A-Force #1

A-Force #1 is out today, from your LCBS or Comixology .

This is Marvel's all-female team tie-in to their Secret Wars event, where they're doing a DC and destroying/recreating the universe.

It's nice that they don't make a big deal about, or even really comment on, the fact that A-Force are all women, and it's hard not to have some affection for a book where Captain Marvel punches a giant prehistoric shark, but it's very tied in to the Secret Wars event. On its own it probably won't make a lot of sense.

Still, who hasn't dreamed of a world run by Jennifer Walters. And, Captain Marvel punching a giant shark...

You should check out my story "Pump it Up" in AC Comics FemForce 166 published last year.
I had Ms. Victory punching out a gigantic, prehistoric Kraken in that one.
And she did it underwater!

geekseven wrote: A-Force #1 is out today, from your LCBS or Comixology .

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This is Marvel's all-female team tie-in to their Secret Wars event, where they're doing a DC and destroying/recreating the universe.

It's nice that they don't make a big deal about, or even really comment on, the fact that A-Force are all women, and it's hard not to have some affection for a book where Captain Marvel punches a giant prehistoric shark, but it's very tied in to the Secret Wars event. On its own it probably won't make a lot of sense.

Still, who hasn't dreamed of a world run by Jennifer Walters. And, Captain Marvel punching a giant shark...

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While they may not be making a big deal of it now, they certainly were a few months ago when the title was announced. Marvel wanted everyone to know just how progressive they were to do an all-female team. Just like all the other times they've done Female centric group titles like Divas.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see more female characters getting a positive spotlight instead of how they've been treated in the past. I'm just a realist in that Marvel sees this as a niche market to exploit rather than commit serious resources to. Despite being owned by Disney, they are very much in the 'girls aren't a big customer/merchndising base compared to boys' mentality.

ArgentDragon wrote:
While they may not be making a big deal of it now, they certainly were a few months ago when the title was announced. Marvel wanted everyone to know just how progressive they were to do an all-female team. Just like all the other times they've done Female centric group titles like Divas.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see more female characters getting a positive spotlight instead of how they've been treated in the past. I'm just a realist in that Marvel sees this as a niche market to exploit rather than commit serious resources to. Despite being owned by Disney, they are very much in the 'girls aren't a big customer/merchndising base compared to boys' mentality.

I always caution people to separate PR/Advertising from what the company is doing and evaluate the actual comic for what the creative team is doing. Yes, all these things are related, but they aren't really connected/done by same people.

So of course Marvel's bombastic PR (it's been this way since Stan Lee), will come out and toot their horn and drum up what press they can. That might be a bit connected to the business decision to create the book, but it rarely has any effect on the creative team. (Saw this with Thor, where people seemed to think the book was PR-driven by how it was announced, and that wasn't the case. OTH the Thor sales say "what they were doing seems to be working...")

You see this all the time when trailers don't fit the movie, and covers/ad copy don't really fit the book. The creatives behind those things usually have little say in them, and sometimes a different team is in control of that than the team that say "hey, let's fund this!".

But, I don't think this is "business as usual" in the old sense (like Divas). For one, look at the covers for A-Force vs the covers for Marvel Diva's. Diva's covers were all pin-ups, and was what Marvel though would appeal to Men (not women). A-Force has a nice cover -- one designed to bring in comic book fans. Note "comic book fans", meaning both sexes. There isn't anything wrong with the Diva's approach, and it'll even draw in some female readers. But A-Force says "I'm a comic. I'm fun, full of action, and you want to buy me. And,oh, I happen to star all women." It's marketed and presented like any other issues of Avengers, and not "Sexy Women Avengers" (the team just happens to naturally be filled with sexy women, as pretty much every avenger is sexy, male or female.)

