, a film for which he won an Oscar. Jesse Eisenberg said he's never watched any of his movies either. I'm sure there are others. Point being, this should not be construed as some kind of negative. Some people just don't like watching themselves on screen. Personally, I hate hearing the sound of my own voice (like on a recording). I sound all scratchy and nasally.

I am actually very happy Suicide Squad is doing well.
I may not like the movie but I am glad others do.
It means more Comic book super type story movies in the future.
Hopefully we will get more Ubergirl movies.


I'm glad we agree on something...

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18 Aug 2016 23:12 - 18 Aug 2016 23:14 #49681 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

Just passed $500M worldwide.....


According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P

It will hit $500,000,000 this weekend (I assume).

Anywho. This, while on the surface looks impressive, one should consider the following. Out of the box office gross, a studio gets, being generous, 50%. So, what does that mean for Suicide Squad?

Box Office Mojo has its production budget as $175 million. Factoring in a marketing budget of, best guess for these big blockbusters, $100 million, puts the total cost of Suicide Squad at $275,000,000.

Even hitting the $500,000,000 mark, the film will barely break even, let alone make the profit margin big execs expect.

Now, why would I bother posting something like that? Or any criticism? What is the point?

Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.


Contrary to popular belief, I (and I can only speak for myself here) don’t hate this film, and DC films in general, for the sake of hating.

Like I have said, there are many, MANY reasons why I dislike this film. And it is not just to be “cool”.

The reason for this, like I’ve said before, is because I as a fan, want BETTER films of my favorite DC characters that I grew up reading. And I'm not getting that, on any level.

Now on the other end of the spectrum, we have people who defend these films. Vehemently in some cases. Fine.

However, the “defenders” also create a problem. The problem is if people keep “supporting” these films, then WB will not improve them. The solution? If people criticize them, then they will improve. A win-win for all.

I don’t mind debate. Thus if anyone can offer a reasoned argument as to why this film is good (outside of “You’re just too dumb to get it” or “Well I like it, screw what others say”) I will change my mind (for the purpose of this debate, we will ignore Man of Steel and BvS).

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 18 Aug 2016 23:14 by kikass2014.

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18 Aug 2016 23:13 #49682 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Suicide Squad

jdrock24 wrote:

Markiehoe wrote: Well here is a twist.
Jared Leto is not happy with the final product and has not seen the film.
This is after going on a promotional tour asking us to see the movie.
Reminds me of Kate Mara and Fantastic Four last year.

uk.movies.yahoo.com/jared-leto-reportedl...-into-184403204.html


This guy is right. I wonder how many members of the media are going to step up and say they made a mistake when running with this "story"?:


Pretty much this guys entire point was in both articles;

[Leto allegedly also revealed that Warner Bros made him sign a contract that stopped him from partaking in the likes of rock climbing and other dangerous activities to prevent injury.

Leto is believed to have responded to this part of his contract by yelling “f*** ‘em,” and then presumably taking part in them anyway./quote]

It could have been edited but that the exact impression that I got when I read it soon after it was first posted here. The second batman site even links to a bbc radio interview if you really want to hear what Leto thinks about it.

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18 Aug 2016 23:31 #49683 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Suicide Squad
[quote="- I don't think it is that unusual for actors to refuse to view their own movies. Leto said he has never seen Dallas Buyer's Club, a film for which he won an Oscar. Jesse Eisenberg said he's never watched any of his movies either. I'm sure there are others. Point being, this should not be construed as some kind of negative. Some people just don't like watching themselves on screen. Personally, I hate hearing the sound of my own voice (like on a recording). I sound all scratchy and nasally.


In my day job I build things to make a living. I try to do my best and I will stand next to anything I build.
In my night job I write and make videos.
This is a team effort. I read the finished product of my comics work and I watch the videos after the editors get done.
It is a team effort and I support the team. I also like to see what I have done so i can do better next time.

And I also hate the sound of my own voice. So I try to effect a different voice when I speak on videos.

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19 Aug 2016 02:52 #49685 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote: According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P


It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark

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19 Aug 2016 03:24 #49686 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

lfan wrote:

kikass2014 wrote: According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P


It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


I think box office mojo only does the weekened by weekend, and maybe a little slow to report foriegn. In any case in other markets movies do a little more business on Sunday and other days.

