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WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

05 Jun 2017 00:25 #54540 by AuGoose
Some upbeat numbers coming in as the weekend plays out.

www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4298&p=.htm

Interesting the ground to be claimed with this being the highest opening weekend rake for a female director ever (evidently by an enormous margin), while being the 16th largest opening for comic movies in general. Hooray for putting some jacks under the glass ceiling and raising it up a few floors - and welcome to the middle of the pack. Its still behind all other DCEU movies, but I'm betting it tapers off WAY more gently than BvS did ;).

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05 Jun 2017 22:05 - 06 Jun 2017 00:29 #54556 by Woodclaw
Okay, I saw the movie last night and I took my customary 24 hours before passing judgement.

First of all let me get the general thoughts out of the way.
Is it a good movie worth watching? Yes.
Did I enjoy it? Yes.
Is it the new gold standard for superhero movies? No, at least not for me.

If I look back at the various DCEU movies, I think that Wonder Woman is the one I enjoyed the most -- although Man of Steel grown on me over time -- and, amazingly enough some of the things I found really problematic in the previous movies I didn't mind here.
First of all I think that the casting was almost spot on. Gal Gadot might not be the greatest actress in the world and some people said that she doesn't play the role, but rather act it. I'm inclined to say that her performance had some weak moments, but she really sold the idea of a character that doesn't take shit from anyone (save perhaps her mother) and who really believe in the inner good of others (who is going to sing for us is really a great line moment). Chris Pine provides a very good counterpoint by taking, I believe, a page out of his Captain Kirk book, but playing it in a more serious and focused way. His Steve Trevor is a really great spy, soldier and pilot, while he clearly feels somewhat inadequate when close to Diana he doesn't let that stop him and actually push him to be better. This is a really good chemistry and by the end of the second act (i.e. the liberation of the village) I could totally see the feelings between the two characters. The supporting cast of Trevor's team was a bit too much into the character actors real, but each one provided at least one poignant moment for Diana so I'm going to say that they worked. Etta Candy is the one character I'm sad it was so underused, Lucy Davis was really funny by being the one normal character among a demigoddess, a superspy and a bunch of high-level generals and politicians and providing quippy remarks. As far as the villains goes Danny Huston owned his role, in spite of playing General Luddendorf a bit too much as a giant sadistic ham, he really had the presence to sell the role. Elena Anaya had the short straw playing Doctor Poison, a character who pretty much lacked half of her face (kudos to the prostethic department for the great work) and yet she managed to make that mask quite expressive. On to the one character I really didn't enjoy: Ares as played by David Thewlis. As long as he was playing him as a manipulator Thewlis was perfect, he delivered his lines with such a glacial calm that he made a great counterpart to the rolling ball of emotions that was Diana until late in third act, but as soon as he armors up ... god, he was terrible and pushed himself way too hard in shouting those lines without rhyme or reason (more on Ares later).
The other thing that I really liked was photography. While nothing was incredibly innovative and the close combat scenes looked a bit too much like 300 or any other action movie this side of the matrix, everyhting was done in a very good way and even the dreaded de-saturation filter found its place by hihglighting the difference between the colorful Themiscyra and the bleak western front.

Onward to the meat of the game: the story. As far as I'm concerned Wonder Woman has a good first act, a great second act and terribly weak third act.
The first third of the movie with Themiscyra and London had some really great moments. First of all I liked the fact that Diana wasn't born powerful, but she had to work her ass out to know how to handle her strength, this is something that really bugged me in many comics book movie (especially in First Avenger) and it's nice that they added it here with a character that is often perceived as being just good because reasons. The arrival of Trevor on the island and the following interactions were all pretty damn good and give a groundwork of the characters: Trevor looks tough and Diana, in spite of all her powers, is refreshingly naive. The follow-up in London is more of the same but in reverse: Diana is the outside and Trevor the expert. It's very much a like a buddy cop dynamic and it works really well.
Act two on the front is just that good. It's mostly action, but the pacing makes it really perfect there's no rush to get to the meat and every step along the way show the horror of the war and the relief, albeit temporary, that even a single moment of peace can bring. The crossing of no man's land is downright perfect and it shouldn't surprise anyone who knows my stories why I liked it so very much. For me the sequence that start in the trenches and end up with the party in the village is the highest point of the movie.
Act three, I'm sorry to say but it doesn't work. Up to the death of General Luddendorf I was totally on board, albeit I felt that pacing was getting too fast, and I didn't mind he was red herring, but as soon as Ares enters the picture I felt something wasn't working anymore. The final fight was really not something I enjoyed. It's far from the worst final battle I've witnessed (Age of Apocalypse holds the golden turd for the foreseeable future), but there are two things that I hated with passion. First, Ares seem just too eager to shout and shout and shout without doing anything effective. I understand that is goal was getting Diana to join him, rather than killing her, but her just overdid it and became boring to look and listen to. Second, the ending; I get that by now it's a tradition that in superhero movies, opposite to comics, the villain must die at the end of the story but here they should have made an exception. The entire deal with Diana is that she's not meant to have a rogue gallery because her enemies aren't people, but ideas: Ares, as he stated, wasn't the cause of the war, but only its facilitator, so seeing him dying at the end of the movie was kind of underwhelming especially because I can't help but compare it with his final farewell from JLU Hawk & Dove episode.

