Wonder Woman - Origin - Trailer

12 Mar 2017 05:41 #53096 by fats
Hi all,

here it is the official trailer for the new WW film



Looks good

Fats
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12 Mar 2017 05:54 - 12 Mar 2017 16:01 #53098 by Monty
Yeah it looks good! I like the clip at 01.33 (as well as the whole trailer). It looks like Steve knows who she is which makes sense in what looks like wartime London and what looks like war-torn Resistance France which also makes sense if she is fighting the nazis. Nice little touch at the end there for the trailer. ☺

ETA Perhaps her island is in the Mediterranean which would explain a British pilot showing up?
Last Edit: 12 Mar 2017 16:01 by Monty.

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12 Mar 2017 22:18 #53110 by cbaby
This is set in World War 1 though isn't it? no resistance france and the zepellins didn't do THAT much damage to London afaik.

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12 Mar 2017 22:53 - 12 Mar 2017 23:06 #53111 by Monty
Fair enough cbaby, it is indeed set in WWI. I just put two and two together and got WWII. There are scenes of at least one Northern French town invaded and destroyed, and there was an underlying French & Belgian Resistance back then in 1914.

ETA the bullet scene in the alley at 01.33...German spies?
Last Edit: 12 Mar 2017 23:06 by Monty.

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13 Mar 2017 03:51 #53117 by hpol
Do any of you know if she will be able to fly on her movie? there is a short scene where it appears she takes off the ground, or is she leaping?

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13 Mar 2017 08:12 - 13 Mar 2017 08:12 #53118 by lowerbase
I still wished Gal Gadot had visited the gym more often

Every extra on amazon island looks stronger than wonder woman, and she's supposed to be the strongest? Why be an amazon then? A 5 feet tall actress would do then, if physique wasn't important for the character.

Her body type feels like a half-measure. One that most women wished to have, tall enough to pass as an 'amazon'
Last Edit: 13 Mar 2017 08:12 by lowerbase.

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13 Mar 2017 17:43 #53124 by shadar

lowerbase wrote: I still wished Gal Gadot had visited the gym more often

Every extra on amazon island looks stronger than wonder woman, and she's supposed to be the strongest? Why be an amazon then? A 5 feet tall actress would do then, if physique wasn't important for the character.

Her body type feels like a half-measure. One that most women wished to have, tall enough to pass as an 'amazon'


Daughter of Zeus, greatest of the gods, and Hippolyta, greatest of the Amazons, she doesn't need hulking muscles to be strong. She is a demi-goddess, and strength and power are her legacy.

But based on the scenes of her growing up, she clearly had to grow into her power, and it is unknown how much her bracelets (too small a word for that forearm armor) or girdle or any other talisman plays into this. But her mother says in the trailer that she needs to be trained "5 times, even 10 times" that of other Amazons.

One scene in the trailer suggests she picked up and threw a truck. Unlikely a normal Amazon could do that (although I wouldn't want to arm wrestle one).

Given that all Amazons can defeat a man in combat, and as shown, the Amazons in general aren't hulking body builders, then they have to either depend on superior training and conditioning, or some extra juice in their muscles.

That said, Diana either has much higher quality muscles than other Amazons, allowing her to be smaller yet far stronger, or she benefits from magic from something in her gear, or in her DNA (daughter of Zeus and all).

At least, that's how I'm rationalizing it all at this point.

After all, Supergirl doesn't have Superman's muscles, but she can crush steel in her bare hand, squishing it as if it was merely some sculptress's wet clay. It's in the DNA, not the girth and the poundage.
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13 Mar 2017 19:40 - 13 Mar 2017 19:41 #53129 by lowerbase
That's the thing, both WW and Supergirl don't have muscles or height because of our standards of female beauty. Not because of mythology or logic.

Superman doesn't need muscles as well. Yet, who's the most muscular character in all DC? Superman. Because he is a super 'man'. And 'man' has to has muscles, even if they are useless on a super being.

What's an Amazon in our culture after all? Basically, it is a girl taller than most men. But that's something Hollywood don't do, not even with Wonder Woman. It would emasculate men. Most women don't feel attracted with shorter men. At least is how the conservative view of gender goes.

But I really think that is changing, we are in a world now where women are developing 'masculine' traits, and men are accepting to have 'feminine' roles. It is a byproduct of gender equality. Women these days lift weights in the gym. Many men know better than women how to handle babies.

I just think we are past of this stigma of weaker-than-men women, still, visually, it is not happening on pop culture. Women themselves are critic that a flimsy 5 feet girl to karate her way against a 300 pounds adversary (Underworld, cough), it looks ludicrous, unreal, can't trick our brain to believe it.