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19 Aug 2016 03:36 #49688 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote:

Just passed $500M worldwide.....


According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P

It will hit $500,000,000 this weekend (I assume).

Anywho. This, while on the surface looks impressive, one should consider the following. Out of the box office gross, a studio gets, being generous, 50%. So, what does that mean for Suicide Squad?

Box Office Mojo has its production budget as $175 million. Factoring in a marketing budget of, best guess for these big blockbusters, $100 million, puts the total cost of Suicide Squad at $275,000,000.

Even hitting the $500,000,000 mark, the film will barely break even, let alone make the profit margin big execs expect.

Now, why would I bother posting something like that? Or any criticism? What is the point?

/K


I think your largely right. I think all said in done its going do around 250 but thats an unkown

but things which are often ignored

1. Tax credits: Warner Brothers filmed it in Ontario which gives about 25% of the budget back for the pleasure to film there. Now this is only production cost not special effects and other post, but thats probabbly 30-40 or so million.

2. Dvd, Streaming and Blueray are still things. Not as big but still big. TV to. One of the real appeals of PG-13 is you can show it on cable. For a big studio movie this can pump out 75-100 million. It should be noted that there are countries where this is most of movies.

3. The movie has moved a fair amount of merchandise. This isn't like it used to be for star wars but i am going to guess probabbly about 15-20 million.

4. There i a little benefit from intelectual property exposure. As stated: this movie i thought was kind of a backdoor pilot for a Harley Quinn movie, and they have that. Honestly it still is a pretty good call for a squeal It should be noted that of all the DC and Marvel movies- the sequal always made more money. .

Which i think goes a point. is the movie way overbudgeted? yeah. I bet Someone is regretting this right now...and there is going to be calls to lower the budget next time.

But that said-all things considered this movie is probabbly going to make i am going to say around 100 million in world wide proffit. Acording to the chart(which i am oging to update this week or next) its almost certainly going to beat AntMan this weekend in terms of global revenue, and will see from there.

So yeah.
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19 Aug 2016 12:53 #49695 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


Silly man. Don't you know that Box Office Mojo is the bible when it comes to box office figures. Like Vogue is to fashion B)

j/k :P

Peace.

/K

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19 Aug 2016 13:47 #49698 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote:

It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


Silly man. Don't you know that Box Office Mojo is the bible when it comes to box office figures. Like Vogue is to fashion B)

j/k :P

Peace.

/K


:) Far be it from me to read a studio press release as gospel (pun intended), but while BOMojo is the de facto standard, it lags -- as Castor says -- for the foreign markets. That's the discrepancy probably....

ElF

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19 Aug 2016 15:25 #49702 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

Far be it from me to read a studio press release as gospel (pun intended)...


:D LOL nice. Touche :)

Peace.

/K

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19 Aug 2016 15:38 #49704 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad
No one except the top executives at the studio know exactly how profitable a film really is or what the break even point is. I'm an auditor in my day job (not in the film industry) and I can see how revenue and costs can both easily be swept away in various accounting maneuvers in order to get the numbers to say what you want them to say for any given situation.

For example, every studio has various subsidiary companies that a film (which is it's own subsidiary company of the studio) hires to provide services for. Like Disney's catering company that provides food to the cast and crew during filming. The film pays the catering company for the meals, thus showing a cost to the film but revenue to the catering company. In reality though, that cost never left Disney since they own both of the subsidiary companies, making it a wash in the overall balance sheet of the studio.

As you can see from this small example, this can quickly become absurdly complicated. When you get into tax breaks, international box office deals, merchandise revenue, actor contracts, insurance, financing partners, etc...there is no way anyone on the outside can reasonably guess how much a movie needs to make in order to be profitable. Heck, I bet there is even some disagreement within the executive suites at every big studio about the break-even number for any given movie. It's all in how you look at the numbers and how you interpret them.

So the next time someone makes the grand statement that "So and so film has to make this much to be profitable" know that they are probably talking out of their @$$ and don't know anything.

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19 Aug 2016 15:47 #49705 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Suicide Squad
Finally last week Suicide Squad finally came out here too, so I can prperly comment on it.

