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Questionaire Diskussion

22 Jun 2012 12:29 - 22 Jun 2012 12:39 #27675 by njae
Questionaire Diskussion was created by njae
I think it'll be a bit troublesome to combine the questionaire with a diskussion about it, so I figured it would be better to have a separate thread for it.

Here's argonaut's post from the questionaire thread:

argonaut wrote: There's a clear consensus that the SWMU should be set in a contemporary Earth, essentially identical to the world we live in except insofar as it's been affected by the presence of superwomen. Futuristic technologies might be introduced, however.

Of the 14 respondents, 10 say that superwomen are only just beginning to appear or have been around for a few decades at most. Clearly, then, they can not have had much impact on the course of history. But even the four respondents who say that superwomen have existed for hundreds or thousands of years say that they have not been a significant factor in historical events (except perhaps in a behind-the-scenes way). One "outlier" says that superwomen are "juggernauts" who have come to dominate the world.

A majority of respondents (9) say that the number of superwomen worldwide is in the hundreds or thousands. Four would put the number much lower (5-20).

Half the respondents (7) say that there are no supermen in the SWMU. Of the 7 that are okay with supermen, however, 5 stipulate that they are much less powerful than the superwomen, and fewer in number.

All but one respondent say that the existence of superwomen is public knowledge. (Although if superwomen are only just beginning to appear, their existence would be merely a rumor at first.)

All but one respondent are okay with some degree of variation in superwomen's power levels.

A majority (9) are okay with non-powered heroines.

Most agree that superwomen display a high degree of physical attractiveness. (I don't think we need to make that a rule, however.)

12 of the respondents say "no" to having celebrities and public figures appear under their real names (except maybe as background characters).

On these questions, I think we can mostly agree on the basic ground-rules of the SWMU. There's more disagreement as to the origin and nature of their powers (questions 8-13). That will the subject of my next post.



Thanks for this first analysis that shows the points with a clear trend.

I wouldn't include the "Are there supermen" question on those, though. It's about even and those who answered no didn't really explain how supermen would relate to superwomen IF they existed. This also depends on the power level and ability variation. Rules like "the most powerful superman is weaker than the weakest superwoman" get ridiculous if there may be superwomen withoug super strength. It's a bit strange that immortality and invulnerability are widely considered story-breaker powers that take away any tension but men aren't supposed to be any challenge whatsoever.
I don't want to say that superwomen and supermen should be equal in all terms, but in my opinion it would be better not to narrow their role down to losers that despite their powers can't come close to the superwomen around them. They may be less in numbers and don't have to appear in every story that's set in the SWMU.

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Last edit: 22 Jun 2012 12:39 by njae.
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22 Jun 2012 21:09 #27676 by eavatar
Replied by eavatar on topic Questionaire Diskussion
I think we need a new questionnaire just to define the origins questions and set a common ground about the power source and the basic explanations about the male-female differences.

Going ahead is the only one way to go to the future.

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23 Jun 2012 01:36 #27677 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questionaire Diskussion
However, anything designed by committee is going to be a big compromise. Not many books are written by committees, but rather from individual rules.

Makes more sense to me for everyone to write stories, but to pick up and use ideas that other writers have used, creating informal links between characters and story lines and over time, create a loosely related body of work.

Some general ideas about the "story space" are good, but trying to screw it down too tightly actually inhibits
imagination.

So I agree with Eavatar that a new survey that is simple and narrrowed to origin and story space makes sense. And then we go with he consensus (which in this case is probably a simple majority) of opinions. If it works for you, then jump in. If not, do your own thing.

The key is that you have to be motivated and excited about something to write a story. I've never worked on a committee where those words applied, but that might just be me.

Shadar

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23 Jun 2012 10:14 #27678 by eavatar
Replied by eavatar on topic Questionaire Diskussion
My idea is a single way to set the common grounds. Like I said a common power source is fine, all the rest is just room for speculation or trim the author's creativity. If anyone wish to add or change the questions go ahead, it is just a suggestion.

1) Which kind of power source you don't like (Magic, alien, genetic, evolution, etc)?

2) Do you think the powers must be accidental or deliberately given to the character? (consider genetic related powers as a given power)

3) Do you think the powers origin must be related to some external source? (magic, gods, elder races or aliens)

4) When during the XX century the super girl phenomena started, and do you think the first super girl became public?