Wonder Woman looking like a runaway supermodel feels old, obsolete, not the future where a woman can look Strong.
Last Edit: 13 Mar 2017 19:41 by lowerbase.
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14 Mar 2017 00:12 #53136 by shadar
Don't get me wrong... I was one of the original complainers about Gal Gadot not looking anything like an Amazon. But once it was clear we were going to have to live with it, I've been working on a variety of rationalizations why she can be the strongest and not look it. That just so I can enjoy the movie.

But to your point, while society (western, anyway) is gradually accepting the reality of stronger and more muscular women, the upper bounds for what is considered attractive in terms of models and actresses hasn't moved too much.

Fit has replaced soft, and heights that are plus or minus six feet are fully accepted, but that's about it. In fact, height is working against us. Tall, willowy women (think Uma Thurman) are increasingly cast in movies, but it's biologically hard to be willowy and muscular at the same time. We are talking body types, and serious gym work can only change a person's body type to a degree, at least not without living in the gym.

The 'fitness model' look of a few years ago was very much to my liking, but it involved a narrow range of body types, living in the gym and going under the knife for major implants and other surgeries. It looked good, but like bodybuilding, it was more extreme than most women can (or want to) handle. Linda Hamilton at her fittest was an exception. She was seriously muscular and beautiful.

At least the norm for actresses today isn't short and overly rounded (and endowed) like it was a few decades ago. You look at pictures of someone like Marylyn Monroe today, and most of us see flabby. Someone who doesn't work out every day, if ever.

That's progress... we got height. We got fit. But at Jennifer Lawrence with some serious muscle and incredibly defined? Not sure most people are ready for that.

But here's where I'd like to be: Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2:



Shadar


lowerbase wrote: That's the thing, both WW and Supergirl don't have muscles or height because of our standards of female beauty. Not because of mythology or logic.

Superman doesn't need muscles as well. Yet, who's the most muscular character in all DC? Superman. Because he is a super 'man'. And 'man' has to has muscles, even if they are useless on a super being.

What's an Amazon in our culture after all? Basically, it is a girl taller than most men. But that's something Hollywood don't do, not even with Wonder Woman. It would emasculate men. Most women don't feel attracted with shorter men. At least is how the conservative view of gender goes.

But I really think that is changing, we are in a world now where women are developing 'masculine' traits, and men are accepting to have 'feminine' roles. It is a byproduct of gender equality. Women these days lift weights in the gym. Many men know better than women how to handle babies.

I just think we are past of this stigma of weaker-than-men women, still, visually, it is not happening on pop culture. Women themselves are critic that a flimsy 5 feet girl to karate her way against a 300 pounds adversary (Underworld, cough), it looks ludicrous, unreal, can't trick our brain to believe it.

Wonder Woman looking like a runaway supermodel feels old, obsolete, not the future where a woman can look Strong.

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14 Mar 2017 01:56 - 14 Mar 2017 01:59 #53140 by rebel4life

shadar wrote: Don't get me wrong... I was one of the original complainers about Gal Gadot not looking anything like an Amazon. But once it was clear we were going to have to live with it, I've been working on a variety of rationalizations why she can be the strongest and not look it. That just so I can enjoy the movie.

But to your point, while society (western, anyway) is gradually accepting the reality of stronger and more muscular women, the upper bounds for what is considered attractive in terms of models and actresses hasn't moved too much.

Fit has replaced soft, and heights that are plus or minus six feet are fully accepted, but that's about it. In fact, height is working against us. Tall, willowy women (think Uma Thurman) are increasingly cast in movies, but it's biologically hard to be willowy and muscular at the same time. We are talking body types, and serious gym work can only change a person's body type to a degree, at least not without living in the gym.

The 'fitness model' look of a few years ago was very much to my liking, but it involved a narrow range of body types, living in the gym and going under the knife for major implants and other surgeries. It looked good, but like bodybuilding, it was more extreme than most women can (or want to) handle. Linda Hamilton at her fittest was an exception. She was seriously muscular and beautiful.

At least the norm for actresses today isn't short and overly rounded (and endowed) like it was a few decades ago. You look at pictures of someone like Marylyn Monroe today, and most of us see flabby. Someone who doesn't work out every day, if ever.

That's progress... we got height. We got fit. But at Jennifer Lawrence with some serious muscle and incredibly defined? Not sure most people are ready for that.


Shadar, thank you very much for this great post and especially for that picture of Linda Hamilton :-)!

However, I beg to differ. While I initially shared your sentiments about Gal Gadot (Jessica Biel probably would have been the perfect fit), I've made my peace with the casting after watching the trailers.

And, more to the point, where I'm coming from, fit (as in hardbody with abs) is the new slim and toned (as in serious muscles) is the new fit, and I think this is becoming the new generally accepted model of our time (we Germans call this "Zeitgeist" ;-)). That'll pass, unfortunately, too, but right now I think we are living in the Golden Age of Superwomen, literally.

