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An open letter to the SWM community

25 Jun 2009 17:40 #15999 by argonaut
An open letter to the SWM community was created by argonaut
To the SWM community:

I've decided to retire. I won't be writing any more stories for SWM, and I'd like to take a few minutes to explain why.

The reason, in a nutshell, is the general lack of feedback from my fellow members.

I don't want to sound like a prima donna. It's not that I expect heaping platters of praise for my stories. But consider:

The people who post stories on this forum, or submit them to the StoryBank, aren't paid for their efforts. Their only remuneration is (a) the satisfaction of crafting a story and (b) the satisfaction of knowing that that others have read and enjoyed it.

For me, at least, the first satisfaction isn't enough to keep me going. Yes, I have fun coming up with ideas for stories and sitting down at the keyboard and pounding out a scene or two. But turning that into a finished story calls for a certain amount of (sometimes tedious) labor. And that's where I need the second kind of remuneration to keep me motivated.

Take my latest story, "Late Night Smackdown." Granted, it's a silly little story -- hardly one of my bigger efforts. But it did take a couple of hours to write and polish. And when nearly 100 people look at it and not one of them takes a moment to post an acknowledgment -- "Enjoyed that!" or "Thanks for posting!" -- I can only infer that the general reaction to the story was indifference or dislike.

Am I over-reacting to the lack of response to one story? Well, Chapter 18 of "The Supergirl of Smallville" got two brief shout-outs -- and a post from one reader who wanted to know when the next chapter will be coming out. (Presumably he liked Chapter 18, though he never said so.) "Payback's a Bitch" fared better, with three responses -- but they were all from fellow participants in the workshop, not from the community at large.

Hey, I know that I'm not Conceptfan or Marknew; I'm an amateur -- in the positive sense of the word -- who's trying to write the kind of stories that I'd enjoy reading and that I hope others would enjoy too. Maybe I'm failing in that; maybe that's what the absence of feedback is telling me. And that's okay -- I gave it my best shot and I had some fun doing it.

But the issue goes beyond the lack of response to my stories. With few exceptions, other writers' stories meet with a similarly disappointing reaction. Fine writers, promising writers, have come and gone on this site -- no doubt for a variety of reasons, but I can't help wondering if they, too, were discouraged by the generally meager levels of feedback from their fellow members.

I think that the StoryBank, and the stories that writers have posted directly on the forum, are one of SWM's best features. But if we expect writers to keep contributing, we need to be more supportive of their efforts. If you like a story, take a minute to let the author know it; if it wasn't your cup of tea, at least thank the author for posting. Non-writers might be surprised to know how motivating a brief, simple note of thanks can be.

And to the readers who HAVE responded (generally favorably) to my stories over the past few years -- thanks! It's because of you that I hung on as long as I did.

Submitted for your consideration --

Argonaut

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25 Jun 2009 19:24 #16000 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Ok, I'm deeply shocked, not because I thought that Argo will continue to post stories as long as the SWM exists, but because I felt partially responsible for his decision. I've been one of the "silent readers" of the SWM for a long time, before my first attempt to write something as part of the TF4000 storyline, and even after that I still post only very rare and sparse comments, even if I read the forum every day.

So Argo, I hope that this will only be temporary hiatus and someday we will see another of your works, until that day I hope that you'll remain an active member fo this devastated community (and that you'll be able to make the editing for my stories).

Sincerily your

Anon

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25 Jun 2009 19:27 #16001 by Spulo
Replied by Spulo on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
It's so frustrating to post something you're really proud of - or even something that you just want simple feedback on one way or the other - and to get no response at all, isn't it? And it's not just stories either. Check out the Elisha Cuthbert thread in the 'I wish she was super' section to see lots of pictures I've made of her in a super-suit that have had absolutely zero response. Sure, a picture doesn't take as much time and effort as a story does (most of the time) but I still put a lot of work into them and to have no response at all is a bit annoying. The most recent one (which I'm really rather proud of) has been there since Sunday, and from the new photobucket stats feature I can tell it's been viewed 156 times. But not a single comment. So is that because people think it's bad? Don't know. Hopefully not, but there's no way to know and it makes me more inclined to just give up.

