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Firefly Supergirl (a.k.a. You Can't Take the Sky From Her)

03 May 2013 22:38 #31354 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Reseeding Progress Report
Just for fun though, here's a deleted scene from the TV series, the last half of which deals with Saffron before anyone (except River) has any idea of her true capability:



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03 May 2013 23:00 #31355 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Reseeding Progress Report

brantley wrote:

shadar wrote: I think I'll try writing a single scene to explore the Firefly Supergirl concept. Just to see if it flies, so to speak.

In my thinking, this would be the original Firefly characters, including the mysterious Book and the Operative, etc. Inara is still on Serenity and things are smoldering but unresolved between she and Mal. The setting would be the end of the aborted TV series and before the Serenity movie closed off a number of story lines and characters. Reevers are still a mystery, etc. Wash is still flying the ship. Kaylee is pining for Simon. Zoe feels a tug of loyalties between Wash and Mal. Jayne is still unpredictable and his loyalties are questionable. River is a mystery that is slowly unfolding, although we know she can be a weapon when triggered (I'd bring that idea back from the movie).

Anyone have a scene concept in mind that would tickle your fancy? It would be nice if this scene could become part of a bigger story. Possibly a multi-author story line.

Once we critique and review the experimental scene, we could decide where our continued Firefly universe is going to go. Biggest question is who is the Supergirl going to be. Zoe? River? inara? Kaylee? But only one in my thinking.

As I see it, we can create super bad guys or girls as opponents as needed to keep the tension high, although we already have the bogeymen (Reevers).

Shadar


I don't have any particular scene to suggest, but since you'll be writing Firefly fan fiction, there are other things you can do while you're at it. Like rationalize the series background. Joss Whedon wanted to create a space western, so the various planets are the equivalent of western towns – the outlying ones, anyway, as opposed to the central worlds of the Alliance. But what does "outlying" mean, and what are "border moons" supposed to be? There are apparently dozens of worlds, all within the Goldilocks zone of habitability. You need a pretty bright star, and a zone large enough to accommodate several orbits, and you could have planets at Trojan points, three for each orbit. Maybe different sets of orbits in different planes. I'm reminded of one of Jack Vance's creations in his Demon Princes series:

<<The Rigel Concourse: a system of 26 planets orbiting Rigel, which were moved into the system in antiquity by a vanished alien race. Their pompous discoverer named them for figures of Victorian literature (such as Bulwer-Lytton and Rudyard Kipling); but the clerk who processed his transmission, Roger Pilgham, replaced the names with a fanciful series of his own devising: Alphanor, Barleycorn, Chrysanthe, Diogenes, Elfland, Fiame, Goshen, Hardacres, Image, Jezebel, Krokinole, Lyonesse, Madagascar, Nowhere, Olliphane, Pilgham (after himself), Quinine, Raratonga, Somewhere, Tantamount, Unicorn, Valisande, Walpurgis, Xion, Ys and Zacaranda. Pilgham also gave a particularly ugly moon the name "Sir Julian" in honor to the discoverer of the entire system.>>

Whedon refers to the worlds of his system as terraformed, but with people just kind of dumped there as in the case of Seeded worlds in the Aurora Universe (and Catherine Asaro's Skolian Empire series; this is an idea that goes back aways in sf).


Well this the official map of the 'Verse for you people. The asusmption is that they are a cluster of 5 star systems in relative proximity, making possible to travel between them using hard burns drive.

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geekseven wrote: Taking brantley's point about the ensemble nature of the show, which is well made...

What about powers that are shared, or alternate, between the female members of the crew?

---

Kaylee woke, floating three inches above the surface of her bunk.

"Guess it's my turn to be super," she said to herself. "No power in the 'verse can stop me. For the next twenty-four hours, leastways."


It seem that G7 and I had the same idea to solve the doubt about who should be the resident super.
Although more people having powers means higher chances to be discovered. I think that adding this element might make the story more interesting, but not right a t the beginning.

shadar wrote: Brantley makes a bunch of good points... the trick is not to disrupt a carefully crafted ensemble.

