- Posts: 449
- Thank you received: 966
×
Polite reminder: some great stuff being posted here; use the THANK YOU button to reward others for their efforts, and encourage further contributions. It's free, but worth a lot..!
Protecting the models/photographers/creators
22 Jun 2010 00:54 #19479
by five_red
Protecting the models/photographers/creators was created by five_red
I feel a bit cheeky posting this up, since I'm fairly new around here, but I've been posting a few images of models in superheroine costumes on a few threads over the last couple of days and people have (naturally) started to ask where some of them come from. Now I'm happy people are enjoying the pics, but I'm afraid I'm not going to reveal their origin (except to promise they are not stolen from inside any pay site), and I'd like to strongly urge others in the know to bite their lip also.
Here's why...
Let me start by pointing out there are two types of women photographed in these shoots: (a) those who are into the whole superheroine thing, read the comics, watch the movies, and love acting out the fantasy; and (b) those who are just trying to earn a buck, they put on the costume, act out the role, then at the end of the day they take the costume off and go home.
Let me also suggest there are two types of superheroine fan: (a) the majority, who are generally sensitive to the views of those involved in producing heroine photo shoots and videos; and (b) a minority, who feel the need to contact the creators to express their desire (often in quite blunt language) to see their own particular sexual deviation catered for in upcoming work.
A few days ago one noteworthy member of this forum pondered out loud to me in a private conversation whether comments from the latter type discouraged models from returning to do subsequent photo shoots. It got me thinking that perhaps forums like this should start to be a bit more careful over the types of links they allow.
The problem with the photos I posted was they came from a certain social networking site. If I give the link out, not only can everyone download the latest pics (a good thing!) but they can also email the creators and models directly (a bad thing!) Members of the site not only include the models in the photos I posted, but a few familiar faces who've appeared on the Steele's sites etc -- I'm sure they would not welcome an influx of mail from fat balding single males, asking about peril, bondage, burnt matches between toes, and the like.
A few days ago I posted the URL of the profile of one model who had done a Supergirl photo shoot -- with hindsight I think this was a bad idea. Hopefully she won't be getting any unwelcome attention as a result of my actions. In future, here's what I plan to do:
If I post material whose creators (photographers, models, etc) are clearly not *into* the whole comicbook/superheroine 'thang' in the same way people here are, then I will do so in a way that prevents (as reasonably as I can) their contact details from being discovered. In short: if I'm fairly certain the people behind the material don't want to be emailed with all manner of pseudo-erotic heroine fantasies, then I'm not going to reveal where I got the stuff from (unless said site doesn't have any means of tracing their contact details).
Can I end by inviting discussion (and I do realise this is a bit cheeky, given I've only been here 5 mins) that we make it a general rule not to post links which might allow artists/photographers/models/whoever to be contacted, unless we know said person is also a fan of the whole superheroine fantasy genre? This means if a given model has some Supergirl pics on her MySpace page, you link to copies of the images, not directly to the page itself. (Not making it quite so easy for the worst fanboy element, lowers the risk of scaring away artists/photographers/models/etc.)
Just my 2c.
Here's why...
Let me start by pointing out there are two types of women photographed in these shoots: (a) those who are into the whole superheroine thing, read the comics, watch the movies, and love acting out the fantasy; and (b) those who are just trying to earn a buck, they put on the costume, act out the role, then at the end of the day they take the costume off and go home.
Let me also suggest there are two types of superheroine fan: (a) the majority, who are generally sensitive to the views of those involved in producing heroine photo shoots and videos; and (b) a minority, who feel the need to contact the creators to express their desire (often in quite blunt language) to see their own particular sexual deviation catered for in upcoming work.
A few days ago one noteworthy member of this forum pondered out loud to me in a private conversation whether comments from the latter type discouraged models from returning to do subsequent photo shoots. It got me thinking that perhaps forums like this should start to be a bit more careful over the types of links they allow.
The problem with the photos I posted was they came from a certain social networking site. If I give the link out, not only can everyone download the latest pics (a good thing!) but they can also email the creators and models directly (a bad thing!) Members of the site not only include the models in the photos I posted, but a few familiar faces who've appeared on the Steele's sites etc -- I'm sure they would not welcome an influx of mail from fat balding single males, asking about peril, bondage, burnt matches between toes, and the like.