Yeah, I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone of not replying to stories that people have spent a lot of time working on, but it's a vicious circle. If you post something and get no response then you're inclined to drift away from the community a little and not spend so much time here while other people continue to post things, which is what I've done lately. Actually, I haven't even bothered to read a story on here for a long time, which I guess is even worse than reading it and not replying. Bad me. :(

'm writing the start of a new T-4000 interactive, though I guess it'll serve me right if that gets ignored... :)

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26 Jun 2009 00:58 #16005 by supian
Replied by supian on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
ok argonaut, maybe the stories you post have been done ad nauseum...maybe because it's the same approach over and over again and again..,perhaps the story section has reached overkill and is the same with SWM in general, but don't expect the readers to respond to the same stuff trotted out as they've seen before and will no doubt see again. :roll:

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26 Jun 2009 01:08 #16006 by Sarge395
Replied by Sarge395 on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
I thank you for the stories you have written and given to all of us.

Thanks is few and far between. There are a lot of 'lurkers' here and a small hardcore group of posters and contributors. Hopefully for every one person we lose we gain 2 or even 1.5.

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26 Jun 2009 02:13 #16008 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
ok, supian, maybe you never say what you like or dislike...perhaps its because you never comment but to complain, so don't expect the authors to tailor/write/modify their stories or storylines to meet your individual desires and intellectual stimulation.

I believe your comments clearly illustrates what Argo is speaking of. Personally, I have been remiss around these parts of late and definitely am one of the ones that has not been diligent in providing feedback, so I'll try and take it to heart and contribute more comments -- at least in the short term. Others feel free to join me .....or lob grenades from the cheap seats.

ElF

ok argonaut, maybe the stories you post have been done ad nauseum...maybe because it's the same approach over and over again and again..,perhaps the story section has reached overkill and is the same with SWM in general, but don't expect the readers to respond to the same stuff trotted out as they've seen before and will no doubt see again. :roll:

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26 Jun 2009 02:20 #16010 by inactive
Replied by inactive on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Wait, what?

I've been out of it for a while and everything goes crazy?

First of all, supian, your comment was simply mean-spirited and unnecessary. It was also incorrectly capitalized and grammatically sloppy. I judge you.

Argonaut, I hope you reconsider. You're one of the writers around here who can actually write.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else, having only recently moved from occasional lurker to occasional contributor. I'm sorry for not having been better at giving feedback on other's work.

- GeekSeven

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26 Jun 2009 03:12 #16012 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Lfan, DS7 -- thanks for the support, guys, but supian is entitled to his opinion, and I did ask for it. He finds my stories unoriginal and repetitive, and there may be justice in that; he expressed himself bluntly, but that's better than no response at all.

A few members have offered personal apologies, either on this thread or in private messages. Again, the gesture is appreciated, but I wasn't trying to point fingers at individuals. In many ways, this is a great community. We treat one another courteously and with respect, and I've formed a few on-line friendships among the members. I just think that collectively we could be more supportive of people's contributions.

(And Spulo's post made me realize that when it comes to other kinds of contributions, I've been remiss in offering feedback myself. Mea culpa ... )

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26 Jun 2009 03:54 #16014 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
In an interest to the community -- and as a de facto, delf-appointed forum spokesman -- I read this post and thought about it a good bit before reacting/responding. I do not mean for these answers to assuage
Argo (I've 'spoken' already to him offline and expressed my thoughts), but I thought they might shed some light or bring some of the topics raised here out for more discussion. My counterpoints are intermingled below:


I've decided to retire. I won't be writing any more stories for SWM, and I'd like to take a few minutes to explain why.

The reason, in a nutshell, is the general lack of feedback from my fellow members.

I don't want to sound like a prima donna.


I don't think you sound like a prima donna, and your concerns/frustrations are valid. I do hope you reconsider your retirement though as I asked you before. I think there are others here that would be very sorry if you left these parts.


The people who post stories on this forum, or submit them to the StoryBank, aren't paid for their efforts. Their only remuneration is (a) the satisfaction of crafting a story and (b) the satisfaction of knowing that that others have read and enjoyed it.

For me, at least, the first satisfaction isn't enough to keep me going. Yes, I have fun coming up with ideas for stories and sitting down at the keyboard and pounding out a scene or two. But turning that into a finished story calls for a certain amount of (sometimes tedious) labor. And that's where I need the second kind of remuneration to keep me motivated.