It occurred to me yesterday that the obvious choice for "superdom" is Saffron (who Brantley probably hasn't encountered yet... I think she appears about 5 or 6 episodes in). She's Companion-trained like Inara, but she's a rogue and she can kick ass. What if Inara was off at the Training House and Saffron comes back onto Serenity, except that she's been enhanced in some ways? She had a devastating effect on the crew the first time, imagine if she came back super, starting by saving their butts when they were in a jam.

But.. if she has reasons to collaborate with the crew, then she tries to take over. She's physically capable of doing so, but she's got a determined crew to deal with.
To make it interesting, she's using Serenity and the crew for her own purposes, all of which are illegal, but which might also greatly profit the crew. But Mal won't be in charge to the degree that he needs to be, so its obviously not going to work for long. I can see Jayne collaborating with Saffron to get rid of Mal and take over.

Of course, nobody would trust Saffron, including Jayne, and she's already proven that her Companion training will pretty much let her seduce anyone, and now she's something more.

Upon discovering that an enhanced Saffron has commandeered "her crew", I'm betting Inara figures out how Saffron became what she is, and undergoes the same procedure. She then returns to deal with Saffron. That could get very intense.

Written this way, the crew dynamics are largely preserved, with the ending of the first "book" being when Saffron is driven off the ship and a very enhanced Inara is now back in the saddle. But... Saffron would still be out there and she'd have Serenity in her sights. Could provide for a good cliffhanger ending book 1 and opening book 2. Not to mention the fact that they now have to deal with an enhanced Inara. That would be welcome at first, but Mal would still have his issues dealing with someone that powerful on his ship. Even if he does have feelings for her.

Could get complicated. Which is the point.

Also, Saffron was played by a young Christina Hendricks, who was seriously hot in the Firefly episodes, and amazingly endowed. I think she was way hotter in Firefly that she has ever been on Madmen.


I know I'm a minority here, but Saffron was never one of my favorite character.
The scenario sound interesting, but I'm not sure about the character dynamics. Saffron already has a pretty powerful grudge against Inara and Mal (due to the events of "Trash"). What would stop a superpowered Saffron from simply eliminating Inara at the first occasion?

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04 May 2013 00:51 #31358 by pansardum
Replied by pansardum on topic Reseeding Progress Report

Anon wrote:
I know I'm a minority here, but Saffron was never one of my favorite character.
The scenario sound interesting, but I'm not sure about the character dynamics. Saffron already has a pretty powerful grudge against Inara and Mal (due to the events of "Trash"). What would stop a superpowered Saffron from simply eliminating Inara at the first occasion?


This first that came to mind for me too, she has only worked with the crew when she had a need for their help. With superpowers this might not be the case.

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04 May 2013 01:56 #31359 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Reseeding Progress Report
In my thinking, Saffron would not eliminate Inara because she's not on Serenity at the beginning of the story. She's at the Training House.

And as far as Mal and the others, I need to invent a scenario where Saffron needs Serenity and their crew.

I'm not planning on making her so powerful that she's unstoppable. I'm thinking partial invulnerability and enhanced strength (sort of She-Hulk level), but no flight ability or anything else. She'll be hundreds of times stronger than any human and able to shrug off being shot by hand weapons, but Vera (who knows who Vera is?) would knock her silly if the aiming point was correct.

Shadar

pansardum wrote:

Anon wrote:
I know I'm a minority here, but Saffron was never one of my favorite character.
The scenario sound interesting, but I'm not sure about the character dynamics. Saffron already has a pretty powerful grudge against Inara and Mal (due to the events of "Trash"). What would stop a superpowered Saffron from simply eliminating Inara at the first occasion?


This first that came to mind for me too, she has only worked with the crew when she had a need for their help. With superpowers this might not be the case.

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04 May 2013 09:27 #31361 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Reseeding Progress Report

shadar wrote: In my thinking, Saffron would not eliminate Inara because she's not on Serenity at the beginning of the story. She's at the Training House.

And as far as Mal and the others, I need to invent a scenario where Saffron needs Serenity and their crew.

I'm not planning on making her so powerful that she's unstoppable. I'm thinking partial invulnerability and enhanced strength (sort of She-Hulk level), but no flight ability or anything else. She'll be hundreds of times stronger than any human and able to shrug off being shot by hand weapons, but Vera (who knows who Vera is?) would knock her silly if the aiming point was correct.

