- Posts: 1576
- Thank you received: 503
Worst Female Superhero Movies
14 Oct 2013 03:52 - 14 Oct 2013 03:54 #33499
by castor
Worst Female Superhero Movies was created by castor
Saw this:
Its a video about The Worst (And Least Awful) Female Superhero Movies According To Nostalgia Chick
www.themarysue.com/female-superheroes-nostalgia-chick/
Entertaining video, which makes some salient and fun points. Like the 'strong indipendent woman' jingle. I agree with a lot of it-though i think maybe it gives Tank Girl a little more credit then it deserves(it overplays its idea much), and as i have said i really kind of like SuperGirl.
And Maybe Elektra is a petty to look at and an okay Martial Arts movie if the plot is deadly dull.
But Catwoman & Barb Wire. Spot on!
So yeah why isn't there a Wonder Woman movie.
Castor
Its a video about The Worst (And Least Awful) Female Superhero Movies According To Nostalgia Chick
www.themarysue.com/female-superheroes-nostalgia-chick/
Entertaining video, which makes some salient and fun points. Like the 'strong indipendent woman' jingle. I agree with a lot of it-though i think maybe it gives Tank Girl a little more credit then it deserves(it overplays its idea much), and as i have said i really kind of like SuperGirl.
And Maybe Elektra is a petty to look at and an okay Martial Arts movie if the plot is deadly dull.
But Catwoman & Barb Wire. Spot on!
So yeah why isn't there a Wonder Woman movie.
Castor
Last edit: 14 Oct 2013 03:54 by castor.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- castor
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
14 Oct 2013 15:22 #33508
by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Worst Female Superhero Movies
I think that Nostalgia Chick nail one of the key points about superheroines: 99% of the people involved tend to make the equation "female empowerment = man hating", which is the worst kind of b******t.
I haven't watched Tank Girl, so I can't comment on that one, but this is very much the underlining theme of Barbwire, Catwoman (which originally planned final was actaully downplaing this aspect) and Elektra. Supergirl is the exception but, as noted in the video, is a movie that too often seem to be unure of where the story is going.
In my opinion many executive and directors should look for inspiration on how to play a good female lead outside of the real of past superhero productions and into other kind of movies. Case in point for me: Hellen Ripley from Alien.
Overall I thik that Ripley is one of the best characters Hollywood ever created as far as female empowerment goes. She shows brains and guts aplenty, is entitled to make operative decisions over the course of the story and she generally is considered on par with her male colleagues. Also she show a great combination of ferocity and motherly instinct in Aliens.
I haven't watched Tank Girl, so I can't comment on that one, but this is very much the underlining theme of Barbwire, Catwoman (which originally planned final was actaully downplaing this aspect) and Elektra. Supergirl is the exception but, as noted in the video, is a movie that too often seem to be unure of where the story is going.
In my opinion many executive and directors should look for inspiration on how to play a good female lead outside of the real of past superhero productions and into other kind of movies. Case in point for me: Hellen Ripley from Alien.
Overall I thik that Ripley is one of the best characters Hollywood ever created as far as female empowerment goes. She shows brains and guts aplenty, is entitled to make operative decisions over the course of the story and she generally is considered on par with her male colleagues. Also she show a great combination of ferocity and motherly instinct in Aliens.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jnw550
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Woodclaw
-
- Offline
- Administrator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 3604
- Thank you received: 1991
14 Oct 2013 19:45 - 30 Nov 2013 18:57 #33516
by castor
I will disagree with you in the sense that i am very sure that the producers of thes movies saw Ripley and lets make that. All of these character it think are in someway have "Aliens" in there DNA.
The problem is that they get it wrong.
The third act of aliens is her mowing down hundred of aliens with a machine gun, and then getting in a hand to hand battle with an alien queen(well exo skelten but the same thing).
This plays a lot like Rambo 2 which came out two years before- and in this scenes she acts like them. Shes a female rambo-see Elektra, Barb Wire, Underworld movies, Resident Evil.
However for most of the movie Ripley is just remarkably human. She is competent yes, but not a soldier. She makes actual jokes, and seems to actually laugh. She attempts a bit to connect to other people. She Seems to like Paul Riser for the first 3rd of the movie and he is obviously the villian. Yes she doesn't like Bishop but shes not quipy.
Yet what makes her an interesting action heroine is not that she changes and builds into an incredible badass-its that eveyone else fails to live up to there badass reputation. She has action heroine thrust upon her-and she lives up to it. she has no doubt, no concern-she just does it.
And in the last scene shes tender agian to newt bishop and the other guys. And this isn't really a transition. Yes shes grown, but its still her.
The copies have none of this they start with rambo and stay there. That or they have her melt a bit by the love of a good man in the second act. Neither really works cause full rambo isn't very human-just a cardboard character with in this case boobs instead of pecs. Even rambo movies tend to emphasize hes fucked up.
As i said Elektra intresting movie to look at. Underworld-GREAT movie to look at. but well...nothing really other then that.
Castor
.
Replied by castor on topic Worst Female Superhero Movies
Anon wrote: I think that Nostalgia Chick nail one of the key points about superheroines: 99% of the people involved tend to make the equation "female empowerment = man hating", which is the worst kind of b******t.
