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CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

09 Dec 2017 21:41 #57599 by kikass2014
kikass2014 created the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

“Supergirl” will return in its regular Monday 8pm timeslot on January 15th and run for four weeks until February 5th. Then “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” takes over the timeslot from February 12th and will air all of its nine remaining episodes for the season through April 9th. Then, “Supergirl” will return April 16th and air its remaining nine episodes through to June 11th.


Seems like we will be getting another "mid-season break" on Supergirl.

Not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing tbh. Certainly bad in that, after a 5 week break, I need to endure another NINE WEEK break before Supergirl finishes up. :angry:

Luckily I enjoy both these shows, but still, this does irk me somewhat.

SORT IT OUT CW!

Peace.

/K

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09 Dec 2017 22:26 #57601 by ace191
ace191 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Do you think they are using the same production staff and facilities?

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09 Dec 2017 23:33 #57602 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Its to do with giving their new show - Black Lightning, as well as a couple of others, a good start I think.

Peace.

/K

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10 Dec 2017 02:33 - 10 Dec 2017 02:34 #57610 by Helstar
Helstar replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Black Lightning looks really awful from the trailers. Hopefully her daughters will fix my thought in the actual serie :P

Which are the 'other' series ? Teen Titans ?
Last Edit: 10 Dec 2017 02:34 by Helstar.

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10 Dec 2017 07:52 #57615 by willow
willow replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
I am not aware of each shows' ratings, but it could be a way to pump up Legends ratings. Maybe Supergirl is doing well, but Legends is lagging behind. So the network is trying to make use of the existing fanbase to prop up Legends. Alternatively, it could be that the story lines heavily converge so adjusting the time slot makes sense to make some Supergirl/Legends cross-over work.

Or as stated earlier, they just need a time slot to put the new shows on so they can find an audience.

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10 Dec 2017 16:08 #57621 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

willow wrote: I am not aware of each shows' ratings, but it could be a way to pump up Legends ratings. Maybe Supergirl is doing well, but Legends is lagging behind. So the network is trying to make use of the existing fanbase to prop up Legends. Alternatively, it could be that the story lines heavily converge so adjusting the time slot makes sense to make some Supergirl/Legends cross-over work.

Or as stated earlier, they just need a time slot to put the new shows on so they can find an audience.


Supergirl, Arrow and Legends are all doing pretty much the same in the ratings. When the third season began Supergirl had a couple of weeks as the lowest rated of the four DC cape shows, which was quite a drop from last season. Indeed Supergirl's season opener roughly matched the show's lowest ratings record thus far. Arrow and Legends subsequently both dipped slightly, however, so now Supergirl typically comes second or third in a pretty tight group. Flash has also dripped slightly over the course of its fourth season, but has maintained its dominant position, typically attracting two and a half times as many viewers as any of the other 'rival' cape shows.

(I can post updated charts, if you want.)

On a positive note, while Supergirl's raw viewers bobs up and down a little from episode to episode. the show's key demo ratings (the audience CW targets) haven't changed at all since S03 E01 (excluding the Crisis episode, which added roughly 80% to the key demo audience.) It's low, but at least it isn't dropping.

Obviously over recent years The CW has packed its weekday prime-time with classic superhero shows, and there will come a point when it will need to make changes to avoid things getting stale. One factor that (unfortunately!) has to be considered is the firing of Andrew Kreisberg, who was (as far as I can tell) Belanti's go-to comicbook nerd/expert. Given all that, I'd be surprised if The CW will abandon its lucrative access to DC Comics properties, but it might want to maybe shift away from the traditional square-jaw 'cape' heroes to explore other types of fantasy drama. I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if all of the four existing cape shows got renewed for next season; the question is which show(s) will meet the axe?

