Amount

Supervillains versus superheroines

05 Nov 2019 19:25 #65471 by shadar
Supervillains versus superheroines was created by shadar
There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar
The following user(s) said Thank You: kshoo, Markiehoe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Legend of SWM
  • Legend of SWM
More
05 Nov 2019 19:42 #65472 by veggicidal
Replied by veggicidal on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
It's not really so much the good or bad for me. A big part of it is the costume, the sexuality of being powerful and confident, followed by the girl getting to know her powers and showing off what she can do. Bad girls are probably a lot easier to scratch that itch than good girls, which might explain some of the bias.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 20:06 #65474 by Kamelmann
Replied by Kamelmann on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Whilst I am a complete sucker for bad girls, superheroine stories are still awesome and I love reading them, :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sarge395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 20:12 #65476 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Let’s make a list shall we....

Bad

*any one who flaunts powers that has been bestowed upon them.
*any one who uses their power recklessly
*any one who uses their power for selfish purposes
*any one who uses their power for revenge
*any one who uses their sexuality deliberately to make others do something she wants
*any one that kills maims or injures regardless of the circumstance.

Good

*any one that is discreet
*any one who is humble
*any one who uses their gifts for noble purposes 
*any one that doesn’t have selfish thoughts or desires
*any one who values other lives over their own

Either list can be substantial - I guess the point I’m going for is.....even if you think your girl is a goody two shoes.....she’s probably not. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 21:00 #65477 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote: There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar


I think I petty much caused this when I pointed this trend out as I talked about an old story of mine with a "good girl wants to be a superheroine" type of main character. I didn't really mean the comparison between "good but flawed" and "absolute evil". But I did participate in several workshops and found that the winning story usually featured a clearly evil ubergirl as the main character. Of course there are exceptions. But not just the workshops, just looking at any "What's your favorite story" thread or mentioning of "classics of the genre" and you'll find they're almost exclusively about bad ubergirls.
Furthermore I noticed that the fans of those evil characters were quite vocal about wanting to see the next chapter of their favorite story and engaged in discussions about what happens next while other stories barely got any recognition when a new chapter was there (yes I am talking about myself here, guess why I noticed that?). So it's not really a new thing, but has been for a while - probably since the beginning of SWM.

Back then I was told that this was probably a very vocal minority talking about their evil-girl preferences while the rest just didn't want to talk about that stuff. That's why I tried to make a point for anybody prefering good-ish girls over the evil ones to actually voice that preferrence by giving positive feedback to authors that write those stories. Because new authors will be discouraged by a lack of feedback and stop writing.

As for Shadar... I don't think your story shouldn't depend on this discussion. You're quite the well-known author and your story will find an audience even if it doesn't feature evil monsters as the main characters.

New Deviantart, setup in progress
njae2.deviantart.com/

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 22:05 #65479 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
I like Good Girls doing Heroic things.
Those stories are few and far between.
My least favorite story trope that I see again and again is Good Girl goes Bad.
If I ever see another one like that again it would be too soon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: shadar, kshoo, erikphandel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Markiehoe
  • Markiehoe's Avatar
  • Online
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
05 Nov 2019 22:17 #65480 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

njae wrote:

shadar wrote: There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar


I think I petty much caused this when I pointed this trend out as I talked about an old story of mine with a "good girl wants to be a superheroine" type of main character. I didn't really mean the comparison between "good but flawed" and "absolute evil". But I did participate in several workshops and found that the winning story usually featured a clearly evil ubergirl as the main character. Of course there are exceptions. But not just the workshops, just looking at any "What's your favorite story" thread or mentioning of "classics of the genre" and you'll find they're almost exclusively about bad ubergirls.
Furthermore I noticed that the fans of those evil characters were quite vocal about wanting to see the next chapter of their favorite story and engaged in discussions about what happens next while other stories barely got any recognition when a new chapter was there (yes I am talking about myself here, guess why I noticed that?). So it's not really a new thing, but has been for a while - probably since the beginning of SWM.

Back then I was told that this was probably a very vocal minority talking about their evil-girl preferences while the rest just didn't want to talk about that stuff. That's why I tried to make a point for anybody prefering good-ish girls over the evil ones to actually voice that preferrence by giving positive feedback to authors that write those stories. Because new authors will be discouraged by a lack of feedback and stop writing.