Being an "author" (more on that in a sec), I agree with your assessment. I guess I'm more de-sensitized to the "no feedback phenomenon" than others having received little feedback for any stories, aside from a small circle (lately, a circle of 1....lol). I guess what keeps me going personally is I see these stories as a creative release on a genre that is -- let's be honest -- not shared or liked by most. Knowing that I can share something with people of the same ilk is something that I like to do -- call it community service, if you will. It takes a lot of time sometimes to write a story, make a movie, draw a pic, color a pic, or do an animation and often it is frustrating, but in the end I ask myself "why am I doing it?" For me (again) the answer is mostly B) but if I know that others enjoy it, it makes it that much better. And while no one may explicitly SAY they like it, I believe/know there are some that do.

Take my latest story, "Late Night Smackdown." Granted, it's a silly little story -- hardly one of my bigger efforts. But it did take a couple of hours to write and polish. And when nearly 100 people look at it and not one of them takes a moment to post an acknowledgment -- "Enjoyed that!" or "Thanks for posting!" -- I can only infer that the general reaction to the story was indifference or dislike.

I guess I'm guilty on this one for not saying ANYTHING. Personally, wasn't my fave. Short vignettes rarely prompt any reaction from me (case in point, the interactive story stuff).


Am I over-reacting to the lack of response to one story? Well, Chapter 18 of "The Supergirl of Smallville" got two brief shout-outs -- and a post from one reader who wanted to know when the next chapter will be coming out. (Presumably he liked Chapter 18, though he never said so.) "Payback's a Bitch" fared better, with three responses -- but they were all from fellow participants in the workshop, not from the community at large.

Well, I think the poll on the Workshop IS feedback (favorable), so that is to be considered. As for TSOS, its a little unique as it is practically a saga. Therefore, I think to gauge peole's indifference from the last (single) chapter is a little misleading. I think you collectively have to look at people's reaction to the whole collection which -- as far as I can tell -- has gotten as much favorable feedback support for just about any story round these parts. I certainly hope you guys stick with it.

Hey, I know that I'm not Conceptfan or Marknew; I'm an amateur -- in the positive sense of the word -- who's trying to write the kind of stories that I'd enjoy reading and that I hope others would enjoy too. Maybe I'm failing in that; maybe that's what the absence of feedback is telling me. And that's okay -- I gave it my best shot and I had some fun doing it.

I find it quite fortunate that none of us are Conceptfan! :P Seriously, we are all amateurs. One of the reasons I started SGI a while back and the story library was to create a community that shared the same ubergirl interest without the condescending jibber-jabber and artery-slicing peer reviews that I had seen that eventually escalated into arguments. Let's face reality, people...none of us do this writing stuff for a living (that I know of). Some are better than others, and a LOT are pretty darned good around here. This is fantasy writing and as such should be ingested with a little poetic license and some literary training wheels. Its all in good fun. I personally enjoy well written stuff but sometimes I enjoy the les polished stuff just as much. Again, I wouldn't take stock in the amount of feedback heaped on one author in relation to another.


But the issue goes beyond the lack of response to my stories. With few exceptions, other writers' stories meet with a similarly disappointing reaction. Fine writers, promising writers, have come and gone on this site -- no doubt for a variety of reasons, but I can't help wondering if they, too, were discouraged by the generally meager levels of feedback from their fellow members.

I think that the StoryBank, and the stories that writers have posted directly on the forum, are one of SWM's best features. But if we expect writers to keep contributing, we need to be more supportive of their efforts. If you like a story, take a minute to let the author know it; if it wasn't your cup of tea, at least thank the author for posting. Non-writers might be surprised to know how motivating a brief, simple note of thanks can be.

And to the readers who HAVE responded (generally favorably) to my stories over the past few years -- thanks! It's because of you that I hung on as long as I did.


OK, I went back and read what I've written so far and am totally rambling and saying the same thing in 4 different ways. Sorry. So I'll be brief and close by saying I think that lack of feedback (and the abundance of the 'lack of it') are kinda status quo are round here as long as I have been here -- and that's a long time. It would be a shame to see it chase off a great contributor and writer (yes, I said great) as yourself, so I'd hope you'd stay, but that's your call. Whatever your decision, thanks for your contributions and I think a good bit of us would hope we hear from you in the future regardless of your decisions to contribute fiction anymore.

ElF


To the SWM community:

I've decided to retire. I won't be writing any more stories for SWM, and I'd like to take a few minutes to explain why.

The reason, in a nutshell, is the general lack of feedback from my fellow members.

I don't want to sound like a prima donna. It's not that I expect heaping platters of praise for my stories. But consider:

The people who post stories on this forum, or submit them to the StoryBank, aren't paid for their efforts. Their only remuneration is (a) the satisfaction of crafting a story and (b) the satisfaction of knowing that that others have read and enjoyed it.