Ares: I'll be back, and sooner than you think. Wherever there's prejudice, ignorance, inequality, I'll be there.
Diana: And I'll be waiting.


So where is thing going to leave me?
Wonder Woman convinced me to give the DCEU another shot, although I'm not still not 100% on board as I was after Avengers Phase 1 and I do think that it's a good movie, not perfect but absolutely worth the shot.

The Devil in the Details
There's one big issue I have with Wonder Woman that doesn't come from the movie itself, but from it's place within the DCEU. the ending strongly implies that Diana has been superheroing from 1918 until today and I don't think she would have sit out during WW2, so this begs the question: how is it possible that the military all over the world didn't know that a superpowered woman, strong enough to trash a tank, has been around for a century?
Given how eye-.catching Diana I doubt that there was no other proof of her existance aside from that picture, so it seem logical that the military would have tried to create some kind of weapon to get her and, if they did, why they didn't use them against the Kryptonians during Man of Steel?
I know I'm nitpicking at the continuty between two movies that are just lightly tied together, but it really nags me.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2017 00:29 by Woodclaw.
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06 Jun 2017 04:20 #54559 by slim36
ew.com/movies/2017/05/30/wonder-woman-at...n-nation-themyscira/




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Wonder Woman: How real-life athletes united to populate the film's badass Amazon nation

Devan Coggan@devancoggan

Posted on May 30, 2017 at 9:00am EDT

For more on the heroine, get Entertainment Weekly’s The Ultimate Guide to Wonder Woman, featuring the cast and creators of the new film and the character’s long history, on sale now. See the cover below.

As a Dutch supermodel, Victoria’s Secret Angel and trained horsewoman, Doutzen Kroes has had some pretty remarkable experiences throughout her career. But none of them have been quite as memorable as riding down an Italian beach on horseback, wearing full Amazonian armor and pretending to slit a man’s throat with a sword. “The challenge was that I had to ride with one hand and have the sword in the other hand and kill a person at the same time,” she explains, laughing. “Which sounds horrible, but it was so fun to do!”

Kroes was just one of the many accomplished women recruited to play Amazon warriors in Wonder Woman. From an Olympic bobsledder and a heptathlete to a police officer and the former Miss Greece, these real-life Amazons hailed from around the world and helped populate Diana’s home of Themyscira. Some of the Amazons, like Kroes, auditioned, while the filmmakers plucked others from the athletic world — Brooke Ence, an American Crossfit champion, and Madeleine Vall Beijner, a Swedish professional fighter, among them. “I got an e-mail asking if I could do fighting on film,” Beijner recalls. “I said, ‘Well, yes, I can fight, and I think I can fight in a movie. So yes, I’ll do it!’ ”

RELATED: 7 New Photos From Wonder Woman

Months before the cameras started rolling, the women gathered in London for weeks of training. Not only did they go through basic strength training to look properly Amazonian, but they also spent hours each day practicing swordplay, horseback riding and stunt choreography. “The trainers said they wanted us to look like the female version of 300,” Beijner says. For several of the athletes, many of whom compete in individual sports, it was a refreshing change of pace to feel like part of an all-female team. “It really is cool to see this whole training area, and there’s not one male figure in sight,” Ence adds. “It’s just women wrestling other women, kickboxing, doing pull-ups and practicing with spears — just a lot of stuff that in the real world is very male-dominated.”
Clay Enos/Warner Bros.