If you look at A-Force it also exists in a world with the following comics, most of them recent (2013+). This is a fair amount of resources for Marvel to commit:

- Captain Marvel
- Ms. Marvel
- Black Widow
- Spider-Woman
- X-Men (the all female X-men comic) (for that matter the other teams are very women heavy too, and women run the Jean Grey school, even if one of the teachers wears black leather hot pants).
- Thor
- Spider-Gwen
- Silk

Too bad She-Hulk was canceled, though I wasn't the hugest fan of the comic. (I have every issue of a comic that is "She-Hulk", starting from She-Hulk #1 in 81).

Now the most telling thing about these comics are their diversity. Captain Marvel is about a mature powerful woman, trying to get her life back in order and having a giant space opera in the middle of it. (fun comic). Ms. Marvel is about a teenager, and is very much the Peter Parker template updated for the new century. Black Widow is a great spy tale, and a tale of a broken woman seeking redemption though she believes that she can never find it. X-Men is a comic about several of the women in X-Men, and is a great team comic. Spider-Woman has a different tone, a P.I. feel to super-heroes, with a bit of humor. Thor is a great tale, mixed with some of Odinson degenerating as he (wrongly) defined himself by his worthiness to hold Mjolnir and a tale of a woman learning what it means to be Thor.

That is, like you'd mostly get if you randomly grabbed a pile of male led comics, they're all different in tone and content. I'd bet that few people buy them all. (Except for comic book addicts, and if it's a good story starring a strong woman, well, sign me up.) But another interesting thing is those are some of the best comics Marvel is making now. Might not be by sales, but Black Widow is fantastic, Ms. Marvel is a breath of fresh air, I always wish captain Marvel would be better, but it manages to sneak by. Thor is one of the better streaks of the comic, we'll see if it can keep it up. (Doubly so since Secret Wars pissed all over it.).

A-Force was one of the better "Secret Wars" title, but I'm not sure we can judge them quite yet.

And even Black Widow, a character renowned for using sex as a weapon, even though her comic DOES somestimes have pin-up covers, compare the first three issues with the Diva's covers:

emptybamboogirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2...kwidow_marvelnow.jpg

So I think this is a shift in perception from the company (And in DC too). Of course, it's a business so it'll depend on sales. If you remove the Star Wars titles, here are the top marvel comics for April 2015 (in order)

- Spider-Gwen
- Amazing Spider-Man
- Deadpool
- Thor
- Amazing Spider-Man (.1 issue)
Uncanny Inhumans (WTF? I gave up on this title. I also didn't count this, but the InHumans happen to be female led at the moment too....)
Avengers
Avengers Ultron Forever
Silk
New Avengers

3 female led titles in the top 10, 2 in the top five, including #1. (And Princess Leia outsold them all, but Darth Vader and Star Wars outsold it.) Honestly why Black Widow isn't up there I have no idea.

www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-04.html

Convergence screws up the DCs #'s but it's no surprise that Harley Quinn is one of their most popular books. (You'll find a similar theme ongoing at DC too.)

I think with #'s like those Marvel is listening, and trying to figure out how to make more. With Spider-Gwen's sales it's no wonder Marvel is doing a month of bonus Gwen-as-various-heroes.

Sorry, I get long winded and over analyze everything. I suspect the #'s I found, but I didn't know what they were, and wondered when I was replying so went and found out.

TwiceOnThursdays said everything I was going to say about creative/corporate/PR, but more eloquently, and in more detail than I would have been able to. Although, he did omit Fearless Defenders from the list of recent(ish) female-led titles.

I agree it's too early to judge Secret Wars - although it's funny to compare it to the original 1984 series to see how much comics have changed - but if you're not following the series, A-Force may not be as interesting. For example, I know that DC has an all-female JLA line-up for one of their Convergence tie-ins, but oh god I would rather have a colonoscopy than subject myself to Convergence.

I would add that Disney's pernicious insistence on dictating what boys and girls should like is worse with merchandising and advertising. Black Widow being erased from Age of Ultron t-shirts and toys, for example. ("Remember that awesome scene with Black Widow on the motorcycle? Well, F*** You, the toy has Captain America instead." - Disney)

They are losing out, even if they don't admit it. I took my Black Widow t-shirt dollars to fan artists. 2/3rds of the group I went to see Age of Ultron with were women.

geekseven wrote: TwiceOnThursdays said everything I was going to say about creative/corporate/PR, but more eloquently, and in more detail than I would have been able to. Although, he did omit Fearless Defenders from the list of recent(ish) female-led titles.

