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Vartox cast?

17 Mar 2015 17:53 #41009 by lfan
Vartox cast? was created by lfan
Some rumors swirling that Owain Yeoman from the Mentalist will play the DC superhero Vartox in the show. Here is some more on him (Vartox, not Owain Yeoman):

www.comicvine.com/vartox/4005-13078/

Proof will be in the pudding but cannot say I'm getting a good feeling about the "Rogue's Gallery" they are assembling. First Lumberjack, now Vartox? I hope Wynn become Toyman rather quickly......

ElF

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17 Mar 2015 18:41 - 17 Mar 2015 18:45 #41011 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Vartox cast?
I was just going to comment that Well yeah going for a Rouge centric casting philosphy can have mixed results-Gotham seems a lot more concerned in building up Penguin based on half remembered ideas, Flash seems a little dependent on "lets introduce the Rouge Gallery". Supergirl(and yeah lets face it Superman) often works best when you defocus a little on the villians and instead on what she wants to do and can she acomplish it....But then i remembered.

Shit man, Vartox is the fucking best!!!!!

There going with Vartox. Damm thats a great call

For those unfamiliar: He was a 70s clone of Sean Connery from Zardoz, who superman and others of the period enocuntered as a kind of representation of DEEP SPACE, a kind of trippy character who the met when they where going for a gritty science fiction feel pre Star Wars. A guy who can beat up Superman if he wanted to, but usually could be convienced not to.

Then nothing happened for 20 or so years.

But then....oh then....

How to describe the joy that is Vartox?

He is a king of an alien planet-that is both very much like Earth and Not. Hes an honorable Warrior. Hes lonely. Hes very annoing, and a touch of a jerk. Hes kind of like something you would see in a 70s science fiction movie just whole cloth.... like they didn't change a damm thing. He is right out of maybe a very late epiosde of Star Trek. And he is utterlly confident in his ability with the ladies.

And that kind of makes him just awesome. Hes more then a touch Silly in a modern comicbook- but he is just a throwback to a simultaniously darker and more innocent time that makes his stories have a note of awe in them.

And i hope he isn't the villain.

Hes the Antagonist sure-he comes to earth and chaos follows him, and usually the store involves making him leave it-but he means no harm to anyone. He doesn't want to take over the earth, but usually to make sexy time with Power Girl. (Maybe in this case Supergir)l. Most of his stories involve just trying to deal with her rejection, depite his really awesome mustache.

Hes not a character you would want as the main villian of anything-but yeah an episode that isn't to grim and serious....He probabbly would have fit very well now that i think about it in Lois and Clark.

I would never in a million years have said "okay Vartox is a character we would see in Live Action" . You could easily screw him up.- but yes we do live in intresting times.
Last edit: 17 Mar 2015 18:45 by castor.

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17 Mar 2015 19:10 #41012 by mo
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Amazing post Castor! Especially the line about the mustache :-)

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17 Mar 2015 19:16 #41013 by castor
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17 Mar 2015 21:25 #41015 by shadar
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castor wrote: I was just going to comment that Well yeah going for a Rouge centric casting philosphy can have mixed results-Gotham seems a lot more concerned in building up Penguin based on half remembered ideas, Flash seems a little dependent on "lets introduce the Rouge Gallery". Supergirl(and yeah lets face it Superman) often works best when you defocus a little on the villians and instead on what she wants to do and can she acomplish it....But then i remembered.

Shit man, Vartox is the fucking best!!!!!

There going with Vartox. Damm thats a great call

For those unfamiliar: He was a 70s clone of Sean Connery from Zardoz, who superman and others of the period enocuntered as a kind of representation of DEEP SPACE, a kind of trippy character who the met when they where going for a gritty science fiction feel pre Star Wars. A guy who can beat up Superman if he wanted to, but usually could be convienced not to.

Then nothing happened for 20 or so years.

But then....oh then....

How to describe the joy that is Vartox?

He is a king of an alien planet-that is both very much like Earth and Not. Hes an honorable Warrior. Hes lonely. Hes very annoing, and a touch of a jerk. Hes kind of like something you would see in a 70s science fiction movie just whole cloth.... like they didn't change a damm thing. He is right out of maybe a very late epiosde of Star Trek. And he is utterlly confident in his ability with the ladies.

And that kind of makes him just awesome. Hes more then a touch Silly in a modern comicbook- but he is just a throwback to a simultaniously darker and more innocent time that makes his stories have a note of awe in them.

And i hope he isn't the villain.

