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Who's in episode 3x05..?

16 Aug 2017 11:27 - 16 Aug 2017 11:28 #55840 by five_red
five_red created the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Kevin Smith has posted his script cover for episode 5 of season 3, and already I can see it contains "Hank Henshaw / Martian Manhunter", "Lena Luther" , "Mon-El", plus a "Pilot", "Security [guard??]" and people called "Luke" or "Suke", "Ryan" and perhaps a "Jen" too... :)

Anyone who watches the show want to hazard a guess as to what the other character names are..? I'm guessing the first name in the second block will be the episode's baddie. Zip file attached for hi-res images.







R5

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16 Aug 2017 20:27 #55846 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

five_red wrote: Kevin Smith has posted his script cover for episode 5 of season 3, and already I can see it contains "Hank Henshaw / Martian Manhunter", "Lena Luther" , "Mon-El", plus a "Pilot", "Security [guard??]" and people called "Luke" or "Suke", "Ryan" and perhaps a "Jen" too... :)

Anyone who watches the show want to hazard a guess as to what the other character names are..? I'm guessing the first name in the second block will be the episode's baddie. Zip file attached for hi-res images.







R5


Crap... Mon El is still around. I disliked his character and am disappointed to find that he's still around halfway through Season 3. I guess he'll have to save Kara a few times because he's, you know, a man.

Shadar
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19 Aug 2017 10:17 #55886 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

Crap... Mon El is still around.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA my thoughts exactly Shadar when I read this. Was hoping we saw the last of him when he went into that hole in space.

But then I remembered he was at SDCC panel and they mentioned he would be back, and I got sad :(

Hoping he won't stay in the season long, if at all past Smith's episode.

Peace.

/K

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20 Aug 2017 10:21 #55899 by Woodclaw
Woodclaw replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

kikass2014 wrote:

Crap... Mon El is still around.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA my thoughts exactly Shadar when I read this. Was hoping we saw the last of him when he went into that hole in space.

But then I remembered he was at SDCC panel and they mentioned he would be back, and I got sad :(

Hoping he won't stay in the season long, if at all past Smith's episode.

Peace.

/K


Maybe it's just a flashback ...

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20 Aug 2017 17:53 #55905 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

Woodclaw wrote:

kikass2014 wrote:

Crap... Mon El is still around.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA my thoughts exactly Shadar when I read this. Was hoping we saw the last of him when he went into that hole in space.

But then I remembered he was at SDCC panel and they mentioned he would be back, and I got sad :(

Hoping he won't stay in the season long, if at all past Smith's episode.

Peace.

/K


Maybe it's just a flashback ...



I like your optimism, Woodclaw.

Or maybe he's now a villain and Kara has to kick his ass. But that would be a long-shot. Likely we'll see more attempts at making them a couple.

Even that could maybe be interesting if they went further down the Smallville earth-tremors kind of path, for those who remember that.

Shadar
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21 Aug 2017 04:02 #55917 by ace191
ace191 replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Come on guys! Half the folks that watch this show are female, and it airs on the good looking hunk network, the CW. If Mon El helps to attract the viewers who pay the bills, more power to him. And if my supermarket tabloids are correct, MB is dating him. Hopefully, he is keeping her warm and happy in Vancover.

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23 Aug 2017 09:20 #55935 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
I get what you are saying Ace, but it's not the fact that he is a male, or good looking that is the problem.

Its the fact that he is a terrible character and the "romance" is poorly written and executed thus far.

If they can fix those two problems, then "Yay Mon-El".

At least, that is my perspective of it.

Peace.

/K

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23 Aug 2017 17:32 #55941 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

kikass2014 wrote: I get what you are saying Ace, but it's not the fact that he is a male, or good looking that is the problem.

Its the fact that he is a terrible character and the "romance" is poorly written and executed thus far.

If they can fix those two problems, then "Yay Mon-El".

At least, that is my perspective of it.

Peace.

/K


Good points, K. A really good romance between two superhumans would be interesting to show, especially as it compares to ordinary romances and from the viewpoint of Kara's friends and erstwhile romantic partners.

A lot could be done with that, but I don't think CW and its writers want to focus on going that deep. Or they feel they don't have the actors for it. So far, they are far short of the standard set by the frustratingly painful Smallville approach to human/superhuman romances.

Besides, Melissa and whoever plays Mon El don't seem to have any chemistry in my eyes, and without on-screen chemistry between actors, any romance is doomed to fail in the eyes of the viewers.