As for Shadar... I don't think your story shouldn't depend on this discussion. You're quite the well-known author and your story will find an audience even if it doesn't feature evil monsters as the main characters.


Maybe it's not a drift in the readership but rather just something I'm becoming aware of. And yes, your comments on another thread crystallized my thinking, but I see evidence of it in many threads. Which is why I wanted to open up the discussion a bit wider. 

I'm not going to change what I write based on this discussion, but its more of a thought whether I need to start posting to my own website as well as posting here. I've been exclusively posting stories here for a number of years now, and my site hasn't been updated or promoted in nearly a decade. 

I'd rather not mess with my own site. It's a lot of work to update and promote. I'd much rather just keep posting on SWM. I'm just sticking my finger in the air here to see what way the wind is blowing to decide if the primary thrust of interest and enthusiasm in the SWM has drifted in a different direction than I have. Things like that happen and its nobody's fault. 

Or maybe nothing has changed and its just me having unnecessary second thoughts. But I've been around doing this long enough (since before the Internet was invented) to see all kinds of changes and to adapt when I have to. 

Shadar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Legend of SWM
  • Legend of SWM
More
05 Nov 2019 23:39 #65483 by TheOne25
Replied by TheOne25 on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
I think anyone should post anything Superwoman related that they want to. OK, maybe people like the bad supergirl more than the good supergirl but that doesn't mean people don't like the good girls, in my mind. I enjoy the best of both worlds and I dislike seeing a question on whether we should still upload stories on superheroines or not. 

Personally I do lean towards stories about bad girls more than good girls but it was the amazing stories and workshops and discussions about good girls and bad girls that made me love reading on this site and I hope it doesn't change. 

I see superwomenmania.com, not goodsuperwomenmania and not badsuperwomanmania.com. We love both superheroines and supervillains :D 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 23:44 #65484 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote: There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar


I'm trying extremely hard not to use expletives or profanities here, but I have to warn you all that my patience is running very very thin.

Every few years this issue pops up in a way or another, usually because someone feels that his last "good girl" piece is sliding behind in terms of favorites/views/comments. The problem is that none of these is an actual measure of how beloved a story really is. Why? Because a large chunk of our community doesn't use either comments or favorites and hits are extremely misleading since a long story might accumulate more hits because a reader necessitates multiple sitting to go through it.
There's also the issue of persistence, which is extremely variable and I won't touch here.

As far as I can tell there is more than a little bias to the idea that bad girls are inherently easier to write or digest because of how easy they lend themselves to flaunt powers and sexuality. Bad girls are easier to handle in the short run because it's very easy to establish their dominance, but you can find yourself in a pretty big mess where you can't move the story forward because the main character has been established as way too powerful and devastating. Simply put when the baseline response of your main character to any problem or obstacle is to obliterate it and she has the power to do so, it becomes pretty hard to find a way to challenge her with anything except boredom. Writers who can accomplish such a feat have my utmost respect and admiration (a special shout out to Dru, who managed to break the mold with O-Girl).
Good girls, on the other hand, are a bit harder to handle in the short run, but pick up speed in the long one. In a short and self-contained piece, it's often hard to either establish a threat so big that the main character needs to go all out or flaunt her own abilities. At the same time, it's much easier to establish good characters as a part of a shared universe, allowing for more complex interactions, establishing challenges that can't be simply overpowered and saving the revelation of how powerful they are for later.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
The following user(s) said Thank You: kshoo, RD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 01:59 #65489 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote: There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar


I'm so far behind on reading stories here it's not funny ... and I used to comment regulary but it's been awhile.  I need to do better.  I did just moved/finally sold my old house, and i'm getting things squared away so hopefully I'll get back to keeping up/commenting.

First story commenting is so low to begin with that I wouldn't try to use it as a barometer of anything. I mean it's prety much the only one you have ... but I am not sure it's all that reliable.  Just a few repsponsive fans of some sub-genre can easily make it seem like the entire site is vividly behind something.

The best story i've read recently was  Spoonmaster's Atypical Vacation and that's solidly in the "good girl" camp for me.   I don't see enjoying sex as something that would alone make a character a "bad girl" these days (doubly so when the character only wants voluntary sex from people she loves), and certainly not in this context when a good portion of the bad girls rack up body counts not notches in the bed post.  Maybe others score that story differently?  I certainly enjoyed it.  (Spoonmaster sorry I didn't comment!!! I read it fairly late too... )

I'd really miss it if people didn't post good/positive stories here.  I also think that every author has to find their own motivation and what they're looking for.  If you've been happy so far, I wouldn't care if 99% of the site was bad girl ... if that 1% was enough to keep you going, keep doing it. It's not like I've heard any bad girl fan complaining about "all those stupid good girl stories", they just seem to not comment on them.  (which is exactly what they should do.)