Hes the Antagonist sure-he comes to earth and chaos follows him, and usually the store involves making him leave it-but he means no harm to anyone. He doesn't want to take over the earth, but usually to make sexy time with Power Girl. (Maybe in this case Supergir)l. Most of his stories involve just trying to deal with her rejection, depite his really awesome mustache.

Hes not a character you would want as the main villian of anything-but yeah an episode that isn't to grim and serious....He probabbly would have fit very well now that i think about it in Lois and Clark.

I would never in a million years have said "okay Vartox is a character we would see in Live Action" . You could easily screw him up.- but yes we do live in intresting times.


Didn't he once try to abduct Supergirl to become his bride? After blasting her with some kind of weapon. Maybe the "seduction musk rifle". Or am I thinking of someone else?

Regardless, if they play this guy straight from the comics, he's going to break every rule in the "politically correct" rule book. As well as offend anyone who doesn't think women should be objectified and exploited. A super-womanizer. Pickup artist to the 10th power.

In 2015, that would make him a villain. After all, he was a womanizer back when womanizing was more or less acceptable... 1960's and before, As you mentioned, like the early James Bond movies, where James always got the hot woman/girl to engage in what was often gratuitous sex.

Shadar

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17 Mar 2015 23:56 #41016 by castor
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shadar wrote:
Didn't he once try to abduct Supergirl to become his bride? After blasting her with some kind of weapon. Maybe the "seduction musk rifle". Or am I thinking of someone else?

Regardless, if they play this guy straight from the comics, he's going to break every rule in the "politically correct" rule book. As well as offend anyone who doesn't think women should be objectified and exploited. A super-womanizer. Pickup artist to the 10th power.

In 2015, that would make him a villain. After all, he was a womanizer back when womanizing was more or less acceptable... 1960's and before, As you mentioned, like the early James Bond movies, where James always got the hot woman/girl to engage in what was often gratuitous sex.

Shadar


He would.....iexcept well the musk gun doesn't actually work at all. Hes mostly pretty harmless, He just comes in tries to impress power girl and-well.....it worked exactly once in one of the werider bits of the palmer era. He is the 70s played very tounge and cheek.

Actually Shadar he struck me this afternoon very much something you would come up with, if you where trying to write a comedy version of one of your classic tales-someone who came to earth with the express purpose of mating with a velorian-and in the process maybe getting to be a pain in the ass.

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18 Mar 2015 00:31 #41017 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Vartox cast?

castor wrote:

shadar wrote:
Didn't he once try to abduct Supergirl to become his bride? After blasting her with some kind of weapon. Maybe the "seduction musk rifle". Or am I thinking of someone else?

Regardless, if they play this guy straight from the comics, he's going to break every rule in the "politically correct" rule book. As well as offend anyone who doesn't think women should be objectified and exploited. A super-womanizer. Pickup artist to the 10th power.

In 2015, that would make him a villain. After all, he was a womanizer back when womanizing was more or less acceptable... 1960's and before, As you mentioned, like the early James Bond movies, where James always got the hot woman/girl to engage in what was often gratuitous sex.

Shadar


He would.....iexcept well the musk gun doesn't actually work at all. Hes mostly pretty harmless, He just comes in tries to impress power girl and-well.....it worked exactly once in one of the werider bits of the palmer era. He is the 70s played very tounge and cheek.

Actually Shadar he struck me this afternoon very much something you would come up with, if you where trying to write a comedy version of one of your classic tales-someone who came to earth with the express purpose of mating with a velorian-and in the process maybe getting to be a pain in the ass.


You might be right on the last... could actually be a fun story. Given that Velorians are infamously promiscuousness, we have this alien, Vartox, who comes to Earth from halfway across the galaxy, who thinks no woman can resist him. He's going to hook up with a famous Velorian. But she sees right through him, and when he tries harder, he just pisses her off. She might be with a different man every day, but that man is never going to be him.

Now, given that it is not easy to travel a billion light years or so, even for advanced aliens, Vartox is going to be disappointed and angry. So, does he try even harder, or does he try to get even?

One way just proves how big a fool he is. The other way leads to villainy. Are there other choices?

Shadar

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18 Mar 2015 00:46 #41018 by castor
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If a theme of the show is "I'm an alien-how do i fit into this world"

Vartox can be an intresting counterpoint. He Doesn't. Not at all. Hes not evil, but he can be a bull in a china shop. How the world reacts to him and how Kara reacts to him could actually be a good bit.

