Amount

Supervillains versus superheroines

11 Nov 2019 16:43 #65579 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Njae, good girl, vs bad girl bad girl doesn’t matter as much as good story vs bad story. 

There’s a lot of work that goes into a story - and writing a coherent story takes some time, and most importantly practice. For me personally, because I like writing other non superheroine fiction, writing a story from beginning to end is good practice. Everytime I post a story, I read it while it’s in the que - and I’m like that’s, misspelled ,I need to elaborate on that or would this character really say this?  Even after all that, I roll my eyes at my own finished product.

My point is, while people might tend to vote for bad girls -  it might be because the best authors write about bad girls. Not being able realize that, might be one of your biggest hurdles.

If a story doesn’t gain traction you have a choice, you can blame the universe, or you can blame yourself.

My next story should be an 8 part story - I’ll post it sometime in the new year, it’s going to be about a good girl. If it’s not well received, I’m not going to blame preferences, or other people......it’ll be on me.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sarge395, Woodclaw, TheOne25

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Nov 2019 17:44 #65581 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

d_k_c wrote:
There’s a lot of work that goes into a story - and writing a coherent story takes some time, and most importantly practice. For me personally, because I like writing other non superheroine fiction, writing a story from beginning to end is good practice. Everytime I post a story, I read it while it’s in the que - and I’m like that’s, misspelled ,I need to elaborate on that or would this character really say this?  Even after all that, I roll my eyes at my own finished product.

.


Oh, OH... that sounds just like me. No matter how much I proofread a story, when I've submitted it to SWM and before it's published, I find all kinds of things that drive me crazy, but it's too late to fix without creating more work for Woodclaw. 

I have reduced this a lot by exporting to a different file format and then reading it on a different device than I wrote it on, and with much larger fonts. For instance, I write on a Mac but I do a final proofread on my iPad. That helps a lot, but it still isn't a 100%. 

Amazing how blind we become to our own prose by the time we've wrestled a story into shape. In the ideal world, I should get it as done as its going to be, and then let it sit for a month or two before going back to read it anew. That would work, probably, but who has extra months to let finished stories sit around?

Which is why traditional publishing as Editors, who take control of the final text. They are a special breed who can massage a thousand details in a manuscript while not pissing the author off too much or changing his or her voice. There is a world of difference between a proofreader and an Editor. 

Shadar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Legend of SWM
  • Legend of SWM
More
11 Nov 2019 18:13 #65582 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

shadar wrote:

d_k_c wrote:
There’s a lot of work that goes into a story - and writing a coherent story takes some time, and most importantly practice. For me personally, because I like writing other non superheroine fiction, writing a story from beginning to end is good practice. Everytime I post a story, I read it while it’s in the que - and I’m like that’s, misspelled ,I need to elaborate on that or would this character really say this?  Even after all that, I roll my eyes at my own finished product.

.


Oh, OH... that sounds just like me. No matter how much I proofread a story, when I've submitted it to SWM and before it's published, I find all kinds of things that drive me crazy, but it's too late to fix without creating more work for Woodclaw. 

I have reduced this a lot by exporting to a different file format and then reading it on a different device than I wrote it on, and with much larger fonts. For instance, I write on a Mac but I do a final proofread on my iPad. That helps a lot, but it still isn't a 100%. 

Amazing how blind we become to our own prose by the time we've wrestled a story into shape. In the ideal world, I should get it as done as its going to be, and then let it sit for a month or two before going back to read it anew. That would work, probably, but who has extra months to let finished stories sit around?

Which is why traditional publishing as Editors, who take control of the final text. They are a special breed who can massage a thousand details in a manuscript while not pissing the author off too much or changing his or her voice. There is a world of difference between a proofreader and an Editor. 

Shadar


In my day job I often try to catch as many spelling errors as possible before handling the text over to an editor... and I'm astonished by how often publishers seem to think that editing is an optional step!

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Nov 2019 19:57 #65585 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

d_k_c wrote: Njae, good girl, vs bad girl bad girl doesn’t matter as much as good story vs bad story. 


Where did I make the impression I thought otherwise?

d_k_c wrote: There’s a lot of work that goes into a story - and writing a coherent story takes some time, and most importantly practice. For me personally, because I like writing other non superheroine fiction, writing a story from beginning to end is good practice. Everytime I post a story, I read it while it’s in the que - and I’m like that’s, misspelled ,I need to elaborate on that or would this character really say this?  Even after all that, I roll my eyes at my own finished product.


Yeah, been there. I know how much time and effort went into my own writing. No matter how good the word processor was, the proofreaders still found stuff to change, I mean English is still a foreign language to me, so I needed all the help I could get to try and cover the gap to native speakers. And in the end I am still my own worst critic.

d_k_c wrote: My point is, while people might tend to vote for bad girls -  it might be because the best authors write about bad girls. Not being able realize that, might be one of your biggest hurdles.


Sure, that's a possible explanation, and when it comes to the Legends it's the most obvious explanation. But the way you put it, with your own track record of winning workshops with these types of stories, it comes off as arrogant.

