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Suicide Squad

15 Aug 2016 01:09 #49608 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Suicide Squad
Castor's charts are wonderful. I especially love the opening/US/Foreign breakdown. It's amazing how much a % of US sales in opening weekend, and how large foreign sales are. I guess there is a reason to keep China happy so they'll show your movie.

I also noticed something with the Marvel totals next to the DC ones.

Excluding Iron Man, *all* of Marvel's movies that had a lower Box Office/Cost than BvS, were cheaper than Suicide Squad to make. Even Guardians was made cheaper than Suicide Squad, because no one would have guessed it'd be a bit a hit as it was. (I bet GoG2 has a bigger budget.)

I don't even want to know what the budget is for Infinity War if the graphic Robert Downey Jr posted is correct .. as it has *all* the Agents of Shield, Netflix heroes (Daredevil, Cage, Jessica Jones), Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Dr Strange, the GoG, Ant-Man, the Wasp, and everyone from all the Avengers movies. It makes Civil War look like a small character film. That's a *lot* of actor costs....

I think Iron Man can get a pass, as it was Marvel's first movie that they actually made, and needed to learn what to do. Even then it was 186M to 175M (though we should adjust for inflation too..). But it shows that even though Iron Man (at the time) was considered a super-mega hit, Marvel learned a lesson from it, and came back with better budgets. They got better at the behind the scenes production costs to make a movie and kept expenses down.

When Marvel plunked down $250M to make a movie, they *all* returned in the > 4.5 BO/Cost. Though the FIRST one they did where they made the most money. That could be a bit to fatigue, Avengers was born into an easier world to sell it than BvS or Civil War was.

Marvel rightly held back on the costs for Thor, Hulk, and Captain America: FA. Once they knew what they were doing, and had judged the response, they spent more to make movies and ended up making more for it. But they still kept Ant-Man down, making it their cheapest movie...

My only comment is it'd be nice to somehow graphically note the budget in the first table (maybe with a tick or a line on the chart?).

Also, this is the production budget. Is there any way to get ahold of the advertising budget for each movie? I don't think that's part of the production budget is it?

There's also the ancillary product sales (toys, tie in promotions, etc). But I don't know if anyone actually gets those real #'s.

Anyway, double kudos to Castor for these. I really enjoyed them.

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15 Aug 2016 01:22 #49610 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Suicide Squad
A quick comment to my above one:

I also notice if you arrange the marvel movies by production cost:

Ant-Man
Hulk
Captain America:FA
Thor & Thor 2 (tied)

This list contains their 3 worst profitability returns: Hulk, CA: FA, Thor. I don't think this is an accident either. The bad performers all came out before Avengers, which might be part of the reason that Thor 2 did better. I think Ant-Man is a surprise hit just like GoG, and the fact that people liked GoG might be part of the reason they went "Marvel seems to know what they're doing with these odd ball movies" and made people more likely to see it.

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15 Aug 2016 05:15 - 15 Aug 2016 05:20 #49613 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad
Thanks

Unfortunitly there really isn't a good way of getting P&A costs. Studios rarely surface these numbers. In the original argument it was all "but Watners spend so much advertising"-so does Marvel., but what point and what numbers hard to say. The story in the last 10 years is that these numbers are increasing-but Actual Printing Costs are down near Zero with the rise of digital projection(before it cost like 10 million to make 200 35 prints) and a lot of Advertising is on the internet which is cheeper...so i donno.

These are interesting numbers. It is worth noting with all the comments about Sucide Squad and its Reshoots,

To go back to 2008s Iron Man they wanted to do that-what they did instead was delay the movie about 6 months as they more or less CGIed a new action climax out of scraps of footage they had when they Couldn't get RDJ for it. Which is part of the reason the budget is rather high for a movie thats really not that action packed. but they got better at cutting costs.

There skill at cutting costs i think has helped them a lot, on a lot of the movies you mentioned- i think a large part of that is they have gotten better at figuring out special effects, actors

DC is actually getting a little better at this i think.

It goes back to Like Green Lantern-w which did flop at the box office 219 million on a 200 million budget. A huge part of its failure is....it is all cgi. There is maybe a 1/4 to 1/3 of the movie that may as well be an animated movie- and a huge part of that is...Green Lanterns entire costume in almost every every scene is CGI. hes not wearing a real costume, but a subtly glowing animated costume. It looks interesting-not good but intresting- and its on record with adding about 50 million to the budget. (its also interesting to compare to Hector Hamound in the movie which is makeup-and does look not badly gross).

Man of Steel has some of the same issues. Except instead of an entire suit its his cape in 90% of the movie, which is CGI and pretty much every scene tht hes flying. An effect that's better, but i would argue not great.

