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Poll for Short workshop limit
21 Jul 2013 10:26 - 21 Jul 2013 10:39 #32390
by fats
Poll for Short workshop limit was created by fats
hi all,
With all the chat about what the workshop shoudld be in the chat room and the forum i thought it would be a good thing to set up a poll and get the matter resolved.
There are a number of advantages and disavatages to each poll option, it's up to you the membership to decide as to what the short workshop should be in lenght.
please do not post suggestions that are not there, i've set 8 poll options so there should be something for everyone.
This poll will run for 2 weeks so get voting.
fats
With all the chat about what the workshop shoudld be in the chat room and the forum i thought it would be a good thing to set up a poll and get the matter resolved.
There are a number of advantages and disavatages to each poll option, it's up to you the membership to decide as to what the short workshop should be in lenght.
please do not post suggestions that are not there, i've set 8 poll options so there should be something for everyone.
This poll will run for 2 weeks so get voting.
fats
Last edit: 21 Jul 2013 10:39 by fats.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Raa, Dru1076
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21 Jul 2013 12:23 #32391
by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Fats maybe you should have included a 1500 words option.
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21 Jul 2013 14:06 #32395
by fats
i can not add the 1500 word option, oce votes have been cast the poll can not be changes, the only way that i can add the 1500 vote is to delete the poll and restart a new one.
fats
Replied by fats on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Anon wrote: Fats maybe you should have included a 1500 words option.
i can not add the 1500 word option, oce votes have been cast the poll can not be changes, the only way that i can add the 1500 vote is to delete the poll and restart a new one.
fats
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21 Jul 2013 22:06 #32405
by pansardum
Replied by pansardum on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Those who vote for a 5000 word limit have, in my eyes, kinda missed the point of a short workshop. The challange to cramp a story/scene within the wordlimit diminishes for each word added. I know this doesn't fit all writers, but in my mind those votes are votes to remove the wordlimit all together.
To be honest I was even surprised to see that high numbers in the poll.
(ofc within reason, don't want to see any smartass comments about a riddiculous low wordlimit)
I voted on 2k, I didn't have anything against 1k but would like to try to add a bit more description or plot.
To be honest I was even surprised to see that high numbers in the poll.
(ofc within reason, don't want to see any smartass comments about a riddiculous low wordlimit)
I voted on 2k, I didn't have anything against 1k but would like to try to add a bit more description or plot.
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21 Jul 2013 22:12 #32406
by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
If voting for 5000 wasn't the point...Why was it added to the poll?
Guess who voted for 5000
Guess who voted for 5000
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22 Jul 2013 00:07 #32407
by Woodclaw
Because someone asked for it I guess.
Aside from that I have to agree with Pans putting the word limit so much higher than the original makes the difference between the two kind of workshops less significant (there are stories in the full-length workshops that are shorter than 5000 words).
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
d_k_c wrote: If voting for 5000 wasn't the point...Why was it added to the poll?
Guess who voted for 5000
Because someone asked for it I guess.
Aside from that I have to agree with Pans putting the word limit so much higher than the original makes the difference between the two kind of workshops less significant (there are stories in the full-length workshops that are shorter than 5000 words).
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22 Jul 2013 00:16 #32408
by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
I really wonder if that's true....
What if you took the stories in the longer WS and got an average word count?
I have no idea....But I'd bet it'd be around 10 000 word mark.
The shorter WS should be anything under 5000....I know, 5000 is extreme. But so is 1000
What if you took the stories in the longer WS and got an average word count?
I have no idea....But I'd bet it'd be around 10 000 word mark.
The shorter WS should be anything under 5000....I know, 5000 is extreme. But so is 1000
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22 Jul 2013 13:10 #32411
by Bernard72002
Replied by Bernard72002 on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Length should be 10,000 words.
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22 Jul 2013 21:55 #32418
by Woodclaw
No offense but 10000 words for a short story workshop is completly out of this world.
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Bernard72002 wrote: Length should be 10,000 words.
No offense but 10000 words for a short story workshop is completly out of this world.