5) Do you have plans to use the other members characters and villains/conflicts on your stories or not?

6) Do you would like take part of a more complete collective universe bible?

Answer yes or no (and why if you want to c0mment any question) for the questions bellow

1) Men with Powers

2) Unlimited power

3) Super Technology

4) Magic or magical devices

5) Alien Artifacts

Going ahead is the only one way to go to the future.

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23 Jun 2012 14:25 - 23 Jun 2012 18:09 #27679 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Questionaire Diskussion
An important question would also be

"How many different power sources/origins do you want/how many would you tolerate?"

This can go both ways of course, so someone might prefer to have one specific reason for powers but accept up to five (clearly defined) alterntives to choose from for his characters. Another may wish for as many possible ways, but wants at least three. Deciding one origin that makes everyone happy will be impossible, I remember someone ruling out alien giving powers to women and another wanting exactly this as the sole origin...

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Last edit: 23 Jun 2012 18:09 by njae. Reason: typo

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24 Jun 2012 04:07 - 24 Jun 2012 04:33 #27681 by argonaut
Replied by argonaut on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Whatever "origin scenario" we concoct for the SWMU should have these features:

1. There should be some common element to all of the transformations (for the sake of coherence).

2. There should be some leeway for writers (for the sake of variety).

3. The scenario should be simple. It's just a foundation for whatever stories we come up with. It shouldn't become their main focus.

I suggest something like the "meta-gene" that DC used for a while back in the 1980's. The idea is that a small number of humans carry a gene that can bring about spontaneous super-human transformations. Generally, some stressful event was needed in order to activate the gene. (For example, Barry Allen's meta-gene endowed him with super-speed when he was doused with chemicals that had been struck by lightning.)

So -- in the SWMU, a small number of women (and men?) possess an "uber-gene." In some, the gene brings about a gradual transformation into a superwoman (starting, say, in adolescence). In others, it remains latent until triggered by stress or some other factor. This is where writers would enjoy some leeway. Superwoman A's powers might have developed gradually when she was a teenager. Superwoman B's powers might have remained latent until an automobile accident caused her to manifest invulnerability and super-strength spontaneously. There might be stories in which an individual (or corporation or government) figures out a way to activate the gene artificially and starts looking for suitable subjects.

We could posit that only women carry this gene, or that something in the Y chromosome limits the expression of super-powers in males.

Instead of running questionnaire after questionnaire, why don't we allow a few days for discussion and then put my suggestion (or a modified version) to a yes-or-no vote?
Last edit: 24 Jun 2012 04:33 by argonaut.
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24 Jun 2012 21:22 #27683 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Maybe the metagene is on the X chromosome. You need at least one normal X chromosome to live (which the meta X is not), therefore, no men can have one and live. The Metagene X chromosome is suppressed, until something happens to express it. Leave it up to the writer on how and when this happens, and then what happens later. Pseudoscience at its finest!

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24 Jun 2012 23:05 #27684 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Questionaire Diskussion
The metagene is a possible way, but it doesn't really fit with the trend that superwomen are showing up just recently. I had a similar idea where (potential) supers were the descendants of humanoid aliens that came to earth once to balance their male-to-female-ratio. They needed women, so an all-male crew came to earth, fetched a few hundred and sent them back to their world while they stayed and commingled with humans. They and their offspring were worshipped as goods, but after a few generations the powers ceased to develop. There were only very few with actual powers, but since the beginning of the millenium the latent alien (or meta) genes seem to become active much more often. This would also allow for that same race to visit us again, this time an all-female crew looks for some male volunteers to travel to their planet full of super chicks. And since they preferred to send male supers, the super male to super female ratio is more to the liking of this community ;)
But as said before, this doesn't really fit into the whole "only appearing recently" part of the questionaire.

btw we really should discuss the super male question first before looking for ways to explain their absence.

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24 Jun 2012 23:38 #27685 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Ace idea are quite similar to what I had in mind.

ace191 wrote: Maybe the metagene is on the X chromosome. You need at least one normal X chromosome to live (which the meta X is not), therefore, no men can have one and live. The Metagene X chromosome is suppressed, until something happens to express it. Leave it up to the writer on how and when this happens, and then what happens later. Pseudoscience at its finest!