As far as the character "Wonderwoman" is concerned, I think she's always been pictured as heavy-built (i.e. muscular, buff, tall) and that is the way it should be. Read the other day that Rhonda Rousey was interested, as was Gina Carano (or was it Captain Marvel?). Anyways, to spin it back, I'm personally fine with Gal Gadot.

And, before I forget it, this is a WW I setting. No Nazis right there.
Last Edit: 14 Mar 2017 01:59 by rebel4life.

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14 Mar 2017 02:17 - 14 Mar 2017 02:19 #53141 by lowerbase
Woman's height in movies is still a taboo

Very few movies we can see the actual height of a 'couple', ever since Humphrey Bogart wearing 10 inches platforms to film Casablanca with Ingrid Bergman, to Tom Cruise wearing his own platforms to shoot with Nicole Kidman

Few actresses I remember broke the rule, Sigorney Weaver, Gina Davis (both by Ridley Scott, btw)

I mean, Schwazenegger (Vin Diesel is even shorter) would look like a midget if his real height was revealed near Uma Thurman or Brooke Shields, imagine if they used them high heels as usual, it would break his 'alpha male' image forever.

Tom Hardy is shorter than Charlize Theron, and Fury Road was a 'progressive' movie, watching the movie, you would never guess

I think this is still a taboo. Maybe these days is even worse. In the 80's Pacino was short and it was okay for romance. That doesn't happen anymore.
Last Edit: 14 Mar 2017 02:19 by lowerbase.

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14 Mar 2017 04:33 #53143 by shadar

lowerbase wrote: Woman's height in movies is still a taboo

Very few movies we can see the actual height of a 'couple', ever since Humphrey Bogart wearing 10 inches platforms to film Casablanca with Ingrid Bergman, to Tom Cruise wearing his own platforms to shoot with Nicole Kidman

Few actresses I remember broke the rule, Sigorney Weaver, Gina Davis (both by Ridley Scott, btw)

I mean, Schwazenegger (Vin Diesel is even shorter) would look like a midget if his real height was revealed near Uma Thurman or Brooke Shields, imagine if they used them high heels as usual, it would break his 'alpha male' image forever.

Tom Hardy is shorter than Charlize Theron, and Fury Road was a 'progressive' movie, watching the movie, you would never guess

I think this is still a taboo. Maybe these days is even worse. In the 80's Pacino was short and it was okay for romance. That doesn't happen anymore.



I see it a bit differently. The average height for men in Europe is between 5'8 and 5'9. In the US, is about 5'9. Yet actress after actress in movies are either equal in height to the average man, or taller.

NIcole Kidman, Charlize Theron, Uma Thurman, Milla Jovovich, Jennifer Lawrence, Rebecca Romijin, Brooke Shields, Brigitte Nelson, Cameron Diaz, Gal Gadot... the list goes on. Not to mention athlete/actresses like Gabrielle Reece and a popular athlete like Maria Sharapova (who are both 6'3"). They've all been able to find work.
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14 Mar 2017 10:20 #53145 by kikass2014
Yeah even though Gadot has made "slight" improvements, I like Shadar have come to accept that this is what we are going to get and rationalize it internally.

The interesting point to me in this thread though has to be the one about stature. And when you think about it with regards to Wonder Woman, its actually quite apt.

One of my personal choices for the role, since they were going down that route, would have been Elizabeth Debicki. While having a similar body to Gadot, standing at around 6'2" she would have looked awesome. (Incidentally she is playing Ayesha in Guardians of the Galaxy 2)

Peace.

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14 Mar 2017 14:06 #53146 by Bert
Gal Gadot is reportedly 5' 10", which is clearly quite tall. She may have been too thin when she was cast, but she has transformed her body very impressively for this role. Personally, I think she looks absolutely amazing as Wonder Woman. As fans of superheroines, we have every right to be thrilled that a Wonder Woman movie is almost here, the producers have gone with a great costume design and the actress looks terrific in the role. We'll see when it's released, but considering the many ways this project could have gone tragically wrong, I'm fairly optimistic!

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14 Mar 2017 14:18 #53148 by shadar

Bert wrote: Gal Gadot is reportedly 5' 10", which is clearly quite tall. She may have been too thin when she was cast, but she has transformed her body very impressively for this role. Personally, I think she looks absolutely amazing as Wonder Woman. As fans of superheroines, we have every right to be thrilled that a Wonder Woman movie is almost here, the producers have gone with a great costume design and the actress looks terrific in the role. We'll see when it's released, but considering the many ways this project could have gone tragically wrong, I'm fairly optimistic!


Agreed... it's all about how she personally projects power and how the special effects and stunts are done. She could blow our socks off with massive strength and power scenes that come across as believable. Or not. The trailer is encouraging, but they can also be deceptive.