For me, at least, the first satisfaction isn't enough to keep me going. Yes, I have fun coming up with ideas for stories and sitting down at the keyboard and pounding out a scene or two. But turning that into a finished story calls for a certain amount of (sometimes tedious) labor. And that's where I need the second kind of remuneration to keep me motivated.

Take my latest story, "Late Night Smackdown." Granted, it's a silly little story -- hardly one of my bigger efforts. But it did take a couple of hours to write and polish. And when nearly 100 people look at it and not one of them takes a moment to post an acknowledgment -- "Enjoyed that!" or "Thanks for posting!" -- I can only infer that the general reaction to the story was indifference or dislike.

Am I over-reacting to the lack of response to one story? Well, Chapter 18 of "The Supergirl of Smallville" got two brief shout-outs -- and a post from one reader who wanted to know when the next chapter will be coming out. (Presumably he liked Chapter 18, though he never said so.) "Payback's a Bitch" fared better, with three responses -- but they were all from fellow participants in the workshop, not from the community at large.

Hey, I know that I'm not Conceptfan or Marknew; I'm an amateur -- in the positive sense of the word -- who's trying to write the kind of stories that I'd enjoy reading and that I hope others would enjoy too. Maybe I'm failing in that; maybe that's what the absence of feedback is telling me. And that's okay -- I gave it my best shot and I had some fun doing it.

But the issue goes beyond the lack of response to my stories. With few exceptions, other writers' stories meet with a similarly disappointing reaction. Fine writers, promising writers, have come and gone on this site -- no doubt for a variety of reasons, but I can't help wondering if they, too, were discouraged by the generally meager levels of feedback from their fellow members.

I think that the StoryBank, and the stories that writers have posted directly on the forum, are one of SWM's best features. But if we expect writers to keep contributing, we need to be more supportive of their efforts. If you like a story, take a minute to let the author know it; if it wasn't your cup of tea, at least thank the author for posting. Non-writers might be surprised to know how motivating a brief, simple note of thanks can be.

And to the readers who HAVE responded (generally favorably) to my stories over the past few years -- thanks! It's because of you that I hung on as long as I did.

Submitted for your consideration --

Argonaut

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26 Jun 2009 04:34 #16015 by brad328
Replied by brad328 on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
I've been very remiss in posting comments to both the stories that have been posted and pics/art that people contribute. I'm not sure why, I'd hate to think it's laziness, but it's probably part of it. And for that I apologize to all who contribute either sporadically, like myself, or regularly (Argo, Ace, Elf, Random, Spulo, mr_93_jeep_grnd_cherokee, Sarge, DietSnapple71, and anyone else I may have missed, you know who you are) along with those who run sites (Bully Pup, JonX, ctheis).

There are a lot of great stories and there's some really fantastic artwork and photomanips that people have done here. And the Supergirl/Wonder Woman of the day that went on for almost two years combined (lest I not forget the NBA Dancers and Race Queens contributions along with the many, many people who we wished were super).

And for all that, I thank everyone here.

Feedback is important and I think that I'm a pretty good example. I threw together a story as a whim for a storybank a few years ago and it wasn't very good...not horrible but there are some cringe worthy elements in there as I reread it. Without out the critiques and encouragement of people, such as Argo, it probably would've been my only stab at superheroine fiction. Well, fast forward to now and I have a few more stories (that get slightly better each time), a large collection of art, and now a couple of videos (still available at www.projectsuperwoman.com, shameless plug). This wouldn't have happened without the support of the people here at SWM and, again, I thank them for that.

I hope that I get off my butt more often and let people know that their work is appreciated and I hope more people do the same here. SWM is the only forum that I visit regularly because of the people (you're not all insane...a rarity on the net) and I'd hate to see a place like this slowly go away.

Thanks for reading.

BW

Now,

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26 Jun 2009 10:45 #16016 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
I have to thank LFan to precisly point out all the things I wanted to tell but was unable to put down in a coherent form.

Once again Argo, I hope you'll reconsider. I admit that I have at least one very egoistical reason to ask for that, you are one of the few authors that contributed to this forum on a more or less regular basis and I think that your decision might have consequences much bigger than you think upon this community as a whole.