I've always thought it would be better to dump Mon El and take Kara in a different direction with someone where there is chemistry. Like maybe bring her husband back on the show (who played Cat's son) and have them light things up. The two of them obviously have chemistry, and it showed in Season 1 when Cat tried to get the two of them together.

Not sure why that subplot fizzled out, but there are many things about this show that I don't understand.

Shadar

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23 Aug 2017 18:58 #55942 by ace191
ace191 replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
I think the move to Canada was an issue and may have continued to MB's divorce. It took one of our favorite characters Cat Grant out of the show.

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23 Aug 2017 21:57 - 23 Aug 2017 22:03 #55943 by Monty
Monty replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Melissa is divorced from her former husband (whoever he was on the show). Cat Grant's eldest son?
Last Edit: 23 Aug 2017 22:03 by Monty.

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24 Aug 2017 03:59 #55948 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

Monty wrote: Melissa is divorced from her former husband (whoever he was on the show). Cat Grant's eldest son?


Didn't know... oh well, so much for that chemistry.

That was also quick. Didn't she get married just before Season 1?

On the show, he played Cat's son. Not sure about eldest or whatever.

Still miss Cat on the show. Shame CW was so focused on Canada that they lost her as a regular. But it's not as if Calista has to work for money. Between her work and Harrison's, I think the family bank account is full.

Shadar

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26 Aug 2017 04:15 - 26 Aug 2017 04:15 #55963 by murdough
murdough replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Unfortunately, word is that Mon-El will continue to be a presence in the show this season. Evidently, the "mystery" surrounding his disappearance ie his pod going into the wormhole will be part of the main arc in the first half of the season. Hopefully it'll end with him having to go to the 31st century permanently, as the Legion of Superheroes are rumored to appear this season. Guess we'll see.
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26 Aug 2017 06:57 - 26 Aug 2017 07:00 #55964 by theomach
theomach replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Melissa's ex Blake Jenner appeared in the season 1 episode entitled "Bizarro."
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29 Aug 2017 17:29 #56016 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
A SPOILER for the next season that was on IO9 this morning: This sounds like it could be an interesting story line, and most importantly, one I don't recall seeing explored in the Superman Universe before:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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29 Aug 2017 23:09 #56035 by theomach
theomach replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
Forgive me for being so blunt. Her physiology is that of a Kryptonian. She has spent so many years on Earth she may consider herself human. It's an interesting question, and one she must figure out on her own.

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30 Aug 2017 00:31 - 30 Aug 2017 00:43 #56036 by murdough
murdough replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
It's come up a few times over the years in the Superman mythos in terms of who the hero really is. For most of the character's existence, it was simple in that Kal-El/Superman was his true persona with Clark Kent merely being a disguise. With the 1986 Man of Steel reboot written by John Byrne, that concept got turned around in that he'd considered himself Clark Kent all his life, not having adopted the Superman persona until he was in his 20s. It wasn't until 10 years or so into his career as Superman when he discovered his Kryptonian heritage(as well as his birth name), though he viewed it as immaterial in light of how he viewed himself. It didn't hurt that his human foster parents(whom he'd believed were his biological parents til he was 18) were still alive and part of his life.

That changed a little during subsequent retellings of his origin, though not by much. a comics writer(whose name escapes me) laid out how he has two artificial personas, as well as his true self. There's the Clark Kent who works at the Daily Planet, a seemingly shy and unassuming man whose true steel(so to speak) comes out in his work as one of the best investigative reporters in the business. Then there's Superman, the bold, stalwart paragon of heroism. Lastly, there's his true self, who is only seen by his family and closest friends, a former farmboy named Clark who just so happens to have the powers of a demigod, but in his heart is still a regular(albeit extremely moral) guy. I've always liked that interpretation.

Back in the 90s, there was an episode of the animated series where he had to temporarily fake his own death as Clark due to threats from a mob boss. Eventually, he caught the guy as Superman, but it did touch upon his psychology. At one point, he and the elder Kents discussed the possibility of making the death of Clark Kent permanent. He shot that down immediately, saying, "But I *am* Clark. I *need* to be Clark. I'd go crazy if I had to be Superman all the time." Another time, on an episode of Lois & Clark, Clark said simply, "Superman is something I can *do*. Clark is who I *am*"

And of course there were the 10 seasons of Smallville, which deliberately took it's time before he formally became Superman. There was a point, during the period between seasons 8 and 9 where he had abandoned his Clark Kent identity, operating as a superpowered vigilante full time. That lasted until the end of season 9's first episode, when he returned to living life as Clark.