Shadar


Another possibility is that her power (and maybe Inara's too) have some kind of time limit (more or less like Hourman's Miraclo Pill or Ms. Victory's V-47). Meaning that she can use them to pull herself out of a critical situation, but she still needs support.

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04 May 2013 14:54 #31363 by brantley
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Anon wrote:

Well this the official map of the 'Verse for you people. The asusmption is that they are a cluster of 5 star systems in relative proximity, making possible to travel between them using hard burns drive.

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That map led me to look further, and to find this:

firefly.wikia.com/wiki/The_Verse

I was astounded. This is the kind of world-building that I'd never have expected to find on a TV show or in a movie, as opposed to the hard sf of writers like Gregory Benford. In STAR TREK and STAR WARS, the imaginary planets are just somewhere-or-other; I'm sure Roddenberry and Lucas never had a clue (Hal Clement and others used to make a game out of trying to "explain" STAR TREK worlds that didn't make any sense; I don't think they bothered with those in STAR WARS.). No doubt there are some further details about the individual worlds of the 'Verse.

Bottom line: Shadar doesn't have to worry about the background, just check out what's there to make sure that his story conforms to it. Oh, and come up with some rationale for super powers.

--Brantley

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04 May 2013 19:25 #31364 by inactive
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brantley wrote:
Bottom line: Shadar doesn't have to worry about the background, just check out what's there to make sure that his story conforms to it. Oh, and come up with some rationale for super powers.

--Brantley


Serenity is an old ship and some of the things Kaylee has done to the engine to keep her flying are somewhat extreme, and use parts of questionable provenance. Who knows what kind of weird radiation the old girl is pumping out?

- GeekSeven

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05 May 2013 03:49 #31366 by jnw550
Replied by jnw550 on topic Reseeding Progress Report
This is weird for me. A good weird.

In my junior year of high school, in an English writing class- that I obviously still suck at- I boldly wrote a supergirl story. She was a member of a submarine crew, and in her attempt to save the crew, she had to expose herself to the reactor which granted her physical powers much like She Hulk. She Hulk was/is my favorite superheroine. So she saves the submarine by swimming it back to dock and is heralded by the crew and public as a superhero.

I wrote it because I had no idea that it would be "graded" by someone in my class. Thank goodness it was read by Christine Poole, a hot goth girl, and she actually liked it! She said, "I wish that I was that powerful."

Unfortunately, I found out later that she was abused by her dad. She is good and healthy now with two kids of her own and a wonderful life, so don't feel sorry!

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06 May 2013 19:19 #31386 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Reseeding Progress Report
Now that I'm looking at some of the Firefly episodes again, I'm leaning back toward Kaylee having some weird accident with a high-energy engine part that she "borrowed" from "a ship that don't need it no more."

I'm basically running two parallel lines of thought here:

1) The greatest secret of the Alliance is that they have a captured alien ship which contained the bodies of some advanced humanoids. They have been experimenting for decades on trying to inject some of the alien DNA (which is surprisingly close to human, implying a common origin) into test subjects. River was part of that program, which is broken into two lines of research, one focusing on mental improvements and the other physical.

The Physical team within the military wing of the Alliance has made a breakthrough involving in vitro modification of human and alien DNA. Several children have grown into their teenage years, and they are beginning to show immense improvements in physical strength and toughness. Naturally they are training them (like River had been) to become some kind of super-Operative. One of those Operatives is Saffron's daughter. Apparently Saffron was once a subject in their labs before she escaped and managed to con her way into the Training House for Companion training. She since went rogue. Saffron finds her daughter and convinces her to join her misadventures, which lead them back to Serenity.

They are being hunted much as River is being hunted, and by young Operatives with the same powers as Saffron's daughter. I'm debating folding a bit of AU-lore in to explain the alien race, with this taking place after the Velorians and Arions have wiped each other out. These human hybrids are all that remain of the once proud Homo Sapiens Supremis race. Other than that, everything in the story is Firefly universe.

As I see it, Saffron's daughter and River team up to keep the Operatives away, even as Saffron continues to twist the male members of the crew around her pretty fingers. Inara returns and plays a key role in balancing out Saffron.