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23 Jul 2013 01:13 - 23 Jul 2013 01:14 #32420
by castor
Replied by castor on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
I think it depends on what the concept of the project is.
I think one can define fiction loosely into four categories
1. very short stories-under 1500 words. This is the kind of stuff you find in like new yorker.
Like a lot of short writing its around-most essasys are this link most news articles are this length. You ocasionally see stories like this in the backs of comics. Its ike 1-2 pages.
Beyond that you have:
2. Short stories-under 10,00 words. You see this a lot in like books of short stories
3. novellas-between 10k and 50k.
4. Novels-over 50k.
I think the idea of this project is 1. It is a challenge to do one. I myself voted for a 1000 words-well cause thats a challenge. It was pliny who said i am sorry for writing you a long letter becuse i didn't have the time to write you a short one-and he is right.
Theres nothing wrong with 2 3 4. Hell i would be intrested in doing an over 50,000 contest-compleltly diffrent idea but a challenge.
I have had diffrent ideas-timed challenges etc, but the basic idea isn't a bad one and sould be respected.
my two cents
Castor
I think one can define fiction loosely into four categories
1. very short stories-under 1500 words. This is the kind of stuff you find in like new yorker.
Like a lot of short writing its around-most essasys are this link most news articles are this length. You ocasionally see stories like this in the backs of comics. Its ike 1-2 pages.
Beyond that you have:
2. Short stories-under 10,00 words. You see this a lot in like books of short stories
3. novellas-between 10k and 50k.
4. Novels-over 50k.
I think the idea of this project is 1. It is a challenge to do one. I myself voted for a 1000 words-well cause thats a challenge. It was pliny who said i am sorry for writing you a long letter becuse i didn't have the time to write you a short one-and he is right.
Theres nothing wrong with 2 3 4. Hell i would be intrested in doing an over 50,000 contest-compleltly diffrent idea but a challenge.
I have had diffrent ideas-timed challenges etc, but the basic idea isn't a bad one and sould be respected.
my two cents
Castor
Last edit: 23 Jul 2013 01:14 by castor.
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23 Jul 2013 05:48 #32421
by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
See, even Castor is saying a short story is a story under 10k.....so if I'm interpreting this correctly, this is not a short story WS but rather a short essay WS?
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23 Jul 2013 12:21 #32424
by Woodclaw
Okay I see the point of Castor and I have to admit that it editorial terms 10,000 words is a short story. Still, according to the tags, the majority of the installments on this site are between 2,500 and 10,000 words -- granted a fair share are actually chapters or multi-parts stories. Establishing a limit for a "short" workshop at 10,000 words will almost nullify the difference between the two kind of workshops. I can give you that the definition "short stories" here is misleading, but I honestly don't know how to call them otherwise.
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
castor wrote: I think it depends on what the concept of the project is.
I think one can define fiction loosely into four categories
1. very short stories-under 1500 words. This is the kind of stuff you find in like new yorker.
Like a lot of short writing its around-most essasys are this link most news articles are this length. You ocasionally see stories like this in the backs of comics. Its ike 1-2 pages.
Beyond that you have:
2. Short stories-under 10,00 words. You see this a lot in like books of short stories
3. novellas-between 10k and 50k.
4. Novels-over 50k.
I think the idea of this project is 1. It is a challenge to do one. I myself voted for a 1000 words-well cause thats a challenge. It was pliny who said i am sorry for writing you a long letter becuse i didn't have the time to write you a short one-and he is right.
Theres nothing wrong with 2 3 4. Hell i would be intrested in doing an over 50,000 contest-compleltly diffrent idea but a challenge.
I have had diffrent ideas-timed challenges etc, but the basic idea isn't a bad one and sould be respected.
my two cents
Castor
d_k_c wrote: See, even Castor is saying a short story is a story under 10k.....so if I'm interpreting this correctly, this is not a short story WS but rather a short essay WS?
