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Season 2 - Superman appearing

09 Jun 2016 19:19 #48406 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

five_red wrote:
Remember, in the pre-Crisis era, Power Girl was older than Supergirl. The exact age of both women was never really established, but their life outside of their costumes gives us a rough idea at how old DC thought they were. Linda Danvers was probably in her early 20s given that she spent most of her time in college or starting a career, while Karen Starr was often depicted as already having established herself successfully into a career. Karen Starr, I think, was closer to Clark Kent and Diana Prince's apparent age -- maybe a bit younger. So an older Power Girl makes sense in terms of comics lore.
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Ack! I can't let this pass! it's a pet peeve. ;-)

Sorry, this is just not correct, you are confusing post-crisis Power Girl with pre-crisis Power Girl, and mis-remembering Supergirl's age pre-crisis. Pre-crisis Supergirl was older than Power Girl.

I'll give you that their exact ages aren't established, but what you are saying in crazy-talk. ;-)

In the early 70's Supergirl had graduated from college, went back an got a masters (she had a masters in Princess of the Golden Sun, published in 1974, this is one of my favorite Uber girl stories ever). She had even graduated college, worked a few jobs, then went back for her masters! This means she's 25 at least (graduated at 22, year off, 2 years for a masters).

And after her masters, she'd taken a few jobs before Power Girl was introduced in 1976. Go back and look at the early All Star Comics run (58-66) & Adventure Comics, she doesn't own a company, she doesn't have an established successful career and she's just starting out as a hero. She's more in line with 16-22 (early 20's at best) vs Supergirl who is definitely older than 25. (Google All Star 58 and you'll get early art of Power Girl, and you can guess her age that way too.) Power Girl is YOUNG, she's not college graduate aged, nor do I think she'd wait till older than 18 to start to be a hero. I've always pegged her as 17 in All Star 58 as she appears and says, "I promised my cousin I'd wait a few more months before revealing myself" ... and 18 seems like an age where Superman could no longer keep her from the spotlight. So my best guess is she's 17, a few months from 18. And if i adjusted that, I'd adjust DOWN, not up, as I can't see someone with her personality waiting around until she was 21. But even so, that's 20/21, not 25!

She doesn't even become Karen Starr until 1978 (Showcase 99).

In Who's Who Aug 86, her occupation is listed as "Software Designer", and that she works for Ultimate Computer Corporation (i.e. not her own company), and it mentions her setting up her identity beforehand (i.e Showcase in '78). So in 1986, she's basically in her first job, and *might* be about as old as Supergirl was in 1975 (when she already had a Masters degree). PG skipped going to college, I think she just created her experience as part of her fake identity.

Here's her Chronology: comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=43 (I looked at it trying to figure out when she started her company.) It's not when she was in Skartaris, I think it's after she got back. I don't think she started it in Infinity Inc -- but that's the only other place it could have happened. If I knew were all my infinity incs were, I'd pull them out and read them.

The first comic I could easily find/pull that she had her company was Power Girl #1 1988. Unless she did it in Infinity Inc, this is pretty much the first chance since '86 where she might have done that. This is the point where she's just matching where Supergirl was when she died in Crisis. Anyway, her company is POST crisis. It does sort of just magically appear from nothing.

I know this confuses people because the modern take is that Supergirl and Power Girl are dimensional doppelgängers of each other, but this wasn't the case initially. Even Clark and Bruce weren't direct copies! For one the Earth 2 versions are older (Superman is Power Girl's adopted father!). Secondly, the analogs for Flash and Green Lantern aren't matches. Power Girl was always meant to be Earth 2's version of Supergirl just like Jay Garrick is the Flash, but she's NOT a genetic clone of Supergirl any more than Jay or Alan Scott are of Barry or Hal. Just look the art for PG, and any art for Supergirl. PG's body type was different from her first appearance. Shit, just look at the boob size! But it's not just that, PG is stockier, with a more exaggerated hourglass figure (bigger hips, wider shoulders), and more muscular than Supergirl is shown. Supergirl could build up her muscles, but at 25, Supergirl's boobs aren't going to be getting any bigger w/o surgery (which would be difficult!).

In the 80's PG is drawn thinner, look at most of the Warlord, Infinity Inc, and Power Girl appearances. She's drawn closer to the classic Supergirls body shape. I think it's in the JLE run where she starts to get more muscular again. (I'd say for the 70's she was pretty fit in her depictions in All Star, so it was really just returning to her original depiction.)

And we don't have a Supergirl back until she's brought back in the Turner-era. They don't really say her age there, but just looking at her she's younger than the now-mature Power Girl. Power Girl has just aged up since '85 when Supergirl died, and Supergirl was brought back as much younger than she was when she died. And in the DC52 it's established they ARE genetically identical, and Power Girl is older. (I do not like this.)