A few days ago I posted the URL of the profile of one model who had done a Supergirl photo shoot -- with hindsight I think this was a bad idea. Hopefully she won't be getting any unwelcome attention as a result of my actions. In future, here's what I plan to do:
If I post material whose creators (photographers, models, etc) are clearly not *into* the whole comicbook/superheroine 'thang' in the same way people here are, then I will do so in a way that prevents (as reasonably as I can) their contact details from being discovered. In short: if I'm fairly certain the people behind the material don't want to be emailed with all manner of pseudo-erotic heroine fantasies, then I'm not going to reveal where I got the stuff from (unless said site doesn't have any means of tracing their contact details).
Can I end by inviting discussion (and I do realise this is a bit cheeky, given I've only been here 5 mins) that we make it a general rule not to post links which might allow artists/photographers/models/whoever to be contacted, unless we know said person is also a fan of the whole superheroine fantasy genre? This means if a given model has some Supergirl pics on her MySpace page, you link to copies of the images, not directly to the page itself. (Not making it quite so easy for the worst fanboy element, lowers the risk of scaring away artists/photographers/models/etc.)
Just my 2c.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
23 Jun 2010 00:26 #19497
by five_red
By that token wouldn't every woman who ever posted her photo on the internet be getting adult messages?
Let's be honest, there is a side to superheroine fantasy fandom (and a rather popular one, given the extraordinary number of DVDs produced on the topic by a certain two companies) that goes well beyond just drooling over girls in spandex, and into stuff involved some pretty dark humiliation and denigration. There are guys who are never happy unless the heroine loses, and loses badly. I think a woman posting up pictures of herself in nothing but a pair of stockings and a basque might reasonably expect to get a certain amount of 'adult' attention, but are the models who pose as Superwoman really prepared for the possibility they might receive emails about tentacle rape, and the like? Some of them may never have read a superhero comicbook in their life before they get asked to pose in costume by a photographer -- do they really understand the myriad of fantasies associated with heroines?
Ultimately anyone who puts enough effort into Google will be able to track a model's contact details down -- I'd just don't think it's helping the superheroine fantasy genre as a whole if we make it easy for them
Replied by five_red on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
I've never been a model or a photographer so I be a bit misguided in saying this:
But once you make the decision to become a professional model and post your profile on the internet via some modeling website, don't you expect to get some creeps (of any stripe) contacting you to do foul/stupid stuff? I know, the hope is for that big, professional agency to view your profile and contact you with a multi-million dollar offer. However, you have to expect for idiots to use your contact information too, don't you? I think this is why models rarely use their real names.
I guess my point is that I don't really know how much "protecting of the models" you are doing by not telling us the site name. They are probably still getting morons contacting them to do this or that.
By that token wouldn't every woman who ever posted her photo on the internet be getting adult messages?
Let's be honest, there is a side to superheroine fantasy fandom (and a rather popular one, given the extraordinary number of DVDs produced on the topic by a certain two companies) that goes well beyond just drooling over girls in spandex, and into stuff involved some pretty dark humiliation and denigration. There are guys who are never happy unless the heroine loses, and loses badly. I think a woman posting up pictures of herself in nothing but a pair of stockings and a basque might reasonably expect to get a certain amount of 'adult' attention, but are the models who pose as Superwoman really prepared for the possibility they might receive emails about tentacle rape, and the like? Some of them may never have read a superhero comicbook in their life before they get asked to pose in costume by a photographer -- do they really understand the myriad of fantasies associated with heroines?
Ultimately anyone who puts enough effort into Google will be able to track a model's contact details down -- I'd just don't think it's helping the superheroine fantasy genre as a whole if we make it easy for them
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
23 Jun 2010 13:49 #19504
by jdrock24
That's a good point about the whole superheroine "bondage" genre. I find that whole thing a bit disturbing (As, I assume, most of the members here).
To answer your question. I have no idea if "every woman who ever posts a picture on the internet" gets adult messages. Not being a woman, I can't speak from their perspective. However, I would think that most models who put themselves "out there" do.
I don't know. I think your coming from the right place with your stance. However, I think it might be a little misguided.
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
I've never been a model or a photographer so I be a bit misguided in saying this:
But once you make the decision to become a professional model and post your profile on the internet via some modeling website, don't you expect to get some creeps (of any stripe) contacting you to do foul/stupid stuff? I know, the hope is for that big, professional agency to view your profile and contact you with a multi-million dollar offer. However, you have to expect for idiots to use your contact information too, don't you? I think this is why models rarely use their real names.
