Flash/ Supergirl

22 Mar 2017 10:35 #53268 by Markiehoe
Markiehoe created the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
After a completely "MEH" episode of Supergirl where the talent of Teri Hatcher and Kevin Sorbo was wasted we get this.

The Flash/ Supergirl crossover event "Duet" was a ton of FUN! The highlight was the musical number "Superfriends"
We need more lighthearted TV like this.
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23 Mar 2017 00:12 #53274 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I have to agree. Clever and cute, this was a blast to watch.

To be totally honest, Supergirl this week really was complete shite. I'm pretty sure she was on screen for a total of 10 mins or something. In her OWN show. At least that's what it felt like.

This though was pretty cool.

I, personally, wouldn't put it above "Once More With Feeling" from Buffy, but it was close :P

Like I mentioned, clever and cute is the best way I can describe it. Even the use of Victor Garber and John Barrowman was well done (representing the other two titles in the Berlanti-verse). And even with all the whimsy and lightness to the episode, it still managed to further Flash's main narrative without feeling forced (unlike the Supergirl half).

Benoist was excellent in this imo, playing off of Gustin brilliantly (so many great touches in their exchanges). If only Supergirl could be transferred to Team Flash lol (maybe bring Martian Manhunter too, and ditch the rest).

Anywho, great episode imo. And I didn't even care that Kara was depowered, because it actually a) made sense; and b) didn't matter. Imo, she was still, for all intents and purposes, Supergirl.

Ah the power of good writing. If only Team Supergirl could learn it.

Peace.

/K
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23 Mar 2017 02:16 #53279 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
So.... the writers on Flash write Supergirl better than her own writers? I guess that wouldn't be hard. A shame the show was saddled with such awful thinking.
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23 Mar 2017 05:22 #53280 by theomach
theomach replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I agree with kikass2014, and shadar this weeks episode of Supergirl was the worst of season 2. All the hype about Teri Hatcher being "super" was just that, hype. The episode was more about Winn than Kara. When are the writers going to get their act together.
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23 Mar 2017 12:38 #53283 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

theomach wrote: I agree with kikass2014, and shadar this weeks episode of Supergirl was the worst of season 2. All the hype about Teri Hatcher being "super" was just that, hype. The episode was more about Winn than Kara. When are the writers going to get their act P.

. Part of the reason Kara apeared so little in this weeks episo
De is because Benoist was filming Flash 2x17. As for Teri Hatcher, she's going to appear in most of the last six episodes of this season. Giving plenty of chances to fight Kara.

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23 Mar 2017 14:03 - 23 Mar 2017 14:04 #53284 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

...because Benoist was filming Flash 2x17


To an extent, I can give them that. But it still doesn't make up for the piss poor writing on Supergirl.

As for Teri Hatcher, she's going to appear in most of the last six episodes of this season. Giving plenty of chances to fight Kara.


While this could potentially be true, I for one am not holding my breath given the current track record of Team Supergirl.

Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2017 14:04 by kikass2014.
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23 Mar 2017 14:08 #53285 by Helstar
Helstar replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
To see Teri and Melissa fight ... that is something I would like, along with the line "hands off from my son, you kryptonian b**** !" (ok maybe the last word not exactly like that :D !)

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23 Mar 2017 17:25 #53288 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

theomach wrote: I agree with kikass2014, and shadar this weeks episode of Supergirl was the worst of season 2. All the hype about Teri Hatcher being "super" was just that, hype. The episode was more about Winn than Kara. When are the writers going to get their act together.


Ahhh... never?

The shame is that there are many, many good writers out there. But why would any of them touch a wreck of a show like Supergirl? The longer it goes on, the more toxic it will be to be associated with it as a writer.

Do it well and everyone wants in. Do it badly, and they all run away.

My big fear is that the character herself will become toxic and nobody will want to redo her in another series.

Never saw that coming when SG came to the screen. Hope I'm totally wrong. But it feels this way.

I still hold high hopes for WW. Not my favorite character, but if she's done right, I'll become a fan. Movie trailer is encouraging. Good news is that we'll know soon. Hope they come out with an Extended version with even more WW action, optimist that I am.
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23 Mar 2017 18:25 #53290 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
An idea off the top of my head to save Supergirl would be to "transfer" her to The Arrow-verse (technically, she is part of it, but occupies a separate Earth to the other 3 shows).

Move her over to The Flash and reboot her there. This has the following positives:

1) Its conceivable since the multiverse is well established. Just have a series finale where she ends up stuck in "Earth-1".