Kroes plays Venelia, the right hand of Queen Hippolyta, while Beijner and Ence play Egeria and Penthesilea, respectively — two warriors under the command of General Antiope. Many of the women weren’t quite sure what to expect when they got on-set, especially as many of them had never worked on a Hollywood movie before, but they found themselves adapting quickly and bonding with their fellow Amazons. Still, it took a little adjustment. “I’ve been training for 12 years not to show anything, even how hard I get hit,” Beijner says. “They called me RoboCop because when we were training, they were like, ‘You’re supposed to show that it hurts!’ And I was like, ‘No, I don’t get hurt! I’m a fighter!’ ”

Once they all donned their Amazon armor and took to the beach for the big Themysciran battle scenes, Ence says she was surprised by how easy it was to tap into her inner warrior, especially when surrounded by a whole horde of fellow soldiers. “The first day we were on-set with all of our swords and shields, it felt like a different type of power,” she says. “And we looked awesome.” She wasn’t the only one who got swept up by all the swords and stunts: Kroes recalls a day when her young son visited her, and she greeted him in full battle regalia. “If I could just have that face framed as a picture on my wall,” she says. “I think I melted because he has never looked at me like that ever. He was just in full admiration of his mommy as a warrior.”
Clay Enos/Warner Bros.
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06 Jun 2017 12:26 - 06 Jun 2017 12:31 #54561 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

Once they all donned their Amazon armor and took to the beach for the big Themysciran battle scenes, Ence says she was surprised by how easy it was to tap into her inner warrior, especially when surrounded by a whole horde of fellow soldiers. “The first day we were on-set with all of our swords and shields, it felt like a different type of power,” she says. “And we looked awesome.”


Okay, this is right up AuGoose's alley.

Get on it, man! Epic tale of lust and butchery on the set...
Last edit: 06 Jun 2017 12:31 by LustMonster.

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06 Jun 2017 12:53 #54562 by AuGoose
Oh believe me, the sociology underlying that whole article is fascinating to me :). The treatment of Themyscira in the movie was one of the things I was most interested in seeing, and hearing about the actresses' reaction to that environment is really neat. I thought it particularly telling the real trained combatants bringing their practical experience to the process with things like the importance of NOT showing weakness to an enemy. I realize most of them will be bit parts and extras, but it feels like there could be some real nuance to the performances of the Amazonian crowd worth a closer look or even some slo-mo/frame-by-frame for the few scenes they appear in.
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06 Jun 2017 13:10 #54563 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
"We saved a boatload of money on practical effects, but informing the male extras' next-of-kin was not a pleasant task..."

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06 Jun 2017 16:39 #54566 by Woodclaw

LustMonster wrote:

Once they all donned their Amazon armor and took to the beach for the big Themysciran battle scenes, Ence says she was surprised by how easy it was to tap into her inner warrior, especially when surrounded by a whole horde of fellow soldiers. “The first day we were on-set with all of our swords and shields, it felt like a different type of power,” she says. “And we looked awesome.”


Okay, this is right up AuGoose's alley.

Get on it, man! Epic tale of lust and butchery on the set...

AuGoose wrote: Oh believe me, the sociology underlying that whole article is fascinating to me :). The treatment of Themyscira in the movie was one of the things I was most interested in seeing, and hearing about the actresses' reaction to that environment is really neat. I thought it particularly telling the real trained combatants bringing their practical experience to the process with things like the importance of NOT showing weakness to an enemy. I realize most of them will be bit parts and extras, but it feels like there could be some real nuance to the performances of the Amazonian crowd worth a closer look or even some slo-mo/frame-by-frame for the few scenes they appear in.


I left that bit of the movie out of my review on purpose because that scene (aside from a couple of WTF moments) had two very different highlights for me. One is the feeling that, in spite of much over the top action most of the people involved were actually feeling it, the other (and I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, no pun intended AuGoose) is that the disparity of forces wasn't that great. The Amazons won, but left many of their numbers on the field, making clear that even with all their powers millennia of isolation didn't do them any favour when the lead start flying. This was, in my opinion a great reinforcement to the concept that powers aren't just enough by themselves.

LustMonster wrote: "We saved a boatload of money on practical effects, but informing the male extras' next-of-kin was not a pleasant task..."


