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Superpowers vs Technology

12 Jul 2021 07:43 #71755 by Thefirstone
Superpowers vs Technology was created by Thefirstone
If necessity is the mother of invention, then how far would technology ever advance on a planet where everyone (or at least every woman.  Maybe it’s an alien race consisting only of women) is essentially godlike from a human perspective?  Maybe they know of other species with advanced technology but shun it themselves (either as a comparatively recent development or because they always have) in favor of their own inborn ability.  Conceivably, this could lead to another species invading the planet, expecting it to be easy pickings, and being effortlessly stomped.

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12 Jul 2021 14:33 #71758 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Superpowers vs Technology

If necessity is the mother of invention, then how far would technology ever advance on a planet where everyone (or at least every woman.  Maybe it’s an alien race consisting only of women) is essentially godlike from a human perspective?  Maybe they know of other species with advanced technology but shun it themselves (either as a comparatively recent development or because they always have) in favor of their own inborn ability.  Conceivably, this could lead to another species invading the planet, expecting it to be easy pickings, and being effortlessly stomped.
I discussed this point with Circes a few years ago.
In my opinion, technology wouldn't advance all that much, or it would advance only in a few selected fields depending on the limitations of these superbeings.

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12 Jul 2021 16:41 #71759 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

If necessity is the mother of invention, then how far would technology ever advance on a planet where everyone (or at least every woman.  Maybe it’s an alien race consisting only of women) is essentially godlike from a human perspective?  Maybe they know of other species with advanced technology but shun it themselves (either as a comparatively recent development or because they always have) in favor of their own inborn ability.  Conceivably, this could lead to another species invading the planet, expecting it to be easy pickings, and being effortlessly stomped.
I discussed this point with Circes a few years ago.
In my opinion, technology wouldn't advance all that much, or it would advance only in a few selected fields depending on the limitations of these superbeings.

 
My way of seeing it too. In my decades of writing Aurora Universe stories, Velorians never had any native technology on their planet at all, other than a few leftovers (that were breaking down) from the alien race who had "engineered" them. Everything that needed to be done could be done with their hands, along with some simple tools. No electronics, no space craft, no medical tech, no weapons. Just superior genetics. 

Which is why when they finally came out of their isolation and (with the help of spacefaring races) could now escape their planet's gold field, and gain far greater powers, they were lost in a greater universe that had moved far beyond them.

With the only "tech" being their bodies and their powers, that was also the only thing they had to trade. 
I have always been drawn to the concept of beautiful, superwomen, with no skills beyond what they could do with their bodies (which was a lot), living in the midst of a hyper-advanced technological civilization with starships and advanced weaponary, yet were still able to find ways to make a difference because they didn't need much of that tech and those weapons largely couldn't hurt them. 

They started off being billionaire's "Companions", who could provide many services including personal protection, and then developed into Protectors who could keep an entire planet safe. Still with zero tech other than what others provided, and what they could do with their bodies.

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12 Jul 2021 21:06 #71761 by anonxyzus
Replied by anonxyzus on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I've carried that through in Kiraling. All the tech. my Velorians have access to has come from other races/species/civilizations.

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12 Jul 2021 22:07 #71762 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

I've carried that through in Kiraling. All the tech. my Velorians have access to has come from other races/species/civilizations.
And you've done a great job with Kiraling. 

Never fails to delight me the way an imaginative writer can start with a single concept (the alien cultural convention of a Kiraling) and then flush that out into a world full of interesting characters and problems. 

Note: Kiraling Obligation is a cultural convention of gratitude and a fervent desire to care for someone who risked their life to save theirs. Think Medal of Honor times 10. It is the highest value in Velorian culture, and it's cheerfully and gratefully upheld for a lifetime. All you have to do is to "earn" it is to personally save a Velorian from death or capture/enslavement by the Arions -- and not die yourself.

Given you are dealing with beings with Kryptonian-esq powers, that's a very tall order for a mere human.

But Anonxyzus'  burned, scarred, shattered and PTSD-haunted ex-soldier has earned a Kiraling. And that leads to all kinds of new pathways and adventures that he would never have known otherwise. 