2) The Kaylee gains super powers because of some engine room malfunction and long-term exposure to weird radiation and stuff.

The first approach is more SF in nature, the second is pretty much comic book science all the way.

Preferences?

Shadar

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07 May 2013 18:12 #31391 by Gliblord
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I love Kaylee so give her the powers!

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07 May 2013 18:41 #31392 by Woodclaw
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shadar wrote: Now that I'm looking at some of the Firefly episodes again, I'm leaning back toward Kaylee having some weird accident with a high-energy engine part that she "borrowed" from "a ship that don't need it no more."

I'm basically running two parallel lines of thought here:

1) The greatest secret of the Alliance is that they have a captured alien ship which contained the bodies of some advanced humanoids. They have been experimenting for decades on trying to inject some of the alien DNA (which is surprisingly close to human, implying a common origin) into test subjects. River was part of that program, which is broken into two lines of research, one focusing on mental improvements and the other physical.

The Physical team within the military wing of the Alliance has made a breakthrough involving in vitro modification of human and alien DNA. Several children have grown into their teenage years, and they are beginning to show immense improvements in physical strength and toughness. Naturally they are training them (like River had been) to become some kind of super-Operative. One of those Operatives is Saffron's daughter. Apparently Saffron was once a subject in their labs before she escaped and managed to con her way into the Training House for Companion training. She since went rogue. Saffron finds her daughter and convinces her to join her misadventures, which lead them back to Serenity.

They are being hunted much as River is being hunted, and by young Operatives with the same powers as Saffron's daughter. I'm debating folding a bit of AU-lore in to explain the alien race, with this taking place after the Velorians and Arions have wiped each other out. These human hybrids are all that remain of the once proud Homo Sapiens Supremis race. Other than that, everything in the story is Firefly universe.

As I see it, Saffron's daughter and River team up to keep the Operatives away, even as Saffron continues to twist the male members of the crew around her pretty fingers. Inara returns and plays a key role in balancing out Saffron.


2) The Kaylee gains super powers because of some engine room malfunction and long-term exposure to weird radiation and stuff.

The first approach is more SF in nature, the second is pretty much comic book science all the way.

Preferences?

Shadar


Both options have their merits. The first one is more suited for a long and very involved narration, while the second is probably better for a single installment story.

One thing about the first outline bugs me though: Saffron is already a pretty unique individual, being a trained companion outside of the Guild, making her a fugitive from the Alliance is a little too much for my tastes.

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07 May 2013 19:47 #31393 by shadar
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Good point on overloading Saffron's backstory... as a Companion operating outside the Guild, she's already a force of nature (and not in a good way) as Mal found out. She easily manipulates men and steals everything they have. That's enough without making her the target of Operatives or whatever. Good feedback. And given she is portrayed as being quite young, she couldn't have a teenage daughter.

I'll keep working on defining my "super character". I'd like her to be good enough to fit onto an extended series of stories, not just a quicky.

Shadar

Anon wrote:

shadar wrote: Now that I'm looking at some of the Firefly episodes again, I'm leaning back toward Kaylee having some weird accident with a high-energy engine part that she "borrowed" from "a ship that don't need it no more."

I'm basically running two parallel lines of thought here:

1) The greatest secret of the Alliance is that they have a captured alien ship which contained the bodies of some advanced humanoids. They have been experimenting for decades on trying to inject some of the alien DNA (which is surprisingly close to human, implying a common origin) into test subjects. River was part of that program, which is broken into two lines of research, one focusing on mental improvements and the other physical.

The Physical team within the military wing of the Alliance has made a breakthrough involving in vitro modification of human and alien DNA. Several children have grown into their teenage years, and they are beginning to show immense improvements in physical strength and toughness. Naturally they are training them (like River had been) to become some kind of super-Operative. One of those Operatives is Saffron's daughter. Apparently Saffron was once a subject in their labs before she escaped and managed to con her way into the Training House for Companion training. She since went rogue. Saffron finds her daughter and convinces her to join her misadventures, which lead them back to Serenity.