Man of Steel 2- despite having a slightly higher budget over all still has fake cape but in some scenes less CGi Clark. And since the suit is the same from the last time the money they spent devoloping it is the same cost less to animate

Of course the same is largely true of Iron man - who after 5 movies they have reduced the cost of animating him out and making him fly considerably-cause well its the same thing after 5 movies.

But the actual humans cost more. I'll say this Iron Man 3 isn't that bigger movie then say Iron Man 2-but it has a 100 million more budget-and a lot of that Went to Robert Downey Jr. Civil War is even bigger-though except for one big battle thats not really that special effects heavy, if anything less spectacular then even Sucide Squad or arguably Antman. And the reason of course is they had to get a dozen biggisn names in for that one.

But to my point-i do think DC is in a Decent enough little place with its movies- you can say "But what about actual proffit-" there not making as much as Marvel really is per movie, but these movies do kinda of expose there intelectual property. I have said it before- Squad maybe a backdoor pilot to a Harley Quinn movie and by that measure in terms of ticket sales i think it does fine.

Mean. its Got Wonder Woman Next year which is probabbly going to do by these standards well(b Vs S did a great job of establish who she is to audiences. incuding this board to 'skinny arms') Its Got Justice Leauge, which i am not entirely sure, but lets go with well- Flash is popular, Aquaman looks cute...and i kinda conceptually like Cyborg,. Harley Quinn could be an intresting movie, and yeah i do think Sucidie Squad will probabbly get a sequal if it makes this kind of numbers actually mean anything.

Meanwhile i kinda wonder if MCU best films are behind them. I'm on record for actively disliking Antman) so its sequal-will see. The Wasp was best and worst part of the movie., Thor 3 is cutting the ellments i liked best in the original(the romantic comedy bits which were dumb but human). Avengers Movies! Guardians of the Galaxy!!...and

one of the thing i noticed when getting the numbers for this chart. Captian Marvel is coming out in 2019.....thats a long ways.
Last edit: 15 Aug 2016 05:20 by castor.

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15 Aug 2016 11:25 #49617 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad
Nice charts Castor. Would love to have seen that discussion :)

While I can see the more positive spin on it, as a WB exec, this would have me a little worried.

The problem with this analysis, pretty good as it is, is the fact that it misses, imo, a key point.

Man of Steel and Batman VS Superman, feature DC’s MAIN STARS (Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman).

Marvel, on the other hand, don’t have their main icons – Fantastic Four and, specifically, X-Men. And they only recently got back one of them, Spiderman (in a round-about-sort-of-way).

So, that analysis can be interpreted as being even more damning in the sense that Marvel is producing, and achieving, better results, with lesser known (at the time the films were made) characters.

As a WB Exec, this would have me even more worried.

If my A-team can’t beat my competitions B-team, well, that’s a problem.

Peace.

/K

P.S.

BVS did better then Guardians, not as good…


BVS contains DC’s (heck, most of comic-doms) flagship icons. Guardians contained characters even most MARVEL fans were not aware of, or had interest in. BVS should have made double or triple what Guardians made.

I don’t think the problem is marketing. It’s manufacturing.

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17 Aug 2016 20:40 - 17 Aug 2016 20:41 #49661 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Suicide Squad
Well here is a twist.
Jared Leto is not happy with the final product and has not seen the film.
This is after going on a promotional tour asking us to see the movie.
Reminds me of Kate Mara and Fantastic Four last year.

uk.movies.yahoo.com/jared-leto-reportedl...-into-184403204.html
Last edit: 17 Aug 2016 20:41 by Markiehoe. Reason: Capitalization

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18 Aug 2016 14:22 #49673 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad
Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.

That particular report on Leto is from some fan site that not one member of the media heard or verified themselves (It says that right there in the "story" if you are curious). What happened to getting at least two sources before running with a story? Or how about, I don't know, asking Leto himself?!!!

These desperate grab for clicks is getting ridiculous...

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18 Aug 2016 16:44 #49674 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

Markiehoe wrote: Well here is a twist.
Jared Leto is not happy with the final product and has not seen the film.
This is after going on a promotional tour asking us to see the movie.
Reminds me of Kate Mara and Fantastic Four last year.

uk.movies.yahoo.com/jared-leto-reportedl...-into-184403204.html


This guy is right. I wonder how many members of the media are going to step up and say they made a mistake when running with this "story"?:

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18 Aug 2016 21:05 #49677 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

jdrock24 wrote: Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.

That particular report on Leto is from some fan site that not one member of the media heard or verified themselves (It says that right there in the "story" if you are curious). What happened to getting at least two sources before running with a story? Or how about, I don't know, asking Leto himself?!!!