Shadar

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12 Jul 2021 22:08 #71763 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

I've carried that through in Kiraling. All the tech. my Velorians have access to has come from other races/species/civilizations.
And you've done a great job with Kiraling. 

Never fails to delight me the way an imaginative writer can start with a single concept (the alien cultural convention of a Kiraling) and then flush that out into a world full of interesting characters and problems. 

Note: Kiraling Obligation is a cultural convention of gratitude and a fervent desire to care for someone who risked near certain death to save a Velorian. Think Medal of Honor times 10. It is the highest value in Velorian culture, and it's cheerfully and gratefully upheld for a lifetime. All you have to do is to "earn" it is to personally save a Velorian from death or capture/enslavement by the Arions -- and not die yourself.

Given you are dealing with beings with Kryptonian-esq powers, that's a very tall order for a mere human.

But Anonxyzus'  burned, scarred, shattered and PTSD-haunted ex-soldier has earned a Kiraling. And that leads to all kinds of new pathways and adventures that he would never have known otherwise. 

Shadar

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12 Jul 2021 23:27 #71766 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I don't know - I wonder if ants would look up at us and think "Wow, god like powers! I bet they don't need technology or tunnels!" Even as humans our fastest runner still gets in a car/airplane...

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12 Jul 2021 23:52 #71767 by Jabbrwock
Replied by Jabbrwock on topic Superpowers vs Technology

I don't know - I wonder if ants would look up at us and think "Wow, god like powers! I bet they don't need technology or tunnels!" Even as humans our fastest runner still gets in a car/airplane...
 
The issue is how much technological advancement would need to be made with absolutely no benefit to the culture before the first discovery that would actually be useful? Primitive humans didn't have to do much to figure out ways to hugely improve their abilities. Levers to lift heavier objects than were normally possible, domestication of horses to increase movement speed, spears and clubs to let us fight better, and so on. What is a Velorian who doesn't know much more than how to crush rocks going to figure out to actually improve her ability to do, well, anything? Would she ever invent the wheel if she doesn't have trouble moving heavy loads? Would she master the use of fire when she is naturally invulnerable to any extreme of temperature she might encounter and can see perfectly without any light source at all? Without the foundational discoveries that got us started, we'd never have invented all the innovations of the modern world. Which implies that superwomen who have no conceivable use for those foundational discoveries would never invent anything more advanced.

Now, bringing super-intelligence into it might change the game. If you can work your way through the process of advancing civilization over tens of thousands of years in the blink of an eye, you can get past all those foundational discoveries to invent something that might be useful to you before you get bored with the entire thought experiment, but with such super-intelligence, the gateway to effectively godlike power - not just super-strength - is open and you don't have a culture that would make sense to mere mortal readers anyway.

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13 Jul 2021 04:40 #71768 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

I don't know - I wonder if ants would look up at us and think "Wow, god like powers! I bet they don't need technology or tunnels!" Even as humans our fastest runner still gets in a car/airplane...

 
The issue is how much technological advancement would need to be made with absolutely no benefit to the culture before the first discovery that would actually be useful? Primitive humans didn't have to do much to figure out ways to hugely improve their abilities. Levers to lift heavier objects than were normally possible, domestication of horses to increase movement speed, spears and clubs to let us fight better, and so on. What is a Velorian who doesn't know much more than how to crush rocks going to figure out to actually improve her ability to do, well, anything? Would she ever invent the wheel if she doesn't have trouble moving heavy loads? Would she master the use of fire when she is naturally invulnerable to any extreme of temperature she might encounter and can see perfectly without any light source at all? Without the foundational discoveries that got us started, we'd never have invented all the innovations of the modern world. Which implies that superwomen who have no conceivable use for those foundational discoveries would never invent anything more advanced.

Now, bringing super-intelligence into it might change the game. If you can work your way through the process of advancing civilization over tens of thousands of years in the blink of an eye, you can get past all those foundational discoveries to invent something that might be useful to you before you get bored with the entire thought experiment, but with such super-intelligence, the gateway to effectively godlike power - not just super-strength - is open and you don't have a culture that would make sense to mere mortal readers anyway.
 

That's one of the reasons I imagine Vels, or for that matter any race of superhumans, enjoys being around Terrans.