Okay I see the point of Castor and I have to admit that it editorial terms 10,000 words is a short story. Still, according to the tags, the majority of the installments on this site are between 2,500 and 10,000 words -- granted a fair share are actually chapters or multi-parts stories. Establishing a limit for a "short" workshop at 10,000 words will almost nullify the difference between the two kind of workshops. I can give you that the definition "short stories" here is misleading, but I honestly don't know how to call them otherwise.
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23 Jul 2013 20:06 #32426
by fats
Replied by fats on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
i dont know if people read my opening post, i asked for no addional suggestions i think the 8 options is enough.
please keep voting
fats
please keep voting
fats
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24 Jul 2013 04:40 #32427
by castor
Oh come on if this all means so much to you guys just submit your stories.
I am doing one tonight.
DKC I'M sure its a very good story idea-while try doing it as a tweet story 144 character
That I'll teach you good economy of words.
Castor
Replied by castor on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
d_k_c wrote: See, even Castor is saying a short story is a story under 10k.....so if I'm interpreting this correctly, this is not a short story WS but rather a short essay WS?
Oh come on if this all means so much to you guys just submit your stories.
I am doing one tonight.
DKC I'M sure its a very good story idea-while try doing it as a tweet story 144 character
That I'll teach you good economy of words.
Castor
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24 Jul 2013 05:15 #32428
by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
As I've never participated in this WS....It doesn't mean that much to me at all. However, I can't help but wonder if I would participate in the WS if the word limit was higher.
At the end of the day, the goal is to have more participants not less. I think this poll isn't a deciding factor, but a tool to gage what others would like to see.
If I had a good idea and I thought it could be written in 1000 words, i'd certainly participate. I'm just not that good. But, If even one person says, "I wont participate if the word limit is changed" then don't change it.
And castor...I'm sure, as a rookie, you've got a billion ideas bouncing around up there. But us old dogs need Workshops, new ideas and topics to help us along
At the end of the day, the goal is to have more participants not less. I think this poll isn't a deciding factor, but a tool to gage what others would like to see.
If I had a good idea and I thought it could be written in 1000 words, i'd certainly participate. I'm just not that good. But, If even one person says, "I wont participate if the word limit is changed" then don't change it.
And castor...I'm sure, as a rookie, you've got a billion ideas bouncing around up there. But us old dogs need Workshops, new ideas and topics to help us along
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24 Jul 2013 05:43 #32429
by castor
Replied by castor on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Well i just kind of see it the exact other way.
To me the challenge makes it appealing.
I mean you could do timed challenges, length challenges, collab challenges, Format challenges(hey how about we have to do stories in verse), any number of ideas how to do a story. All are valid. But i do think there is just point in doing it.
1000 words can be a lot of fun to read. I have found memories of reading some of Asinovs great super short stories. 1000 doesn't let you bloat things. It can be hard to write and use parts of your brain that you don't normally do.
In all honesty its not the challenge i would have done but if thats what the page wants to do it should do it. Let it be hard. Don't make it easy on yourself.
I maybe newer at this then some, and don't mean to lecture the old hands here, but well, i do think strongly that 1000 words is the right number.
Castor
To me the challenge makes it appealing.
I mean you could do timed challenges, length challenges, collab challenges, Format challenges(hey how about we have to do stories in verse), any number of ideas how to do a story. All are valid. But i do think there is just point in doing it.
1000 words can be a lot of fun to read. I have found memories of reading some of Asinovs great super short stories. 1000 doesn't let you bloat things. It can be hard to write and use parts of your brain that you don't normally do.
In all honesty its not the challenge i would have done but if thats what the page wants to do it should do it. Let it be hard. Don't make it easy on yourself.
I maybe newer at this then some, and don't mean to lecture the old hands here, but well, i do think strongly that 1000 words is the right number.
Castor
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25 Jul 2013 04:39 - 25 Jul 2013 04:44 #32441
by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
I really do not like the 1000 word limit as it puts me at a disadvantage for a couple of reasons. 1) the truly great wordsmiths like CF, LFan, Argo and MarkNew have a decided advantage here. Second, you have to go over and over it tweaking, cutting, pumping it up while staying under the limit and to me it is just too much effort. I voted for 2500 which should provide a chance to get a good story with word efficiency, but not one that you would have to tweak and tweak and tweak.