I guess my point is that I don't really know how much "protecting of the models" you are doing by not telling us the site name. They are probably still getting morons contacting them to do this or that.
By that token wouldn't every woman who ever posted her photo on the internet be getting adult messages?
Let's be honest, there is a side to superheroine fantasy fandom (and a rather popular one, given the extraordinary number of DVDs produced on the topic by a certain two companies) that goes well beyond just drooling over girls in spandex, and into stuff involved some pretty dark humiliation and denigration. There are guys who are never happy unless the heroine loses, and loses badly. I think a woman posting up pictures of herself in nothing but a pair of stockings and a basque might reasonably expect to get a certain amount of 'adult' attention, but are the models who pose as Superwoman really prepared for the possibility they might receive emails about tentacle rape, and the like? Some of them may never have read a superhero comicbook in their life before they get asked to pose in costume by a photographer -- do they really understand the myriad of fantasies associated with heroines?
Ultimately anyone who puts enough effort into Google will be able to track a model's contact details down -- I'd just don't think it's helping the superheroine fantasy genre as a whole if we make it easy for them
That's a good point about the whole superheroine "bondage" genre. I find that whole thing a bit disturbing (As, I assume, most of the members here).
To answer your question. I have no idea if "every woman who ever posts a picture on the internet" gets adult messages. Not being a woman, I can't speak from their perspective. However, I would think that most models who put themselves "out there" do.
I don't know. I think your coming from the right place with your stance. However, I think it might be a little misguided.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
23 Jun 2010 23:03 #19507
by five_red
Honestly, I don't consider there are many people naive enough to think that, for any given online community, there isn't more stuff being passed around between its most active members than is shared publicly. I think that's just a fact of internet life, and its as true for superheroines as it is for any other online community.
Some content producers just don't want all their stuff to be broadcast right across the internet, while others just get sick of giving and receiving little or nothing in return. The latter group seem to make up a large contingent, people who used to post publicly but just gave up. Either way, it seems to be just the natural scheme of things. I'm really shocked that people perhaps thought otherwise. Speaking personally, it's not like I ever kept it a secret that the old AE site mutated into a private forum (although, admittedly, I neglected to take out any double page spreads in national newspapers). I do still post the odd pic publicly sometimes, but it's long since stopped being a priority.
When I see a message from a prominent content produce on a forum or web site saying they will no longer be posting further material (coincidentally I saw just such a message only a few days ago), or they mysteriously just vanish, I know they haven't ceased creating work -- they've just moved to a less public venue. Tis the way the world works, unfortunately... Their enthusiasm just gets worn down.
Replied by five_red on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
Members of this forum, you mean? So...doesn't that make this place kinda redundant? I thought the whole point of it was to share stuff like that...
Honestly, I don't consider there are many people naive enough to think that, for any given online community, there isn't more stuff being passed around between its most active members than is shared publicly. I think that's just a fact of internet life, and its as true for superheroines as it is for any other online community.
Some content producers just don't want all their stuff to be broadcast right across the internet, while others just get sick of giving and receiving little or nothing in return. The latter group seem to make up a large contingent, people who used to post publicly but just gave up. Either way, it seems to be just the natural scheme of things. I'm really shocked that people perhaps thought otherwise. Speaking personally, it's not like I ever kept it a secret that the old AE site mutated into a private forum (although, admittedly, I neglected to take out any double page spreads in national newspapers).
I do still post the odd pic publicly sometimes, but it's long since stopped being a priority.When I see a message from a prominent content produce on a forum or web site saying they will no longer be posting further material (coincidentally I saw just such a message only a few days ago), or they mysteriously just vanish, I know they haven't ceased creating work -- they've just moved to a less public venue. Tis the way the world works, unfortunately... Their enthusiasm just gets worn down.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
24 Jun 2010 04:08 #19512
by five_red
Yes, you would being ridiculous. But given we're not talking about adult material here, its rather an apples and oranges comparison, isn't it?
Y'see the long and short of it is this: "if she didn't want me to email her with details of my bondage fetish, then she shouldn't have posted pictures of herself dressed as Wonder Woman" doesn't really cut it with me as an excuse for material that clearly originates from outside the heroine fantasy community.