2) A different universe conceivably allows you to redefine her power-level and power-set (something that has been inconsistent on her show since the beginning).

3) It also allows you to ditch, what have become, the 2nd-rate characters that fill up her show. You know, the "James" Olsen's of the world.

4) She has great chemistry with Gustin (having worked on Glee together before becoming superheroes), and imo, could easily fit in with the rest of the cast on The Flash (even if temporary).

5) Once she has established herself there, then reboot her into her own series, still set in that universe.

Of course, none of this will happen, and these are literally the first thoughts on how to do it that came to my head, but it is possible.

What will happen is, like Shadar stated, the show will just plod along as a toxic sludge, always being the bastard step-child of the Berlanti-verse. I mean, come on, its saying something when a show like Legends of Tommorrow is, imo, both more entertaining and has more thought put into it then Supergirl appears to have.

Ah well, c'est la vie.

Peace.

/K
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23 Mar 2017 23:45 #53293 by fats
fats replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
With all the negativity on the SG threads, I'm starting to think that the best course of action would be to ban all discussions on SG from this site because it seems that no one has anything good to say about the series.

Maybe people's expectations are too high for a mainstream series, maybe people have waited too long for one and are now so sad that what they wanted from the series is not what been delivered, I say this because I'm getting fucking fed up of the shit that has been said about it that I'm dreading looking at this and other SG threads.

Is the series perfect - NO
Is the series what most of us want - NO

But it's a series that we have and one that we need to look at as either a starting block or as the ending, if it's the former then we need to show support for the idea and hopefully we will see a series that will fit more within our likes. If it's the later then watch it while it lasts as we will NEVER see another superpowered girl that is the lead in a TV show, not this year, not ever, and I would hate to think that the negativity from this sire and others causes the downfall of the series. You never know who's a member of this site one of the team member who writes for the show might just be a member and might take the negativity on board and waste what could our only opportunity for ubergirl series.

A pissed off Fats
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23 Mar 2017 23:57 - 23 Mar 2017 23:58 #53294 by Markiehoe
Markiehoe replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I support the Supergirl show by watching it every week.
I hang on to every scrap I get.
In the last episode Supergirl flew up to the Spaceship and was attacked.
When she was englobed she refused help and freed herself.
I almost jumped out of my chair and cheered.
And that was it.
One 30 second scene.
It is amazing how well Supergirl was received on Flash and not one "Super" scene was presented.

Supporting Supergirl hoping for scraps is not what i wish to do.

Supporting Bluestone who makes straight up Murder videos in the hopes that they will throw us scraps is not what I will ever do.

I am not a dog who lives for scraps.

Wonder Woman. Bionic Woman Xena, Buffy...all strong shows with Strong female leads.
Hollywood knows how to do it.
They just refuse to.

A pissed off Markiehoe
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2017 23:58 by Markiehoe.
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24 Mar 2017 00:44 #53295 by ace191
ace191 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
Like Marilyn Monroe, I would watch MB in a potatoe sack. I loved her dancing and singing and the costumes. My wife did too. I watch it live on 2tv's and record it as well. Doing all I can to help the show. I still look forward to seeing it every week. It is a rare treat I have waited forever for and I am going to enjoy it while I can.

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24 Mar 2017 05:19 #53297 by theomach
theomach replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
Never thought of it in that way. Fats brings up some great points. Maybe my expectations were too high.

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24 Mar 2017 06:28 #53298 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I still watch the show. As flawed as it is, its still better than most recent superwomanlike shows like Charmed, Dark Angel and Bionic Woman 2007. For me,its still a lot of fun to watch every week.
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24 Mar 2017 10:21 - 24 Mar 2017 10:22 #53299 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

With all the negativity on the SG threads, I'm starting to think that the best course of action would be to ban all discussions on SG from this site


Wait, what? Isn't that, erm, fascism? I kid of course, but feel free to do so. It is your forum.

...it seems that no one has anything good to say about the series.


During the first season (and tbh the first couple of episodes of the second) I had and said PLENTY of good things about the show. However it is undeniable that the show has plummeted since then, and by a country mile at that.

Maybe people's expectations are too high for a mainstream series, maybe people have waited too long for one and are now so sad that what they wanted from the series is not what been delivered...


No. My expectations were not incredibly high. In fact, during season 1, they were actually exceeded. However, EXPECTING a decent storyline, characters and dialogue (not excellent, or perfect) is the MINIMUM I would expect from ANY show.

To answer the other points you make, Markie sums up my position perfectly. Especially this "I am not a dog who lives for scraps."