These desperate grab for clicks is getting ridiculous...


It was intresting-i mentioned the conversation i got into last week, and talked to a lot of people about the failure of the film, its going to loose money etc. Just a lot of venom and bile and hate on it.

One of the people who did was one of the proveribal "Get checks from marvel" type-in that he actually is an employee for Marvel(he works for the website)-and got to say. He was one of the most possitive abot it. They way people seem to really hate these movies is...i donno. i guess it goes back to the comics and old likes and dislikes..but i donno.

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18 Aug 2016 21:50 #49678 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad
Just passed $500M worldwide.....

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18 Aug 2016 21:57 #49679 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Suicide Squad
What did I say that was not true?
Jared Leto is not happy with the film.
He has not seen the film.
He went on a promotional tour asking people to see a film he has not seen.
Kate Mara did and said similar things.

I am actually very happy Suicide Squad is doing well.
I may not like the movie but I am glad others do.
It means more Comic book super type story movies in the future.
Hopefully we will get more Ubergirl movies.

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18 Aug 2016 22:29 #49680 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Suicide Squad

Markiehoe wrote: What did I say that was not true?
Jared Leto is not happy with the film.
He has not seen the film.
He went on a promotional tour asking people to see a film he has not seen.
Kate Mara did and said similar things.


A couple of points:

-I don't know if he is not happy. I think he is disappointed that his Joker was not in it more. Frankly, I was too until I realized that this is a Suicide Squad movie and not a Joker movie. Admittedly, I think it would have been great if Joker was the villain instead of who we got. Hopefully, he appears in future DCEU movies and causes some trouble.

- I don't think it is that unusual for actors to refuse to view their own movies. Leto said he has never seen Dallas Buyer's Club, a film for which he won an Oscar. Jesse Eisenberg said he's never watched any of his movies either. I'm sure there are others. Point being, this should not be construed as some kind of negative. Some people just don't like watching themselves on screen. Personally, I hate hearing the sound of my own voice (like on a recording). I sound all scratchy and nasally.

I am actually very happy Suicide Squad is doing well.
I may not like the movie but I am glad others do.
It means more Comic book super type story movies in the future.
Hopefully we will get more Ubergirl movies.


I'm glad we agree on something...

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18 Aug 2016 23:12 - 18 Aug 2016 23:14 #49681 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

Just passed $500M worldwide.....


According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P

It will hit $500,000,000 this weekend (I assume).

Anywho. This, while on the surface looks impressive, one should consider the following. Out of the box office gross, a studio gets, being generous, 50%. So, what does that mean for Suicide Squad?

Box Office Mojo has its production budget as $175 million. Factoring in a marketing budget of, best guess for these big blockbusters, $100 million, puts the total cost of Suicide Squad at $275,000,000.

Even hitting the $500,000,000 mark, the film will barely break even, let alone make the profit margin big execs expect.

Now, why would I bother posting something like that? Or any criticism? What is the point?

Man, the hate machine will do anything to tear the DCEU down and idiots just continue to believe any silly story that is put out there.


Contrary to popular belief, I (and I can only speak for myself here) don’t hate this film, and DC films in general, for the sake of hating.

Like I have said, there are many, MANY reasons why I dislike this film. And it is not just to be “cool”.

The reason for this, like I’ve said before, is because I as a fan, want BETTER films of my favorite DC characters that I grew up reading. And I'm not getting that, on any level.

Now on the other end of the spectrum, we have people who defend these films. Vehemently in some cases. Fine.

However, the “defenders” also create a problem. The problem is if people keep “supporting” these films, then WB will not improve them. The solution? If people criticize them, then they will improve. A win-win for all.

I don’t mind debate. Thus if anyone can offer a reasoned argument as to why this film is good (outside of “You’re just too dumb to get it” or “Well I like it, screw what others say”) I will change my mind (for the purpose of this debate, we will ignore Man of Steel and BvS).

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 18 Aug 2016 23:14 by kikass2014.

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18 Aug 2016 23:13 #49682 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Suicide Squad

jdrock24 wrote:

Markiehoe wrote: Well here is a twist.
Jared Leto is not happy with the final product and has not seen the film.
This is after going on a promotional tour asking us to see the movie.
Reminds me of Kate Mara and Fantastic Four last year.

uk.movies.yahoo.com/jared-leto-reportedl...-into-184403204.html


This guy is right. I wonder how many members of the media are going to step up and say they made a mistake when running with this "story"?:


Pretty much this guys entire point was in both articles;

[Leto allegedly also revealed that Warner Bros made him sign a contract that stopped him from partaking in the likes of rock climbing and other dangerous activities to prevent injury.