Insurance department on the other hand ... wasn't so happy.
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06 Jun 2017 17:32 #54567 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

Woodclaw wrote:
I left that bit of the movie out of my review on purpose because that scene (aside from a couple of WTF moments) had two very different highlights for me. One is the feeling that, in spite of much over the top action most of the people involved were actually feeling it, the other (and I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, no pun intended AuGoose) is that the disparity of forces wasn't that great. The Amazons won, but left many of their numbers on the field, making clear that even with all their powers millennia of isolation didn't do them any favour when the lead start flying. This was, in my opinion a great reinforcement to the concept that powers aren't just enough by themselves.


Well, with the caveat that the Amazons didn't seem to know what rifles and guns were when the battle started. But, by the same token the Germans saw a bunch of women with bows and swords and thought it was going to be an easy fight. Next time though I think they'd play things a bit safer.

If the Amazons did know about guns, I begin to question their battle tactics but not their bravery. OTH, since they seemed to know languages that were not current when they were hidden away (Modern English), they seemed to at least have some way to say current with culture/language, so WHY didn't they know more?

If you know what a rifle is, you kill as many from the arrow barrage as they hit the beach and then fall back into the woods/rocky array and hit them from concealment until you can lure them into a trap where hand to hadn fighters can leap into the midst of the Germans from surprise.

OTH, there might be an irrational "no attacker on the island" mania going where they felt they HAD to stop the men on the beach.
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06 Jun 2017 17:51 #54568 by shadar

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:
I left that bit of the movie out of my review on purpose because that scene (aside from a couple of WTF moments) had two very different highlights for me. One is the feeling that, in spite of much over the top action most of the people involved were actually feeling it, the other (and I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, no pun intended AuGoose) is that the disparity of forces wasn't that great. The Amazons won, but left many of their numbers on the field, making clear that even with all their powers millennia of isolation didn't do them any favour when the lead start flying. This was, in my opinion a great reinforcement to the concept that powers aren't just enough by themselves.


Well, with the caveat that the Amazons didn't seem to know what rifles and guns were when the battle started. But, by the same token the Germans saw a bunch of women with bows and swords and thought it was going to be an easy fight. Next time though I think they'd play things a bit safer.

If the Amazons did know about guns, I begin to question their battle tactics but not their bravery. OTH, since they seemed to know languages that were not current when they were hidden away (Modern English), they seemed to at least have some way to say current with culture/language, so WHY didn't they know more?

If you know what a rifle is, you kill as many from the arrow barrage as they hit the beach and then fall back into the woods/rocky array and hit them from concealment until you can lure them into a trap where hand to hadn fighters can leap into the midst of the Germans from surprise.

OTH, there might be an irrational "no attacker on the island" mania going where they felt they HAD to stop the men on the beach.


That one aspect caught my eye too (they are perfectly versed in modern English) but have no idea of modern weapons. The first implies an enduring contact with our world, the second implies (as was stated) that they've had no contact for thousands of years. But this is a comic book movie, not a scientific thesis, so I simply chalked it up to the storytelling compromises that always exist. There were many such compromises (small boat sails from near the coast of Turkey but is in London the next day presumably). All things to ignore in a comic book movie.

Characterization is the key, and that was OK. Not great, but OK, and better than usual for DC. Pretty close to Marvel's level. The parts I liked best were Diana's exposure to the world and the kind of life the opening and closing suggests she's created while living among us. Now that is REALLY interesting. What has she been doing these last hundred years? Who are her friends, her lovers, her co-workers, her confidantes? Who does she go out for a beer with on Friday nights? Maybe its just because I'm old, but that stuff always creates interesting questions for me.

If the movie ended after Act 2, I would have been very happy. Act 3 was a typical DC superhero video game-style CGI fest. I'm sure some people liked that act the best, but it was something I've seen too many times already. A Greek god fighting his half-sister should have been interesting as hell, but it was strangely a let down for me.

Interesting that few people have complained (unlike the Murder-verse claims that follow Snyder's Superman) that she has no problem killing people who need killing. In this regard, she is very much an ancient Greek, not to mention a god. The comic books never set a strong expectation that she was compassionate that way, yet she behaves very strongly when she sees children being harmed, not to mention women. Men are evil and many should be killed, or so it seems. Children are innocents, and women are to be protected. Very Amazonian and reasonable for the character.

