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Wonder Woman in Batman v Superman
IMO, her accent sounds right. Her look is right. And that patented Zack Snyder superhero leap (with a war cry thrown in) into battle is something to behold. Can't wait to see this movie next month.
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jdrock24 wrote: Gal meets a fellow superheroine on the Ellen show:
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Humorously, both of whom violate the first rule of superheroines... big boobs.
I mean, the trope is that whenever someone becomes (or is) super, bigger boobs are required. Remember the meteor/transformation scene in My Super Ex-Girlfriend? Played perfectly. Not to mention every comic book ever written that featured a female super. First thing to grow are the boobs.
But here we are, well into the 21st century, and the trope is dead, at least on screen. Maybe it should have died long ago, but I can't escape being a product of the 20th century.
We got a too-cute Supergirl and a boobless Wonder Woman. But... the big BUT... we have them both on screen. A favorite trope might be dead, but I'll take having them on screen over not having them on screen.
And when do we ever get EXACTLY what we want unless we write it ourselves. Pure imagination to words has no limits, but everything else does.
But then, this century WILL eventually offer 'computer animation' that's indistinguishable from live action. Maybe not in ten years, but certainly in twenty. When that happens, both the big and small screens will also be able to offer an unconstrained and perfect pathway from imagination to image. Hope I live long enough to see it.
What will directors and producers do with unlimited creative power? And can the viewing public ween themselves from its fascination with actors and just focus on the creative product?
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- shadar
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The same could be said of men in comics. Giant muscles are the male equivalent of "big boobs". In some of Simon Beasley's depictions of Batman, I swear I've seen biceps-on-biceps-on-biceps lol
Peace.
/K
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This is like a Monkey's Paw wish/ curse
After all these decades of waiting, we the faithful finally get Superheroines.
But they are skinny.
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- Markiehoe
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shadar wrote:
jdrock24 wrote: Gal meets a fellow superheroine on the Ellen show:
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Humorously, both of whom violate the first rule of superheroines... big boobs.
I mean, the trope is that whenever someone becomes (or is) super, bigger boobs are required. Remember the meteor/transformation scene in My Super Ex-Girlfriend? Played perfectly. Not to mention every comic book ever written that featured a female super. First thing to grow are the boobs.
But here we are, well into the 21st century, and the trope is dead, at least on screen. Maybe it should have died long ago, but I can't escape being a product of the 20th century.
We got a too-cute Supergirl and a boobless Wonder Woman. But... the big BUT... we have them both on screen. A favorite trope might be dead, but I'll take having them on screen over not having them on screen.
I don't think that the trope is dead, I think that some (many?) simply outgrew it. Like any trope it's a tool and it has to be used in the appropriate time and place, simply slapping it all across the board simply doesn't cut it. Plus, we have to contend with the fact that some people tend to be very touchy about the oversexualization of superwomen (please let's not open the can of worms that his the oversexualization of supermen, okay).
If I have to look at the idea from a too mature point of view I'd say that the growing breasts can be seen as the manifest sign of both maternity and sexuality. Think about it for a minute, a superhuman is supposed to represent a human being empowered and perfected in many ways -- sexuals included -- so it stand to reason that all the visible attributes are somewhat enhanced, yet as far as breasts goes there's another element. Presperous breasts are the visible sign of maternity and feeding, which is ingrained into our brains -- both culturally and biologically, to a point -- to be the most intimate contact two human can ever experience outside of sex and the most tender as well. So we got two opposite elements in one go, both linked to intimacy.
Yet, intimacy somehow relates to vulnerability, because one has to drop one's inner defenses and trust the partner to get something out the experience that it's more than the mechanical pleasure of the act, but here's the kicker: superwomen aren't vulnerable ... well, not as a human is. This is, for me, the reasoning behind the bullets and breasts trope we often write about, seeing these visible symbols of intimacy and maternity defying death and injury is somewhat awe inspiring.
As much as some authors might have exagirated her profile, I usually don't associate Supergirl with maternity, I tend to associate her character with the trouble to growing and the difficulty to fit. Kara is usually a teenager or a young woman, she's in that age when you have spread your wings and leave the nest for good. It's an age when all tend to feel a bit lost and need to change, and she is much more lost than many of us can ever be.