And then there is the fact that I have already come up with an idea for it that I think I can do in 2500 words.
And then there is the fact that I have already come up with an idea for it that I think I can do in 2500 words.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 04:44 by ace191.
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25 Jul 2013 17:03 #32445
by njae
Only lfan participated in one of the SWM short workshops and I'm not really sure what kind of advantage you mean that has anything to do with the word limit.
Pumping it up to reach 1000 words? I can understand the need to cut it down, but the pumping up problem would get worse with a rising word limit.
Replied by njae on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
ace191 wrote: I really do not like the 1000 word limit as it puts me at a disadvantage for a couple of reasons. 1) the truly great wordsmiths like CF, LFan, Argo and MarkNew have a decided advantage here.
Only lfan participated in one of the SWM short workshops and I'm not really sure what kind of advantage you mean that has anything to do with the word limit.
ace191 wrote: Second, you have to go over and over it tweaking, cutting, pumping it up while staying under the limit and to me it is just too much effort. I voted for 2500 which should provide a chance to get a good story with word efficiency, but not one that you would have to tweak and tweak and tweak.
And then there is the fact that I have already come up with an idea for it that I think I can do in 2500 words.
Pumping it up to reach 1000 words? I can understand the need to cut it down, but the pumping up problem would get worse with a rising word limit.
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25 Jul 2013 20:08 #32447
by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
What I believe Ace means is ....Pumping up certain parts. You know, the ones all of us want to read. And then having to cut into the story line because you've gone over your limit.
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26 Jul 2013 10:32 - 26 Jul 2013 13:02 #32456
by ace191
Exactly!
Replied by ace191 on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
What I believe Ace means is ....Pumping up certain parts. You know, the ones all of us want to read. And then having to cut into the story line because you've gone over your limit.
Exactly!
Last edit: 26 Jul 2013 13:02 by Woodclaw.
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29 Jul 2013 11:15 #32503
by fats
Replied by fats on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
bump
fats
fats
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30 Jul 2013 06:52 #32511
by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
After analyzing the data tonight, I would propose a run off between the top two. This is of course mainly to serve my own selfish interests. It appears that 5000 words may come out the winner, and my choice the 2500 may come in third, so hopefully if there is a run off, 2000 words will get all the votes of the 2500 word folks and defeat the evil 5000 word voters.
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30 Jul 2013 08:02 #32512
by njae
I'm not really sure there's time for that since the short workshop is supposed to start the moment the normal workshop ends.
Looking at the current results I'm happy that I cast my vote to 2000 words despite prefering 1000 words. Anything more would be too much for me.
Replied by njae on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
ace191 wrote: After analyzing the data tonight, I would propose a run off between the top two. This is of course mainly to serve my own selfish interests. It appears that 5000 words may come out the winner, and my choice the 2500 may come in third, so hopefully if there is a run off, 2000 words will get all the votes of the 2500 word folks and defeat the evil 5000 word voters.
I'm not really sure there's time for that since the short workshop is supposed to start the moment the normal workshop ends.
Looking at the current results I'm happy that I cast my vote to 2000 words despite prefering 1000 words. Anything more would be too much for me.
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30 Jul 2013 22:25 #32517
by fats
there will only a run off if 2 or more get the same vote count at the end.
fats
Replied by fats on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
ace191 wrote: After analyzing the data tonight, I would propose a run off between the top two. This is of course mainly to serve my own selfish interests. It appears that 5000 words may come out the winner, and my choice the 2500 may come in third, so hopefully if there is a run off, 2000 words will get all the votes of the 2500 word folks and defeat the evil 5000 word voters.
there will only a run off if 2 or more get the same vote count at the end.
fats
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31 Jul 2013 02:45 #32519
by ong76win2
Replied by ong76win2 on topic Poll for Short workshop limit
Voted for 2000.
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