Ratings

I'd say they hit their low water mark.  As long as everyone connected with the show is good with what they are paid, this isn't necessarily a big deal.  I usually only bring up the ratings when people try and perpetuate the myth that promoting leftist political ideas is what has to happen to gain young viewers when that's demonstrably not the case.  At best you can argue that it's what's needed to keep what you have left once you made that political commitment (because going right or even center will not bring viewers back but would likely lose what they kept by going left.)

Let's face it - most of us here want to see a hot girls that are super.  They could be reading the phone book and we wouldn't care (which makes an interesting insight on our own misogyny.)  Of course, I'm also outside the demo so my viewing or not has little impact on advertising.

What I don't understand is why it's so dang hard to create a show that doesn't cheaply pander to one group or another and just makes good characters and good stories.  Years of comics as source material, years of good sci-fi and fantasy authors and the best that can be produced are cheap political stunts?  Heck, even if you believe in the message you'll be far more persuasive by persuading than hitting people over the head with an ideological hammer.

It's like a bad religion - repent or spend eternity in hell!!!  /chuckle. Because that's effective /s.

Starforge wrote: I'd say they hit their low water mark.  As long as everyone connected with the show is good with what they are paid, this isn't necessarily a big deal.  I usually only bring up the ratings when people try and perpetuate the myth that promoting leftist political ideas is what has to happen to gain young viewers when that's demonstrably not the case.  At best you can argue that it's what's needed to keep what you have left once you made that political commitment (because going right or even center will not bring viewers back but would likely lose what they kept by going left.)

Let's face it - most of us here want to see a hot girls that are super.  They could be reading the phone book and we wouldn't care (which makes an interesting insight on our own misogyny.)  Of course, I'm also outside the demo so my viewing or not has little impact on advertising.

What I don't understand is why it's so dang hard to create a show that doesn't cheaply pander to one group or another and just makes good characters and good stories.  Years of comics as source material, years of good sci-fi and fantasy authors and the best that can be produced are cheap political stunts?  Heck, even if you believe in the message you'll be far more persuasive by persuading than hitting people over the head with an ideological hammer.

It's like a bad religion - repent or spend eternity in hell!!!  /chuckle. Because that's effective /s.

Hard to say whether the loss of audience is due to excessive pandering (which clearly got way out of hand) or just really bad storytelling. Are there other shows with terrible, awful storytelling that have large and growing audiences?

But like you, I'm outside the demographic for the show. I just wanted to see a decent exploration of a Kryptonian living among humans and all the challenges and opportunities that presents. And some special effects that are beyond what fan movies can produce. Also a chance to see Kara Zor El shine as a strong character given I've been very fond of her (potential) for many decades. 

Melissa's portrayal of Kara isn't my idea of Kara, although it started off promising in Season 1.. I think some of that comes from the "it's just a silly comicbook character" mentality, which says the storytelliing can be allowed to suck. And let's face it, many (most) of the Kara comics sucked too. She's never been taken very seriously. I've been hoping to see that change in the comics since the 60's, and other than a few bright spots here or there, it hasn't. The Supergirl show is not one of the bright spots, but it could have been.

I remain waiting eagerly for a truly good portrayal of Ms. Zor El. Given this show's poor audience, I don't think they'll try a feature movie about her. But given that I'm a Browncoat (Firefly fan), I'm a sucker for lost causes and great characters and good stories. I'll never give up hoping.  

For now, Expanse keeps me fed. Not as good as the books, but still very good. And with Amazon's upcoming TV series focused on LOTR (my REAL love), I remain hopeful of good TV coming our way. 

Shadar

shadar wrote:
Hard to say whether the loss of audience is due to excessive pandering (which clearly got way out of hand) or just really bad storytelling. Are there other shows with terrible, awful storytelling that have large and growing audiences?

But like you, I'm outside the demographic for the show. I just wanted to see a decent exploration of a Kryptonian living among humans and all the challenges and opportunities that presents. And some special effects that are beyond what fan movies can produce. Also a chance to see Kara Zor El shine as a strong character given I've been very fond of her (potential) for many decades. 

Melissa's portrayal of Kara isn't my idea of Kara, although it started off promising in Season 1.. I think some of that comes from the "it's just a silly comicbook character" mentality, which says the storytelliing can be allowed to suck. And let's face it, many (most) of the Kara comics sucked too. She's never been taken very seriously. I've been hoping to see that change in the comics since the 60's, and other than a few bright spots here or there, it hasn't. The Supergirl show is not one of the bright spots, but it could have been.