Shadar
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08 Jun 2017 06:21 - 08 Jun 2017 06:27 #54591 by lowerbase
Replied by lowerbase on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
Such an odd year for superhero movies...

I can appreciate Nolan's movies, but to me they feel heartless. Some of them can be 'perfect' but they feel like watching a superhero autopsy.

It has been a looong time that I haven't connected emotionally with superhero movies. I think the last time was with Raimi's Spiderman 2, 13 years ago. I mean... I don't care if this movie has flaws. Everything has flaws. All I care is to care.

and then, now, we have Logan, and WW, in the same year, both made with conviction and the heart in the right place. Movies that everyone expected nothing but a flop. Wonder Woman in a Great War setting was a great risk, with an actress that can barely act, or even speak english, and Kirk.

and it paid off big time. Gal in the end was perfect for the role, the naive foreign character fit her like a glove. Chris Pine made the audience to fall in love with him. And it is historically relevant too, because the woman's rights movement starts at the Great War (and the movie wasn't preachy about it!)

Now about our alley...

Look at those actresses, Robin Wright looks strong, all of them fierce, including Gal. All the amazons looked amazing to me, and really... everybody now is looking at that. The studioheads included. It will reshape some things to come.

let's get real, when done right, a woman kicking ass is much cooler than guys doing it. It is the first movie to get it right in my book, ever since the Trinity's first scene in the Matrix.
Last edit: 08 Jun 2017 06:27 by lowerbase.
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09 Jun 2017 13:01 #54620 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
My take on the Wonder Woman movie.
While it is not the movie I wanted to see I loved it.
Not only is it a good Superhero movie it is a good movie in general.

You could tell everyone involved put their hearts into this project and you can clearly see the results on screen.
Chris Pine, like Haley Atwell in Captain America, had the daunting task of not being eclipsed by the star and he did an excellent job of portraying the love interest.
Steve Trevor is a man you'd like to meet.

Gal Gadot played her part well.
PLEASE DON'T KILL ME FOR THIS!
I have many subtle reasons that I just don't connect with this actress.
I feel another actress might have done a better job
Once again this is my own personal opinion..
However that ship has sailed and we have Gal as Wonder Woman.
She did an very good job and we might have gotten a lot worse.
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09 Jun 2017 15:27 #54623 by jdrock24
My wife and saw this movie this past weekend but then I went out of town for work and am just now having a chance to post what I thought.

In short, this movie was awesome. From a "girl power" standpoint, it was very nearly perfect. I mean, if you are on this site and you had problems with the action scenes, you are probably on the wrong site. Her effortlessly lifting the tank and holding it for a number of minutes over her head at the end was the stuff dreams are made of.

As for its standing among superhero movies, it is easily in my top 5. While it is not a masterpiece like The Dark Knight or Batman v Superman, it is certainly on the same level as Man of Steel or The Avengers. I would probably rank it as #4 right now.

By the way, my wife and the girl next to me dressed as Wonder Woman both cried at the end. I cannot confirm or deny that I may have teared up also...

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09 Jun 2017 22:51 - 09 Jun 2017 23:06 #54628 by lowerbase
Replied by lowerbase on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
I wish she had more screen time

people.com/bodies/brooke-ence-wonder-woman/

Markiehoe wrote:
I feel another actress might have done a better job
Once again this is my own personal opinion..
However that ship has sailed and we have Gal as Wonder Woman.


She still has a lot to prove. I didn't like her in Bat vs Sups, Gal crossed me as arrogant.

I wonder if the woman will be able to be the sweet Diana in the next one, then jaded by the years and the killings, and not the wide-eyed girl we met in this movie.

The director will be the same, which is a blessing and a curse. A blessing because she gets the character and its audience, a curse because I feel that a sequel should try new places; to avoid what happened with Star Trek into Darkness, which repeated all the beats from the first one (besides rehashing Wrath of Khan as 'homage').
Last edit: 09 Jun 2017 23:06 by lowerbase.
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10 Jun 2017 01:31 #54629 by Engineered-Sorcery
Replied by Engineered-Sorcery on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
My stance on this film is that it was a good first 2/3rds with a very mediocre final third. If the film had ended with the liberation of the town (or perhaps the snowfall-dancing-scene after, but that's up to the tone with which they want to end the movie) I would have thought it was just as good. Did I like the movie? Yes. Did I think that it should be the blueprint for more films? no.

