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2014 and the future

26 Aug 2013 17:15 #32780 by fats
2014 and the future was created by fats
hi all,

as I mentioned in my front page blog post, I want to have a discussion on the future of the workshops and how they are run.

my main questions are:-

Are there too many workshops?
Is the timing working for people?
Can we do them differently? If so how?

this is an open thread so no idea is a bad idea.

Fats
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27 Aug 2013 00:15 #32785 by Dru1076
Replied by Dru1076 on topic 2014 and the future
I don't think there's too many workshops...but I'm know that more workshops doesn't necessarily mean more stories will be written.

The only thing I'd like to suggest is the possibility of placing a list of recieved prior to the opening of the workshop poll so everyone who wants to enter is certain their entry is the running. I, for example, cannot submit directly to the library. Just a thought....
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27 Aug 2013 01:07 #32787 by fats
Replied by fats on topic 2014 and the future

Dru1076 wrote: I, for example, cannot submit directly to the library. Just a thought....


please let me know why you can not post to the library, is there any tech reasons or are you coming up with error messages or do you need a guide to do it.

fats
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27 Aug 2013 02:11 #32789 by Dru1076
Replied by Dru1076 on topic 2014 and the future
It's nothing to do the website...it's my outdated Nokia. The device is unable to use many website correctly. I think the submission page is very easy to understand, and simple to use. Just not if you've got an old symbian device like mine.

I want my iphone back....
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27 Aug 2013 20:41 #32803 by njae
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Are there too many workshops?
Is the timing working for people?
Can we do them differently? If so how?



I've always hoped we could actually get to the four workshops per year that the seasonal naming suggested - as can be seen by the suggested schedule I posted at the beginning of the year in the admin corner. Too bad we didn't manage to get the workshop closer to the seasons they're named after.

As of having them be different ... please make the next poll about the stories, not the authors. It's been stated countless times, but this time it even spawned a thread about it.

Just my two cents btw, it's not much since it probably won't affect me in the future.
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28 Aug 2013 22:00 #32811 by sgfan05
Replied by sgfan05 on topic 2014 and the future
Now I haven't participated in the work shops so hope I'm not speaking out when I shouldn't but here's my thoughts.

I don't think we have too few work shops. A long and a short every season seems to work out pretty well. We get a few different entries each time.

I do keep saying I'm going to join a work shop but haven't done it. Not because of any reason on this end more just that RL or other things I write get in the way.
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29 Aug 2013 19:47 #32826 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic 2014 and the future
Okay I've shared my thoughts often enough in the chat, but here they are:
  1. I think that the current number of workshop (2 long and 2 short each year) is a reasonable number that works with the number of people in our community. More than that will probably discourage some authors and/or make the quality of the entries drop drammaticaly;
  2. I think that the timetable worked out by Njae back in the day was fine, we need to fine tune the time, based on the general situation, but I think it worked and we should keep it.
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29 Aug 2013 21:06 #32827 by njae
Replied by njae on topic 2014 and the future

Anon wrote: Okay I've shared my thoughts often enough in the chat, but here they are:

  1. I think that the current number of workshop (2 long and 2 short each year) is a reasonable number that works with the number of people in our community. More than that will probably discourage some authors and/or make the quality of the entries drop drammaticaly;
  2. I think that the timetable worked out by Njae back in the day was fine, we need to fine tune the time, based on the general situation, but I think it worked and we should keep it.


Actually there were two timetables suggested by me back then - and none of them have ever progressed past the state of being a suggestion (actually I can't remember of anything in that thread actually being decided...). Even back then (6 months ago) it was clear that the suggestions couldn't be actually followed before 2014 because we would have needed to catch up to that schedule. Needless to say we failed to do so, because strictly speaking we never tried. Thankfully we did get three workshops done this year and only a small has yet to follow. If all goes well that would be the first time for this to happen.

Since the thread containing my suggestions from six months ago is part of the admin section, it may help to post it here.

First we should decide on the length of the workshops. Two months for the short workshop should suffice, the long could take up to four.

Variant 1
Winter: January-February
Spring: March-June
Summer: July-August
Fall: September-December

Variant 2
Another variant could be (with a bit less of a lenght gap between short and long workshop):
Winter: December 1st - February 14th
Spring: February 15th - Mai 31st
Summer: June 1st - August 15th
Fall: August 16th-November 30th

As you can see the short workshop takes 2.5 months while the long takes 3.5.

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02 Sep 2013 14:35 #32850 by fats
Replied by fats on topic 2014 and the future
ok, here is my ideas for this topic.
  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats
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02 Sep 2013 14:53 #32851 by Camille Jones
Replied by Camille Jones on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: ok, here is my ideas for this topic.