They are being hunted much as River is being hunted, and by young Operatives with the same powers as Saffron's daughter. I'm debating folding a bit of AU-lore in to explain the alien race, with this taking place after the Velorians and Arions have wiped each other out. These human hybrids are all that remain of the once proud Homo Sapiens Supremis race. Other than that, everything in the story is Firefly universe.

As I see it, Saffron's daughter and River team up to keep the Operatives away, even as Saffron continues to twist the male members of the crew around her pretty fingers. Inara returns and plays a key role in balancing out Saffron.


2) The Kaylee gains super powers because of some engine room malfunction and long-term exposure to weird radiation and stuff.

The first approach is more SF in nature, the second is pretty much comic book science all the way.

Preferences?

Shadar


Both options have their merits. The first one is more suited for a long and very involved narration, while the second is probably better for a single installment story.

One thing about the first outline bugs me though: Saffron is already a pretty unique individual, being a trained companion outside of the Guild, making her a fugitive from the Alliance is a little too much for my tastes.

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07 May 2013 20:17 #31394 by Woodclaw
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shadar wrote: Good point on overloading Saffron's backstory... as a Companion operating outside the Guild, she's already a force of nature (and not in a good way) as Mal found out. She easily manipulates men and steals everything they have. That's enough without making her the target of Operatives or whatever. Good feedback. And given she is portrayed as being quite young, she couldn't have a teenage daughter.

I'll keep working on defining my "super character". I'd like her to be good enough to fit onto an extended series of stories, not just a quicky.

Shadar


As we said before, maybe the trick would be to focus on the transformation device, instead of the character.
In my mind, Firefly worked because it was a choral story, where the interactions were actually more omportant than the single characters.

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09 May 2013 02:41 - 09 May 2013 03:28 #31403 by brantley
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Gliblord wrote: I love Kaylee so give her the powers!


Disagree totally. I've come to love Kaylee the way she is, having gotten as far in the series as "Jaynestown." Saffron is a better choice precisely because she has only a minor presence in the series. The big problem is that, at least in "Our Mrs. Reynolds," she's a very negative character. But so is Jayne, only his experience on Canton may have shamed him into mending his ways. It would be a good idea for Saffron to have such a transformative experience, as opposed to just physical enhancement (I loved the way Fess Higgins became a real man in more ways than one in the same episode.).

--Brantley
Last edit: 09 May 2013 03:28 by brantley.

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09 May 2013 03:44 - 09 May 2013 03:47 #31404 by brantley
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shadar wrote: Now that I'm looking at some of the Firefly episodes again, I'm leaning back toward Kaylee having some weird accident with a high-energy engine part that she "borrowed" from "a ship that don't need it no more."

I'm basically running two parallel lines of thought here:

1) The greatest secret of the Alliance is that they have a captured alien ship which contained the bodies of some advanced humanoids. They have been experimenting for decades on trying to inject some of the alien DNA (which is surprisingly close to human, implying a common origin) into test subjects. River was part of that program, which is broken into two lines of research, one focusing on mental improvements and the other physical.

The Physical team within the military wing of the Alliance has made a breakthrough involving in vitro modification of human and alien DNA. Several children have grown into their teenage years, and they are beginning to show immense improvements in physical strength and toughness. Naturally they are training them (like River had been) to become some kind of super-Operative. One of those Operatives is Saffron's daughter. Apparently Saffron was once a subject in their labs before she escaped and managed to con her way into the Training House for Companion training. She since went rogue. Saffron finds her daughter and convinces her to join her misadventures, which lead them back to Serenity.

They are being hunted much as River is being hunted, and by young Operatives with the same powers as Saffron's daughter. I'm debating folding a bit of AU-lore in to explain the alien race, with this taking place after the Velorians and Arions have wiped each other out. These human hybrids are all that remain of the once proud Homo Sapiens Supremis race. Other than that, everything in the story is Firefly universe.

As I see it, Saffron's daughter and River team up to keep the Operatives away, even as Saffron continues to twist the male members of the crew around her pretty fingers. Inara returns and plays a key role in balancing out Saffron.