Many of my praises for the film have already been voiced here. Particularly the more careful and less ham-fisted approach to making the darker and grittier interpretation that is the DCCU more palatable to me. The Nolanverse films I enjoyed, even if I didn't like them, but thank GOD Zack Snyder didn't direct this film. Despite enjoying this film, the fact Snyder is involved with Justice League is almost enough to turn me off of it entirely. That's a rant for another time though, the point itself is that unlike Snyder, Jenkins seemed to actually make an effort to make Wonder Woman a film that had something other than ridiculous over-the-top darkness. World War 1 was a good choice for this film, particularly to counter-point Diana's naive stance on the world around her. It played a nice counterpoint to the previous characters' origin stories, in addition to making her a character of her own.

In terms of scenes, far and away the best was the liberation of the town. It showed the difference in behavior, mannerisms, mindset, and power level between Wonder Woman and her companions, while still allowing each of them to be themselves without being completely overshadowed (more than was necessary) by her presence and power. Charlie's PTSD was a brilliant touch, showing Diana that no, not all humans exuberantly murder people or glorify battle.

On to what I didn't like, because unfortunately there were several things. One was they way they killed Steve off. While I understand it had to be done, the sacrifice was senseless and seemed to only be used to make Diana seem more tragic as a character. They were established to have dynamite, as well as what seemed to be other sorts of explosives, and asking for a stick or bundle which he could light and bail from the plane would have been a far smarter decision than running off to shoot one of the gas tanks. While it had to be done to make WW angry and 'unlock her potential', it was a pointless act that could have been handled far more intelligently if the characters (or the writer) had thought overmuch.

Overall, by far the worst part of the movie for me was the ending fight. Maybe I've just reached the point where I don't want to see super hero movies in live action anymore, but this would have been better as an animated shot. The lightning-redirection trick was practically taken wholecloth from Avatar the Last Airbender, and the entire fight screamed 'this is an anime'. The advantage of live action film is that you can make the action more kinetic, as was shown to great effect in Captain America 3. If you're going to just digitize nearly everything anyway, better to go full animated and take advantage of the fact that for physics breaking characters, drawn scenes have no requirements to abide by the laws of physics. It's the same gripe I had with Batman V. Superman, they made everything dark to cope with the fact that in daylight the CGI would have looked even worse, and the fight scene itself, while mildly impressive occasionally, was far too wide-reaching for a live action film.

I have high hopes for the sequel, maybe it'll improve on the mistakes this one made, and hopefully if Justice League flops it'll still get a chance to fly in and of itself.
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10 Jun 2017 01:38 #54630 by castor
Heres one of the things about Wonder Woman.

For a character which we think we know she has a lot of diffrent interpreations.. Watch this movie, watch Justice Leauge War cartoon and tell me its the same character-the iconagrphys the same not a terrible lot else performance wise-or watch the other cartoons(its intresting comparing this one vs the 2010 movie with the Steve Diana Dynamic), or the Linda Carter show. Now read the comics...

there is a bunch, a bunch of diffrent wonder womans-each diffrent-and thats fine in media for people playing with characters.

They had a character for Wonder Woman here-Good yes kinda of Naive, and obviously very young for what she is-but also headstrong, really doesn't know a lot about the real world though she thinks she does. As i said also they are willing to let that be the joke much more then other superhero movies. They tried to play her up as exotic and vaugely from somewhere if that wasn't clear(well isreal, but thatss a good now where in particular place) Sshes also and angry about the injustices but not super angry, and not specifically agianst the concept of men as in some versions, and also capable of simple kindness and caring even in basic ways-the scene she tells the guy hes good if only becuse he sings really stuck with me.

Which i think comes to the question: is this your idea of what Wonder Woman should be? maybe not.

Its one they went with-And Gal Gadot was a good choice to play that version. Shes a likable Wonder woman, A charismatic Wonder Woman, and kinda of a sweet Wonder Woman-not just a woman who kicks ass and is super authority-but one who you honestly want to see sucseed and her rommance to work becuse she seems so there. Is she the most awesome wonder woman-i think the Cinemtography in the action scenes wanted to sell that, and Gadot looked great in those momments-but when its not that, shes not that. She comes across as a human Wonder-

And that in the end is something. The studio and the director made choices in the wonder woman movie-and i respect what they did. .