Now, I assume that Mandi Steele knew what she was getting into when she started, so fair play to those few who emailed her their sordid little fantasies (and the many whose fantasies were far from sordid) -- but if you start posting pictures of women who just dressed up as Batgirl for Halloween, or were merely paid cash by a photographer to pose as Spider-girl for the day, it's just polite and courteous (there's two words you don't hear very often these days) to at least attempt to obfuscate their contact details for the benefit of that tiny minority of fans who can give the rest of us a very bad reputation.
The idea that any woman, merely by putting on a costume, opens herself up to comment from every heroine fan and all their fantasies (much of which is tame, but a minority of which is far from tame) is one I disagree with. Clearly I'm in a minority here.
Replied by five_red on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
Saying to everyone, I’m keeping the link a secret because I’m afraid of what a small majority of you might suggest to these innocent topless girls. I would hope someone would remind me that…Perhaps…I was being ridiculous.
Yes, you would being ridiculous. But given we're not talking about adult material here, its rather an apples and oranges comparison, isn't it?
Y'see the long and short of it is this: "if she didn't want me to email her with details of my bondage fetish, then she shouldn't have posted pictures of herself dressed as Wonder Woman" doesn't really cut it with me as an excuse for material that clearly originates from outside the heroine fantasy community.
Now, I assume that Mandi Steele knew what she was getting into when she started, so fair play to those few who emailed her their sordid little fantasies (and the many whose fantasies were far from sordid) -- but if you start posting pictures of women who just dressed up as Batgirl for Halloween, or were merely paid cash by a photographer to pose as Spider-girl for the day, it's just polite and courteous (there's two words you don't hear very often these days) to at least attempt to obfuscate their contact details for the benefit of that tiny minority of fans who can give the rest of us a very bad reputation.
The idea that any woman, merely by putting on a costume, opens herself up to comment from every heroine fan and all their fantasies (much of which is tame, but a minority of which is far from tame) is one I disagree with. Clearly I'm in a minority here.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
24 Jun 2010 20:51 #19520
by Woodclaw
Actually I agree 100%, friends of mine who are into Cos-Play usually reports similar problems (one had to fend off a Facebook stalker after she uploaded some photo of hers in a Rogue costume).
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
The idea that any woman, merely by putting on a costume, opens herself up to comment from every heroine fan and all their fantasies (much of which is tame, but a minority of which is far from tame) is one I disagree with. Clearly I'm in a minority here.
Actually I agree 100%, friends of mine who are into Cos-Play usually reports similar problems (one had to fend off a Facebook stalker after she uploaded some photo of hers in a Rogue costume).
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
25 Jun 2010 04:52 #19526
by Alexxx
I'll let Kelly give the details about why Mandi stopped if he cares to. But he told me without a lot of details and as far I know know it had nothing to do with creeps emailing. News flash, when you email Mandisteele.com or Adarasteele.com you don't get Mandi or Adara
First off I don't see this as the type of forum with a lot of those heroine rape guys on it. It attracts guys who like powerful women coming out on top and there is no XXX content.
Secondly, What I really see this thread turning into is a bunch of guys trying to play protector of "poor helpless women." These are big girls people, adults (I hope) and as adults should know what they are getting into and how to evaluate how to be careful and what their limits in revealing personal info are. I'm sure some are nieve but they get a few creep emails and live and learn from it.
Its hard to come by an adult these days that does not understand that by putting their pictures or likeness or whatever out there on the net that they are not taking a risk. Whether it be the company you apply for seeing some drunk low IQ co-ed doing body shots off you or attracting a loser who sees you fully clothed in a Wonder Woman outfit and decides you like BDSM and emails you.
I'm not condoning these guys who are out of line but at the same time someone would have to be pretty dense to toss their likeness out there for public consumption and be shocked to get a few creep emails, regardless of whether they give out their email or not. The halloween and comic con types get a bit of leeway here as they don't seek the exposure, yet when you pose of some stranger these days you just have to assume it could pop up somewhere in cyber land. Welcome to the 21st century.
And producers, if you don't like your models asking for more money to deal with the creeps then don't use their names on your sites. If they insist they want their names used as part of the deal then they should know the risks.
Replied by Alexxx on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
hi five-red and everybody,
i agree with what u say i know girl who played mandi is ok but unforunely 4 us superheroine fans that is in her past i wasnt going 2 mention about her here and i still dont her reason why she stoped play our fav superhero but totally repsect her and family privacy along with all other models, photographers wives girlfriends of us fans 2 who shows photos/clips here
my two thoughts and i hope have affend anyone by sayong this
dave
I'll let Kelly give the details about why Mandi stopped if he cares to. But he told me without a lot of details and as far I know know it had nothing to do with creeps emailing. News flash, when you email Mandisteele.com or Adarasteele.com you don't get Mandi or Adara
First off I don't see this as the type of forum with a lot of those heroine rape guys on it. It attracts guys who like powerful women coming out on top and there is no XXX content.