In my opinion many executive and directors should look for inspiration on how to play a good female lead outside of the real of past superhero productions and into other kind of movies. Case in point for me: Hellen Ripley from Alien.
Overall I thik that Ripley is one of the best characters Hollywood ever created as far as female empowerment goes. She shows brains and guts aplenty, is entitled to make operative decisions over the course of the story and she generally is considered on par with her male colleagues. Also she show a great combination of ferocity and motherly instinct in Aliens.
I will disagree with you in the sense that i am very sure that the producers of thes movies saw Ripley and lets make that. All of these character it think are in someway have "Aliens" in there DNA.
The problem is that they get it wrong.
The third act of aliens is her mowing down hundred of aliens with a machine gun, and then getting in a hand to hand battle with an alien queen(well exo skelten but the same thing).
This plays a lot like Rambo 2 which came out two years before- and in this scenes she acts like them. Shes a female rambo-see Elektra, Barb Wire, Underworld movies, Resident Evil.
However for most of the movie Ripley is just remarkably human. She is competent yes, but not a soldier. She makes actual jokes, and seems to actually laugh. She attempts a bit to connect to other people. She Seems to like Paul Riser for the first 3rd of the movie and he is obviously the villian. Yes she doesn't like Bishop but shes not quipy.
Yet what makes her an interesting action heroine is not that she changes and builds into an incredible badass-its that eveyone else fails to live up to there badass reputation. She has action heroine thrust upon her-and she lives up to it. she has no doubt, no concern-she just does it.
And in the last scene shes tender agian to newt bishop and the other guys. And this isn't really a transition. Yes shes grown, but its still her.
The copies have none of this they start with rambo and stay there. That or they have her melt a bit by the love of a good man in the second act. Neither really works cause full rambo isn't very human-just a cardboard character with in this case boobs instead of pecs. Even rambo movies tend to emphasize hes fucked up.
As i said Elektra intresting movie to look at. Underworld-GREAT movie to look at. but well...nothing really other then that.
Castor
.
Last edit: 30 Nov 2013 18:57 by castor.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- castor
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1576
- Thank you received: 503
14 Oct 2013 21:47 #33519
by jimbob
Replied by jimbob on topic Worst Female Superhero Movies
Thing with Ripley was she was created to be a gender neutral role. Hence why she's rarely refered to by her first name. The script was written so that any gender could play the part and her female first name and some other lines was added after Weaver was cast because she gave the best audition. That's why she's mostly acting like a male character most of the time.
It would probably be different with a part specifically written for a woman from the start.
It would probably be different with a part specifically written for a woman from the start.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimbob
-
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 163
- Thank you received: 40
14 Oct 2013 22:10 #33520
by Woodclaw
Again thanks to Castor for putting into written form something that was in my head, but I couldn't properly express.
This references to Ripley as an evolving character made me think: in the eye of the general public superheroes are pretty well defined figures.
Each one has its own set of traits that define him or her, usually connected to the mask, but they are rarely perceived as evolving characters. While this vision has more than a grain of truth in it, it's also what makes superhero flicks so difficult to produce. Reducing the character to a cardboard cutout with a cape devalue the whole product, making difficult to sell it. In my mind, one of the things that made the Avengers Phase 1 movies works has been that the production studio had the guts to break this trope with most of the characters. While they didn't remove any of the signaure traits, they explain the hows and whys behind each character so that the human became more important than the superhuman.
The cardinal sin of Barb-Wire and Elektra was to start without any introspection into the character, they just toss the fact that they are badass into your face and go on with the story. Catwoman tries to give a bit of explanation and fails miserably simply because there's almost no correlation between the two halves of the character. If I can empatize Tony Stark choosing to use his technology to take the law into his own hands and try to fix the damage done by that same technology; I can't see the connection between Patience and Catwoman, they're two completly different character, just sharing the same body.
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Worst Female Superhero Movies
castor wrote:
Anon wrote: I think that Nostalgia Chick nail one of the key points about superheroines: 99% of the people involved tend to make the equation "female empowerment = man hating", which is the worst kind of b******t.
In my opinion many executive and directors should look for inspiration on how to play a good female lead outside of the real of past superhero productions and into other kind of movies. Case in point for me: Hellen Ripley from Alien.
Overall I thik that Ripley is one of the best characters Hollywood ever created as far as female empowerment goes. She shows brains and guts aplenty, is entitled to make operative decisions over the course of the story and she generally is considered on par with her male colleagues. Also she show a great combination of ferocity and motherly instinct in Aliens.
I will disagree with you in the sense that i am very sure that the producers of thes movies saw Ripley and lets make that. All of these character it think are in someway have "Aliens" in there DNA.
The problem is that they get it wrong.
The third act of aliens is her mowing down hundred of aliens with a machine gun, and then getting in a hand to hand battle with an alien queen(well exo skelten but the same thing).
This plays a lot like Rambo 11 which came out two years before- and in this scenes she acts like them. Shes a female rambo-see Elektra, Barb Wire, Underworld movies, Resident Evil.