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10 Jun 2017 02:21 #54631 by shadar

castor wrote: Heres one of the things about Wonder Woman

....

Which i think comes to the question: is this your idea of what Wonder Woman should be? maybe not.

.


I think the WW version that Jenkins/Gadot and the writers created was almost perfect for me. I've always perceived WW as more human-like than hardcore Amazon, least of all a demi-god. I was influenced by the TV show long ago. Yes, she can kick ass when she wants to, but in the other 99% of her life, she's warm, funny, friendly and compassionate, yet focused and very much awake. The best friend anyone could have Diana is a very special and memorable woman because she can project all these traits at the same time, independent of her WW side.

And yes, she's trained to be the greatest warrior of all time, with the power a goddess, Superman's equal in a fight, but that's not what she lives for.

Anyway, that's what the movie WW suggests to me.
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10 Jun 2017 04:09 - 10 Jun 2017 04:13 #54636 by lowerbase
Replied by lowerbase on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
Engineered-Sorcery wrote:
One was they way they killed Steve off. While I understand it had to be done, the sacrifice was senseless and seemed to only be used to make Diana seem more tragic as a character. They were established to have dynamite, as well as what seemed to be other sorts of explosives, and asking for a stick or bundle which he could light and bail from the plane would have been a far smarter decision than running off to shoot one of the gas tanks.

I think it was okay, not the most clever sacrifice, but I think it worked on multiple levels. It gives her humility, a frail mortal doing something she can't do -to fly-, and saving more lives than superman. It established her whole moral compass (as well as for the audience)

The muted scene where he gives his watch was so freaking emotional. It was brilliant. I only don't know where she kept the watch safe while fighting with another god. Between her breasts?

my biggest fear is that the studio will try to 'resurrect' him. It would be so fucking stupid.

But we know what happens with all the dearest characters in comics and scifi... Spock, Starbucks, and most Supersomethings that died one way or another, and like Jesus they are back.
Last edit: 10 Jun 2017 04:13 by lowerbase.

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10 Jun 2017 04:56 #54638 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
Jenkins does a Reddit AMA: www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/6gc5mp/..._monster_and_wonder/

The Steve Trevor 'average' thing was ad libbed by Chris Pine.

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10 Jun 2017 08:03 #54639 by slim36
Was the putting the movie into WWI but also having a Dunkirk evacuation - was it just a promo for the coming Dunkirk movie? Or did they feel having the WW II villain might be too dark?
For me it was probably more interesting since I know less about WWI

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10 Jun 2017 09:56 #54641 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

slim36 wrote: Was the putting the movie into WWI but also having a Dunkirk evacuation - was it just a promo for the coming Dunkirk movie? Or did they feel having the WW II villain might be too dark?
For me it was probably more interesting since I know less about WWI


I believe the W.W.I. setting was mostly done to separate her origin from Captain America.

However as others have noted does she sit out W.W.II?
Surely she would have fought and history would have recorded her actions.

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11 Jun 2017 04:45 #54667 by grungykitten
Replied by grungykitten on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
I guess I'm the only one here who left the auditorium feeling non-plussed. To be clear, I don't think it's a bad movie, but given the hype and the stellar reviews, I was hoping for something more.

I should be happy with it. The performances are excellent; Gadot and Pine have fantastic chemistry on screen. The action scenes are up there with the best this genre has to offer. But for me, it's all let down by the utterly formulaic, ham-fisted writing. Making the entire movie a flash-back sequence... shoving ten minutes of campy exposition in at the start... the shoehorned comedic interludes... the sexual tension, and then the deus-ex-machina videogame ending. It's like they were just checking items off a list.

Look, I get it. Marvel has set the superhero-movie template, and now everyone feels they must follow it. I can't exactly argue with the stellar box-office numbers this movie is doing. And I don't regret having spent $16 on this movie. But when I leave a Marvel movie, I'm replaying scenes from it in my head for the next couple of days. With this, I'm not. It's just so depressingly mediocre.

I might go watch the 2009 animated movie again. Even that had a better story than this.

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12 Jun 2017 00:53 #54679 by demethon

Woodclaw wrote: As far as I'm concerned Wonder Woman has a good first act, a great second act and terribly weak third act.

This. A thousand times, yes.

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12 Jun 2017 01:31 - 12 Jun 2017 01:40 #54680 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
Hmm... How to review Wonder Woman?