We can rule out the Flash, given its rating dominance. Arrow has maybe run its course, already clocking up the magic 100+ episodes that syndication favours -- it must be a strong contender for cancellation. Legends has never garnered stellar ratings, nor has it gained a strong online fandom -- will CW want to keep it alive simple to rack up the episode count for future sales? Supergirl has a strong online following and presumably does okay in merchandising and DVD sales(?), but is (!!allegedly!!) the most expensive of the three bottom-runners to make. Andrew Kreisberg was most hands-on with The Flash and Supergirl, so his absence doesn't help the Girl of Steel's renewal chances (seems unkind to mention that, but it's probably true, sadly!) Although -- on a more positive note -- the controversy may count in Supergirl's favour: would The CW really want to cancel a heavily female-orientated show in such a political climate..?

To be honest I can't see The CW cancelling all three low-ranked cape shows at once, but dropping two is a possibility. My guess would be Arrow and Legends -- but what worries me is just how expensive Supergirl is to make(?) When The CW took the show on from CBS, my guess is that they funded it on the expectation that it would perform closer to The Flash. Rumour has it that Supergirl's budget was cut again for its third season, which would make sense (if true) given its slow decline in ratings over the course of season two. The mixed news from season three is that the show has held very firm in the ratings, neither dropping nor climbing, but at a point that roughly matches its lowest performance from season two.

Regardless of whether you love or hate Supergirl, it is the only action/adventure/fantasy show on tv that has a real commitment to its female characters. In a reverse of the usual Hollywood formula, all of Supergirl's storylines are driven by women, and universally the key players are female (with all the men taking supporting roles.) That -- if no other reason -- demands that it deserves a chance.


R5

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10 Dec 2017 16:38 #57623 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Aren't they adding ANOTHER "cape" show to their roster though (Black Lightning)?

If budget concerns are a factor, I would cancel that pos before it starts. Judging by the trailer they released, it looks garbage tbh.

Pretty good analysis five_red. I'm guessing Arrow would probably be the most likely to come to an end. Six seasons is a lot, so probably will either end, or possibly season 7 will be the last one.

Having said that, it is the cheapest (from what I understand) to produce, so there is that.

Legends has developed (again, from what I experience reading the various reviews for the show), a sort of cult following. Sure, the characters aren't as high profile as the other 3, but it’s episodes have been getting great reviews this season, and ratings are on the up.

They also seem to be cutting the budget down for Legends, recently getting rid of its most CGI intensive member in Firestorm. Though part of that was Victor Garber leaving the show.

Supergirl is probably the MOST improved this season in terms of writing, directing, acting and overall production. And also, like you say, targets a key demo of the network. Would they cut that? The Feminist/SJW’s would have a field day with that decision.

The Flash is untouchable imo. It’s the flagship show, and has the ratings to back it up. Having said that, the show doesn’t really seem to garner the praise to match from forum posters. A lot has to do with the bleak tone of the last season. But they have changed it, like they said they would, yet still the show doesn’t seem to reach the heights of its first or second.

It’s a tough one to call.

Arrow seems to be the likely candidate, due to its age.

I would probably fold those characters into The Flash, and sprinkle them into Supergirl also. The cast all seem to have great chemistry.

Just my two cents :)

Peace.

/K

P.S. I will be amazed if Black Lightning lasts more then a season. The costume looks awful, and the character doesn’t really seem to have anything going for it tbh. Is there a fan base of Black Lightning fans out there? Guess we will find out.

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10 Dec 2017 17:53 #57627 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
I think one of Legend s producers let it slip a wile back that Legends is only ment to to run for five seasons. Couldn't they move Legends to Supernaturals time slot? Isn't Supergirl behind both Flash and Riverdale in the ratings? I think all the Arrowverse shows have had their production budgets cut this year. A lot fewer fighting scenes on all of them, especially Supergirl.

One of my worst fears of Supergirl moving from CBS to CW so CBS could go sausagefest was that its production budget would be cut. Sadly, it looks like that's exactly what's happened over season 2 and even more in season 3.