I agree it's too early to judge Secret Wars - although it's funny to compare it to the original 1984 series to see how much comics have changed - but if you're not following the series, A-Force may not be as interesting. For example, I know that DC has an all-female JLA line-up for one of their Convergence tie-ins, but oh god I would rather have a colonoscopy than submit myself to Convergence.

I would add that Disney's pernicious insistence on dictating what boys and girls should like is worse with merchandising and advertising. Black Widow being erased from Age of Ultron t-shirts and toys, for example. ("Remember that awesome scene with Black Widow on the motorcycle? Well, F*** You, the toy has Captain America instead." - Disney)

They are losing out, even if they don't admit it. I took my Black Widow t-shirt dollars to fan artists. 2/3rds of the group I went to see Age of Ultron with were women.

This does go to a fairly simple point. Though statics are a little hard to keep most studies suggest that 50% or so of the comic reading audience is Women. Simple as that.

49% of people who see superhero movies are women(and i belive 51% of movies in general).

Titles change a lot from month to month( i doubt the popularity of Spider Gwen is going to last all that long, but the broader trends remain for both major companies. I think the reason Black Widdow doesn't sell very well is spy comics don't sell very well...but hell thats the same kind of logic that goes to women in comics don't sell. It can be wrong

( It should be pointed out that when Stan Lee was running Marvel, Marvel didn't so much as try as Superheroine title until very late 70s, long after DC had a lot of sucess with them. Three of there top selling titles at this point where women centric)

Comics are in someways a very intresting media in this regard. They do take a couple of months to get from idea to newstand- but it safe to say this time last year Spider Gwen was probabbly at best an idea and maybe a concept page. Now shes one of marvels best selling characters. This is a very quick very quick market., maybe one of the quickest of any pop media. TV Episodes once they get established can be quick, but rarely are faster. Movies can take a decade to get to the theaters and rarely less then two or three years. This is slow. So when market forces put pressure on them, Comics can book.They can experiment.

One of the reasons toys are somewhat conservative market is it almost always takes a year before you have a mold of something and almost a full year to get it from china to a toy store-and if it doesn't sell well your at the mercy of your intial orders. When you say that Marvel changed there toy so black widdow wasn't doing the stunt they wheren't responding to something Weddon said-they made the call probabbly before the scene had been filmed.

the media has been complaining about this for at least a decade if not longer in toys. But i aploaud both comics companies for trying and well sucseeding.. But well things do change, and i do get the sence that numbers like this will change them more then think peices in the new york times.

geekseven wrote: TwiceOnThursdays said everything I was going to say about creative/corporate/PR, but more eloquently, and in more detail than I would have been able to. Although, he did omit Fearless Defenders from the list of recent(ish) female-led titles.

I agree it's too early to judge Secret Wars - although it's funny to compare it to the original 1984 series to see how much comics have changed - but if you're not following the series, A-Force may not be as interesting. For example, I know that DC has an all-female JLA line-up for one of their Convergence tie-ins, but oh god I would rather have a colonoscopy than submit myself to Convergence.

I would add that Disney's pernicious insistence on dictating what boys and girls should like is worse with merchandising and advertising. Black Widow being erased from Age of Ultron t-shirts and toys, for example. ("Remember that awesome scene with Black Widow on the motorcycle? Well, F*** You, the toy has Captain America instead." - Disney)

They are losing out, even if they don't admit it. I took my Black Widow t-shirt dollars to fan artists. 2/3rds of the group I went to see Age of Ultron with were women.

This does go to a fairly simple point. Though statics are a little hard to keep most studies suggest that 50% or so of the comic reading audience is Women. Simple as that.

49% of people who see superhero movies are women(and i belive 51% of movies in general). This is a hard number.