Secondly, What I really see this thread turning into is a bunch of guys trying to play protector of "poor helpless women." These are big girls people, adults (I hope) and as adults should know what they are getting into and how to evaluate how to be careful and what their limits in revealing personal info are. I'm sure some are nieve but they get a few creep emails and live and learn from it.
Its hard to come by an adult these days that does not understand that by putting their pictures or likeness or whatever out there on the net that they are not taking a risk. Whether it be the company you apply for seeing some drunk low IQ co-ed doing body shots off you or attracting a loser who sees you fully clothed in a Wonder Woman outfit and decides you like BDSM and emails you.
I'm not condoning these guys who are out of line but at the same time someone would have to be pretty dense to toss their likeness out there for public consumption and be shocked to get a few creep emails, regardless of whether they give out their email or not. The halloween and comic con types get a bit of leeway here as they don't seek the exposure, yet when you pose of some stranger these days you just have to assume it could pop up somewhere in cyber land. Welcome to the 21st century.
And producers, if you don't like your models asking for more money to deal with the creeps then don't use their names on your sites. If they insist they want their names used as part of the deal then they should know the risks.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
25 Jun 2010 16:15 #19529
by five_red
I think everyone acknowledges you can't stop creeps from emailing women entirely. The issue is more: do we, as a community, aid and abet that? (A friend, with an almost supernatural ability to find heroine links, pointed out to me the details posted recently in ImageBank were reposted within 24 hours on a forum dealing with heroine defeat/humiliation.)
For me it's a matter of responsibility, and trust. It is perfectly possible to take material and re-host it to make the source fairly anonymous. 99% of web users are lazy -- they don't act on something unless you shove it directly under their nose. We get our cool pics, and the women have a greatly reduced chance of getting pestered by the wrong type of fan (or even knowing heroine fan sites exist at all). But for some people this clearly isn't enough, begging the question: why is it so absolutely vitally important that everyone know the true origin of the material?
Some women dress up as Supergirl because they wish to specifically produce work targeted at this community. Some women dress up as Supergirl for a giggle, and because it was the last party costume in the shop that fitted. As a community, I personally think it would be nice if we demonstrated we make a distinction between the two. Of course, any such distinction would need to be largely self policing, and the only way to do that is to air opinions in public and see where everyone stands...
Anyway, apologies to the mods if I've caused a fuss -- I honestly didn't know this was such a contentious issue. I have to say I've learned quite a lot from some of the responses here. So, unless someone asks me a direct question, I'm going to shut up now
Replied by five_red on topic Re: Protecting the models/photographers/creators
However, this being the internet, and the anonimity it offers these creeps, a model, who gives out her contact information, has got to expect some creepy e-mails, doesn't she?
I think everyone acknowledges you can't stop creeps from emailing women entirely. The issue is more: do we, as a community, aid and abet that? (A friend, with an almost supernatural ability to find heroine links, pointed out to me the details posted recently in ImageBank were reposted within 24 hours on a forum dealing with heroine defeat/humiliation.)
For me it's a matter of responsibility, and trust. It is perfectly possible to take material and re-host it to make the source fairly anonymous. 99% of web users are lazy -- they don't act on something unless you shove it directly under their nose. We get our cool pics, and the women have a greatly reduced chance of getting pestered by the wrong type of fan (or even knowing heroine fan sites exist at all). But for some people this clearly isn't enough, begging the question: why is it so absolutely vitally important that everyone know the true origin of the material?
Some women dress up as Supergirl because they wish to specifically produce work targeted at this community. Some women dress up as Supergirl for a giggle, and because it was the last party costume in the shop that fitted. As a community, I personally think it would be nice if we demonstrated we make a distinction between the two. Of course, any such distinction would need to be largely self policing, and the only way to do that is to air opinions in public and see where everyone stands...
Anyway, apologies to the mods if I've caused a fuss -- I honestly didn't know this was such a contentious issue. I have to say I've learned quite a lot from some of the responses here. So, unless someone asks me a direct question, I'm going to shut up now
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.102 seconds