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I was wondering...

04 Sep 2006 23:17 #6718 by Grayface
I was wondering... was created by Grayface
How strong would a super strong woman need to be to throw a car in to space? assume of course the car would (or at least part of it) make it out of the atmosphere

I was thinking in reasonable terms of a world with super women but with with levels of strength ranging from being able to lift 25 tons to may be 2000 tons.

Normally I just go all out and imaging women with near limitless strength, but lately I been practicing some moderation. But I'm curious I know we got a lot of smart people hanging around.

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05 Sep 2006 01:10 #6719 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic I was wondering...
Throwing it from ground level isn't going to do any good. Remember what the Columbia shuttle looked like as it burned up on re-entry? That's what the car would look like going up if it had enough velocity to make it out of the atmosphere. Especially as the highest velocity is at greatest air density near the surface. Vaporized in seconds.

I also think her strength would be the lesser of problems... moving one's body and arms at the 10,000 miles per hour or more that is necessary to accelerate the car would be even harder than being strong enough to do it. Nerve impulses, even if we take license with superconducting nerves, don't move fast enough.

Not to mention that the car would disintegrate from the massive acceleration before it burned up.

The only way is to be able to fly, and accelerate the car at something less than 10G's (windows and seats might pop out at that accleration, but most of the car would hang together) to sub-orbital speeds at very high altitude (very thin air, less air friction) before giving it a final gentle toss.

Physics is a bitch. Doesn't let you do the fun stuff.

Shadar

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05 Sep 2006 01:18 #6720 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic I was wondering...
Practically speaking, she could not have thrown his car into orbit.
Drag is approx equal to Veolocity cubed.

Atlas missles can launch 5000 lb payloads into geo-staionary orbit. They can launch a little more into lower orbits (like polar spy birds out of VAFB).

The Atlas uses one one substainer engine and two booster engines. Typically, at about 120 seconds into the launch it drops the two outside engines and continues on with the subtainer engine.

Max Q which is the greatest pressure on the Vehicle generally occurs around 60 thousand feet. When the space shuttle launches, It goes up with full power, then throttles back to I think 85% power and then after max Q is passed, it throttles back up to avoid tearing itself apart.

In both of the above senarios, there is more or less constant thrust until
either the engines stage (in the Atlas), of the main engine is throttled back
(as in the Shuttle). The accleration and the vehicles velocity is ever increasing due to the vehicle getting lighter with each lb of fuel being burned.

To get his car into orbit without totally destroying it she could have flown it up to at least 125 thousand feet, got it up to speed and then given it a little "toss" from there.

400 miles high is a pretty low Earth orbit and that would be around 2 million feet high. The best way for her to get it there would be just to fly it up at a constant acceleration not going too fast to either crush the car or rip it up from the drag pressures. She would just continue accelerationg until she was at the right height and speed for a low Earth Orbit and then let it go.

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05 Sep 2006 01:27 #6721 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic I was wondering...
Looks like Ace and I wrote our replies at about the same time. More or less the same answer too.

Shadar

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05 Sep 2006 01:38 #6722 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic I was wondering...
I was suprised when I clicked "Submit" to see yours there. What is it they say about "Great minds thinking alike"?

I think on the shuttle they take off at 110% power (George Allen must have worked on the original team) and then at some point they pull back to 85% power until Max Q is safetly passed then back to to 100% continous power. I am just to lazy for this discussion to actually look it up!

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05 Sep 2006 21:29 #6726 by Grayface
Replied by Grayface on topic I was wondering...
Wow, man you guys are great! Thanks. I kinda knew the answer in the back of my mind. I mean if a most meteorites burn up in the atmosphere it's gonna have to work the opposite way too. makes sense, even if I don't like the answer, not that I have much choise in that fact, but then thats just what fantasies are for.

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04 Oct 2006 00:06 #6947 by WhitePaw
Replied by WhitePaw on topic I was wondering...
And I wondered why my lil' ears were burnin'.

<sigh> So now everybody's a rocket scientist eh? <snicker> Liked it better when y'all were comedians. Even a leming herd of critics was safer to life n' limb.

Cars can too be tossed into orbit fellas. You just need to use both sides of your brain at once. It's totally undergrad. Just start by considering the rocket equation and the assumptions that it makes. Drop a few and work it out from there.

That's all I'm ever gonna say on the subject.

And fellas? If you've never been paid to recite the rocket equation by heart--you can't call yourself a real rocket scientist. That's pretty much the test.

-Paw

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04 Oct 2006 01:55 #6950 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic I was wondering...
Presumption from the question was a standing toss. That means that the distance where you can be accelerating the car is limited to how far our lady can sweep her hands without moving her feet. No flying. Got to be at or near sea level.

It was on that basis that I assumed the required acceleration (given that her arm sweep can't be more than a meter and a half or so) to reach orbital velocity would tear the vehicle apart. Also that initial velocity at ground level would burn the car up.

I'm guessing you'd need 25,000 to 30,000 miles per hour as it leaves her fingertips. Maybe a lot more. But it would be nice to see you work the math, given you seem to think its possible within those constraints.

Shadar

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04 Oct 2006 02:40 #6951 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic I was wondering...
F=MA Where F is the force, M the mass and A the acceleration

F in a rocket motor is equal to (dM/dt)V rel

Next question professor.

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04 Oct 2006 15:33 #6954 by ultragirl
Replied by ultragirl on topic I was wondering...
Can she hammer throw it? If the car could hold together?

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04 Oct 2006 16:27 #6955 by WhitePaw
Replied by WhitePaw on topic I was wondering...
Well, there's always the Hollywood way. Just chuck the car into orbit...along w/ any regards for the laws of physics. This is a fantasy forum. Getcher physix elsewhere.


Although there is a way to blow a car into orbit.
Oops. I've sed too much.
:twisted:

Wuv,
-Paw.

P.S. And I know ya had to look up the equation, and its a free forum. Doesn't count for nuthin :)

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04 Oct 2006 17:12 #6956 by conceptfan
Replied by conceptfan on topic I was wondering...
Would it be possible for an ubergirl to throw Mr. Paw into orbit? If so, how soon?

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05 Oct 2006 02:42 #6960 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic I was wondering...
There are over 1600 reg users on this site. What in the world would lead you to think that you are the only one who ever studied Physics with full Calculus, if indeed you actually have.

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