Leto is believed to have responded to this part of his contract by yelling “f*** ‘em,” and then presumably taking part in them anyway./quote]

It could have been edited but that the exact impression that I got when I read it soon after it was first posted here. The second batman site even links to a bbc radio interview if you really want to hear what Leto thinks about it.

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18 Aug 2016 23:31 #49683 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Suicide Squad
[quote="- I don't think it is that unusual for actors to refuse to view their own movies. Leto said he has never seen Dallas Buyer's Club, a film for which he won an Oscar. Jesse Eisenberg said he's never watched any of his movies either. I'm sure there are others. Point being, this should not be construed as some kind of negative. Some people just don't like watching themselves on screen. Personally, I hate hearing the sound of my own voice (like on a recording). I sound all scratchy and nasally.


In my day job I build things to make a living. I try to do my best and I will stand next to anything I build.
In my night job I write and make videos.
This is a team effort. I read the finished product of my comics work and I watch the videos after the editors get done.
It is a team effort and I support the team. I also like to see what I have done so i can do better next time.

And I also hate the sound of my own voice. So I try to effect a different voice when I speak on videos.

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19 Aug 2016 02:52 #49685 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote: According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P


It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark

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19 Aug 2016 03:24 #49686 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

lfan wrote:

kikass2014 wrote: According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P


It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


I think box office mojo only does the weekened by weekend, and maybe a little slow to report foriegn. In any case in other markets movies do a little more business on Sunday and other days.

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19 Aug 2016 03:36 #49688 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote:

Just passed $500M worldwide.....


According to Box Office Mojo, as of 17th August, the film has pulled in $482,000,000 worldwide. But that’s just me being pedantic :P

It will hit $500,000,000 this weekend (I assume).

Anywho. This, while on the surface looks impressive, one should consider the following. Out of the box office gross, a studio gets, being generous, 50%. So, what does that mean for Suicide Squad?

Box Office Mojo has its production budget as $175 million. Factoring in a marketing budget of, best guess for these big blockbusters, $100 million, puts the total cost of Suicide Squad at $275,000,000.

Even hitting the $500,000,000 mark, the film will barely break even, let alone make the profit margin big execs expect.

Now, why would I bother posting something like that? Or any criticism? What is the point?

/K


I think your largely right. I think all said in done its going do around 250 but thats an unkown

but things which are often ignored

1. Tax credits: Warner Brothers filmed it in Ontario which gives about 25% of the budget back for the pleasure to film there. Now this is only production cost not special effects and other post, but thats probabbly 30-40 or so million.

2. Dvd, Streaming and Blueray are still things. Not as big but still big. TV to. One of the real appeals of PG-13 is you can show it on cable. For a big studio movie this can pump out 75-100 million. It should be noted that there are countries where this is most of movies.

3. The movie has moved a fair amount of merchandise. This isn't like it used to be for star wars but i am going to guess probabbly about 15-20 million.

4. There i a little benefit from intelectual property exposure. As stated: this movie i thought was kind of a backdoor pilot for a Harley Quinn movie, and they have that. Honestly it still is a pretty good call for a squeal It should be noted that of all the DC and Marvel movies- the sequal always made more money. .

Which i think goes a point. is the movie way overbudgeted? yeah. I bet Someone is regretting this right now...and there is going to be calls to lower the budget next time.

But that said-all things considered this movie is probabbly going to make i am going to say around 100 million in world wide proffit. Acording to the chart(which i am oging to update this week or next) its almost certainly going to beat AntMan this weekend in terms of global revenue, and will see from there.

So yeah.
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19 Aug 2016 12:53 #49695 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


Silly man. Don't you know that Box Office Mojo is the bible when it comes to box office figures. Like Vogue is to fashion B)

j/k :P

Peace.

/K

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19 Aug 2016 13:47 #49698 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Suicide Squad

kikass2014 wrote:

It's August 18th and according to a WB press release, its at $509M.....but that's probably me being pedantic..... :P

Source: www.comicbookresources.com/article/today...the-500-million-mark


Silly man. Don't you know that Box Office Mojo is the bible when it comes to box office figures. Like Vogue is to fashion B)

j/k :P

Peace.

/K


:) Far be it from me to read a studio press release as gospel (pun intended), but while BOMojo is the de facto standard, it lags -- as Castor says -- for the foreign markets. That's the discrepancy probably....

ElF

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19 Aug 2016 15:25 #49702 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Suicide Squad

Far be it from me to read a studio press release as gospel (pun intended)...


:D LOL nice. Touche :)

Peace.

/K

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