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A question for readers

27 Mar 2010 22:51 #18612 by argonaut
A question for readers was created by argonaut
Ace and I had a difference of opinion while drafting the next chapter of "The Supergirl of Smallville." It may seem like a trivial matter, but each of us was strongly committed to his own point of view, and we exchanged quite a few emails on the subject. We eventually smoothed things over, but I thought it might be interesting to see if readers had anything to say one way or another.

Specifically, the question was: Should Lana's super-hearing be limited by the speed of sound?

Here's what I think is a "fair and balanced" summary of our two postions. Hopefully, you won't be able to tell which point of view is mine and which is Ace's. Bear in mind that we're both math-and-science guys. I even flipped a coin to see which position would be A and which B.

A. Lana's super-hearing enables her to hear sounds too soft for ordinary ears, and frequencies far beyond the normal human range. But in order for her to hear something, the sound waves have to reach her ears first. If a bank alarm goes off twenty miles away, she won't hear it until the sound covers the intervening distance -- which will take about two minutes . Lana's powers may be scientifically impossible, but she lives in a world where the laws of science otherwise apply.

B. All of Lana's powers defy scientific explanation -- flying, x-ray vision, you name it. Like any fantasy, our story requires a suspension of disbelief on the reader's part. Just as we have to accept that Lana can fly (somehow) and see through opaque objects (somehow), we have to accept that she can hear distant sounds (somehow) without waiting for the waves to reach her ears. Any decision to constrain her powers by scientific considerations is necessarily abbitrary.

How about it, readers? Do you incline toward position A or position B? To open the question up a bit: To what extent should an author take the laws of science into account when writing a supergirl story?

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27 Mar 2010 23:26 #18614 by JKIJ
Replied by JKIJ on topic Re: A question for readers
My personal preference is for point of view A. I personally find it harder to believe that super-hearing can hear faster than the speed of sound can take the noise to the listener. If position B were to be clearly in a story I'd like there to be an explanation for it, even if the explanation doesn't really make any sense. It would only be an issue to me though if it clearly was made a note of in the story since if Lana somehow hears faster than the speed of sound but the story never points out that she's found out about an incident quicker than should be possible I probably wouldn't realise it was an issue.

I do find it wierd how it's the relatively small things that can make me go "That makes no sense", but that's the way I am. I can certainly sympathise with the point of view that any decision of which scientific considerations to obey are arbitrary though, and in the end while position B might stretch my ability to suspend disbelief, if it's well written it wouldn't concern me for too long.

Certainly an interesting question.

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28 Mar 2010 02:58 #18617 by oldHarmonyMotion
Replied by oldHarmonyMotion on topic Re: A question for readers

Any decision to constrain her powers by scientific considerations is necessarily abbitrary.


This.

You can, of course, dodge the whole topic by not mentioning this point. Supergirl hears bank alarm, Supergirl shows up.

I have never even considered the scientific implications until you outlined them in point A. Of course, what you said makes a lot of sense, but... well, you said it all in point B already.

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28 Mar 2010 04:45 #18618 by yohashuan
Replied by yohashuan on topic Re: A question for readers
I prefer position B. I agree it seems like a weird thing to decide to get all nitpicky science-y over considering we're talking about a 110 lb girl who can fly and take a bullet to the eyeball.

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28 Mar 2010 05:18 #18619 by yaracyrrah
Replied by yaracyrrah on topic Re: A question for readers
Another vote for B.

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28 Mar 2010 05:21 #18620 by sgfan05
Replied by sgfan05 on topic Re: A question for readers
Like others I've never thought about it before.

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28 Mar 2010 11:35 #18622 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Re: A question for readers
Under normal circumstances I would have voted for the "A" option, I usually prefer to insert some kind of limitation to the power interaction to the world. But on the other hand all your stunts are based around the Silver Age/Bronze Age Superman, who was able to easily defy the laws of physics (e.g. give that bullets travel at supersonic speed the moment the gunshot noise reaches Supes ears the target is already done), so for this time I think I'll vote for "B".

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28 Mar 2010 12:39 #18623 by oldHarmonyMotion
Replied by oldHarmonyMotion on topic Re: A question for readers
Don't forget that catching people as they're falling would almost certainly kill them, unless SuperWhoever slowly reduces the speed at which they're falling... which most comics don't depict at all.

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28 Mar 2010 15:17 #18627 by inactive
Replied by inactive on topic Re: A question for readers
Dang, that's a tough one. My initial instinct was for A, but now I'm wavering.