I find renders of women with absurdly large balloon tits stupid... but it's my personal preference so I don't comment or rain on the parade of people who like that sort of thing. I don't even think they're bad/weird/odd/deviant.  They just aren't me.  This is just an axis to me like no muscle/some/bodybuilder/super giant muscle scale that you can easily find people here in all the camps.  All these these things should be welcome here.  When I see something I don't like, I move on.  If I see something I like, I try to stop and comment (or at least hit the thank you).

I enjoy good girl stories more ... but I like some bad girl stories too.

Some bad girl stories really work for me ... but for reasons I don't always  get, some don't work for me at all and I just stop reading.  It's not even the level of violence as I've enjoyed some pretty violent stories..

I'm not that great of a writer, and when I write it's because I have a story that won't get out of my head and I have free time to let it grow enough to try to capture.  I enjoyed some positive feedback, but I don't think any of it was enough to make me write.  I didn't really stop writing due to lack of feedback, I stopped due to lack of time/burned out.  OTH, maybe if I'd been regularly getting "hey where's the sequel to X"/etc maybe I would have written more?  Dunno.  I did have someone on DA after me to finish a storyline but it wasn't what I felt like writing .... so despite his very positive/frequent feedback it didn't motivate me to write something I didn't feel like writing.

I'm pretty certain if my stories were removed from here no one would notice (not even me).   Not really germane to the conversation -- except until someone is regularly complaining how horrible and out of place they are, I see no reason to remove them at all.   I don't get njae's reaction -- but I don't have to. All I have to do is repect his right to control his work and live his own life -- which I do.

It's just that every once in awhile (usually on DA) someone stumbles across one of my stories and sends me a note/leaves a comment.  That always makes my day.

In general I find this topic interesting from a sociological perspective, but don't think the general reaction or % reaction from SWM readers should govern if you post a story or not ... the site isn't "for evil Super Girls only", even if it happens to be the dominent preference.  (I'm not even sure that's actually true.)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 02:13 #65490 by erikphandel
Replied by erikphandel on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
I don't know man, my stories did pretty well, even the first ones that had no villains. I much prefer good supergirls than bad, though I do appreciate both

I think it's just a matter of good writing. If your story is well written, it will do well, no matter the topic. I mean, Supergel was all the rage here, and that was mostly good supergirls wasn't it
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jabbrwock

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 02:43 #65491 by Gincognifo
Replied by Gincognifo on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Here's a random thought.

Sites like SWM came about to address a general lack of superwoman content. To some extent, wider popular culture has stepped up to address that lack in recent years: although still woefully outnumbered by the men, we have more superwomen than ever in comics and movies, and on television. But for the most part they are heroines.

Maybe the reason bad girl content *seems* to get more attention (whatever that means on a site where 90-99% of users are silent) is because that content of that type isn't found elsewhere.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Woodclaw

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Gincognifo
  • Gincognifo's Avatar
  • Away
  • SWM - Junior
  • SWM - Junior
More
06 Nov 2019 02:52 #65493 by willow
Replied by willow on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
I prefer a mix really. I enjoy good girls doing heroic deeds just as much as I enjoy bad girls using their powers for their own selfish desire.

I also feel that when someone gets as much power as some of these girls do in the stories on this website that the concept of what is good and evil for them starts to go out the window. Kind of like that famous quote by President Nixon, "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 03:30 #65494 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Write bad supergirl stories if u want.
Write good supergirl stories if u want.
Read bad supergirl stories if u like them.
Read good supergirl stories if you like them.
i write and read both kinds myself.
the world, and this site, is better with variety.

elF
The following user(s) said Thank You: Woodclaw, Raa, mastadon, d_k_c, Markiehoe, cbaby, TwiceOnThursdays

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • lfan
  • lfan's Avatar
  • Away
  • SWM - Administrator
  • SWM - Administrator
More
06 Nov 2019 05:00 #65495 by Pepper
Replied by Pepper on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

Woodclaw wrote: As far as I can tell there is more than a little bias to the idea that bad girls are inherently easier to write or digest because of how easy they lend themselves to flaunt powers and sexuality. Bad girls are easier to handle in the short run because it's very easy to establish their dominance, but you can find yourself in a pretty big mess where you can't move the story forward because the main character has been established as way too powerful and devastating. Simply put when the baseline response of your main character to any problem or obstacle is to obliterate it and she has the power to do so, it becomes pretty hard to find a way to challenge her with anything except boredom..