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10 Dec 2017 23:59 #57636 by Monty
Monty replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Liking the Supergirl / Reign firestorm logo for future episodes...

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11 Dec 2017 00:12 #57637 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

Liking the Supergirl / Reign firestorm logo for future episodes...


Oh nice :) First time seeing that. Looks really good :)

Cheers Monty :)

Peace.

/K

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11 Dec 2017 14:21 #57649 by lfan
lfan replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

five_red wrote:

willow wrote: I am not aware of each shows' ratings, but it could be a way to pump up Legends ratings. Maybe Supergirl is doing well, but Legends is lagging behind. So the network is trying to make use of the existing fanbase to prop up Legends. Alternatively, it could be that the story lines heavily converge so adjusting the time slot makes sense to make some Supergirl/Legends cross-over work.

Or as stated earlier, they just need a time slot to put the new shows on so they can find an audience.


Supergirl, Arrow and Legends are all doing pretty much the same in the ratings. When the third season began Supergirl had a couple of weeks as the lowest rated of the four DC cape shows, which was quite a drop from last season. Indeed Supergirl's season opener roughly matched the show's lowest ratings record thus far. Arrow and Legends subsequently both dipped slightly, however, so now Supergirl typically comes second or third in a pretty tight group. Flash has also dripped slightly over the course of its fourth season, but has maintained its dominant position, typically attracting two and a half times as many viewers as any of the other 'rival' cape shows.

(I can post updated charts, if you want.)

On a positive note, while Supergirl's raw viewers bobs up and down a little from episode to episode. the show's key demo ratings (the audience CW targets) haven't changed at all since S03 E01 (excluding the Crisis episode, which added roughly 80% to the key demo audience.) It's low, but at least it isn't dropping.

Obviously over recent years The CW has packed its weekday prime-time with classic superhero shows, and there will come a point when it will need to make changes to avoid things getting stale. One factor that (unfortunately!) has to be considered is the firing of Andrew Kreisberg, who was (as far as I can tell) Belanti's go-to comicbook nerd/expert. Given all that, I'd be surprised if The CW will abandon its lucrative access to DC Comics properties, but it might want to maybe shift away from the traditional square-jaw 'cape' heroes to explore other types of fantasy drama. I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if all of the four existing cape shows got renewed for next season; the question is which show(s) will meet the axe?

We can rule out the Flash, given its rating dominance. Arrow has maybe run its course, already clocking up the magic 100+ episodes that syndication favours -- it must be a strong contender for cancellation. Legends has never garnered stellar ratings, nor has it gained a strong online fandom -- will CW want to keep it alive simple to rack up the episode count for future sales? Supergirl has a strong online following and presumably does okay in merchandising and DVD sales(?), but is (!!allegedly!!) the most expensive of the three bottom-runners to make. Andrew Kreisberg was most hands-on with The Flash and Supergirl, so his absence doesn't help the Girl of Steel's renewal chances (seems unkind to mention that, but it's probably true, sadly!) Although -- on a more positive note -- the controversy may count in Supergirl's favour: would The CW really want to cancel a heavily female-orientated show in such a political climate..?

To be honest I can't see The CW cancelling all three low-ranked cape shows at once, but dropping two is a possibility. My guess would be Arrow and Legends -- but what worries me is just how expensive Supergirl is to make(?) When The CW took the show on from CBS, my guess is that they funded it on the expectation that it would perform closer to The Flash. Rumour has it that Supergirl's budget was cut again for its third season, which would make sense (if true) given its slow decline in ratings over the course of season two. The mixed news from season three is that the show has held very firm in the ratings, neither dropping nor climbing, but at a point that roughly matches its lowest performance from season two.

Regardless of whether you love or hate Supergirl, it is the only action/adventure/fantasy show on tv that has a real commitment to its female characters. In a reverse of the usual Hollywood formula, all of Supergirl's storylines are driven by women, and universally the key players are female (with all the men taking supporting roles.) That -- if no other reason -- demands that it deserves a chance.