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18 Mar 2015 01:20 #41019 by lfan
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My particular issue with Vartox, as he traditionally is portrayed could go,one of two ways:

A). He plays it straight which as mentioned before, will offend the hell out of the female audience. After making deliberate strides to not objectify Suoergirl as a sex object, this would seem a 180 in the opposite direction although I think this would be the more usable premise

B). They play him less than serious which IMO would portray him as a buffoon and not to be taking seriously. In doing this, I think they start to tread into the cheesy area which I think would be a bad play on their part.

In terms of the intergalactic suitor, Maxima I see as a semi-equivalent character in SUPERMAN'S Universe, but she has always been a better character and one to be taken seriously although she always fails in getting what she wants. I just can't get excited about the concept of an intergalactic "caller".for Supergirl unless they play it semi straight.

In terms of other villains, I would have liked to see others before Vartox......psi, lobo, livewire, intergang, etc.

ElF

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18 Mar 2015 04:44 #41021 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Vartox cast?

lfan wrote: My particular issue with Vartox, as he traditionally is portrayed could go,one of two ways:

A). He plays it straight which as mentioned before, will offend the hell out of the female audience. After making deliberate strides to not objectify Suoergirl as a sex object, this would seem a 180 in the opposite direction although I think this would be the more usable premise

B). They play him less than serious which IMO would portray him as a buffoon and not to be taking seriously. In doing this, I think they start to tread into the cheesy area which I think would be a bad play on their part.

In terms of the intergalactic suitor, Maxima I see as a semi-equivalent character in SUPERMAN'S Universe, but she has always been a better character and one to be taken seriously although she always fails in getting what she wants. I just can't get excited about the concept of an intergalactic "caller".for Supergirl unless they play it semi straight.

In terms of other villains, I would have liked to see others before Vartox......psi, lobo, livewire, intergang, etc.

ElF


I agree on the last... I was surprised to see his name so early. I'm having trouble envisioning any way for him to be a serious, credible threat to SG unless 1) they make him less slimy and even likable (at least at first), and 2) Linda is insecure and a bit idealistic (innocent) about men and he can take advantage of that. At first, anyway.

The insecurity could be explained by her seeing herself as a bit of a freak. She's afraid that if anyone gets too close, they'll find that she's too strong or too something. Or maybe she's afraid of a "reverse Niven". She presumably knows the challenges Kal/Clark has faced in that area. So maybe she's afraid of herself. Afraid she'll hurting someone. Or just freak them out.

Maybe Vartox somehow helps her get past that. The critical part for me is that he knows who and what she is. He will relate to her as a Kryptonian, not a human. Clark and her adoptive family have always treated her as a human with some weird disability. Telling her constantly to hide her true self. Now Vartox comes by likes her for her Kryptonian self. This allows her to be herself. Something she's forgotten know how to do.

Anyway, this could partially open the door to Linda deciding to come out of her shell a little. To stop thinking of her powers as a disability and instead as a phenomenal opportunity to help people. (And so on and so on until she becomes the woman she was born to be, which is where the first season finally ends up -- hopefully.)

Anyway, that's the only way I can see his character working.

Shadar

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18 Mar 2015 07:09 #41022 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Vartox cast?

lfan wrote: My particular issue with Vartox, as he traditionally is portrayed could go,one of two ways:

A). He plays it straight which as mentioned before, will offend the hell out of the female audience. After making deliberate strides to not objectify Suoergirl as a sex object, this would seem a 180 in the opposite direction although I think this would be the more usable premise

B). They play him less than serious which IMO would portray him as a buffoon and not to be taking seriously. In doing this, I think they start to tread into the cheesy area which I think would be a bad play on their part.

In terms of the intergalactic suitor, Maxima I see as a semi-equivalent character in SUPERMAN'S Universe, but she has always been a better character and one to be taken seriously although she always fails in getting what she wants. I just can't get excited about the concept of an intergalactic "caller".for Supergirl unless they play it semi straight.

In terms of other villains, I would have liked to see others before Vartox......psi, lobo, livewire, intergang, etc.

ElF


I can see using A, and then she simply puts him in his place. I'm not sure it'll offend the hell out of the audience, I'm sure most women have encountered a man who thinks he's a gift that no woman can refuse. And probably dreamed of punching him off the planet.

It's not just how Vartox acts, it's how Supergirl responds to him.

But I think there is a middle ground, where he's at a bit humorous, but not over the top silly.

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18 Mar 2015 08:30 #41023 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Vartox cast?
The more I think about it, the more I see them using Vartox to remind Kara who she really is. He'll do that by relating to her as a Kryptonian and not a human. Likely he'll see her Linda disguise and demeaning, even silly, given who she truly is.