As for Wonder Woman ... she's tricky and most depends on which side of her character they wish to focus on. If, as I suspect, they're going for a rather dominating warrior woman, I don't think that the decision to ignore the "most common superpower" trope is a worng one.
shadar wrote: But then, this century WILL eventually offer 'computer animation' that's indistinguishable from live action. Maybe not in ten years, but certainly in twenty. When that happens, both the big and small screens will also be able to offer an unconstrained and perfect pathway from imagination to image. Hope I live long enough to see it.
What will directors and producers do with unlimited creative power? And can the viewing public ween themselves from its fascination with actors and just focus on the creative product?
To be honest I kind of dread that moment. So far I noticed that many directors when given the almost unlimited freedom provided by computer animation tend to go fully overboard and forget that a movie should be primarily about telling a story and spectacular visuals should be a support to that, not the main focus. Of course movies are a visual medium and they can tell a story purely through images -- George Miller tend to do that, especially with "Road Warrior" and "Fury Road" -- but still it's the story that drives the movie, not the imagery.
Unconstrained freedom of imagining is doorway that let out both the good and the bad at the same time and, as such, can provide both magnificent and terrible results. In a purely digital production, I believe, the role of the executive producer would become even more crucial to focus and trim the artistic vision of the director, otherwise we will get a number of Star Wars prequels kind of movie: visually gorgeous, but totally unfocused on the narrative and littered with scenes that would have been much better with a simpler and neater look.
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- Woodclaw
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In the episode one of the Lab Techs was creating a board game based on the CSI lab and the people that work there.
He is infatuated with one woman that works with him in the lab..
He is attracted to her because she is clumsy and busty.
Her character in the game is very clumsy and very busty.
The woman was not to happy when she saw the prototype figure for the game.
I tend to believe when creating fiction and fantasy stories that character traits and flaws are pushed to the extreme for effect.
Good---Super Good
Evil---Super Evil
Sexy---Super Sexy
and so on.
In our Politically Correct world we live in--- fiction becomes Super PC
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- Markiehoe
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In short, her action scenes were epic and I'm more hyped for the Wonder Woman movie now.
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steelknight3000 wrote: What kind of super strength action can we expect from that movie?
Not sure how "spoilery" I should get here. I guess I'll just use tags...
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- jdrock24
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With most critics saying Wonder Woman is the only bright spot in the entire movie.
It's going to have a huge first weekend.
www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice/
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Markiehoe wrote: As of right now the Rotten Tomatoes score for B v S is 36% Rotten with 98% of the movie going population wanting to see it.
With most critics saying Wonder Woman is the only bright spot in the entire movie.
It's going to have a huge first weekend.
www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice/
Does anyone really care what critics have to say anymore? The only time I even look at what a movie's RT score is if I'm kind of on the fence about seeing it and I happen to have a free night to actually go see said movie. Two very rare occurrences nowadays so I haven't gone to RT in years.
Besides, I could have told you a year ago that BM v SM would get a mixed reception from critics. For one, they hate Zack Snyder. They always have. It is apparently the "kewl" thing to do among that group of people. For two, this movie was made for comic book fans so a lot of scenes go over the heads of your average movie goer. I mean, I couldn't tell you how many times, as I was watching the movie, saying to myself: "Wow! That's right out of (insert name of graphic novel here)!"
The only negative thing I can really say about the movie is that it did drag a little in the beginning. But once it picks up, it rrreeeaaalllyyyy picks up.
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Just need to keep saying it... over and over. Some day I'll believe it.
Shadar
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Wonder Woman IS the bright spot in this movie, and I repeat Shadar's mantra myself. I'd LOVE her to have some more muscle, but Godot carries herself well, and handles her fight scenes. She does a GREAT job. There is one scene where she gets knocked down by Doomsday and she rolls up and grins. It's perfect. She really didn't speak too much in the movie though. I was probably looking at her too much to really judge her acting ...