Very well put, but I also think it's a bit more complicated than just "good" or "bad". There are powerful characters who cause mayhem and destruction just for the joy of doing so, or who demand acts of loyalty and worship from the rest of humanity. You could have a greedy ubergirl breaking into bank vaults, or a hedonistic one quickly seducing and discarding as many men as she pleases. To be a good story there has to be a reason why she's doing these things. Why break into a bank vault; what's she going to spend the money on? There's not much point in buying a Ferrari when you can jump into the air and fly anyplace you want to go. I had an idea once for a story about a girl who gains super powers and takes over the city where she lives and declares herself mayor. Instead of the power trip she wanted, everybody expects her to attend zoning meetings and approve budget requests.

I think the bad girl tropes, women who just take whatever they want, are an easy way of providing fetish fuel. The really good stories are about characters finding out who they are and what they want. One of the most commented on stories on this site has to be "LaPorte Caves", with much of the discussion centering on whether the main character was good or bad.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 06:50 #65496 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I'm pretty certain if my stories were removed from here no one would notice (not even me).   Not really germane to the conversation -- except until someone is regularly complaining how horrible and out of place they are, I see no reason to remove them at all.   I don't get njae's reaction -- but I don't have to. All I have to do is repect his right to control his work and live his own life -- which I do.


I had my reasons. My opinion regarding my own stories reaching absolute zero being only one of them. I actually took my sweet time doing so as the decision had meen made a lot earlier. But this is not the place for that kind of topic.

Erikhandel wrote: I mean, Supergel was all the rage here, and that was mostly good supergirls wasn't it?


No. It wasn't. The main character Sarah may have been a good girl even becoming a heroine etc. But the show was quickly stolen by her sister Emma who's definitely on the evil side of things - not complete monster evil, but selfish bitch with superpowers. And the story rewards such selfish behavior a LOT more even when it doesn't make sense. Steal some gel from your sister? Congrats you got an upgraded version while it would make more sense for the gel to be weaker/used up. You wanna power up your boyfriend to spice up the sex? He gets severely burnt and hates you now, no sex for you in this story - but hey you can still play superhero when your sister sinks a ship or something. Speaking of which - of course she can use the gel during sex - the no male super rule will make sure that you don't accidentally create a heartbroken supervillain - event though Emma had no way of knowing the gel wouldn't affect him at all....

Gotta admit I liked the story, which is why I can clearly say where it took a direction I didn't particularly like. This may or may not be an example about being vocal or remain silent about your preferences. Because while I may not have liked that direction, the (vocal) majority seemed to prefer Emma's antics to Sarah's storyline. So who can blame Monty to go ahead with that?

New Deviantart, setup in progress
njae2.deviantart.com/

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 08:21 #65497 by Idylls
Replied by Idylls on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote: There has a been a theme rattling around in several threads here lately, which has sensitized me to a subject I'd previously ignored. 

My premise is that the majority of SWM story readers these days put a high value on "bad girl" stories and give less (or little) attention to traditional forms of superheroine "good girl" fiction. 

I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

As opposed to trying to tease that out of other discussions, I thought I'd ask it directly of people who routinely read SWM stories -- is the most popular (as in, read and commented on) form of superhuman fiction on the SWM now focused on "bad girls"?

Shadar


Bad girls are more popular.simply because it is an easy source of fuel for the domination fetish. It is so popular that when I criticized one such work for going on that same worn out path of getting powers, using and abusing such powers because they can get away with it and basically can't be stopped with me predicting that the ending will be the "story" fizzling out because it is lacking of challenge/conflict, being repetitive and boring, or of simply being written into a corner; I got jumped upon by this same community. 

That showed me. I remember njae backed me up then and when he decided to take his stories and leave, the message was clear.

PS. To njae
I haven't thanked you back then so let me do so now. Thanks. I didn't reply to you on the other thread because I fear I might just go out and lecture you. I really did like your "Blind Date" and said so in the comments. I find Michelle Memento unreadable though. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 08:54 #65498 by Idylls
Replied by Idylls on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

Gincognifo wrote: Here's a random thought.