Now, there is a huge difference between Clark and Kara. He was essentially raised human from when he was(at most) a year or two old. Kara on the other hand didn't arrive on Earth until she was in early adolescence, so her identifying herself as human is more tenuous. It'll be interesting to see how the show's writers handle it. Word is that this fall's crossover between Supergirl, Arrow, the Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow will be more personal compared to that of previous seasons. Maybe Kara's arc will factor into it. If anything, they have delved into that sort of territory in the CWverse, notably in the early seasons of Arrow, where Oliver Queen struggled to determine who he really was, either the former billionaire playboy he'd been, the ruthless vigilante/self-perceived monster his time away had created within him, the psychologically damaged man his experiences had turned him into, or something else entirely. At the end of the third season, he'd finally resolved his identity crisis, finding a measure of balance. A balance that Kara needs to find from the sound of it. Again, I guess we'll see.
Last Edit: 30 Aug 2017 00:43 by murdough.
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30 Aug 2017 02:33 - 30 Aug 2017 02:34 #56041 by theomach
theomach replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?
For a great comment on all this I recommend watching the last part of Kill Bill vol. II. I think Daviid Carradine gives a great insight into what Kara may be going through in a roundabout way.
Last Edit: 30 Aug 2017 02:34 by theomach.

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02 Sep 2017 21:08 #56095 by Woodclaw
Woodclaw replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

murdough wrote: It's come up a few times over the years in the Superman mythos in terms of who the hero really is. For most of the character's existence, it was simple in that Kal-El/Superman was his true persona with Clark Kent merely being a disguise. With the 1986 Man of Steel reboot written by John Byrne, that concept got turned around in that he'd considered himself Clark Kent all his life, not having adopted the Superman persona until he was in his 20s. It wasn't until 10 years or so into his career as Superman when he discovered his Kryptonian heritage(as well as his birth name), though he viewed it as immaterial in light of how he viewed himself. It didn't hurt that his human foster parents(whom he'd believed were his biological parents til he was 18) were still alive and part of his life.

That changed a little during subsequent retellings of his origin, though not by much. a comics writer(whose name escapes me) laid out how he has two artificial personas, as well as his true self. There's the Clark Kent who works at the Daily Planet, a seemingly shy and unassuming man whose true steel(so to speak) comes out in his work as one of the best investigative reporters in the business. Then there's Superman, the bold, stalwart paragon of heroism. Lastly, there's his true self, who is only seen by his family and closest friends, a former farmboy named Clark who just so happens to have the powers of a demigod, but in his heart is still a regular(albeit extremely moral) guy. I've always liked that interpretation.

Back in the 90s, there was an episode of the animated series where he had to temporarily fake his own death as Clark due to threats from a mob boss. Eventually, he caught the guy as Superman, but it did touch upon his psychology. At one point, he and the elder Kents discussed the possibility of making the death of Clark Kent permanent. He shot that down immediately, saying, "But I *am* Clark. I *need* to be Clark. I'd go crazy if I had to be Superman all the time." Another time, on an episode of Lois & Clark, Clark said simply, "Superman is something I can *do*. Clark is who I *am*"

And of course there were the 10 seasons of Smallville, which deliberately took it's time before he formally became Superman. There was a point, during the period between seasons 8 and 9 where he had abandoned his Clark Kent identity, operating as a superpowered vigilante full time. That lasted until the end of season 9's first episode, when he returned to living life as Clark.

Now, there is a huge difference between Clark and Kara. He was essentially raised human from when he was(at most) a year or two old. Kara on the other hand didn't arrive on Earth until she was in early adolescence, so her identifying herself as human is more tenuous. It'll be interesting to see how the show's writers handle it. Word is that this fall's crossover between Supergirl, Arrow, the Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow will be more personal compared to that of previous seasons. Maybe Kara's arc will factor into it. If anything, they have delved into that sort of territory in the CWverse, notably in the early seasons of Arrow, where Oliver Queen struggled to determine who he really was, either the former billionaire playboy he'd been, the ruthless vigilante/self-perceived monster his time away had created within him, the psychologically damaged man his experiences had turned him into, or something else entirely. At the end of the third season, he'd finally resolved his identity crisis, finding a measure of balance. A balance that Kara needs to find from the sound of it. Again, I guess we'll see.


This pretty much sums up my usual thinking about Kal and Kara: in spite of their common genetic heritage, he's culturally and morally human, whereas she grew up in an alien society. In my personal canon Kara is the last Kryptonian, whereas Kal is much more the son of two worlds.