In my life I have been part of various groups and net-groups and I know that having some people resign or simply disappearing is an unfortunate part of the game, but there is point, behind which things are doomed to go worst by the second, and that's when one or more of the peoples who contributed with more entusiasm to a community, regarless of the results, started to go away. Entusiasm is the very soul of a group, anybody with a little of coordination can put together a group and set an objective, but without a fair share of entusiasm the result will be mediocre at best. On the other hand the lack of feedback, either positive or negative, is a big motivation killer, I can see that in other communities I'm part of, and the fact that almost any initiative the SWM tried in the last year and half (except the last Workshop) was a failure didn't help either.

I know that the overall picture isn't very bright, but I think that's normal because some of us have started taking things for granted, while I hope you'll reconsider, I also think that your announcement was a good way to shake some of us from our apathy. But we already half lost many good authors one the way, several greeat works remained unfinished in the Storybank (Yosh's "Serena" for example), so I really hope to see another "by Argonaut" piece of work on this forum one day, I hope that this is only a "see you" rather than a "farewell".

Sincerily,

Anon

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26 Jun 2009 15:51 #16020 by CaptainIrishman
Replied by CaptainIrishman on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Hey A,
First off I gotta confess I don't read the short stories on this site or any of the others.... so I don't comment on what I don't read. Having said that I do get that the lack of feedback or any kind word at all is annoying, frustrating and depressing. On other sites and in other contexts I have posted work that took aaaaages to write, fix, polish, edit, re-structure, fix again and then ya post it and......nothing. The counter says 58 views, replies nil.....and your first reaction is 'fuck you I broke my hole to pull that shit together and no one even says "Nice one"'....yep I've been there and go back there regularly. No one means anything by it, and they don't get that a few kind words are all thats needed. They're just used to logging in, taking what they want and logging off.

Also I gotta say that this forum probably has more silent lurkers cos some of the members are .....secretive and maybe even unsure or even embarrassed by why superwomen turn them on...some (like me) may not have told their girlfriends about how a spin from Linda Carter can put them in a spin (we can't all be as lucky as bullypup). They're not used to replying on this board so they don't. I'm not making excuses I'm just saying that in this forum we may have more lurkers and secretive folk than other sites with fan fiction elements.

I hear you dude and empathise but I think some of your fans will always be silent. Sorry. I won't bullshit you by pretending to read your work but I have seen what Jonx did with it and I've seen other posts from you and have enjoyed your input. I get that you feel like no one is listening (seriously I really get that like you wouldn't believe) but please hang around and pitch in anyway. You never know, maybe by posting this up you may finally get some feedback.

well, there's my 10 cents. Its almost beer'o'clock here so I'll be heading. Hopefully I'll still see you around A

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26 Jun 2009 16:41 #16022 by Lastleaf
Replied by Lastleaf on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
I'm sorry to hear that you're retiring Argonaut. I'm sure there are a lot of readers who will miss your stories.

With that out of the way, I like to say what I think about the open letter.

I suppose I could have encouraged or critiqued your or any other works here at SWM, and I have in the case The Supergirl of Smallville. I suppose I could have given more feedback, provided more of my opinions. I guess my inactivity was a mistake. I don't know if that will change because I have my misgivings.

I presumed you and other authors enjoyed what you are writing. I believed that readers enjoyed them too. Truthfully I don't. I've expressed why I didn't though I did it quietly like a glancing blow so as not to upset the few authors that write here, who gave the effort to produce something enjoyed by the community. I kept quiet for the sake of others who enjoyed them.

I'll say again more bluntly. I didn't enjoy the stories. Why?

For a site like Superwomenmania whose focus is on super women I expected to see superwomen and I knew I'll see superwomen, that is a given. "Ah! but what's the matter we gave you superwomen". It was the execution. :?: . You see you don't empower women by putting down the men. Most stories here involve that, men are dumb brutes, jealous creatures with infantile egos. "Now, how is that connected?" Because it lessens or nullifies the impact of empowering women. Especially in a site like this about superwomen, what does that say? If the men are idiots why the need for superwomen? It is quite subtle, hardly anyone would notice especially those that follow the stories just to see how that supergirl balance that tank with what part of her anatomy. But it is quite prevalent.

I guess others enjoy those stories but I don't.

Another batch of stories I don't enjoy, evil super women. Oh man, are they everywhere and I've read people like them. What was that last workshop about? Isn't this just an excuse to write people gawk helplessly. Most are written with the evil superwoman being inviolate, practically invincible and their antagonist are left gawking at them. For all intents, those stories are dumb. No buildup, no worthwhile conflict, no room for plot twists nor clifhangers, Dumb! Admittedly it is good entertainment dope once in a long while but c'mon! It is getting thin. We have writers who focus completely at those themes, readers that admittedly love them. Me, I've chose to ignore. "Them", certainly enjoy the work, and it is not my right to dictate what others should like. Bottomline, such stories get no comments from me.