But, your original statement isn't correct, there's just no way the pre-crisis Power Girl was older than Supergirl. Just the idea that PG waited until > 25 to start to be a hero doesn't fit her personality!

Sorry, couldn't help myself .... this is one of those things that i've heard people say that is just wrong (it's funny how memory works). And I mean I've corrected friends who BOUGHT all these issues off the rack from saying the same thing. I mean they know better, it's just hard to remember what it was like back then even if you were alive and collecting comics.

OTH, I've been buying a lot of the pre-74 super girls and as I said the issue after she got her masters is one of my favorite comics, I read it in a collection, and bought it for real a decade or so back. So this sets Supergirl's age for me, to me she's about 25 in my favorite story ... so that's how I first think of her. I'm pretty sure most everyone else thinks of her as a "girl" (pre college graduate), this has been true since 2003 when she came back, and was true pre-70 or so too.

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10 Jun 2016 01:04 - 10 Jun 2016 01:05 #48425 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Boom Boom Boom

www.comicbookresources.com/article/cbs-c...in-supergirl-s2-2016

Tom Welling is suddenly unemployed
Last edit: 10 Jun 2016 01:05 by Markiehoe. Reason: capitalization

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10 Jun 2016 03:44 #48429 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

five_red wrote:
And in the DC52 it's established they ARE genetically identical, and Power Girl is older. (I do not like this.)


Well, if they are genetically identical, and PG is older with a more mature figure, then I guess in time we have this to look forward to for Supergirl:


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10 Jun 2016 03:53 #48430 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
And PG in the Warlord series wasn't exactly skinny.

Given how muscular Superman was, I always figured it was fitting that Kryptonians had powerful physiques, male and females.



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10 Jun 2016 03:56 #48431 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
And in Showcase 85, she was seriously muscular:

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10 Jun 2016 04:52 #48432 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Big boobs on Supergirl is the only upside to them being genetically identical ... I guess that's a pretty good upside though. ;-)

Yes, thankfully the "skinnier" PG didn't stick around for long. Though there were some before that too.

And I agree, Kryptonians should be buff.

I remember it varying a bit in Warlord (I have all those issues, but it has been a loooooong time, maybe since they actually came out). I did find most of my warlords when I was spelunking in my unordered comic book collection, so I'm going to have to pull those out. She's more buff here than I remembered, so it'll be a good time. Plus, Jennifer Morgan. woo. ;-). (This was when PG was the daughter of Arion, and was in Skartaris looking for clues to her past. HEr powers power magical in nature, instead of being Kryptonian. Glad that's done with. Poor Power Girl and her shifting origins...)

I seem to recall Infinity Inc being ok in one, but in most I thought she was too skinny. And in her first PG series she's too skinny (even if she's pretty fit in the cover image):

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Power_Girl_(1988)_1.jpg

But yes, in the All Star's, Adventure Comics and Showcase she's nicely buff (doubly so for the time) and I like her that way. There a story that Wally Wood kept upping her boob size each issue and was going to stop when someone noticed and told him to stop. And they never did. ;-). I think there is only a bit of truth to that as even in the first issues she's stacked.

One of the reasons I like "The Princess of the Golden Sun" (Superman Family #165) is that in the comic she's leanly muscled -- she's not huge but for '74, Tlaca is pretty damn fit, with great legs. And she's fighting Supergirl who also has great legs and is wearing short shorts to show them off.... If you've never read the story you really need too. Except whenever I see the issue for sale at a convention I tend to buy it if it's not too much. I don't want them getting lonely. So I buy them and take them home.

Heh. If you google her name you find my commission of Tlaca. ;-). (AFAIK , there are only two.)

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10 Jun 2016 05:38 #48433 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: Big boobs on Supergirl is the only upside to them being genetically identical ... I guess that's a pretty good upside though. ;-)

...

One of the reasons I like "The Princess of the Golden Sun" (Superman Family #165) is that in the comic she's leanly muscled -- she's not huge but for '74, Tlaca is pretty damn fit, with great legs. And she's fighting Supergirl who also has great legs and is wearing short shorts to show them off.... If you've never read the story you really need too. Except whenever I see the issue for sale at a convention I tend to buy it if it's not too much. I don't want them getting lonely. So I buy them and take them home.

Heh. If you google her name you find my commission of Tlaca. ;-). (AFAIK , there are only two.)


I'm pretty certain I have that comic. I certainly remember Tlaca. Have to dig into the archives (two tall, deep 4-drawer legal file cabinets stuffed full with comic books). Unfortunately, not organized very well. But sometimes, the cool stuff I find during the hunt makes it all worth while. I'm on very good terms with Serendipity herself.