R5



Good commentary and agree with everything you said. Gotta think that Arrow is running its course and is probably heading into the sunset at this point. The marriage of Oliver and Felicity kinda set them up to go off into the sunset at some point.

Legends, to me, is a convoluted mess. It has its moments but is the weakest of the bunch. That is illustrated I think by them not having their own "night" but rather riding the coattails of another property (Flash) to try and boost ratings. I wouldn't be surprised if they got got scrapped soon as well.

Flash I agree is the safest of the three for the same reasons you said. I also like to think that Supergirl, though expensive, would be the second one to keep. I think the execs would have to take into factor the killer timeslot that Supergirl is in. Monday night primetime has always (because of MNF) been a tough timeslot for overall ratings. Combine that with the fact its up against DWTS and the Voice, and that is some pretty stiff competition. Most, if not all, CW shows would lag against that competition. I like to think that Supergirl is safe for another season at least and probably 2 until it gets up to the "magic 100" episode count..

Interesting to see if DC starts migrating some of their productions to their own streaming channel to pair with Titans. I think a Legion of Super Heroes show is getting setup on Supergirl for a spinoff, and it will be interesting to see if future (post-Lightning) offering are more geared towards the DC channel.

ElF
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13 Dec 2017 00:14 #57681 by thedoc9
thedoc9 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
I forget where ai read it, but some online site posited the theory that the recently fired producer was the one they were counting on for the final stories of the season. But after the sexual harassment charges, he’s gone, and they have been left in the lurch. Hence the delay.

If this is true.... and heck, even if it isn’t true, I propose that we hold a new writing event. In short, write a one-off, monster-of-the-week spec script for Supergirl season 3. It should avoid any major stuff with the show’s status (no killing off Mon-El, for example), try to make use of existing sets, keep the FX stuff within a TV show budget, and avoid stuff the censors would reject.

Who knows? Maybe one of us can come up with something that we would be proud to send to them for real.

What do you think?
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13 Dec 2017 10:29 - 13 Dec 2017 14:51 #57691 by Monty
Monty replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

thedoc9 wrote: I forget where ai read it, but some online site posited the theory that the recently fired producer was the one they were counting on for the final stories of the season. But after the sexual harassment charges, he’s gone, and they have been left in the lurch. Hence the delay.

If this is true.... and heck, even if it isn’t true, I propose that we hold a new writing event. In short, write a one-off, monster-of-the-week spec script for Supergirl season 3. It should avoid any major stuff with the show’s status (no killing off Mon-El, for example), try to make use of existing sets, keep the FX stuff within a TV show budget, and avoid stuff the censors would reject.

Who knows? Maybe one of us can come up with something that we would be proud to send to them for real.

What do you think?


Good thoughts there, especially the last paragraph. I've always been intrigued with the idea of power transfer (possibly, probably shared) to someone such as Alex or Lena, either through Kara or Reign.
Reign would be good for shared transfer to inherit the bad-ass characteristics, and Lena would be an ideal recipient. (Drive her nuts with her new powers, take down her enemy Morgan for good). Possible amnesia once (if) the transfer is reversed.
The introduction of Reign this season would leave the show looking rushed / cluttered, so a possible cliff-hanger for end or mid of next season perhaps?
Last Edit: 13 Dec 2017 14:51 by Monty.

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13 Dec 2017 11:44 #57695 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Thats actually a pretty good point doc9.

Peace.

/K
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13 Dec 2017 17:14 #57704 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

thedoc9 wrote: I forget where ai read it, but some online site posited the theory that the recently fired producer was the one they were counting on for the final stories of the season. But after the sexual harassment charges, he’s gone, and they have been left in the lurch. Hence the delay.