We need tools do just about anything, but we invent wondrous tools.

We are terribly fragile and weak, yet we do adventurous things.

We risk death to help others, and often encounter it, but we continue on.

We are an admirable sub-species, known for using our brains to overcome our many limitations, and that's sexy to someone who grew up being physical about everything. 

Of course, in my writing, I couldn't resist adding the fact that Velorian men are not very adventurous or interesting when it comes to sex.  Physically capable perhaps, but emotionally unavailable and more interested in their silly patriarchal pursuits and games than in paying attention to their women.

Terran men, in contrast, are endlessly creative and out-of-their mind thrilled to have their company.  Perhaps the lovelies say to each other: "If you want to feel truly appreciated, then fly to a Terran world. The men will set you free."

I mean, this is fantasy, so why not.

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13 Jul 2021 04:42 #71769 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

I don't know - I wonder if ants would look up at us and think "Wow, god like powers! I bet they don't need technology or tunnels!" Even as humans our fastest runner still gets in a car/airplane...


 
The issue is how much technological advancement would need to be made with absolutely no benefit to the culture before the first discovery that would actually be useful? Primitive humans didn't have to do much to figure out ways to hugely improve their abilities. Levers to lift heavier objects than were normally possible, domestication of horses to increase movement speed, spears and clubs to let us fight better, and so on. What is a Velorian who doesn't know much more than how to crush rocks going to figure out to actually improve her ability to do, well, anything? Would she ever invent the wheel if she doesn't have trouble moving heavy loads? Would she master the use of fire when she is naturally invulnerable to any extreme of temperature she might encounter and can see perfectly without any light source at all? Without the foundational discoveries that got us started, we'd never have invented all the innovations of the modern world. Which implies that superwomen who have no conceivable use for those foundational discoveries would never invent anything more advanced.

Now, bringing super-intelligence into it might change the game. If you can work your way through the process of advancing civilization over tens of thousands of years in the blink of an eye, you can get past all those foundational discoveries to invent something that might be useful to you before you get bored with the entire thought experiment, but with such super-intelligence, the gateway to effectively godlike power - not just super-strength - is open and you don't have a culture that would make sense to mere mortal readers anyway.

 

That's one of the reasons I imagine Vels, or for that matter any race of superhumans, enjoys being around Terrans.

We need tools do just about anything, but we invent wondrous tools.

We are terribly fragile and weak, yet we do adventurous things.

We risk death to help others, and often encounter it, but we continue on.

We are an admirable sub-species, known for using our brains to overcome our many limitations, and that's sexy to someone who grew up being physical about everything. 

Of course, in my writing, I couldn't resist adding the fact that Velorian men are not very adventurous or interesting when it comes to sex.  Physically capable perhaps, but emotionally unavailable and more interested in their silly patriarchal pursuits and games than in paying attention to their women.

Terran men, in contrast, are endlessly creative when it comes to sex, and out-of-their mind thrilled to have their company.  Perhaps the lovelies say to each other: "If you want to feel truly appreciated, then fly to a Terran world. The men will set you free."

I mean, this is fantasy, so why not.

Shadar

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13 Jul 2021 12:43 #71770 by DP
Replied by DP on topic Superpowers vs Technology
Interesting topic going on here.

Just a thought.. In the history of human civilization, war has been a huge factor for technological advancement. I wonder how war might play a part in the technological advancement in the world of the alien superwomen. 

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13 Jul 2021 14:47 #71771 by Glaazius
Replied by Glaazius on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I think it depends on the potential of these superpowered ladies.
Are their powers limitless or do they have to train to become stronger.
If its the latter then I can imagine them finding ways to enhance their physical powers to gain advantage. (Use doping for example, just like athletes do)
Or (a pretty far fetched idea ala dbz) invent something like a timechamber to gain a year worth of training in a day.
However, if they are all limitless then all those things are useless.
Perhaps then the only way to gain advantage over the other is to fight smarter.
But maybe their powers are so limitless that these beings cannot actually hurt each other.
What use is it to wage war against an enemy you cannot kill?