That will be a first for her -- nobody has treated her as a Kryptonian since she left Krypton, and she'll have trouble with it and with him. But he won't be a villain. He will start to open her eyes. I can't think of any other plausible reason for them to have him appear in one of the earlier episodes.

In my thinking, the early shows are likely to focus on her deciding to become the woman she was born to be, and escape the suffocating mess that her life has become as Linda.

Anyway, always fun to speculate.

Shadar

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18 Mar 2015 08:56 - 18 Mar 2015 08:58 #41024 by castor
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lfan wrote: M

In terms of other villains, I would have liked to see others before Vartox......psi, lobo, livewire, intergang, etc.

ElF


I would agree with you that these would all be good villans.

However Lobo For instance is about as serious as Vartox in most iterations. Hes an intergalactic Bounty hunter that likes to frag people. And Dolphins. But mostly fragging people

But done completly straight-t then he turns into a mass murdering pyschopath who genociadally murdered his own people-not particuarly fun. Its about getting the right tone.


The more I think about it, the more I see them using Vartox to remind Kara who she really is. He'll do that by relating to her as a Kryptonian and not a human. Likely he'll see her Linda disguise and demeaning, even silly, given who she truly is.

In my thinking, the early shows are likely to focus on her deciding to become the woman she was born to be, and escape the suffocating mess that her life has become as Linda.


Thats a good way of looking at it, though the answer maybe less escape then fix it. Vartox maybe not very human, but he can teach her about not accepting things, and never giving up which are lessons that apply to interns.

The message of the Aurora Universe tends to be: I have god like powers,if i can do so morally i should enjoy it.

The message of the DC Universe tends to be: I have godlike powers...but humans. It may not be perfect, but it has its appeal

It maybe fun to get An Aurora show-probabbly not going to get it though:)
Last edit: 18 Mar 2015 08:58 by castor.

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18 Mar 2015 13:52 - 18 Mar 2015 13:53 #41026 by lfan
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castor wrote:
I would agree with you that these would all be good villans.

However Lobo For instance is about as serious as Vartox in most iterations. Hes an intergalactic Bounty hunter that likes to frag people. And Dolphins. But mostly fragging people

But done completly straight-t then he turns into a mass murdering pyschopath who genociadally murdered his own people-not particuarly fun. Its about getting the right tone.


I disagree in the fact that I don't think the "tone" of the villain defines the "tone" of the show. I would love to see Lobo as ruthless on the screen, and I think they should portray him like that (and not the metrosexual-looking New 52 Lobo). Villains should, for the most part, be villainous IMO.

A perfect example I think is the Flash series and how they portray Captain Cold and most recently Weather Wizard. With two of the stupidest names in anyone's Rogue's Gallery, they traditionally have been kinda hokey villains in the comics for the most part. However, the translation to them in the TV show is rather badass. Wentworth Miller is pretty hardcore and ruthless as Capt Cold and plays it incredibly straight (and similar for Weather Wizard). However, the seriousness of his character doesn't detract from the "lighter" and "fun" tone of the show (as compared to Arrow, for example). Most of the villains are like that (that I've seen). The only silliness with the villains tends to be the tongue-in-cheek fabrication of their codenames by Sisco.

I would hope they set the tone of the Supergirl show, and its villains, in a similar context.

ElF
Last edit: 18 Mar 2015 13:53 by lfan.

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18 Mar 2015 17:09 #41028 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Vartox cast?

lfan wrote:

castor wrote:
I would agree with you that these would all be good villans.

However Lobo For instance is about as serious as Vartox in most iterations. Hes an intergalactic Bounty hunter that likes to frag people. And Dolphins. But mostly fragging people

But done completly straight-t then he turns into a mass murdering pyschopath who genociadally murdered his own people-not particuarly fun. Its about getting the right tone.


I disagree in the fact that I don't think the "tone" of the villain defines the "tone" of the show. I would love to see Lobo as ruthless on the screen, and I think they should portray him like that (and not the metrosexual-looking New 52 Lobo). Villains should, for the most part, be villainous IMO.

A perfect example I think is the Flash series and how they portray Captain Cold and most recently Weather Wizard. With two of the stupidest names in anyone's Rogue's Gallery, they traditionally have been kinda hokey villains in the comics for the most part. However, the translation to them in the TV show is rather badass. Wentworth Miller is pretty hardcore and ruthless as Capt Cold and plays it incredibly straight (and similar for Weather Wizard). However, the seriousness of his character doesn't detract from the "lighter" and "fun" tone of the show (as compared to Arrow, for example). Most of the villains are like that (that I've seen). The only silliness with the villains tends to be the tongue-in-cheek fabrication of their codenames by Sisco.