Over all this means that superwomen should be roughly twice as common as supermen, even if they can survive, but also means that the superwomen might become more subject to certain genetic problems. Women are generally less susceptibles to genetic diseases because the double X cromosome gave them a more effective backup. If the this function of the Metagened X is suppressed (as the impossibility of male supers seem to imply), then some superwomen might found themselves affected by illness like Beta-thalassemia.
Also this means that any male offspring of a superwoman will be either unpowered or result in a misscarriage.

njae wrote: The metagene is a possible way, but it doesn't really fit with the trend that superwomen are showing up just recently. I had a similar idea where (potential) supers were the descendants of humanoid aliens that came to earth once to balance their male-to-female-ratio. They needed women, so an all-male crew came to earth, fetched a few hundred and sent them back to their world while they stayed and commingled with humans. They and their offspring were worshipped as goods, but after a few generations the powers ceased to develop. There were only very few with actual powers, but since the beginning of the millenium the latent alien (or meta) genes seem to become active much more often. This would also allow for that same race to visit us again, this time an all-female crew looks for some male volunteers to travel to their planet full of super chicks. And since they preferred to send male supers, the super male to super female ratio is more to the liking of this community ;)
But as said before, this doesn't really fit into the whole "only appearing recently" part of the questionaire.

btw we really should discuss the super male question first before looking for ways to explain their absence.


Actually there are many possible explanations for the recent appearence, during the XX century technology had evolved at an accelerated rate, perhaps some external event has caused an acceleration in the metagene development.
Some time ago I tried to write a superheroic universe of my own, where the Tunguska event cause an exponantial increase in the number of metahumans all over the world.

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25 Jun 2012 06:51 #27689 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Questionaire Diskussion
.

[quote="

Over all this means that superwomen should be roughly twice as common as supermen, even if they can survive, but also means that the superwomen might become more subject to certain genetic problems. Women are generally less susceptibles to genetic diseases because the double X cromosome gave them a more effective backup. If the this function of the Metagened X is suppressed (as the impossibility of male supers seem to imply), then some superwomen might found themselves affected by illness like Beta-thalassemia.
Also this means that any male offspring of a superwoman will be either unpowered or result in a misscarriage.
.[/quote]

1) I am pretty sure that Beta Thalasemia is not on the X chromosome, otherwise every male on the planet would suffer from it.

2) The metagene would be handed down mother to daughter. 1/2 the daughters born to a superwoman would be super. Every son would not be. Therefore, it would be a rare thing. Maybe all the superwomen live together somewhere like, I don't know, Paradise Island, and for some reason (argument maybe) they have left there and spread to the four corners of the Earth. I guarantee you, my Superwoman will not be color blind (unless it helps the plot) or a hemophiliac!

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25 Jun 2012 10:16 #27692 by eavatar
Replied by eavatar on topic Questionaire Diskussion
It seems the metagene explanation is the popular trend. Maybe we can work at a common ground here. And definitively it is related to the double X chromosome, But the source of this metagene could be a mystery. My vote goes to "ancient forgotten space gods" which seeded the Earth with the Super X chromosome what could explain eventually some past story which someone else would like tell.

About the lack of super males or the small number of them my explanation is quite simple. The super X chromosome need another X chromosome to trigger and some environmental stimuli, which could be a random different genetic makeup, an accident, some degree of solar radiation or any idea you get to trigger it. An eventual super male could be like a genetic freak, maybe his regular X chromosome is the super X and he just had the right stimuli.

And the final issue, when the first super girl came, well, I suggest we set it in a key event, like the challenger explosion or Chernobyl accident as the trigger for the first super girl

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25 Jun 2012 10:52 #27693 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Let's not violate the rules of pseudoscience here. How about the guy just winds with XXY Genotype, AKA
Klinefelter's syndrome. There definitely should not be too many of these guys around!

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25 Jun 2012 12:25 #27694 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Could anybody explain to me why the base question about whether there are supermen and how they should relate to superwomen is downright ignored while the details as to why they don't exist get so much attention? The questionaire results didn't look that one-sided, so I expected more of a discussion here.

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25 Jun 2012 18:42 #27695 by yohashuan
Replied by yohashuan on topic Questionaire Diskussion
There should be one and only one superman - (let's just call him "Joe Hashuan") - and then all the superhot uberchicks should have a genetic condition that makes them fall madly, slavishly in love with him, and then they can spend the entire series of stories servicing him and catering to my (I mean his) sexual fantasies.