And to no surprise, Jermey Irons is wonderful as Alfred. Affleck does the job he was given very well (no reason for haters). I can't figure if it's poor direction, poor editing choices, poor choices on what to put in the movie (close to editing, but more of the thread they choose), or Eisenberg's acting. But Lex is the weakest link in the movie and he's all over the place and jumbled, and ends up a bit too crazy-town in some scenes.
This is like 2-3 movies mashed into one. Many dream sequences, a non-dream dream sequence (that's actually weakened by the others), a batman origin story that at least was during the opening credits (and I'll admit actually was slightly relevant in the end of the movie), a few plots by lex, the wonder woman plot, the thread of Batman vs Superman, and the setup for other JLA movies, and it sort of felt like return of the king at the end with many endings (but no post credits scene as Synder is too cool for that). And splashes of Irons' Alfred fussing around which I found just too wonderful to do more than grin at.
That's why it's editing and plot choices that could have left Eisenberg's performance weak .. maybe some relevant things were cut ... or never actually FILMED. I'm not sure I care enough to watch it again (again) to try to figure out which it is. I don't hate him as an actor, so that's not it.
That said I enjoyed myself, and I didn't really like Man of Steel (though I keep saying I need to see it again).
BUT, I saw it opening night and there were a lot of people that my geek-sense said were geeks and nerds ... I mean I am one myself so ... anyway, people were really quiet after the movie, and I overheard multiple groups of them knocking the movie and being unhappy. So if this was made for the comic book geeks ... they might not be liking it.
I liked it. But I also saw it alone, and just let myself experience it, though I had to FORCE myself into the movie, after going "really" to the yet another retelling of the Wayne's getting killed followed by a two minute jeep commercial before the movie started ... But I'll note that part of my problem ... I NEVER have to force myself into a movie ... is because Man of Steel is pretty much the only movie that completely knocked me out of the movie and made me AWARE that was sitting in this room watching funny pictures on a screen. I was really self-conscious about that going in. It was a bit of "don't think of an elephant!" and a bit of what I just said. "really? Again?"
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Thought about it for a bit.
And I am going to call the shot with "the editing in this movie was probably the problem." That said, I'm not really a movie/film geek, so take that with a "he doesn't know boo". Still, feel sorta right.
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However, I will disagree with you on Luthor. I thought he was very well played. I didn't need to be told he was a megalomaniac to know he was a megalomaniac and couldn't stand someone having more power than him. The Senate hearing scene and the rooftop scene brought his evilness home for me.
I definitely have to see it again to catch some of the things I might have missed. This time I'm taking the wife and kids although I'm a bit concerned if the kids (ages 7 and 10) will be able to sit through it...
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But its a movie with good qualities-it does have thoughts about responsiblty what you can and can't do, living as an outsider. It has a lot of good suporting performances Faora is well done, the special effects are great, and at times it is quite a buietifl lyrical movie that feels like the world is at stake by showing it. Some of its suposed flaws i think are strengths-i do think the Zod fight made sence and i like how they made a momment out of his death something a lot of superhero movies(including a lot of marvel movies) really gloss over. So as i have gone..i have kinda softened on it. I think i do kinda like it now.
However one big problem remains storywise. Krypton. The movies opening act on Krypton is bueatiful, dynamic and some of the best special effects in movies. It tells it story well and creates compelling factions and ideas... and is superflucious to plot. For the story the rest of the movie tells, it goes agianst it. The movies stakes are dependent on Superman at least for a minute consider Zod as someone he can work with to join as he is so alienated from it...and without that momment the movie fails.
Cut to B vs S...which is in a lot of ways a better movie. Synder or his writers did listen to the complaints and made them part of the story. You get a compelling movie that never for a second bored me. and after watching the trailers, still suprised me. The action was always followable, the htird act made sence as did every thing else, and while i do hear complaints of some of the relationships where a little hard to follow(We got a good sence of why Batman hated superman-not a perfect sence of why Superman hated batman) i think it generally flowed well. i think i would have liked a momment early on where Superman was an unambious hero, but i can live with it.