You never know who's a member of this site one of the team member who writes for the show might just be a member and might take the negativity on board and waste what could our only opportunity for ubergirl series.


ORRRRRRRR they could see where they are going wrong and correct it. I really hope this "one of the team member who writes for the show might just be a member" is true so that, with all the criticisms of late here, they can see where they are going wrong and FIX IT.

Because the show needs fixing beyond just an ubergirl perspective.

A pissed off Kikass.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2017 10:22 by kikass2014.
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24 Mar 2017 10:56 #53300 by Markiehoe
Markiehoe replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I'll give one GOOD example how I believe this forum and others changed Supergirl for the better.
Do you remember how poorly General Lane was written in the Red Tornado episode?
After being roundly criticised for a poorly written character General Lane was much improved in his next appearance.
I believe this forum and others were responsible for that.

As I stated earlier Supergirl freed herself from the englobement trap BY HERSELF in the last episode.
I believe this forum had an influence in that also.

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24 Mar 2017 16:05 #53305 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
Serious discussion of this show is largely prohibited on other forums connected to the series, either because members attack any dissenting voice (no matter how polite) as a 'hater', or because moderators treat the participants like little school children. It would be a shame if this forum went the same way.

Personally? I dropped out of Supergirl at the start of the second season. Despite an excellent pilot, and laudable attempts to reclaim superheroes from the grim-n-gritty stylings that dominated the post-Burton era, the quality of the writing just wasn't good enough. Quite frankly, it was pitched at an intellectual level that I felt wouldn't sustain my interest given how many other great shows are now competing for my time.

A lot of the Berlanti superhero shows are written like daytime soap opera: there's a lot of superficiality, too much reliance on gimmicks and fan-servicing to keep the audience excited, and practically nothing devoted to credible characterisation. Sadly, I think Supergirl suffers more than other CW shows because I get the sense that the creative staff never really understood what makes the character distinct -- so Kara ended up being just a clone of her cousin. I have this unfortunate -- rather derogatory -- picture in my head that the typical Supergirl demographic is someone who does this (see GIF below) several times an episode... typically when one of the characters cracks a lame joke or mentions another DC character.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

However...

So what..?!?!

As I've said a few time before: the show isn't aimed at me. It isn't even aimed at Supergirl comicbook fans (clearly!) It's aimed at fans who aren't looking for any sophistication, fans who just want something with minimal depth and complexity, fans who value cheap thrills. And although the ratings have been slightly declining across the season, the show is not going anywhere fast. It will almost certainly acquire the 100 episodes I'm told are advantageous for syndication deals, largely because there's an audience for the stuff it does. Social media on Tuesdays is filled with animating GIFs from all the squeal-worthy fan-service moments, and viewers fangirl'ing over every twee line of dialogue as if it had the profundity of Shakespeare. So... y'know... whatever it is they're doing, they're obviously finding an audience, somewhere.

That audience just doesn't include me, sadly.

But ... (again) ... So what?

The people who get the most out of Supergirl are people who had no relationship with the character prior to the show. The most critical fans (anecdotally, it seems) are those who were big fans of the character. It's written for a young demographic who are totally ignorant of the history of Kara Zor-El. This forum is dominated by an older demographic (many of us have kids) who have an encyclopedic knowledge of Kara Zor-El. No wonder we get the commentary we do.

So... in summary...

(1) This isn't our show (!)
(2) Despite that, there's still a lot worth commenting on.
(3) This forum is one of the few places were proper criticism of the show is tolerated.
(4) I suggest we carry on as before, but recognise that we're an unusual audience who will have an unusual view of the show, not necessarily in line with the predominant demographic the show attracts.

I'm tempted to stick a warning at the head of this forum:
Note to the casual reader: many active members of this forum are older than the typical tv show demographic, and have grown up with the character of Kara Zor-El (some of them since Action Comics #252.) Their views on the Supergirl show will reflect that bias.


R5

Supergirl Pre-Crisis Chronology: www.superwomenmania.com/supergirltl/
Supergirl: the Life and Times of Kara Zor-El: maidofmight.wordpress.com/
DeviantArt: 5red.deviantart.com/
Blog: x5red.tumblr.com/

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24 Mar 2017 17:23 - 24 Mar 2017 17:26 #53308 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

A lot of the Berlanti superhero shows are written like daytime soap opera: there's a lot of superficiality, too much reliance on gimmicks and fan-servicing to keep the audience excited, and practically nothing devoted to credible characterisation.