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13 Jul 2021 15:32 #71772 by slim36
Replied by slim36 on topic Superpowers vs Technology
Agree those with superpowers probably don't need much technology. 
Superpowers could be very helpful in developing and repairing technology at greater speed if the interest could be developed.  It could be very profitable to put superpowers to work, solving problems like detecting live victims buried in rubble diagnosing illnesses or geology with super multi spectral vision,  chemical analysing supersmell.  Superhearing that could detect irregular plumbing problems in humans, or detect irregular gurgle in water or waste pipes.  What would someone with superpowers do with the incredible wealth they might achieve?   Would they setup a trust to solve problems of the non superpowered?

Many animals seem to fear humans. Is it a learned fear of humans with long range weapons?  Without technology for shelter, clothing, food supply, medicine and weapons humans would be easy prey for predators.  Some scavenger animals like rats seem somewhat dependent on living around humans and their abundant food supply.  www.livescience.com/why-predators-dont-attack-humans.html

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13 Jul 2021 16:18 #71773 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I think we have to get a bit beyond Terran thinking to envision the whole range of possibilities. 

For instance, Terran-think would say that a race of superpowered beings would become the ultimate apex predator of their worlds. Or any other world they could reach. Think movies like Alien(s), Predator, Independence Day, etc. etc. etc.

But what if a superpowered species saw Earth as a lovely gem that needed to be preserved. Protected from these warlike and evil aliens who will inevitably find Earth and destroy it, either because we taste good or for other reasons. 

So they set up a secret blockade at the closest wormholes to turn away any dangerous aliens. But there are too few of them. So they recruit some Terrans to work with them, StarTroopers, if you will, who understand the threat and work to focus Earth's technology on developing space defenses so that Earth can eventually help protect itself. 

 The good aliens turn out to be related to the ancient gods and goddesses of Earth's mythology, except they aren't gods, but rather superpowered beings who are relatives of Homo Sapiens, who came to Earth long ago to try to guide human development. Now they have returned to help us survive our greatest test as a species -- a coming invasion of enemies who could destroy all life on Earth. 

I've played around with a few stories of this ilk, but there is so much more ground to explore here. Especially the dynamics of the POV character being one of the Terrans "in the know" who are working with these friendly aliens, who look like us except for having superpowers. Who can blend in so well they might look completely normal walking a dog on a beach when they want to blend in. (Not all superpowers show at first.) 

 

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13 Jul 2021 17:32 #71774 by The Highlander
Replied by The Highlander on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I suspect the effect of superwomen on technical development would also depend on how numerous, reliable and flexible the superwomen were. Are there enough women to provide food, shelter etc for everyone or only a handful meaning most people have to look after themselves? Do their powers always work flawlessly or do they have risks attached like a lot of magic systems. And finally how flexible and controllable are their powers? Having heat vision that can melt steel is great but not so useful for cooking if you can’t reduce the heat enough.

You might end up with a similar situation to what happened in the film ‘Onward’ where technology develops not because it is better, but because it is more convenient.

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14 Jul 2021 03:54 #71777 by Jabbrwock
Replied by Jabbrwock on topic Superpowers vs Technology
Superpowers will tend to suppress technological development under most circumstances, I'd think. There are a few exceptions, though. For example, if the powers started weak and grew generation after generation, technology would be practical for a very long time. Or if there were large populations of non-powered people, they would benefit from technology that was useless to super-humans - although the super-humans might actively suppress technology if it started to get advanced enough to threaten them. But in general, if the powers are strong enough to eclipse the technology, the technology will be neglected.

I'd expect superhumans to be about as innovative as tigers and bears, for pretty much the same reason.

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14 Jul 2021 21:01 - 15 Jul 2021 13:57 #71783 by slim36
Replied by slim36 on topic Superpowers vs Technology
Elementary Velorian Solar System development:   Students will practice basics of Solar System and planet development.   Create 5 solar systems and analyze planets for favorable conditions for human survival.   Students will avoid unnecessary interference with test subjects.
Students will be scored on the development of  their inhabited planets.   Highest scores will be awarded to planets that have developed stable forms of government, health food and energy.   As  a reward for excellence in world building the student can take a sabbatical in the form of planet visit .    some limited use of superpowers can be permitted if it can be concealed from the planet residents.   A memory erasing light can be used to make residents forget a variable length of time in case they see someone in super form..   Not as much fun if the supers are not supposed to show off any superhuman abilities, but they could use the memory eraser to cleanup mistakes.
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14 Jul 2021 23:18 #71786 by grungykitten
Replied by grungykitten on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I think a race of super-powered women would still create technology, just of a different sort. Necessity is the mother of invention, and all that. So the question becomes “what would a ‘super’ woman need that she couldn’t get using her innate abilities”?