  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats


Hmmm, well not get rid of seasonal but have them only for Spring, Fall and Winter.
An annual workshop can work as well.
Picture workshops sound good, though is it just pictures or pictures with a small story next to it.
I like the idea of barring the winner from competing in order to give new authors a chance and to keep it from stagnating.
One line workshops are actually fun, you can actually just make it as a thread and it's always interesting to see where the story goes.
Non-English workshops would be awesome actually.
I would also like to listen to audio workshop.

You'd think that superspeed would make me more punctual, huh?
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02 Sep 2013 17:31 #32852 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: ok, here is my ideas for this topic.

  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats


^^This! I think migrating the SS Workshops to "special occassions" is a good idea. I also agree that trimming the fulllength workshops to 3 a year is good as well. I would suggest that one of the workshops be dedicated to a collaborative/open WS to help foster team creativity.

I don't know the specifics of the "dedicated workshop" but I would question the dedicating a year to ANYTHING would be useful, as I personally would think the users would only use a couple of months of that to produce content (though I may be wrong) and/or forget about it.

I think the graphical workshops are good and look excited towards them, though I see them more as one-shot pinups or posters depicting a scene or idea rather than a "graphical story-telling"

My $.02
ElF
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02 Sep 2013 21:54 - 02 Sep 2013 21:56 #32853 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic 2014 and the future
Just to chime in with a tid bit: It's possible I'd enter a "short story" workshop (I've wanted to in the past) because a full length story is just too daunting for me with PSW on the side. The graphical workshop I'd be in on. It just is more my skill, interest, and what I have time for.
Last edit: 02 Sep 2013 21:56 by Random321.
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03 Sep 2013 01:35 #32857 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic 2014 and the future
If it isn't broke...don't fix it

To comment on fats suggestions

1. I think four works - 2 shorts - 2 long work....swm seems to have the right # of participants for each ws. Until that changes, I'd leave it the same.
2. Have works shops for easter and Christmas? What...like a seasonal thing....Like we have now?
3. Dedicating a WS for a year is tough...Ive never been committed to a story for longer than a few months.
4. A picture WS? Maybe even a live action comic.....Now that would be an awesome idea!
5. Ban the winner? Ummm Not since Conceptfan have I ever seen back to back wins.....Or am I wrong?
6. One line....meh....But, what about a choose your own adventure type story. I remember back in the day these were done. It'd be cool to see it again
7. No thanks
8. I have no idea how that would work
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03 Sep 2013 06:25 #32862 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic 2014 and the future
#5 that is the american way. If you can't beat them, bar them!
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03 Sep 2013 07:14 #32864 by njae
Replied by njae on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: ok, here is my ideas for this topic.

  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats


1. Against it. I was against it during the Townhall meeting and I'm still against it now. And with the second suggestion, the amount of workshops actually RISES here.
2. Short workshops only for festivities? As if the raise of the word limit wasn't enough already. These special occasions already will produce their amount of stories, so it would be useless to make a workshop of it - especially every year.
3. As I mentioned before, the more I think about it, the less I like that idea. Focussing on one project for a whole year isn't something an amateur like me can do. Besides being rather feedback-driven (and waiting a whole year surely doesn't help) it's also hard to work on other projects in the meantime. Even worse, I find it really hard to continue a project once I put it on the site for a workshop.
4. Picture and Art workshops would be a totally different category imho and thus be independent of the workshops we have so far. Other than that I'm for it.
5. While the last poll wasn't exactly encouraging, I'm not sure if banning the winner would help here. As d_k_c pointed out, there haven't been any back-to-back wins lately and before that happens there's no reason for that.
6. I hardly see the one line part as a workshop, more like a forum thread or a chat game. Trying a choose your own adventure has been discussed before, not sure if it could work since most stories of that kind somehow escalated quickly.
7. And what languages would that be? I don't really see us having the numbers to pull that off.
8. The flaw here is the how the audio entries come to be. While I would enjoy to hear it, I certainly don't see a way I could produce one.
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06 Sep 2013 18:24 #32913 by njae
Replied by njae on topic 2014 and the future
*bump*

come on guys, there have to be more of you with an opinion about how to proceed in the future...
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06 Sep 2013 19:00 #32914 by castor
Replied by castor on topic 2014 and the future
get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long

I don't see the seasonal workshops as a bad thing

have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events

This isn't a bad idea. i have suggested doing like 24 hour or 48 contests. Doing short contests isn't a bad one

have dedicated workshops that last a year

I also like this one. Like i said if it gets one entry it could be fun.

picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running

This is a great idea. We maybe can do sepearate drawing, and photomanip contest, or maybe just one.

ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating

Don't see the point.

one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on

That could be fun-but thats less a workshop then a shared story.

have the workshops in languages other than english

not inherently Tricky-is there a non english language on the site that really gets people?

audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

I am playing around with something like that right now, but *sounds*...


castor
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07 Sep 2013 11:46 #32927 by SHTL
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really happy if will be "other languages section", italian included, not because is so important here (we are very few italians here i imagine) but because could be a first stone to the develop of superfem world also in many other countries (and if i will have time i can myself promote in italy our ideas with an italin SMW similar website... ;)..
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07 Sep 2013 21:32 #32934 by fats
Replied by fats on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: ok, here is my ideas for this topic.