One other thing, though: When I first look at a new story here, I quickly look at the bottom to see the tags for that story. Certain tags like "Origin: Alien" or anything hinting at fanfiction have a very high chance of making me skip the story entirely. It's a dick move because I am not giving the author a chance. On the other hand I know what I like and what I don't so even the best-written story will not be my favorite when I already hate the premise. An author whose style I know and like from other stories may get that chance, however. What I want to say is other people may have a similar system in place when deciding whether or not to read a story.

d_k_c wrote: If a story doesn’t gain traction you have a choice, you can blame the universe, or you can blame yourself.


You seem to be under the impression that I'd blame the community for not liking my stories. Trust me when I say that this is not the case. Sure I am not happy about it since I did invest a lot of time writing them, but some of my stories were out of my own comfort zone due to the workshop themes in place. So I am not kidding when I say I don't like them. How could I blame others for not liking them? And just to be perfectly clear about it: Lack of recognition (for my stories) is not why I removed my stories here. I removed them because shit happened. I removed them from other places because they just didn't belong there.
Nowadays I don't have the time to actually write the way I did years ago, Back then I had so much spare time at work to write on the side, but that's over. When I actually do dibble into genre writing, I may produce an outline to make sure I don't write myself into a corner and then lose steam a few thousand words in the real thing. I have accepted that I probably never finish one of these half-projects.

New Deviantart, setup in progress
njae2.deviantart.com/

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 00:12 #65594 by Idylls
Replied by Idylls on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Maybe the story doesn't get traction because you are with the wrong audience. If you're looking for pizza you don't go to a Chinese restaurant. This is what this thread about. Do writers like Shadar and Njae even belong here. 
The following user(s) said Thank You: stmercy2020, njae

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 00:52 #65595 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
Njae – you made the impression when you suggested that SWM has a preference toward bad girls and that your stories weren’t not as well received because they primarily dealt with good girls. While I don’t think that’s the case…At all. I would say maybe, Slut vs Non-slut…..but who are we kidding, does any one really want to read a story about a super empowered prude? =)

As far as my record Is concerned, perhaps you’ve forgotten the times where I routinely came in last place. When I went up against the Titans and I routinely lost – So I tried harder. Eventually forced me to write Milani in DC and then Supanji. Which were meant to take on the Titans – and Supanji is one of the few stories I’ve written that I’m happy with.  

I will say though on a side note – even when I came in last, I found that voting back then was so much more rewarding. One vote per person,and you needed to log in to vote,. I sometimes wonder if that was removed due to ….”Feelings” And feelings might be responsible for a lot of
things….but they don’t make you a better writer, or a better person.

Njae – out of curiosity what’s your measure for your story not being well received? If we were to compare comments – your stories had far more comments than mine
did. Yes I did win some workshops, but I recall you did as well. Other than
that, I have no idea how say, a story like Involuntarily Djinn was received.
The primary reason why I only write complete stories now, is that I know I’ll be
more discouraged than encouraged if I write individual parts.

Bottom line is – The story has to have a good set up, pacing and characters. Dialogue could end your story before it begins, ask yourself would this character really say this?

And, uh, a Nice pair of tits never killed anyone….Well except in the SWM universe……But what good girl would ever do that???

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 11:48 #65597 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

Idylls wrote: Maybe the story doesn't get traction because you are with the wrong audience. If you're looking for pizza you don't go to a Chinese restaurant. This is what this thread about. Do writers like Shadar and Njae even belong here. 


Yes, they do. SWM isn't meant to tackle one specific aspect of the superheroine genre, but to act as a repository for anyone who wants to contribute to this form of fiction. By looking at the numbers in the back end I can tell you that there's not a massive difference between good girls and bad girls stories overall, but there's a difference in terms of time: bad girl stories tend to get more views in the short run, but die down very quickly (with a few exceptions), whereas good girl stories tend to get traction in the mid to long run (again with some exceptions).
There's also the issue of diminishing returns over time. Just like comic books or any other kind of serial narrative, multi-chapter stories tend to follow a rather predictable pattern: the first chapter (of chapters in some cases) is usually the one that gets more interests because of the novelty, the second one is often the weakest -- because lots of readers have dropped the story -- from three onward the interest starts to rise again, but it's an uphill battle to keep it at a steady level.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 16:46 #65599 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: conceptfan, shadar, Woodclaw, fats, Markiehoe, TwiceOnThursdays, TheOne25, Furlough, Woody

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 19:11 #65603 by Gincognifo
Replied by Gincognifo on topic Supervillains versus superheroines
The only way to settle this is to put all of our resources into developing two doses of a super-soldier serum.  We give one dose to a beautiful psychopath and the other to a beautiful humanitarian.  Then, we set up fan pages for them on social media and tally how many likes each of them gets.

The losing side is banished to an isolated island without internet so they can never be fans of their preferred flavor of superwomen ever again.

The winning side gets... I don't know... T-shirts or something.
The following user(s) said Thank You: shadar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2019 21:51 #65605 by Gincognifo
Replied by Gincognifo on topic Supervillains versus superheroines

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, lojack, rivet, Sarge395, freeLancer, Woodclaw, Random321, ChaozCloud, Markiehoe, Klaus, TwiceOnThursdays, TheOne25, guimachajo1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Time to create page: 0.102 seconds