This has given me some small amount of hope -- have a "THANK YOU" by way of reward. :)

Despite my gut feeling that Arrow and Legends were marginally the weaker of the three low-ranked cape shows, word on the street was that Supergirl was a serious contender for the chop, and the fact that it was now time-sharing with Legends seemed to lean in that direction. But Kreisberg was the most senior showrunner on Supergirl (and The Flash), and was possibly down to play a big part in scripting the finale. It must be noted that AK's producer credit had already been removed from the recently broadcast S03 E09 (he retains his 'developed for television' credit, alongside Ali Adler), so whatever story outlines and script drafts he has already contributed to the show will likely have to be reworked for legal/contractual/PR reasons. I'm no lawyer, but if AK was a major player in plotting or writing Supergirl's final two-parter, then the remaining producers may well have had to devise an entirely new ending for the show.

This does beg the question of why The Flash isn't facing similar delays, but perhaps AK's involvement in that show's finale wasn't so extreme, or perhaps Belanti and co realised that the workload of an emergency rewrite on two shows simultaneously would be too much, so prioritised The Flash(?)

If indeed AK's departure is the reason for the strange scheduling (which is a very plausible reason!), then this must surely boost confidence that Supergirl will be renewed for a fourth season. If this isn't the case, however, then the opposite is true. I guess we'll find out in the coming months...

As for actually showing the producers/writers any output from a writing competition, it should be pointed out that for legal reason the writers won't look at any story ideas or scripts from outside the show's on-staff creative talent. (But you all probably knew that already, right..?)

Anyway... Kara will be busy over Christmas, so she'll need a short break...

R5

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13 Dec 2017 18:18 #57707 by Markiehoe
Markiehoe replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Way back when I sent some fan fiction into an editor and asked him to review it.
He politely told me that he would not even look at it for precisely the reasons five red stated.

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13 Dec 2017 20:24 #57712 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

As for actually showing the producers/writers any output from a writing competition, it should be pointed out that for legal reason the writers won't look at any story ideas or scripts from outside the show's on-staff creative talent.


This is probably true for most creative businesses. I know Wizards of the Coast (who produce Magic: The Gathering among other things) don't look at ANY fan submitted stuff, exactly for legal reasons.

Peace.

/K

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14 Dec 2017 00:57 #57714 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
Does contender for the chop mean cancellation? If that was true, then why give the show a 23 episode order instead of just 22?

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14 Dec 2017 02:08 - 14 Dec 2017 14:33 #57716 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”

andyf wrote: Does contender for the chop mean cancellation? If that was true, then why give the show a 23 episode order instead of just 22?


20 + 22 + 23 = 65
65 / 5 = 13
52 / 4 = 13


It's probably pure coincidence, but it has to be noted that 23 would take the show to 65 episodes in total, which would be 13 weeks -- one whole quarter -- when screened at five episodes per week. So perhaps the extra episode would make the show that little bit more valuable as a syndication package? Or... perhaps it's just pure coincidence. :P

EDIT: The fact that someone at Warner Bros decided to order enough episodes to make a 13 week syndication package possible is -- assuming it means anything at all -- just good business sense. Yes, it does make it a tad easier for WB/CW to cancel Supergirl if they wanted (which is why it makes good business sense), but it doesn't necessarily mean the show will be cancelled. The idea of giving this season 23 episodes would likely have first been suggested before the season even began filming, when actor's schedules etc were being worked out. A big part of that decision will have been future sales of the show, which (remember) play a much bigger role in the profitability of shows at CW than at networks like CBS. Possibly schedules were created around an initial order of episodes, with an option to extend up to a given limit later on -- just like how CBS ordered 13, then extended to 20 after the show started to air.

R5

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14 Dec 2017 02:56 #57717 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: CW To Rotate “Supergirl” & “DC’s Legends”
None of the major TV ratings\news sites say the show is in danger. In fact, they all say its most likely to get renewed. This is,at best just a rumor nobody can prove.

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