Shadar


Did either the series or the movie address the actual purpose of the Alliance project River was drafted into -- beyond just reading minds (which could be used against dissidents)? If not, I can think of another reason for both that project and the one you propose. In a C.J. Cherryh novel called ANGEL WITH THE SWORD (1985), humans hastily settle an idyllic world that has previously been colonized by some other species and later abandoned. No problem. "Then the former landlords showed up," and bombed the shit out of the human colony. Well, suppose the multi-star system in FIREFLY was previously inhabited by some other species, which left for some arcane alien reason. And that the Alliance finds out that the landlords are on their way back...

--Brantley
Last edit: 09 May 2013 03:47 by brantley.

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09 May 2013 09:19 #31405 by Woodclaw
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brantley wrote: Did either the series or the movie address the actual purpose of the Alliance project River was drafted into -- beyond just reading minds (which could be used against dissidents)? If not, I can think of another reason for both that project and the one you propose. In a C.J. Cherryh novel called ANGEL WITH THE SWORD (1985), humans hastily settle an idyllic world that has previously been colonized by some other species and later abandoned. No problem. "Then the former landlords showed up," and bombed the shit out of the human colony. Well, suppose the multi-star system in FIREFLY was previously inhabited by some other species, which left for some arcane alien reason. And that the Alliance finds out that the landlords are on their way back...

--Brantley


An actual explanation was never really provided, some hints were given here and there, but the meat of the story was never put on screen. According to the DVD commentary, Whedon was planning to introduce the Blue Sun Corporation at some point (possibly in the second season) which was actually responsible for the whole psi-project involving River.
Another thing from the DVD commentaries is that aliens are not part of the Firefly narrative. The whole production team wanted to stay away from the Star Trek style as much as possible so one of the first rules from the production bible was: No aliens.
This doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. It depends on how close one wants to stay to the original style.

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28 Jun 2013 17:40 #32086 by brantley
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Okay, we all know that Shadar would like to turn one of the women of FIREFLY
into a superheroine. And we know that Nathan Fillion, who played Malcolm
Reynolds on the Joss Whedon sf series, is now Richard Castle in CASTLE. Now
Castle has a teenage (at least at the beginning) daughter, Alexis, played by
Molly Bloom. And guess what else Molly has done lately:

www.nerdist.com/2013/05/superman-unbounds-molly-quinn/

I hadn't even heard of this movie, as opposed to MAN OF STEEL (She attended the
premiere of that, although she wasn't in it, according to another link, and has
done Kara cosplay at other media events.). But here's another surprise: Summer
Glau (River Tam on FIREFLY) voiced Kara three years ago in another animated
feature I'd also never heard of, SUPERMAN/BATMAN: APOCALYPSE.

Well, I can't compete with that. But I have updated BEHIND THE STORIES with an
interim account of FIRST PROTECTOR:

www.brightempire.com/behind_stories.htm

--Brantley

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28 Jun 2013 19:29 #32087 by Woodclaw
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brantley wrote: Okay, we all know that Shadar would like to turn one of the women of FIREFLY into a superheroine. And we know that Nathan Fillion, who played Malcolm Reynolds on the Joss Whedon sf series, is now Richard Castle in CASTLE. Now Castle has a teenage (at least at the beginning) daughter, Alexis, played by Molly Bloom. And guess what else Molly has done lately:

www.nerdist.com/2013/05/superman-unbounds-molly-quinn/

I hadn't even heard of this movie, as opposed to MAN OF STEEL (She attended the premiere of that, although she wasn't in it, according to another link, and has done Kara cosplay at other media events.). But here's another surprise: Summer Glau (River Tam on FIREFLY) voiced Kara three years ago in another animated feature I'd also never heard of, SUPERMAN/BATMAN: APOCALYPSE.

Well, I can't compete with that. But I have updated BEHIND THE STORIES with an interim account of FIRST PROTECTOR:

www.brightempire.com/behind_stories.htm

--Brantley


If you want to add something else: Nathan Fillion voiced Hal Jordan in Green Lantern First Flight, Emerald Knights and Justice League Doom. He's also generally considered the best possible bodycast for Hal in the event of a JL movie done right.

Also he voiced Vigilante in Justice League Unlimited who also had Gina Torres (Zoe) voicing Vixen, Morena Baccarin (Inara) as Black Canary and Adam Baldwin (Jayne) doing multiple roles including Rick Flagg and Jonah Hex.

SO there's definitly a connection here.

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