Remember that Gal actually has military training, including some exposures to hand-to-hand combat techniques. Not for the movies, but for real. Not many actresses can make that claim, if any. That said, I don't know if that actually means anything, other than she had to learn in an environment that wasn't filled with stunt doubles and special effects and people worried about her million dollar contracts and her looks.

I have no idea how the Israeli military trains its female soldiers... maybe someone has more insight and some speculation whether that could help her pretend to be projecting power in the movie.

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14 Mar 2017 16:11 #53152 by brantley
Speaking of women with military experience:

www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisi...ghters-idUSKBN12Y2DC

I wonder if we could find some superwoman models among them...

--Brantley

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14 Mar 2017 16:35 #53153 by jdrock24
I'll admit that I would have preferred an actress more fit than Gal Gadot when she was first cast. I mean, she looked really skinny in the pictures found on the internet at the time.

However, after seeing her in Batman v Superman and in the WW trailers, I have to admit that she looks good. I know some of that is "movie magic" but some of it has to be attributed to her hard work with her trainer.

I'm really excited for this movie. Can't wait until it is released. My family and I will be there opening weekend. My 11 year old daughter is especially excited.

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18 Mar 2017 16:25 #53204 by slim36
Debicki plays a lonely particle physicist in Gödel Incomplete (2013) - YouTube

Proxy Highlight

Oct 10, 2016 ... A time-travel romance between one of the great minds of the 20th Century, Kurt Godel, and a lonely particle physicist, Serita Cedric, a research

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18 Mar 2017 22:36 #53207 by rebel4life
Tja, Gödels Unvollständigkeitssatz. That's kind of a version of Schrödingers' Cat for philosophers. I'm just kidding.

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19 Mar 2017 18:31 #53221 by Artnico
Finally some feat of super strength... ?

Artnico.
"Superstrong women are sexy"

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20 Mar 2017 00:51 #53228 by slim36

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20 Mar 2017 23:54 - 21 Mar 2017 00:01 #53246 by Monty
Double post to link below
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2017 00:01 by Monty.

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20 Mar 2017 23:58 #53247 by Monty
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21 Mar 2017 00:45 #53248 by kikass2014
Interesting article. Didn't even know she was pregnant.

In regards to Wonder Woman, this part stood out for me:

"She comes from this world where men and women are equal and it’s not a thing to be a man or to be a woman."

Which world is that? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't Amazons suppose to see themselves superior to men? Going so far as to not allow men in their society (except for once a year for...er....hmm...)?

Could just be an oversight I guess.

Anywho, nice read. Thank you for the link.

Peace.

/K

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21 Mar 2017 02:46 #53250 by shadar

kikass2014 wrote: Interesting article. Didn't even know she was pregnant.

In regards to Wonder Woman, this part stood out for me:

"She comes from this world where men and women are equal and it’s not a thing to be a man or to be a woman."

Which world is that? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't Amazons suppose to see themselves superior to men? Going so far as to not allow men in their society (except for once a year for...er....hmm...)?

Could just be an oversight I guess.

Anywho, nice read. Thank you for the link.

Peace.

/K


Yeah, that was always the deal. If a man touched the sacred soil of Paradise Island, he had to die. That would have been Trevor's fate if not for Diana going rogue.

Amazons wanted nothing to do with Man's World as they called the rest of the planet. Men were NOT regarded well.

I don't recall, however, the canon for how children were conceived in Themosycra. (Other than Diana, of course). Perhaps someone else remembers.

Shadar

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21 Mar 2017 09:01 #53255 by Woodclaw

shadar wrote:

kikass2014 wrote: Interesting article. Didn't even know she was pregnant.

In regards to Wonder Woman, this part stood out for me:

"She comes from this world where men and women are equal and it’s not a thing to be a man or to be a woman."

Which world is that? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't Amazons suppose to see themselves superior to men? Going so far as to not allow men in their society (except for once a year for...er....hmm...)?

Could just be an oversight I guess.

Anywho, nice read. Thank you for the link.

Peace.

/K


Yeah, that was always the deal. If a man touched the sacred soil of Paradise Island, he had to die. That would have been Trevor's fate if not for Diana going rogue.

Amazons wanted nothing to do with Man's World as they called the rest of the planet. Men were NOT regarded well.

I don't recall, however, the canon for how children were conceived in Themosycra. (Other than Diana, of course). Perhaps someone else remembers.

Shadar


I think that Diana being the only child ever born on Theniscyra is kind of the point, she comes from a single gender society, so being male or female should be a non-issue for her. In my mind a lot of the problems between Diana and her mother comes down to the fact that Hippolyta experimented the cruelty of mankind first hand, whereas Diana never did, hence for Hippolyta men are monsters, but for her daughter they're just weirdly shaped people.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

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