To a certain extent, this is true. However, I will disagree with the bolded part. And here is why.

There is a lot of credible characterisation in The Flash and Legends of Tommorrow. Each of those characters is clearly defined, has a history that is both background and part of the journey the audience has thus far travelled with them on, and they evolve.

Now I don’t think I, or anyone here, is saying that these characters are super 3-dimensional constructs of Shakespearian quality. No one in my mind is saying that or even demanding that (I know I’m not). But to say that ALL of the shows have the same quality of characterisation is a misnomer. Supergirl clearly suffers a LOT worse in this aspect of the show then the others.

You even make mention of it here:

Sadly, I think Supergirl suffers more than other CW shows because I get the sense that the creative staff never really understood what makes the character distinct -- so Kara ended up being just a clone of her cousin.


The highlighted part is very apt. I agree with you on this.

The first season, as I have mentioned, was actually rather good, all things considered. It’s the second season, specifically the second half, that has seriously dropped the ball. And characterisation is probably the least of its problems.

It isn't even aimed at Supergirl comicbook fans (clearly!) It's aimed at fans who aren't looking for any sophistication, fans who just want something with minimal depth and complexity, fans who value cheap thrills.


And yet it really doesn’t deliver on ANY of those either imo. Now you mention that there are lots of fans who enjoy this. And I agree. Perhaps this says more about our society then the show though.

Should we just endure mediocrity? Or perhaps we should demand something better?

Who knows, some of us venting our frustration and outlining our criticism (note: not mindlessly ranting) of the show, could send out vibes into the hippy-ether and maybe we will see a change for the better. For example, Markiehoe makes a good point about the General Lane characterisation. And the scene in this weeks episode of Kara refusing any help. I would even go so far as to say, after my criticism of the Jo’nn/Meghan thing, she seemed to make a pretty prompt exit.

Synchronicity? Luck? Again, who knows.

All I can say is keep voicing those criticisms. And contrary to your forum warning, this isn’t bias criticism, but rather genuine.

Maybe one day we will get a Supergirl show worthy of the title.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2017 17:26 by kikass2014.

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24 Mar 2017 17:44 #53309 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
People here complaining about season 2 should keep in mind that both LOT season 1 and Arrow season were thought to be pretty bad, but have both improved since then. Who's to say season 3 of Supergirl won't be better than season ?

Speaking of season 3, Katie Mcgrath aka Lena Luthor is becoming a series regular in season 3. Is this a clue that Mon-El will be written out the show come season 3?

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24 Mar 2017 18:27 #53311 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl

People here complaining about season 2 should keep in mind that both LOT season 1 and Arrow season were thought to be pretty bad, but have both improved since then. Who's to say season 3 of Supergirl won't be better than season ?


That is very true.

Speaking of season 3, Katie Mcgrath aka Lena Luthor is becoming a series regular in season 3.


Now that is interesting. Curious to see how that plays out.

Thank you.

Peace.

/K

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24 Mar 2017 21:08 #53319 by ace191
ace191 replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
There are several things that I would like to comment on. First and formost, TV is a visual medium. MB is a very cute, talented actress who looks great in her red and blues. She is incredible at playing the sensitive, wholesome all-American girl next door which is really kind of funny since she is not even from this planet! The next thing is that TV is a business. Do you really think that the show's producers would spend all that money for the Queen's ship and the computer graphics with the outside shots for one episode? And did you see how evil and bitchy Teri Hatcher has been made to look? And she is super! What, no evil Superwoman fans left on this site? Do you really think that she is going to go away quietly into the night? I think she is going to cause Kara A HUGE amount of trouble. I just hope that they don't let the Queen blackmail Kara into giving herself up so that the Superfriends can save her once again.

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24 Mar 2017 21:25 #53320 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Flash/ Supergirl
I think R5 nailed it:

"Note to the casual reader: many active members of this forum are older than the typical tv show demographic, and have grown up with the character of Kara Zor-El (some of them since Action Comics #252.) Their views on the Supergirl show will reflect that bias."

I've seen all along that the show is pitched to a far younger audience than me. I had hoped that my long-time interest in SG would transcend that and let me enjoy the show. But to my great surprise, that hasn't been the case.

The intelligence thing (or the lack thereof) is perhaps the biggest problem with the writing.

That said... most shows are pitched at a demographic. If you are far, far outside that demographic, they don't work. So I guess this shouldn't be a surprise. We long suffering fans wanted a show that did our favorite character right. We didn't get it so we complain.

That shouldn't bother the people who like the show. Do your own thing. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
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