  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats


Ok I've had a chat with lfan and he has asked me to generate a more concrete set of plans for the ideas that I have posted.

So here goes.

For the three evenly spaced long workshops I'm proposing the following dates for the workshops.
  • 5th January 2014 to the 2nd March 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks
  • 4th May 2014 to 6th July 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks
  • 6th September 2014 to 2nd November 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks

As you can see there will be months with no workshops this is to allow flexibility in the timing.

For the short workshops I propose that we have up to 3 workshops each lasting 3 weeks for the writing and 1 week for voting.these could be run in the months that have no long workshop.

For the ultra long workshop that last a year I'm going to edit my idea and make that a collaborative workshop that could work and it would also be good for the idea of having more than 2 writers involved say a team working on it.

For the picture I would go with the idea of starting that at the start of the year, running that over a 4 month timescale.

I'm going to withdraw the idea of banning the previous winner.

For the one line workshop I propose that a forum thread to be created for the start of the story and people can join in at any time.

For the non english workshops I would need an idea as to what languages people would want to work in, once i have an idea as to the number we can get that setup early next year.

The audio workshop is one where there is still a lot more feedback needed to be able to run that idea.

None of this is set in stone, but I wanted you all to know where i was going with it.

Fats
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07 Sep 2013 22:57 #32937 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: ok, here is my ideas for this topic.

  1. get rid of seasonal workshops, replace them with three evenly spaced out workshops all long
  2. have short workshops for events e.g Xmas, major sporting events
  3. have dedicated workshops that last a year
  4. picture workshops, something that i was going to do this year, but never got the time to get it up and running
  5. ban a winner of a workshop competing in the next one, that way we can prevent a one writer from dominating
  6. one line workshops, a workshop where people write a line of a story and another writer writes the next line and so on and so on
  7. have the workshops in languages other than english
  8. audio workshops where stories are submitted in audio format rather than in written format.

these are a few of the hundreds of ideas that are floating around in my head, all to do with the workshops.

fats


Okay let's answer in order.
  1. I'm not too keen on this idea, on one hand we haven't had a proper year of workshops so far, before changing the format I think that we have to verify if the current one works;
  2. this might work - although I have to agree with Njae's point that these events already produce their own influx of stories - also I'm not sure which format we might use, but it might work, still we need a working calendar of main workshops before planning for anything more;
  3. this idea has been floating around for a long time and it's kind of a sore spot for me: focussing on a single project for a whole year, while simultaneously working on a couple of seasonal workshops and personal stories seem a little too much for me at the moment; I'0m very sorry, but I'm against it;
  4. picture workshops aren't my thing so I'm not interested in this particular section;
  5. the ban has been discussed even on the old site from time to time, I have to agree with Njae that it seem unnecessary at the moment; on the other hand I have to admit that sometimes I have distinct impression that, no matter what, the rose of the workshop winners will never grow much;
  6. there already was something like this, it was called "Interactive Story" and that section has been long abandoned;
  7. while I would like to see more of this, we have to know how many authors and reader there are for any language other than English;
  8. not too keen on this one either, audio might be tricky to produce.
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07 Sep 2013 23:10 #32938 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic 2014 and the future

fats wrote: Ok I've had a chat with lfan and he has asked me to generate a more concrete set of plans for the ideas that I have posted.

So here goes.

For the three evenly spaced long workshops I'm proposing the following dates for the workshops.

  • 5th January 2014 to the 2nd March 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks
  • 4th May 2014 to 6th July 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks
  • 6th September 2014 to 2nd November 2014 with voting to take place over 2 weeks

As you can see there will be months with no workshops this is to allow flexibility in the timing.

For the short workshops I propose that we have up to 3 workshops each lasting 3 weeks for the writing and 1 week for voting.these could be run in the months that have no long workshop.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this plan, aside from my previous commentary about not having a full year with the current set-up. This plan litter the whole year with workshops in one form or another, making it very hard for some authors to work on their own personal projects. While participating a workshop is always a choice, having a year so full might have one of two effects: draining resources (mostly time) from personal projects, makign the workshop entries the only new material in the Library; or reducing the number of participants to the workshops.

fats wrote: For the ultra long workshop that last a year I'm going to edit my idea and make that a collaborative workshop that could work and it would also be good for the idea of having more than 2 writers involved say a team working on it.


Worksing on this as a team effort might do the trick, although I remain convinced that one year is probably too long.
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07 Sep 2013 23:26 #32940 by fats
Replied by fats on topic 2014 and the future
thank you all for your comments, the boss man has told me to just implement the plan so with that in mind I'm going to close this thread.

fats
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