The stories that come out just doesn't interest me and I kept my distaste so as not to offend. Certainly it is my right to protest if I don't like the recent stories that come out, but what is the point of doing that, others have enjoyed them that is the only thing that is important. Though I realize as I'm writing this that the lack of feedback makes a single comment, for better or worse, carry a lot of weight. I don't like to carry that weight. I'm also not that vain enough to impose my preference. Should I do so?

That said the community needs discussions more. I think I tried to open discussions on various topics on this boards but the talks die. I kinda felt the same frustrations when topics I'm interested in just lose interest. I don't know if I stuck out my head more that would that make a difference. Certainly this thread indicate that it might. So even with my frustrations and misgivings with the recent stories I'll try to see if their is a difference.

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26 Jun 2009 20:26 #16023 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
LL --

Good commentary and candor....I don't think its vanity to discuss your preferences. Quite the contrary, I think its strongly urged. I think some people do not tend to do that for possible fear of other people "not being into that" or outright bashing it. If nothing else, maybe you'll get a link to another site where your preferences are more closely followed.

Hopefully, there is some "superwoman connection" that brought you and most others to this site. I agree that some of the content (stories) tend to stay in the same topic range and it probably gets boring for some. I personally do not tire of it, as this type of stuff is my "kink" and will probably always be. I guess I'm hardwirded that way. That is not to say that I enjoy or care for everyone's slant on the genre. Some are too violent (IMO) and some are over-the-top from a sexual nature (again, my opinion) so those sub-topics or plot devices do not necessarily appeal to me. As they say different strokes for different folks.

I wish more people would start topics about their likes or general subculture/personal questions like they do on Amaz0ns (e.g. "How old were you when you realized you had this fetish?" "What is your favorite this or that"), but I guess our little genre plays it closer to the vest. The ironic thing is that there is a ton of crossover from our community to theirs in terms of membership, but not interactivity....

ElF

I'm also not that vain enough to impose my preference. Should I do so?

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26 Jun 2009 20:52 #16024 by dave147
Replied by dave147 on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
hi annon,

i loved "The Supergirl of Smallville and was really looking forward to chapter 19 super suzy really appreciate if did that story i understand what you mean about posting but i sure you every ten if not more that post really enjoy reading your stories.

my two cents on this

dave

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26 Jun 2009 21:22 #16026 by mr_93_jeep_grnd_cherokee
Replied by mr_93_jeep_grnd_cherokee on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Sorry to hear you're retiring, Argo. Heck, I browse through the stories just to see if there's anything that catches my eye. But when it comes to commenting about those stories, I'm remiss about that. Take for example, the past year, my "Wonder Woman of the day" thread. I did get comments but they are few and far between. There were some days I wondered why in the hell am I do this if no one is going to comment?!! But when someone commented, I felt that it was a worthwhile contribution. So I hope this is just a "See you soon" as another member said and not a "Farewell forever"!

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26 Jun 2009 23:13 #16027 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Hey, guys:

I've gotten a lot of thoughtful responses to my open letter, on this thread and in emails and private messages, and I want to thank everyone who took the time to write.

I was hoping my letter didn't sound angry or petulant, and I'm glad that people don't seem to have taken it that way. The bottom line, again, is that for those who post stories on this site, feedback is the coin they're paid in and the fuel that keeps them going.

Right now, for the reasons I explained, my gas tank is practically empty. But that could change, and I'm not one to shut a door completely behind me. So like Frosty the Snowman, I might be back again some day.

I'll still be around on the forum. I said I was going to stop writing stories; I didn't say I was going to shut up!

And "The Supergirl of Smallville" will continue. Ace has been the best collaborator a writer could ask for -- lavish in his input, unflagging in his enthusiasm, honest in his criticism, and generous in his praise -- and having passed the halfway mark of our story, neither of us is about to toss in the sponge now!

Thanks again for your understanding and support --

Argonaut

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27 Jun 2009 01:29 #16029 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Esp not with six TGK digital color pics bought and paid for on the hardrive!