I have to be very brutal, the general feeling I got was that of a movie that tried to pack too much into a too small package and that would eneormously benefit from being at least 30 minutes longer.
What I think make me cringe the most was how uneven the character development was, I'm not talking about Slipknot, who was clearly there to die, but the fact that there was so much focus on Deadshot and Harley that almost none of the other characters had the chance to be much -- except the darkhorse of the bunch El Diablo. th worst victims in this sensa are Croc and Katana, whose entire characterizations amounted to a single scene and some one-liners; and poor Digger Harness, who got the short end of the stick from minute one. Other charactes were hit or miss by the scene, but I generally enjoyed them.
Waller was spot on and I loved every minute she was on scene.
Harley was reasonably fun and crazy, although I think that the whole Joker storyline was more or less insignificant to the overall story.
Deadshot was a no go for me. As much as Will Smith looked great in the action scenes and he did, he just felt too much of a Will Smith antihero and not enough Floyd Lawton. In my mind Deadshot is more or less like Lampourde from "Captain Fracasse", a hired killer with style, a man who would take a one dollar job because he find it a challenge over a milion dollar routine hit. Above all he is a man who wouldn't condone a betrayal; as far as I', concerned there was no way he would miss Harley like he did when she tried to run.
The big issue is that I can see the possibilities of this movie, I think it was just mere inches from being great, but they were drowned by the need to push the big name actors up-front (can someone please took that camera off Will Smith for a second, please?) and a story that had some egregious holes that need to be fixed.
I think that it suffer from one of the usual problems of team movies: it had to sacrifice one out of three elements (characterization, team building or story) and it kind of shaved some out of all of them.

Did I enjoyed Suicide Squad?
Sort of. It's the kind of movie where the great scenes are really good to watch, but otherwise didn't get me going.
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19 Aug 2016 17:38 #49711 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

No one except the top executives at the studio know exactly how profitable a film really is or what the break even point is.


While this is true to a certain extent, I think its fair to say that most avid film buffs can make educated guess at what that point is, based on factors known.

So the next time someone makes the grand statement that "So and so film has to make this much to be profitable" know that they are probably talking out of their @$$ and don't know anything.


Good to know. Didn't know I was talking out of my @$$ and didn't know anything. Thank you for that insight.

Peace.

/K

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19 Aug 2016 18:01 #49713 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

jdrock24 wrote:
For example, every studio has various subsidiary companies that a film (which is it's own subsidiary company of the studio) hires to provide services for. Like Disney's catering company that provides food to the cast and crew during filming. The film pays the catering company for the meals, thus showing a cost to the film but revenue to the catering company. In reality though, that cost never left Disney since they own both of the subsidiary companies, making it a wash in the overall balance sheet of the studio.
.


I may have told this story before, but it is intresting:

Once had a neat conversation with a former VP at Disney in charge of production. He was doing the Disney Channel Original programing and movies. They have a big Studio in Burbank in LA. He was filming his movies there, and doing a decent job of it-it can be easier to do certainly. However it was determined by the higher ups that he whould have to charge them the cost of renting the studio they use for other productions-in effect it wasn't the disney studio just the studio Disney happened to own.

It was now to expensive to filmthere so they had to move out...Even though Burbanks studio was often after that empty(and from what i gather it has improved but still kinda empty), and they where paying for expensive space elsewhere. This is one of the reasons he became a former executive..

I don't think this is totally applicable to Squad, but thought i would mention it.

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19 Aug 2016 19:04 - 19 Aug 2016 19:06 #49718 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Suicide Squad

castor wrote:

jdrock24 wrote:
For example, every studio has various subsidiary companies that a film (which is it's own subsidiary company of the studio) hires to provide services for. Like Disney's catering company that provides food to the cast and crew during filming. The film pays the catering company for the meals, thus showing a cost to the film but revenue to the catering company. In reality though, that cost never left Disney since they own both of the subsidiary companies, making it a wash in the overall balance sheet of the studio.
.


I may have told this story before, but it is intresting:

Once had a neat conversation with a former VP at Disney in charge of production. He was doing the Disney Channel Original programing and movies. They have a big Studio in Burbank in LA. He was filming his movies there, and doing a decent job of it-it can be easier to do certainly. However it was determined by the higher ups that he whould have to charge them the cost of renting the studio they use for other productions-in effect it wasn't the disney studio just the studio Disney happened to own.