I'll say that from an "ubergirl" perspective, the movie was great. Wonder Woman rocked in those scenes for sure. As a fan of this genre, I was not disappointed in the slightest in this regard.

As a movie, I have to say, it was actually pretty good. Certainly the best by a MILE that has come from the DC stable.

Have to agree with some of the others here, good first act, great second act and very weak final act, is a good way of putting it.

The first act felt very exposition-ary, but that's ok since its an origin tale. The second act was great, with some really nice set pieces. The reveal in the trenches is probably the best scene in the film tbh, visually and also thematically. And if the film had ended with the liberation of the village, it would have worked a whole lot better.

I especially liked the way they got Diana into the bell tower, calling back to what Steve and Diana saw on the beach. Its little things like this I enjoy the most in movies, set-ups and pay-offs.

Unfortunately, the film is let down by a visual mess of a third act, and also a slightly non-nonsensical one. As others have said, where was she in WWII (among other things)? And David Thewlis was fine as the crusty English guy, whispering his machinations, but when he was Ares it just didn't work. He seemed to be forcing the lines out, shouting them rather then delivering them, which seemed a bit jarring.

Kudos to Jenkins and the team for getting the best out of Gadot. Her acting sucks, but they did something really clever in that they actually crafted the character based on her talent. Gadot LOOKS great, she is a very attractive woman, but she is no actress. So they shifted a lot of the heavy stuff to Chris Pine. He carried the majority of the film imo and its more a Steve Trevor film then Wonder Woman if I'm honest. On top of that, they also surrounded her with three other characters, creating a Howling Commandos crew and vibe.

And it worked.

They turned Wonder Woman into Captain America lol

This was more or less CA:The First Avenger but female version.

But hey, it worked.

I was entertained by it for the most part.

Sure its not the story I would have chosen to write for Wonder Woman, but it is what it is. And in the main, it didn't suck. So thumbs up there.

A problem I can see coming is how do they move forward. I mean, sure the "fish out of water", naive Diana, Gadot seems to sell well. But when you transplant that into the modern era, hmm, how well will that work? I guess only time will tell.

Is it the best superhero film ever? No. Is it as good as the hype suggest? Certainly not.

But, well done DC. You shuffled the deck and you actually have a decent film. Keep it up...oh wait Justice League is coming, doh! :p

Just my 2-cents.

Peace.

/K

P.S. I have to say, Robin Wright looked pretty buff as Antiope, and is a fine actress to boot. I would love to have seen her as Wonder Woman.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2017 01:40 by kikass2014.
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12 Jun 2017 16:49 - 12 Jun 2017 16:55 #54694 by shadar
After hearing someone on Fox claiming that Wonder Woman sucked because she didn't have enough American stars on her costume, I decided to take a journey down the left-hand fork of Wingnut Highway to see if I could find a review that was also unintentionally funny on the other side.

I found a doozy. The Wonder Woman is Propaganda. review. Written by a millennial feminist woman who writes with great skill, it's a display of the kind of absurd distortions that come when you see everything through ideologically tinted glasses -- in this case, very thick ones. But it does rank high in my Unintentionally Funny rankings, so I've decided to share it.

I seriously doubt if ANYONE on SWM shared ANY of this reviewer's thoughts during the movie, which makes it all the more unintentionally hilarious. Enjoy.

newrepublic.com/article/143100/wonder-woman-propaganda

Shadar
Last edit: 12 Jun 2017 16:55 by shadar.
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12 Jun 2017 19:24 #54696 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

shadar wrote: After hearing someone on Fox claiming that Wonder Woman sucked because she didn't have enough American stars on her costume, I decided to take a journey down the left-hand fork of Wingnut Highway to see if I could find a review that was also unintentionally funny on the other side.

I found a doozy. The Wonder Woman is Propaganda. review. Written by a millennial feminist woman who writes with great skill, it's a display of the kind of absurd distortions that come when you see everything through ideologically tinted glasses -- in this case, very thick ones. But it does rank high in my Unintentionally Funny rankings, so I've decided to share it.

I seriously doubt if ANYONE on SWM shared ANY of this reviewer's thoughts during the movie, which makes it all the more unintentionally hilarious. Enjoy.

newrepublic.com/article/143100/wonder-woman-propaganda

Shadar


It's like I got what she was saying, but I feel there was a river of assumed viewpoint that she just assumed I agreed with.

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