The correct answer is C, and I'll get back to you on what that is...

- GeekSeven

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28 Mar 2010 17:18 #18635 by The Highlander
Replied by The Highlander on topic Re: A question for readers
I started a thread on just this subject a little while ago, and my view is the same now as it was then. I believe that the basic rules of physics should remain the same irrespective of what powers the character has. Since nearly all stories take place in the ‘real’ world then by keeping the physics realistic it makes the story more believable. If you start ignoring the physics(by ignoring the speed of sound for example), then it breaks the suspension of disbelief (at least for me).

Of course if some plausible reason is given for what’s happening (for example, if Lana managed to see the sound waves and figure out from that what they sounded like), then that would be ok. But the more this sort of thing happens the less plausible it is in the long run.

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28 Mar 2010 17:21 #18636 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Re: A question for readers

Dang, that's a tough one. My initial instinct was for A, but now I'm wavering.

The correct answer is C, and I'll get back to you on what that is...


"C. Get a life, you two"?

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28 Mar 2010 18:41 #18638 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Re: A question for readers
My head says A. But my heart says B

This is the type of question you get theology papers.

my thinking for C is to have a modifiled physics model that would explain some but not all of how the superpowers work.

For example flight powers could be based on the idea of Tachyons being projected by the mind or certain muscle groups to propel the super through the air or space.

The use of Tachyons could also explain the idea of supers having the ability to hear a gun going off and having the ability to react in time to stop the bullet, the primer going off in a bullet could cause a distinctive Tachyon pulse signature that the super can detect with their hearing. With Tachyons moving at the speed of light the super would have enough time to react. They [Tachyons] would also explain the great speed that can be generated by supers, with a burst through their legs for example it could create a acceleration force great enough to overcome the delay that is normally encountered through normal power methods.

One thing Tachyons could not help with is with x-ray vision, here a differing form of radiation would be needed to enable the special vision to be usable without affecting matter that is being "looked through", here Theta radiation could be used to explain how it could work. Matter is 99.9% space for which the frequency of Theta radiation frequency could be short enough to enable a super to see through the "gaps" in the matter so rendering it invisible to the super thus enabling them to see without the need for a imaging plate.

just my 1.5c worth

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28 Mar 2010 19:08 #18639 by Alexxx
Replied by Alexxx on topic Re: A question for readers
While her powers may defy physics and reality all of them are powers she projects, herself, onto the environment around her by means of her physical or mental output. Therefore she can have super hearing which can hear things around her more than normal mortals that are with her, however if the sound (wave) is not there then she should not be able to hear it as it seems to me hearing is an input function and can't be projected to the other side of the country to hear real time, it must wait for the sound, as faint as it might be, to be input into her ears.

Therefore I'd go for A, but add I would not really be turned off either way.

I also can't believe I answered such a question lol

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29 Mar 2010 02:51 #18644 by Risatara
Replied by Risatara on topic Re: A question for readers
Okay, let me think about it. I prefer version B and I can explain how it could be. On the other hand Im no scientist, so my explanations could be totally wrong. :)

Okay, the post over mine says, that hearing is a passive thing. You don't do anything to hear. But you don't do anything to watch, either, but we accept X-Ray Vision all the time. So how about, if sound is produced the waves of the sound produce something, for example by rubbing the atoms together, some kind of radiation, just faint, nobody can really detect it. Nobody, but a super of course. So what if a part of her brain would be deciphering those things all the time and giving alarm when something is in there, thats interesting and sends it to the consciousness? Couldn't it work that way?

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29 Mar 2010 17:44 #18652 by julievelor
Replied by julievelor on topic Re: A question for readers
A.

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29 Mar 2010 18:12 #18653 by Lastleaf
Replied by Lastleaf on topic Re: A question for readers

How about it, readers? Do you incline toward position A or position B? To open the question up a bit: To what extent should an author take the laws of science into account when writing a supergirl story?


Reading Supergirl of Smallville I say your stories are more entrenched with A. It is the way you wrote your stories, too much details.

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29 Mar 2010 18:18 #18654 by eavatar
Replied by eavatar on topic Re: A question for readers
The plain answer is A, but my option is D, she is a "quantic singularity" so the horizon of events conspire on her favor like giving her a "super intuition" which is more likely her mind "predicting" some events in a matter of nanoseconds, making her believe she just listened a bank alarm, etc etc etc.

Going ahead is the only one way to go to the future.

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