Sites like SWM came about to address a general lack of superwoman content. To some extent, wider popular culture has stepped up to address that lack in recent years: although still woefully outnumbered by the men, we have more superwomen than ever in comics and movies, and on television. But for the most part they are heroines.

Maybe the reason bad girl content *seems* to get more attention (whatever that means on a site where 90-99% of users are silent) is because that content of that type isn't found elsewhere.


Bad girl content is more prevalent. Diana the Valkyrie, amysconquest, Saradas. Even good girl stuff indulge in it because guess what the main villain is, a female. Peril sites outnumber them though.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 09:29 #65499 by Idylls
Replied by Idylls on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote:
I'm trying to decide if that's true, because everything I've got in the works would be considered in the "good but sometimes flawed supergirl" direction. It brings up the question of whether it makes sense to post stories here that don't have a "killer bad girl" core. 

Shadar


While I may not agree with you with a number of things, post them here. Understand that just because you write a good girl story that it will be automatically be liked by a demographic or that a bad girl story will be automatically reviled. If it follows just some worn out stereotypical tropes then you'll hear it. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 09:45 #65500 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

willow wrote: I prefer a mix really. I enjoy good girls doing heroic deeds just as much as I enjoy bad girls using their powers for their own selfish desire. 

I also feel that when someone gets as much power as some of these girls do in the stories on this website that the concept of what is good and evil for them starts to go out the window. Kind of like that famous quote by President Nixon, "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."


While I agree that morality in general is something that change over time, I believe that saying "X does it so it's not illegal" it's really what I consider the root of evil and self-justification.

Gincognifo wrote: Here's a random thought.

Sites like SWM came about to address a general lack of superwoman content. To some extent, wider popular culture has stepped up to address that lack in recent years: although still woefully outnumbered by the men, we have more superwomen than ever in comics and movies, and on television. But for the most part they are heroines.

Maybe the reason bad girl content *seems* to get more attention (whatever that means on a site where 90-99% of users are silent) is because that content of that type isn't found elsewhere.

lfan wrote: Write bad supergirl stories if u want.
Write good supergirl stories if u want.
Read bad supergirl stories if u like them.
Read good supergirl stories if you like them.
i write and read both kinds myself.
the world, and this site, is better with variety.

elF


Bless you guys!

Pepper wrote:

Woodclaw wrote: As far as I can tell there is more than a little bias to the idea that bad girls are inherently easier to write or digest because of how easy they lend themselves to flaunt powers and sexuality. Bad girls are easier to handle in the short run because it's very easy to establish their dominance, but you can find yourself in a pretty big mess where you can't move the story forward because the main character has been established as way too powerful and devastating. Simply put when the baseline response of your main character to any problem or obstacle is to obliterate it and she has the power to do so, it becomes pretty hard to find a way to challenge her with anything except boredom..

Very well put, but I also think it's a bit more complicated than just "good" or "bad". There are powerful characters who cause mayhem and destruction just for the joy of doing so, or who demand acts of loyalty and worship from the rest of humanity. You could have a greedy ubergirl breaking into bank vaults, or a hedonistic one quickly seducing and discarding as many men as she pleases. To be a good story there has to be a reason why she's doing these things. Why break into a bank vault; what's she going to spend the money on? There's not much point in buying a Ferrari when you can jump into the air and fly anyplace you want to go. I had an idea once for a story about a girl who gains super powers and takes over the city where she lives and declares herself mayor. Instead of the power trip she wanted, everybody expects her to attend zoning meetings and approve budget requests.

I think the bad girl tropes, women who just take whatever they want, are an easy way of providing fetish fuel. The really good stories are about characters finding out who they are and what they want. One of the most commented on stories on this site has to be "LaPorte Caves", with much of the discussion centering on whether the main character was good or bad.


We have a story based on a similar premise: Armada (Part 1 , 2 and 3 ).
As for the rest... I think that dwelling into motivations is one of the most interesting, but also hardest, things to do in a story. In fact, I often struggled to provide solid motivations for many characters, both good and evil, because of scale. I can totally see simple motivations working, but I have problems when I need to go into the really big arena. I can easily find a way work with characters like the Central City Rogues, but I have enormous difficulties with someone like Lex Luthor or Superman.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Time to create page: 0.137 seconds