Advanced materials and construction techniques, perhaps? I imagine even superwomen would want some kind of home to live in, and such a home would have to be constructed of materials that could withstand their powers. Maybe they figure out technology to harness force fields, shaping and molding them to create walls and portals, which are assembled into bigger structures where they can live and store their belongings.

In a world where everyone has super senses, how do they create privacy? How do they prevent their words, smells or location from being perceived by others? Surely there’s some technology there.

Entertainment is always a big one. Developing technology to entertain themselves. 

Just a few thoughts. 
 

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15 Jul 2021 05:23 #71787 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology
 
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about the development of cultures where people have superpowers. 

A related topic under this heading is when a technological civilization meets a superpowered civilization. Perhaps two ships meeting up in some neutral zone to get to know each other.

Both will have very different cultures and ways of doing things. One ship is full of advanced AI and futuristic tech and antimatter engines or whatever, everyone with their own cabin, while the other ship might have be one big garden where they lay around on the grass or whatever to sleep.  Do the superhumans use their own flight power to navigate their ship or does their ship have engines, perhaps of some primitive kind?  

If you were outfitting a ship for nearly invulnerable, superstrong beings who could live in vacuum and be able to combine their flight power, what would such a ship look like?  Nothing like the first one, that's for sure. 

The various cultural differences could be amusing and interesting. Think "Klingons eating and partying on a Federation ship in so very inappropriate ways" -- and ramp it up from there.  

Also, would the two groups be sexually attracted to each other?  The ordinary humans on the Tech ship would almost certainly see the superhumans as exotic and highly desirable. But the other way around?  Lots of ways to write that. 

Shadar





 

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15 Jul 2021 14:18 #71788 by slim36
Replied by slim36 on topic Superpowers vs Technology
An episode of TOS Star Trek had some alien that could not be viewed by humans unless special goggles were worn.  Superhumans that have the power of a small sun might have trouble controlling the radiation from their super metabolism.  With much training and practice they could control their radiation so they could approach planets and even normal living beings without turning them into plasma.  Even so sometimes they sneeze and let out hiccups equivalent to an explosive charge or a small nuke, leaving landmark craters that scientists believe are volcanic explosions or meteor impacts.  In Lucifer, Mom is injured and the radiation leak vaporizes a human. Special super clothing or uniforms helps to contain these accidental releases, and reduce insurance costs.  Super authorities investigate each release and chronic offenders can be assigned supernova status.
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20 Jul 2021 07:18 #71840 by Thefirstone
Replied by Thefirstone on topic Superpowers vs Technology

 
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about the development of cultures where people have superpowers. 

A related topic under this heading is when a technological civilization meets a superpowered civilization. Perhaps two ships meeting up in some neutral zone to get to know each other.

Both will have very different cultures and ways of doing things. One ship is full of advanced AI and futuristic tech and antimatter engines or whatever, everyone with their own cabin, while the other ship might have be one big garden where they lay around on the grass or whatever to sleep.  Do the superhumans use their own flight power to navigate their ship or does their ship have engines, perhaps of some primitive kind?  

If you were outfitting a ship for nearly invulnerable, superstrong beings who could live in vacuum and be able to combine their flight power, what would such a ship look like?  Nothing like the first one, that's for sure. 

The various cultural differences could be amusing and interesting. Think "Klingons eating and partying on a Federation ship in so very inappropriate ways" -- and ramp it up from there.  

Also, would the two groups be sexually attracted to each other?  The ordinary humans on the Tech ship would almost certainly see the superhumans as exotic and highly desirable. But the other way around?  Lots of ways to write that. 