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"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
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03 Sep 2017 18:50 #56097 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Who's in episode 3x05..?

Woodclaw wrote:

murdough wrote: It's come up a few times over the years in the Superman mythos in terms of who the hero really is. For most of the character's existence, it was simple in that Kal-El/Superman was his true persona with Clark Kent merely being a disguise. With the 1986 Man of Steel reboot written by John Byrne, that concept got turned around in that he'd considered himself Clark Kent all his life, not having adopted the Superman persona until he was in his 20s. It wasn't until 10 years or so into his career as Superman when he discovered his Kryptonian heritage(as well as his birth name), though he viewed it as immaterial in light of how he viewed himself. It didn't hurt that his human foster parents(whom he'd believed were his biological parents til he was 18) were still alive and part of his life.

That changed a little during subsequent retellings of his origin, though not by much. a comics writer(whose name escapes me) laid out how he has two artificial personas, as well as his true self. There's the Clark Kent who works at the Daily Planet, a seemingly shy and unassuming man whose true steel(so to speak) comes out in his work as one of the best investigative reporters in the business. Then there's Superman, the bold, stalwart paragon of heroism. Lastly, there's his true self, who is only seen by his family and closest friends, a former farmboy named Clark who just so happens to have the powers of a demigod, but in his heart is still a regular(albeit extremely moral) guy. I've always liked that interpretation.

Back in the 90s, there was an episode of the animated series where he had to temporarily fake his own death as Clark due to threats from a mob boss. Eventually, he caught the guy as Superman, but it did touch upon his psychology. At one point, he and the elder Kents discussed the possibility of making the death of Clark Kent permanent. He shot that down immediately, saying, "But I *am* Clark. I *need* to be Clark. I'd go crazy if I had to be Superman all the time." Another time, on an episode of Lois & Clark, Clark said simply, "Superman is something I can *do*. Clark is who I *am*"

And of course there were the 10 seasons of Smallville, which deliberately took it's time before he formally became Superman. There was a point, during the period between seasons 8 and 9 where he had abandoned his Clark Kent identity, operating as a superpowered vigilante full time. That lasted until the end of season 9's first episode, when he returned to living life as Clark.

Now, there is a huge difference between Clark and Kara. He was essentially raised human from when he was(at most) a year or two old. Kara on the other hand didn't arrive on Earth until she was in early adolescence, so her identifying herself as human is more tenuous. It'll be interesting to see how the show's writers handle it. Word is that this fall's crossover between Supergirl, Arrow, the Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow will be more personal compared to that of previous seasons. Maybe Kara's arc will factor into it. If anything, they have delved into that sort of territory in the CWverse, notably in the early seasons of Arrow, where Oliver Queen struggled to determine who he really was, either the former billionaire playboy he'd been, the ruthless vigilante/self-perceived monster his time away had created within him, the psychologically damaged man his experiences had turned him into, or something else entirely. At the end of the third season, he'd finally resolved his identity crisis, finding a measure of balance. A balance that Kara needs to find from the sound of it. Again, I guess we'll see.


This pretty much sums up my usual thinking about Kal and Kara: in spite of their common genetic heritage, he's culturally and morally human, whereas she grew up in an alien society. In my personal canon Kara is the last Kryptonian, whereas Kal is much more the son of two worlds.



Nearly every basic trait in one's personality is well established by their mid-teens. Actually, long before that. The core of their self-image, their ethics, their compassion (or its lack), their way of dealing with problems, etc. etc. etc. These things don't fundamentally change, although our way of dealing with issues can change through experience and deliberate effort.

But the foundation is unshakable and well established by then.

Kara grew up in a radically different culture on a different world. There is nothing intrinsically human about her physiology or her personality or inner self. Sure, she's learned to pretend to be human, but when it comes to gut instincts, hers will always be Kryptonian. Any story about her has to capture that reality and the challenges it presents. An advanced alien raised in a dominating culture where both science and militarism were strong forces. When shit hits the fan, she clenches her fists and fights.

And Kal's inner self will always be human. Mid-western US more specifically, which is an unsophisticated subset of all other human experiences. He's a human inside and a Kryptonian on the outside. That has always made him interesting in a completely different way than Kara. A human with the powers of a god. When shit hits the fan, he looks to find a human way out of the mess that doesn't involve force.

Wonder Woman and Kara, both from very different cultures, share the trait of not having been raised in a human culture. I've always thought they could learn a lot from each other, but their relationship in the comics hasn't been nearly as strong as Superman and WW.

That's an opportunity lost. One that we could correct with some stories if we wanted to.
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