However for most of the movie Ripley is just remarkably human. She is competent yes, but not a soldier. She makes actual jokes, and seems to actually laugh. She attempts a bit to connect to other people. She Seems to like Paul Riser for the first 3rd of the movie and he is obviously the villian. Yes she doesn't like Bishop but shes not quipy.
Yet what makes her an interesting action heroine is not that she changes and builds into an incredible badass-its that eveyone else fails to live up to there badass reputation. She has action heroine thrust upon her-and she lives up to it. she has no doubt, no concern-she just does it.
And in the last scene shes tender agian to newt bishop and the other guys. And this isn't really a transition. Yes shes grown, but its still her.
The copies have none of this they start with rambo and stay there. That or they have her melt a bit by the love of a good man in the second act. Neither really works cause full rambo isn't very human-just a cardboard character with in this case boobs instead of pecs. Even rambo movies tend to emphasize hes fucked up.
As i said Elektra intresting movie to look at. Underworld-GREAT movie to look at. but well...nothing really other then that.
Castor
Again thanks to Castor for putting into written form something that was in my head, but I couldn't properly express.
This references to Ripley as an evolving character made me think: in the eye of the general public superheroes are pretty well defined figures.
Each one has its own set of traits that define him or her, usually connected to the mask, but they are rarely perceived as evolving characters. While this vision has more than a grain of truth in it, it's also what makes superhero flicks so difficult to produce. Reducing the character to a cardboard cutout with a cape devalue the whole product, making difficult to sell it. In my mind, one of the things that made the Avengers Phase 1 movies works has been that the production studio had the guts to break this trope with most of the characters. While they didn't remove any of the signaure traits, they explain the hows and whys behind each character so that the human became more important than the superhuman.
The cardinal sin of Barb-Wire and Elektra was to start without any introspection into the character, they just toss the fact that they are badass into your face and go on with the story. Catwoman tries to give a bit of explanation and fails miserably simply because there's almost no correlation between the two halves of the character. If I can empatize Tony Stark choosing to use his technology to take the law into his own hands and try to fix the damage done by that same technology; I can't see the connection between Patience and Catwoman, they're two completly different character, just sharing the same body.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Woodclaw
-
- Offline
- Administrator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 3604
- Thank you received: 1991
15 Oct 2013 05:24 #33527
by castor
Thats an important point-which is what i sometimes tell people who make movies heres. In superhero movies sometimes strangely what the least important stuff is the costumes, and the special effects. Most superhero movies these days have something like 22 movies of stuff in costume.Whats important is getting the characters-not just the heros but the villians as well(one of the things i thought nostalgia chick brought up well for electra-the villians could be from Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. These are five movies none of which has a decent villian in it).
The side characters-they all have to be kind of believable, and interesting. Which is at one level hard, and at the other level kind of easy.
Which is why the female superhero superhero stuff is kind of frustrating. Becuse you can do that. A realistic female protagonist, is in someways easier then writing a man.Don't make her strong indipendent woman(snap snap) but just a person. Find a way to keep her human and it becomes more fantastic when she lifts people by the throats, because its a journey.
And i don't want to sound like Ed Wood-but if you gave me two of project superwoman videos of footage, you could probabbly make a pretty good movie around it.
What male audiences won't see it? I have read that most people who go to theaters by a wide margin for every genre are women.
Replied by castor on topic Worst Female Superhero Movies
Anon wrote:
This references to Ripley as an evolving character made me think: in the eye of the general public superheroes are pretty well defined figures.
Each one has its own set of traits that define him or her, usually connected to the mask, but they are rarely perceived as evolving characters. While this vision has more than a grain of truth in it, it's also what makes superhero flicks so difficult to produce. Reducing the character to a cardboard cutout with a cape devalue the whole product, making difficult to sell it. In my mind, one of the things that made the Avengers Phase 1 movies works has been that the production studio had the guts to break this trope with most of the characters. While they didn't remove any of the signaure traits, they explain the hows and whys behind each character so that the human became more important than the superhuman.
.
Thats an important point-which is what i sometimes tell people who make movies heres. In superhero movies sometimes strangely what the least important stuff is the costumes, and the special effects. Most superhero movies these days have something like 22 movies of stuff in costume.Whats important is getting the characters-not just the heros but the villians as well(one of the things i thought nostalgia chick brought up well for electra-the villians could be from Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. These are five movies none of which has a decent villian in it).
The side characters-they all have to be kind of believable, and interesting. Which is at one level hard, and at the other level kind of easy.
Which is why the female superhero superhero stuff is kind of frustrating. Becuse you can do that. A realistic female protagonist, is in someways easier then writing a man.Don't make her strong indipendent woman(snap snap) but just a person. Find a way to keep her human and it becomes more fantastic when she lifts people by the throats, because its a journey.
And i don't want to sound like Ed Wood-but if you gave me two of project superwoman videos of footage, you could probabbly make a pretty good movie around it.
What male audiences won't see it? I have read that most people who go to theaters by a wide margin for every genre are women.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- castor
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1576
- Thank you received: 503
Time to create page: 0.056 seconds