It was now to expensive to filmthere so they had to move out...Even though Burbanks studio was often after that empty(and from what i gather it has improved but still kinda empty), and they where paying for expensive space elsewhere. This is one of the reasons he became a former executive..

I don't think this is totally applicable to Squad, but thought i would mention it.


This was a common enough thing in other industries too. How costs were attributed could make or break projects, which was one reason why Finance combined with internal politics could enable or doom new ventures.

Firms that succeed (think Apple) know this well and they often bias the system to load existing products with as much cost as they can get away with so as to make it less expensive to try out new ideas. In reality, the money doesn't change much, only what area of the operation they want to burden with it. Which can have a profound effects on how a business runs. All of which takes us back to politics (or at best strategy) as the driver, but in some poorly managed companies, its just simple incompetence.
Last edit: 19 Aug 2016 19:06 by shadar.

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19 Aug 2016 19:15 - 19 Aug 2016 19:15 #49722 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad
It is common in several industries that I've worked and consulted in as well --- from car manufacturers to resort and hospitality. "Wooden nickels" are the GAO's best friend at certain organizations. ::P:

With respect to this, as well as the speculation of box office numbers, it reminds me of the joke where the CEO asks his head bean counter/actuary 'what do the numbers show?' and the statistician looks back at him, shuts the door, closes the blinds and responds "what do you want the numbers to show?"
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19 Aug 2016 19:21 #49724 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Suicide Squad

lfan wrote: It is common in several industries that I've worked and consulted in as well --- from car manufacturers to resort and hospitality. "Wooden nickels" are the GAO's best friend at certain organizations. ::P:

With respect to this, as well as the speculation of box office numbers, it reminds me of the joke where the CEO asks his head bean counter/actuary 'what do the numbers show?' and the statistician looks back at him, shuts the door, closes the blinds and responds "what do you want the numbers to show?"


In very large multi-national companies, this is absolutely true. Been there. Nations try to legislate this stuff and sign treaties and the like, but that simply narrows the window for this kind of stuff, and doesn't eliminate it

From everything I read, the movie industry might be the worst industry out there for what I would call "directed accounting".

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19 Aug 2016 19:36 #49727 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote: While this is true to a certain extent, I think its fair to say that most avid film buffs can make educated guess at what that point is, based on factors known.


That's the whole point of my post! It is still just a "guess". And since when does a "film buff" know all about the various accounting tricks studios use to get movies made? Their "guesses" are no more valid than any random person on the street.

Good to know. Didn't know I was talking out of my @$$ and didn't know anything. Thank you.


If you are making the claim that your guess is somehow superior to everyone else because you are a "film buff", then I don't know what to tell you. :laugh:

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19 Aug 2016 19:42 #49728 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

lfan wrote: It is common in several industries that I've worked and consulted in as well --- from car manufacturers to resort and hospitality. "Wooden nickels" are the GAO's best friend at certain organizations. ::P:

With respect to this, as well as the speculation of box office numbers, it reminds me of the joke where the CEO asks his head bean counter/actuary 'what do the numbers show?' and the statistician looks back at him, shuts the door, closes the blinds and responds "what do you want the numbers to show?"


Exactly!

It always amazes me when these big companies can go to their investors, show them their financials, and say "Look at our profits! We're the greatest company in history!" However, using those same figures, can go to the tax man and say "We made no money. We're poor. Therefore, we don't owe you a thing."

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20 Aug 2016 02:16 #49734 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

That's the whole point of my post! It is still just a "guess".


Thank you Captain Obvious. Never have I said the figures were fact. I think I actually mentioned that all this is best guess territory. NOBODY is saying these are facts.

And since when does a "film buff" know all about the various accounting tricks studios use to get movies made?


You do realise people in the industry talk outside of it and about it right? You do realise there are books written about making films? The movie industry is not some CIA-esque, shadowy, cloak-and-dagger business. And no amount of “accounting tricks” can make a $200 million dollar film cost $2.15 on the books.

Their "guesses" are no more valid than any random person on the street.


No, not really. I’ll give you a simple example. The guess of an “expert” surely carries more validity then a random person on the street? Sure, neither of them can be 100% correct, since it is a guess. But who would you be more inclined to side with?

If you are making the claim that your guess is somehow superior to everyone else because you are a "film buff", then I don't know what to tell you.


Didn't make that claim.

Peace.

/K

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