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27 Jun 2009 03:42 #16031 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Lastleaf:

Interesting post. I respect your candor. Since you say you'd like to open some discussion, let me offer a few points in response:

Bear in mind that this is a site for people who share a specific "fantasy fetish." And when it comes to our personal turn-ons, there is definitely no arguing over tastes: You either get it or you don't. Superwomen? Right up my alley. FMG? Not so much. Giantesses? Not in my zip code. But of course, other people's preferences will differ -- and there are other websites tailored for them. Takes all kinds, right?

Now, I'm no psychologist, but it seems plausible that for some of us here, at least, the fantasy of super-powerful women contains an element of masochism. If the women in your fantasy world are vastly stronger than the men, then it follows logically that the men are far weaker than the women. It's the flip side of the coin. So I think that explains why men tend to be "put down" in many of the stories here -- why they're often humilated or physically abused by the women.

So to some extent, yes -- you'll find that in just about any story here. Honestly, I don't think it's a prominent feature of my own stories, though I can see it in "Mightora," for example. It's obvious in many of Marknew's stories, in which weakened men are taunted and humiliated by women who have become bigger and stronger than they are. And of course Conceptfan's women practically live to torture and kill the men unlucky enough to cross their paths.

But it's not true that men are presented in such a contemptible light in all the stories here. I can point to Jon Crane in Brad's Mindy Marvel stories, and Randall Dixon in GeekSeven's Stupendous Girl series. And although your criticism may apply to Clark in "The Supergirl of Smallville," it's hardly true of Lex. I think you're painting with too broad a brush. Our StoryBank has more variety than yiu give it credit for.

Lastleaf, something in the superwoman fantasy must appeal to you. So let me ask you: What would you look for in your ideal superwoman story? What's missing from the stories here that you want to see? Who knows -- if you tell us the kind of super-woman story you'd like to read, some writer might be inspired to write it.

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27 Jun 2009 13:52 #16032 by Lastleaf
Replied by Lastleaf on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
This must be the kindest board I've seen excluding the private alliance boards of the mmo's that I play. :)

Candid me? I admit I wrote half my post before dinner and finished it after a wonderful meal. But it is a shame that me who didn't enjoy the stories posted my comments and now got to be catered to and asked what I like.

You know what they say about the "squeaky wheel", hehe! :wink:

Alright let me say this straight. To the various authors who write Super women stories, write what you love, there is no greater motivation than doing something you enjoy. We may give our opinions but we can't force any author to write anything that their hearts are not in it. Please I implore these writers, just create what you love.

Now in response to Argonaut.

I didn't stumble upon this genre by accident, I knew that sites like this cater to our fantasy. Didn't realize that it includes male humiliation and I still chuckle at Diana the Valkyries disclaimer "they don't encourage male rape", but hey, I'm quite the tolerant guy, I didn't find sites like this without going through the slew of super heroine bondage and peril sites. I knew from the get go or realized immediately after that there are somethings included that I didn't bargained for. Of course I'm not naive, I summed it up quite correctly "to each his own". So yeah, you've said what I knew a long time ago, takes all kinds!

That was more and about 12 years ago and I realized something as the decade went past. It is something I commented on this boards, probably glossed over by those that frequent this boards as I don't write stories. I missed my heroine, I missed my super girl. I missed the sweet young girl that would swoop down from the sky and save the day. That was the "appeal" for me. I rarely saw her. Of course I also wanted "substance", I don't ask for the powerpuff credo of "sugar, spice and everything nice". Stories aren't that simple, trust me I know from the years playing DnD, White-wolf and other rpg games. We made stories and nothing was simple (no hack n slash for me, we were :: *thunk* :: "Okay back to topic, geez!)

But I kept seeing male humiliation, exploitation and other stuff that though erotic made me belch at the same time. Conceptfan, blogs like Ultragirl, blogger from Jupiter? (can't recall), mankillers ("can't get more obvious than that!"), Supersexyheroines, the subtle change in bullypups productions like Home Invasion, Tempest (granted I only saw excerpts at youtube, maybe they're all like that :: *shudders* :: ) and the most recent one about Raven. The most recent workshop here at SWM. Heck, I can't find a non humiliation/rape story at Diana the Valkyrie for the past year.

Is this where the genre is headed? So I shrugged " to each his own".

Long story short, I miss my "supergirl" and I don't know where I'll see her again (in fan created stories anyway see below). Did I paint that broad a stroke, probably, but that brush was just given to me. That is what I saw, those are what I pointed above.