Titles change a lot from month to month( i doubt the popularity of Spider Gwen is going to last all that long, but the broader trends remain for both major companies. I think the reason Black Widdow doesn't sell very well is spy comics don't sell very well...but hell thats the same kind of logic that goes to women in comics don't sell. It can be wrong

( It should be pointed out that when Stan Lee was running Marvel, Marvel didn't so much as try as Superheroine title until very late 70s, long after DC had a lot of sucess with them. Three of there top selling titles at this point where women centric. But well credit where credit is do, this has changed.

Comics are in someways a very intresting media in this regard. They do take a couple of months to get from idea to newstand- but it safe to say this time last year Spider Gwen was probabbly at best an idea and maybe a concept page. Now shes one of marvels best selling characters. This is a very quick very quick market., maybe one of the quickest of any pop media. TV Episodes once they get established can be quick, but rarely are faster. Movies can take a decade to get to the theaters and rarely less then two or three years. This is slow. So when market forces put pressure on them, Comics can book.They can experiment.

One of the reasons toys are somewhat conservative market is it almost always takes a year before you have a mold of something and almost a full year to get it from china to a toy store-and if it doesn't sell well your at the mercy of your intial orders. When you say that Marvel changed there toy so black widdow wasn't doing the stunt they wheren't responding to something Weddon said-they made the call probabbly before the scene had been filmed.

the media has been complaining about this for at least a decade if not longer in toys. But i aploaud both comics companies for trying and well sucseeding.. But well things do change, and i do get the sence that numbers like this will change them more then think peices in the new york times.

geekseven wrote: TwiceOnThursdays said everything I was going to say about creative/corporate/PR, but more eloquently, and in more detail than I would have been able to. Although, he did omit Fearless Defenders from the list of recent(ish) female-led titles.

I did forget it (despite buying the title for awhile), but I was really focusing on the current publications -- things that had started recently (to show the trend) and were still being published.

Naturally a few of these things would have failed. The fact that X-Men, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel are all going strong is telling. Mostly Fearless Defenders and She-Hulk fell by the wayside. And some of the new characters (Spider-Gwen, Silk) are selling quite well.

I suspect (from the art) that Marvel is a bit surprised by Spider-Gwen, and suspect they'll do a switch up there soon.

It'll be interesting to see how well A-Force sells in regards to the rest of Secret Wars. It really was quite fun.

And Convergence really is absolutely dreadful. The support titles are almost to a one dreadful, and the main title is really not very good. Secret Wars so far is better, more coherent, and has a denser story. Though I've been tired of the lead up, it seems like Avengers has been on this story for YEARS. Shit, it started BEFORE Thor did, and it's had 8 issues.

lfan wrote:

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: And Convergence really is absolutely dreadful. The support titles are almost to a one dreadful, and the main title is really not very good. Secret Wars so far is better, more coherent, and has a denser story. Though I've been tired of the lead up, it seems like Avengers has been on this story for YEARS. Shit, it started BEFORE Thor did, and it's had 8 issues.

Agreed......I'm a diehard DC guy, but Convergence would have to improve dramatically to be considered "a train wreck"

ElF

I'm just a diehard comics guy, I grew up leaning towards Marvel, but I always bought a few DC titles, and then read my friends comics. One of them makes my collection look small. He has every issue of the JLA, including Brave and the Bold 28, and for XMAS i bought him an issue of Batman that gives him a 41 year run.

I'm already wary of big events as "not very good" is quite common, but Convergence is so bad, it defines a new level of suck, the next big DC event I'm going to tell my comic book store to not pull anything related to it. I'll decide if anything is worth buying. I might let them continue pulling comics I normally get, but I probably check to see if I can just skip them.

I've also dropped Wonder Woman from my pull (but not Sensation). I think this is the first time I've dropped Wonder Woman from my pull since Perez took over. (I think I dropped almost everything for a few years in the 90's, and just bought a very limited set, I probably dropped WW and bought it sporadically at that time).