The performances where good. Cavil had grown into the role abit, Laurence Fishbourne had more to do, and Amy Adams if at times she was lit a little unflatering(one thing the movie does not improve on is overall cinemtography which was at times hit) did seem very human in a way that you can see the rommance. Ben Affleck was a good a batman as we have seen, and i liked how kinda of played Bruce Wayne as more or less the same guy just a little less focus. Jermey irons was a great Alfred and liked his areobic with at all points that didn't just seem batting of Affleck,. Holly Hunter had a good performance in a small part that went places that well you wouldn't expect and i thought Jesse Eisenberg was a great Lex luthor, maybe the best in the movies so far, a perfect blend of Smarm Millenial millionare, and Evil Genuis. .
And there are ideas in ths movie. at the risk of making a political comment a facebook friend pointed out "This is a movie about a Billionare getting really mad at an illegal immagrant"....and while he thought it was a joke, i do think that thought is intentional, though after spending 2 years talking about this on the forrum, the specifics not so much. And that is something. This more then the last is about facing the consiquences of actions and dealing with ones moral compass..and it does think about it..and that if nothing else gives the movie a good pass for me.
But well to the title of the thread-remember how i mentioned Krpyton.
Gal Gadot i think was great as Wonder Woman- a perfect blend of mystery and humanity, a godess who you could feel sympathy for., and liked how she played of wayne-i like the subtle hint of playful of it . her battle at the end was well done and well acted. And yeah you know what after probabbly a hundred posts here about how skinny she looked or any of that..i thought she looked great. it did work. She was maybe the best part of the movie.
...that probabbly shouldn't have been in it
. Yeah all the justice leauge stuff, especially towards the endless ends kinda took a couple of points of the movie for me. Like the scene in the desert, and the intro of the flash.. but Aquaman was in it for like 10 seconds which was 5 seconds to long. Darksied at the end felt a cameo for something, becuse it wasn't * this* story. This was the story of Batman and superman. And everything beyond felt sequal bait or wonder woman bait..and while i am curious to see those movies...but cluttered it. Like TTOT said it did aid an extra beat that kinda hurt it as it went forward.
But overall i do like it, and i am curious. Honestly for the first time ever i watched the trailer for Civil war before this movie-and that odesn't look nearly a good as movie as this one. i liked it. as mentioned in the spoiler some of it takes it away from Great to Very good..but thats where i am on this.
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- castor
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castor wrote: When i first saw Man of Steel i didn't really like it. Its to long by probabbly a half, Henry Cavil is a good actor(i do recomend Man from UNCLE where hes great) but he seems lost at times,the third act battle feels a bit like an incoherent mess at times...
But its a movie with good qualities-it does have thoughts about responsiblty what you can and can't do, living as an outsider. It has a lot of good suporting performances Faora is well done, the special effects are great, and at times it is quite a buietifl lyrical movie that feels like the world is at stake by showing it. Some of its suposed flaws i think are strengths-i do think the Zod fight made sence and i like how they made a momment out of his death something a lot of superhero movies(including a lot of marvel movies) really gloss over. So as i have gone..i have kinda softened on it. I think i do kinda like it now.
However one big problem remains storywise. Krypton. The movies opening act on Krypton is bueatiful, dynamic and some of the best special effects in movies. It tells it story well and creates compelling factions and ideas... and is superflucious to plot. For the story the rest of the movie tells, it goes agianst it. The movies stakes are dependent on Superman at least for a minute consider Zod as someone he can work with to join as he is so alienated from it...and without that momment the movie fails.
Cut to B vs S...which is in a lot of ways a better movie. Synder or his writers did listen to the complaints and made them part of the story. You get a compelling movie that never for a second bored me. and after watching the trailers, still suprised me. The action was always followable, the htird act made sence as did every thing else, and while i do hear complaints of some of the relationships where a little hard to follow(We got a good sence of why Batman hated superman-not a perfect sence of why Superman hated batman) i think it generally flowed well. i think i would have liked a momment early on where Superman was an unambious hero, but i can live with it.