I remain waiting eagerly for a truly good portrayal of Ms. Zor El. Given this show's poor audience, I don't think they'll try a feature movie about her. But given that I'm a Browncoat (Firefly fan), I'm a sucker for lost causes and great characters and good stories. I'll never give up hoping.  

For now, Expanse keeps me fed. Not as good as the books, but still very good. And with Amazon's upcoming TV series focused on LOTR (my REAL love), I remain hopeful of good TV coming our way. 

Shadar

You and I seem to have similar tastes.  From Firefly to LOTR to, well, here. 

I can live with some bad writing, it's the pandering that makes me tune out.  I also think you hit on something when you said it's viewed as a 'silly comic book character.'  Too many of the money people trying to sell these shows I believe have little actual appreciation for them.  We want money - give the kids what they want.  It might explain the over the top leftist lean as well - an attempt to sell a product to a perceived market and not an attempt to make a decent show.  Hard to tell.

A movie could work and work well *IF* you can crush 2 things:  First the notion that it's a kid story so no need to make it well written, and second: the usual problems with making a decent bad guy for OP Kryptonians.  Both are possible to overcome, I'm just not sure the effort would be made in a meaningful way.

Hopefully the LOTR show does it justice better than the movies did.  I'm also hoping the Expanse is supported and does better on Amazon than it did on SciFi.  It only got about 1/3 to 1/4 the viewers that even the poorly written CW shows get.  SciFi is arguably less accessible, however, so hard to compare.

Starforge wrote:

shadar wrote:
Hard to say whether the loss of audience is due to excessive pandering (which clearly got way out of hand) or just really bad storytelling. Are there other shows with terrible, awful storytelling that have large and growing audiences?

But like you, I'm outside the demographic for the show. I just wanted to see a decent exploration of a Kryptonian living among humans and all the challenges and opportunities that presents. And some special effects that are beyond what fan movies can produce. Also a chance to see Kara Zor El shine as a strong character given I've been very fond of her (potential) for many decades. 

Melissa's portrayal of Kara isn't my idea of Kara, although it started off promising in Season 1.. I think some of that comes from the "it's just a silly comicbook character" mentality, which says the storytelliing can be allowed to suck. And let's face it, many (most) of the Kara comics sucked too. She's never been taken very seriously. I've been hoping to see that change in the comics since the 60's, and other than a few bright spots here or there, it hasn't. The Supergirl show is not one of the bright spots, but it could have been.

I remain waiting eagerly for a truly good portrayal of Ms. Zor El. Given this show's poor audience, I don't think they'll try a feature movie about her. But given that I'm a Browncoat (Firefly fan), I'm a sucker for lost causes and great characters and good stories. I'll never give up hoping.  

For now, Expanse keeps me fed. Not as good as the books, but still very good. And with Amazon's upcoming TV series focused on LOTR (my REAL love), I remain hopeful of good TV coming our way. 

Shadar

You and I seem to have similar tastes.  From Firefly to LOTR to, well, here. 

I can live with some bad writing, it's the pandering that makes me tune out.  I also think you hit on something when you said it's viewed as a 'silly comic book character.'  Too many of the money people trying to sell these shows I believe have little actual appreciation for them.  We want money - give the kids what they want.  It might explain the over the top leftist lean as well - an attempt to sell a product to a perceived market and not an attempt to make a decent show.  Hard to tell.

A movie could work and work well *IF* you can crush 2 things:  First the notion that it's a kid story so no need to make it well written, and second: the usual problems with making a decent bad guy for OP Kryptonians.  Both are possible to overcome, I'm just not sure the effort would be made in a meaningful way.

Hopefully the LOTR show does it justice better than the movies did.  I'm also hoping the Expanse is supported and does better on Amazon than it did on SciFi.  It only got about 1/3 to 1/4 the viewers that even the poorly written CW shows get.  SciFi is arguably less accessible, however, so hard to compare.

I agree that a good movie could be made about Kara, but it would take excellent writing and an edge to the story that wouldn't be soap-opera. She could be a good soul living in a gritty universe where even she would have trouble prevailing. But unlikely to get the funding unless people in charge see her as a serious character. 

The question of how well Amazon will do with Expanse and LOTR is truly up in the air. Likely they will do some things differently than the "mainstream" production companies do, but who truly knows. But they spent enough money for LOTR rights (something like a billion USD), so they'll be motivated to do a good job. Not sure how Amazon makes money on their shows. Definitely not the advertiser profile of mainstream broadcast TV.

Shadar