Shadar

On that note would a species immune to damage from its environment ever develope a nudity taboo?  Or clothing in general?

 

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20 Jul 2021 18:02 #71845 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology

 
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about the development of cultures where people have superpowers. 

A related topic under this heading is when a technological civilization meets a superpowered civilization. Perhaps two ships meeting up in some neutral zone to get to know each other.

Both will have very different cultures and ways of doing things. One ship is full of advanced AI and futuristic tech and antimatter engines or whatever, everyone with their own cabin, while the other ship might have be one big garden where they lay around on the grass or whatever to sleep.  Do the superhumans use their own flight power to navigate their ship or does their ship have engines, perhaps of some primitive kind?  

If you were outfitting a ship for nearly invulnerable, superstrong beings who could live in vacuum and be able to combine their flight power, what would such a ship look like?  Nothing like the first one, that's for sure. 

The various cultural differences could be amusing and interesting. Think "Klingons eating and partying on a Federation ship in so very inappropriate ways" -- and ramp it up from there.  

Also, would the two groups be sexually attracted to each other?  The ordinary humans on the Tech ship would almost certainly see the superhumans as exotic and highly desirable. But the other way around?  Lots of ways to write that. 

Shadar

On that note would a species immune to damage from its environment ever develope a nudity taboo?  Or clothing in general?


 
Maybe clothing as decoration, perhaps just jewelry, perhaps as signals of status. But likely not to cover anything shameful or to stay warm or dry or protected.

And perhaps the superhumans' idea of a greeting isn't a handshake (which is an odd thing when you think about it -- a way of showing you don't have a weapon in hand) but perhaps a deeper and more emotional greeting. 

Velorians have a saying that "you can't really know someone until you feel their soul". (They have a primitive ability to merge their consciousness with another, sharing both physical sensations and thoughts -- but only during the brief moment of shared orgasm.)

Perhaps only we fragile and highly fertile OG humans have a complex cultural infrastructure based on restraint -- around something as simple and basic and revealing as sex.

That would make First Contact a bit more interesting than the usual Star Trek portrayals. Even more when you consider the differences in physical abilities.

I mean, even after decades of brief forays into space, we don't have a clue whether OG humans are skillful at zero-G lovemaking. Nor are we particularly experienced at dealing with partners of exponentially different power levels.

Shadar

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25 Jul 2021 22:05 #71905 by anonxyzus
Replied by anonxyzus on topic Superpowers vs Technology
Thinking about this and letting my imagination roam ...

Super beings without flight powers would need the technology to build space ships. Theirs could be a lot simpler than ours though.

No need for the ship to be airtight, just has to be built to withstand rapid pressure changes when going into and out of atmospheres.
However, communication by sound would not be possible in a vacuum, so they'd have to figure that out.

No concerns about radiation or heating and cooling, other than what is required to allow for instrumentation, sensors, etc. to work.

This drastically lowers the weight of the ship, which reduces the amount of fuel needed to be carried, or the weight of the engine if they are using something other than chemical propellants. Their space program could be much less expensive than ours.
 
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26 Jul 2021 03:31 - 26 Jul 2021 03:33 #71911 by slim36
Replied by slim36 on topic Superpowers vs Technology
They might need pressure and environmental controls to simplify design of the equipment.    Could be like the underwater torpedos used to tow scuba divers
Last edit: 26 Jul 2021 03:33 by slim36.

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26 Jul 2021 06:19 #71913 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Superpowers vs Technology
I've always thought the ships of superhumans would have crude life support systems with the air too thin or too cold for human comfort. Life support equipment could be much smaller.

And if they were flight capable, then they would take turns powering the ship, with acceleration/deceleration limited by how many were pushing at one time.  G forces might be much higher than human tolerance, so they'd be quick. Doing away with engines and fuel supplies would allow a much, much smaller ship to have the same livable space as very large conventional ships.

Wouldn't need space for weapons either, given every crew member and passenger was essentially a living torpedo that could tear its way through any hull. 

The net is that a ship little larger than a large shuttle could zip around undetected until at very close range, given it would not give off an exhaust signature and would look very small on sensors. Yet it would pack the lethal punch of a SuperStarDestroyer. 

Shadar
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