The performances where good. Cavil had grown into the role abit, Laurence Fishbourne had more to do, and Amy Adams if at times she was lit a little unflatering(one thing the movie does not improve on is overall cinemtography which was at times hit) did seem very human in a way that you can see the rommance. Ben Affleck was a good a batman as we have seen, and i liked how kinda of played Bruce Wayne as more or less the same guy just a little less focus. Jermey irons was a great Alfred and liked his areobic with at all points that didn't just seem batting of Affleck,. Holly Hunter had a good performance in a small part that went places that well you wouldn't expect and i thought Jesse Eisenberg was a great Lex luthor, maybe the best in the movies so far, a perfect blend of Smarm Millenial millionare, and Evil Genuis. .
And there are ideas in ths movie. at the risk of making a political comment a facebook friend pointed out "This is a movie about a Billionare getting really mad at an illegal immagrant"....and while he thought it was a joke, i do think that thought is intentional, though after spending 2 years talking about this on the forrum, the specifics not so much. And that is something. This more then the last is about facing the consiquences of actions and dealing with ones moral compass..and it does think about it..and that if nothing else gives the movie a good pass for me.
But well to the title of the thread-remember how i mentioned Krpyton.
Warning: Spoiler!
Gal Gadot i think was great as Wonder Woman- a perfect blend of mystery and humanity, a godess who you could feel sympathy for., and liked how she played of wayne-i like the subtle hint of playful of it . her battle at the end was well done and well acted. And yeah you know what after probabbly a hundred posts here about how skinny she looked or any of that..i thought she looked great. it did work. She was maybe the best part of the movie.
...that probabbly shouldn't have been in it
. Yeah all the justice leauge stuff, especially towards the endless ends kinda took a couple of points of the movie for me. Like the scene in the desert, and the intro of the flash.. but Aquaman was in it for like 10 seconds which was 5 seconds to long. Darksied at the end felt a cameo for something, becuse it wasn't * this* story. This was the story of Batman and superman. And everything beyond felt sequal bait or wonder woman bait..and while i am curious to see those movies...but cluttered it. Like TTOT said it did aid an extra beat that kinda hurt it as it went forward.
But overall i do like it, and i am curious. Honestly for the first time ever i watched the trailer for Civil war before this movie-and that odesn't look nearly a good as movie as this one. i liked it. as mentioned in the spoiler some of it takes it away from Great to Very good..but thats where i am on this.
Thanks for the well thought out review. I haven't seen B vs S yet, but based on your comments on Man of Steel (which resonate with me) and using that as a basis for judging your comments on B vs S, I'm looking forward to see it.
I also try to avoid getting hung up on little things and look at the meaning and larger message of a movie. Some movies don't have one (or its superficial), but it sounds like B vs S following MOS in having some substance to the message.
Interesting that the end of the movie seemed tacked on -- basically a prologue for WW and Justice League stories to come? Something a lot meatier than a trailer, but not an integral part of the narrative arc of the rest of the movie.
I suppose I'm going to have to take the hour or so trek in toward Seattle area to see it in a decent theater. The crappy theater in my rural area is vastly inferior to my own home theater.
I know this is a lot of personal preference, but is the 3D version worth the distractions? In a rare few movies, the 3D puts me in it, but in other movies it seems superfluous and just makes me dizzy. How well was B vs S done re: 3D?
Shadar
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- shadar
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They *Kinda* integrate it into the story. Wonder Woman appears fairly early on in the movie, but for about 45-minutes to an hour shes disapears. Problem isn't the word but one of the movies issues is that we never know what she is actually up to in the movie. Such that when she appears again towards the end of the second act...the movie never establishes like where in the world she actually is.
. We do see bits of other characters...that to a certain extent feel like things from trailers for other movies(including a fairly long bit of cyborg), and there is one fairly long sequence that i don't want to spoil that refrences them..
.but these kinda feel extranious to the plot, which as mentioned about Batman and Superman. After the movies climax you get a fairly long time about talking about finding the others and forming some kind of organization to fight the devil who is coming to earth and...
(yeah i know Thanos was made to be a copy of Darksied so he is orginally DC...but that doesn't mean both modern superhero movies should go to the same well)
As for 3D....you know honestly i went to the theater thats a little further away for me(granted i live in LA where there is a lot of theaters) to see it in 2D. Didn't want to bother with that. The movie has a lot of Backlighting and lightbloom which is kinda distracting i think in 3D.
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