I would hope they set the tone of the Supergirl show, and its villains, in a similar context.

ElF


The norm in TV shows (and most movies) seems to be to exaggerate villains, at least in regards to their comic book appearances. Potentially world-ending crisis are considered more dramatic to viewers than catching bank robbers or, even more challenging, vigilantes or 'freedom fighters". Nuanced bad guys require better writing and acting to portray.

Yet it's required to show the heroes as conflicted and confused and struggling as we are asked to identify only with them.

One successful violation of that norm was My Super Ex-Girlfriend, where Barry turned out to be a likable guy in the end. I kind of liked him. He was never bent on acts of terror or whatever. He just had a problem with a girl. That worked, but usually they just make the bad guy a real hard-ass with mass murder potential. Think General Zod in Superman. I guess that makes the show easier to write and act.

My point is that I won't be surprised if Supergirl goes that way and amps up the bad guys. But it would be totally cool to see a show where the good and bad guys are overlapped in terms of their badness or goodness. Where the morality of their actions, good guys and bad guys, along with their motivations, can be debated. Like the real world.

Agents of Shield went down that path a little way, which was interesting, but not nearly far enough. The idea that SHIELD isn't 100% good came across, but they didn't get far enough to show that Hydra isn't 100% evil. They do portray nuanced heroes, who make good and bad choices, including terrible mistakes, but Hydra always consists of pure-black villains who are even worse than we imagine.

Expect more of the same silliness. Prime time TV has little room for ambiguous morality, especially a superhero story. This isn't a criticism of Supergirl, but an observation on the norm for such shows.

(PS: I've certain been guilty of the same. Making my Arions in the AU as hard-core bad guys in a lot of stories. But I occasionally try to show some Arions as compassionate and caring toward humans, as in the Gloria story on SWM. Some Arions anyway. That's harder to write, but more satisfying, but I still cheat and resort to portraying some of my villains as having no redeemable qualities. Like the Captain in the same story. I view that as a weakness of my writing. The worst villain should still have some potential for good, even if its buried inside.)

Shadar

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18 Mar 2015 20:11 #41033 by jdrock24
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Personally, I think Vartox could be great. I remember laughing out loud when reading his encounter with Powergirl a few years ago. However, I could totally see people, especially women, getting offended if they play him "over-the-top" like they did in PG.

But who knows, I'm not a woman and, despite being married to one for a number of years now, I don't know how they think. Maybe they would find it funny when Kara rejects him and kicks his a$$.

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18 Mar 2015 21:05 #41035 by castor
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jdrock24 wrote: Personally, I think Vartox could be great. I remember laughing out loud when reading his encounter with Powergirl a few years ago. However, I could totally see people, especially women, getting offended if they play him "over-the-top" like they did in PG.

But who knows, I'm not a woman and, despite being married to one for a number of years now, I don't know how they think. Maybe they would find it funny when Kara rejects him and kicks his a$$.


It should be noted that Modern Vartox in the power Girl Days was written by Amanda Palmer, who is in fact a woman.

From my research on the subject for my movie project-Yeah Women to a point respond pretty well to most modern depictions of stuff like if done thoughtfully.

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18 Mar 2015 21:30 #41036 by lfan
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Fair enuff, but equally it should be noted Amanda Connor probably doesn't have the same sensibilities as most of the female population (I love her stuff, BTW)! Also, I think the way she treated Vartox was perfect for the tone of that book which was kinda silly and self-deprecating. While it worked for that comic (as well as currently for Harley Quinn), I just don't personally think it translates well to live-action TV.

Just my $.02
ElF


castor wrote:

jdrock24 wrote: Personally, I think Vartox could be great. I remember laughing out loud when reading his encounter with Powergirl a few years ago. However, I could totally see people, especially women, getting offended if they play him "over-the-top" like they did in PG.

But who knows, I'm not a woman and, despite being married to one for a number of years now, I don't know how they think. Maybe they would find it funny when Kara rejects him and kicks his a$$.


It should be noted that Modern Vartox in the power Girl Days was written by Amanda Palmer, who is in fact a woman.

From my research on the subject for my movie project-Yeah Women to a point respond pretty well to most modern depictions of stuff like if done thoughtfully.

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19 Mar 2015 04:14 #41040 by lfan
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Being confirmed now on news sites that Owain Yeoman will indeed play Vartox in the series.

ElF

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