What appealed to me isn't lost. Supergirl today starting from issue 34 is a gem (yay! no more lost teenager). Powergirl harkens back to the days fun and adventure. Wonderwoman stumbles though but still regal from what I managed to borrow. Recent Ms. Marvel Karla Sofen, is excellent, intriguing and a surprise favorite of mine (so who says I don't like supervillains). I actually can't believe I'm back collecting comics again and more active, going to conventions, than before.

You are right, I actually follow brad328 at deviantart and G7's not so much. Stupendous girl is quite a comic.

As for the fantasy... To articulate it roughly, I'm Batman to your Wonder woman, that even though you are far superior to mine, we stand equal. I don't think there is a story here quite like that. I don't know if anyone is inspired to write that. Frankly, I won't be holding my breath, I doubt I'll be catered to by the community. Its alright.

As I said above write what you love. It would be a privilege if you write what I love but not to the expense of what you enjoy.



One last thing. A list of stories I enjoyed. What for? I'm not entirely sure. Read in it what you will.

Ascension series by Taliesan, feels alive, each character has a distinctive voice.
Linith and Fare by Tarot Barnes, especially the Fare part, really sorry to see the stories taken down.
The Project by DKC
You and Each of You by Brantley
A story by Shadar about a Velorian protector whose planet has a contest to see if they can develop a weapon to harm her. She just smiles, not showing the pain from those pin point lasers. Can't really remember the title.
Daphne Orgone

For the other head :wink: ...
World War 3.0 Public Beta by Whitepaw
Red Kryptonite by Julie Velor
Kathryn: In service to her country by Pat Mallon

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27 Jun 2009 16:19 #16034 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community

I missed my heroine, I missed my super girl. I missed the sweet young girl that would swoop down from the sky and save the day. That was the "appeal" for me. I rarely saw her.


Well, Lastleaf, you and I are definitely on the same page.

There was a poll on the forum a while ago: "Good supergirl vs bad supergirl -- which do you prefer?" As I recall, the vote was split pretty evenly. But for some reason, super bad girls definitely outnumber the super-heroines in the StoryBank.

I loved "Ascension." Taliesen was one of those writers who came and went, and I really wish he'd return. Daphne, too. I'd add Mikey Freedom to the list. He still pops up on the forum from time to time, so maybe there's hope that he'll write the next chapter of "Bolt from the Blue," or another one of his "classic Supergirl" stories. And there are probably a few other authors I can't think of at the moment who work our side of the streeet. Am I missing anyone?

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27 Jun 2009 20:29 #16035 by yaracyrrah
Replied by yaracyrrah on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community

But for some reason, super bad girls definitely outnumber the super-heroines in the StoryBank.


Because bad-girl stories are vastly easier to plot, and hence to write.

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27 Jun 2009 23:55 #16036 by Artnico
Replied by Artnico on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Hello.

I'm sad to learn that you've decided to retire Argonaut. :(
But I understant what you mean. I'm also disappointed by not receive feedbacks for my web site attempt "superheroines-univers" though there are stories writed in french.
I don't want to search any excuses, but it's difficult for me to send feedbacks concerning writed stories only because I'm French and I don't understand stories writed in english very much. It's very difficult to understant langage subtilities when it's not your familiar langage.
Hope everybody will continue to work for our passion of Superwomen.

Thanks.

Nicolas.

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28 Jun 2009 02:29 #16037 by eavatar
Replied by eavatar on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Well, I write profissionally for several web sites and what I can say about this kind of job? The better reward is exactly the lack of comments and a big hits score at your target page. So relax and enjoy the few comments you get. They really are the jackpo t at the web oriented gigs.

What I can suggest to measure if you are being a wide well received write r or not is insert a "rate this story" or always set a poll at the boards asking if the readers want to read more stories like that or n ot. If you really wish be a "web 2.0" writer let the readers vote what t hey want read at the next story arc. like "Do you want a super powered rival to Lana ?"

Or

"Do you want read about Ea rth 23 Supergirl Susan Prentiss? Y/N" If you want positive or negative comments sometimes you need to force them. The best example about how to force it is DevArt's "commentary box" under the pics. On this case right here we can force the comments usually opening a new entry at the board before you post the story, like a teaser.


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Going ahead is the only one way to go to the future.

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28 Jun 2009 07:28 #16039 by oldHarmonyMotion
Replied by oldHarmonyMotion on topic Re: An open letter to the SWM community
Well, hopefully this letter of farewell from one of our few and far between contributors will shock the rest of us out of complacency.

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