Just an idea.

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25 Jun 2012 21:24 #27697 by davidelliot2000
Replied by davidelliot2000 on topic Questionaire Diskussion
As to why no SUPERMEN
They are just not most of our cup of tea.
May not be realistic, but than nither are any fantasy's really.
Superwomen are our thing so to speak, as impregnable as they are we think they are
cool and want them in our world; including SUPERMEN and on a regular basis just makes Superfemme fans into unwanted and unessasary cockholds in our own fantasy world. YUCK!

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26 Jun 2012 00:47 #27698 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Questionaire Diskussion

davidelliot2000 wrote: As to why no SUPERMEN
They are just not most of our cup of tea.
May not be realistic, but than nither are any fantasy's really.
Superwomen are our thing so to speak, as impregnable as they are we think they are
cool and want them in our world; including SUPERMEN and on a regular basis just makes Superfemme fans into unwanted and unessasary cockholds in our own fantasy world. YUCK!


You make it sound like I don't know what this community is about ... ouch.

Btw 11 out of 19 people (so far) voted for the existance of supermen, so "most of us" don't want to rule them out. I'm not saying any of them actually prefer supermen over superwomen, but that's absolutely not the point. It's about the very possibility of using such characters. Everything else is up to the authors that write the story (and I dare Yosh to put that idea of his to paper :P )

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26 Jun 2012 01:54 #27699 by JKIJ
Replied by JKIJ on topic Questionaire Diskussion
I'd include supermen myself because I think that their existence gives more options for stories than there would be if the existence of supermen is completely ruled out. It's a preference for me rather than an outright necessity though.

Origin-wise I think the pseudo-scientific genetic explanation works well. To my mind it allows you to use pretty much whatever catalyst you choose. Even the less scientific ones such as magic could be justified as it could be either genuine magic caused the gene to acivate or it could be that a belief in magic caused exactly the same effect. I think we would need a specific and major event to cause the first activation(s) of the gene though.

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26 Jun 2012 09:13 #27701 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Questionaire Diskussion
Ok, I can see what this is going to boil down to.

Religion verses Darwinism

Bad Supergirls vs Good Supergirls.

Supermen in the universe, or NO Supermen.

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26 Jun 2012 11:11 #27702 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Questionaire Diskussion

Religion verses Darwinism


Fortunately this doesn't have to be decided for the SWMU... when in doubt it's up to the author

Bad Supergirls vs Good Supergirls.


Limiting it to one of the above would pretty much ruin the setting from the beginning. It has to be up to the author.

Supermen in the universe, or NO Supermen.


Only one of these two options gives the author a certain freedom...

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27 Jun 2012 04:42 #27703 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questionaire Diskussion
I like where this is going -- some very loose rules and lots of discretion to the author.

However, I would suggest that a single origin story be agreed upon but with enough breadth of design that authors can vary it to suit their stories. I would imagine a single enabling phenomena (a special set of ultra-genes or a mutagenic virus or a symbionic lifeform,etc) but one that manifests or triggers in various ways.

Beyond the origin, then writers can go where they will. It would be cool if authors tried to borrow something from earlier published stories in this new universe to use in their stories, and added their own bit to the universe for the next writer. That could include characters that we might borrow from each other to populate our stories with secondary characters.

That way the universe will grow richer with each story, and more interconnected, as long as it doesn't become too rigid or complicated. Authors can pick up as much or as little from other author's stories as they wish, the trick being to always allow for the other story's characters or situations to exist in parallel to our story.

Its also considerate to only use your own imagination to create your main character, but to both make new characters and use existing characters from other stories as antagonists, victims, companions in arms, lovers, etc.

It's great fun to see your favorite character getting "let out for a run" so to speak, by another author (as long as they return them in one piece at the end of their story.)

Shadar







njae wrote:

Religion verses Darwinism


Fortunately this doesn't have to be decided for the SWMU... when in doubt it's up to the author

Bad Supergirls vs Good Supergirls.


Limiting it to one of the above would pretty much ruin the setting from the beginning. It has to be up to the author.

Supermen in the universe, or NO Supermen.


Only one of these two options gives the author a certain freedom...

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