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16 Jun 2016 18:55 #48604 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Supergirl Casts Tyler Hoechlin as Superman for Season 2

Tyler Hoechlin has been cast as Superman/Clark Kent in Season 2 of the Greg Berlanti-produced drama Supergirl. The show will be moving from CBS to The CW for its second year.

Hoechlin prior roles includes MTV's Teen Wolf, Road To Perdition, Hall Pass and Solstice. He recently starred in Richard Linklater’s “Everybody Wants Some!!” alongside Blake Jenner the husband of “Supergirl” star Melissa Benoist, Jenner also appeared on the series as Cat Grant's son Adam Foster.

Executive producer Andrew Kreisberg gave the following statement about the casting, "Greg and I have wanted to work with Tyler for ages, so this worked out perfectly because Tyler is Superman". “We are so thrilled and humbled to add another amazing actor to the legacy of this iconic character.”

When the Superman character addition was announced earlier this month, Kreisberg released a statement on behalf of the show’s producing team, which includes Berlanti and Ali Adler. “Greg, Ali and I are beyond thrilled to welcome Clark Kent and his slightly-more-famous alter ego to the world of ‘Supergirl,'” “Superman will be appearing in the first two episodes of the new season.

Supergirl returns for season two on Mondays this fall at 8 pm on The CW.

Source: Variety

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16 Jun 2016 20:26 #48606 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

fats wrote: Supergirl Casts Tyler Hoechlin as Superman for Season 2


“Superman will be appearing in the first two episodes of the new season.

Supergirl returns for season two on Mondays this fall at 8 pm on The CW.

Source: Variety

Fats


I think the comment about "appearing in the first two episodes" strengthens the case that he's been brought on board to deal with whomever (or whatever) is in the pod. Once that's squared away, then he can retreat back to Metropolis for the rest of the season and leave Kara to do her thing.

The betting starts now... I'm betting we only see him as Clark Kent. Never in costume, or at most, a quick glimpse as he flies off or flies in. As much as I'd love to see the two super cousins in costume, working together to fight some bad guy, I suspect that won't happen on Supergirl TV.

Any one want to bet differently?

Shadar

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16 Jun 2016 21:37 #48607 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I'll take that bet.

The CW won't miss the chance for a ratings bump by not showing Supes and Supergirl together.

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16 Jun 2016 22:13 - 16 Jun 2016 22:15 #48611 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

Markiehoe wrote: I'll take that bet.

The CW won't miss the chance for a ratings bump by not showing Supes and Supergirl together.


Hope you win this one, Markiehoe. But I'm thinking they don't want to undercut Kara. They need to show her growing stronger and more confident.

But even if I'm right about this (and everything's questionable at this point), if ratings sag unexpectedly later in the season (as Season 1 did), they'd have a damn nice tool in their back pocket to boost them. The crossover with Flash served that purpose in Season 1.

If they needed it, they could promote the joint appearance with some images of them either fighting each other (an old comics theme) or teaming up to take down some super bad guy. Just don't cash that nugget in during the first two episodes (where he is reported to appear).
Last edit: 16 Jun 2016 22:15 by shadar.
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20 Jun 2016 13:20 #48697 by andyf
Replied by andyf on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
One weird coincidence with Tyler Hoechlin getting cast is that he co-stars with Melissa Benoist's husband, Blake Jenner in the Richard Linkletter film Everybody Wants some.

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12 Jul 2016 04:12 - 12 Jul 2016 04:34 #49086 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Watching the MLB Allstar festivities right now and the celebrity softball game is going on. Tyler Hochlein is Superman on the softball field! Made a sick play at shortstop and them jacked a home run in his first at bat.

Announcers said he played baseball for Arizona State in college. It shows.

ElF

UPDATE: Tyler's team won, and he was named game MVP
Last edit: 12 Jul 2016 04:34 by lfan.

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29 Jul 2016 01:43 - 29 Jul 2016 10:28 #49354 by angels
Replied by angels on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
And here we are:

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(sorry - couldn't get the image to display)

[R5 EDIT: Fixed]

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Last edit: 29 Jul 2016 10:28 by five_red.

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31 Jul 2016 09:09 #49372 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't Supergirl's costume made from locally sourced fabrics by her geeky friend? After going through several variations?

Because why the $*@#( is Superman's costume made out of the same stuff?

And if the friend was just copying big blue, why would there have been half a dozen miss-steps in basic material choice?

(Part of my brain also itches that the one thing that should be the same - the house crest - isn't.)

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31 Jul 2016 14:43 #49376 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

AuGoose wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't Supergirl's costume made from locally sourced fabrics by her geeky friend? After going through several variations?

Because why the $*@#( is Superman's costume made out of the same stuff?

And if the friend was just copying big blue, why would there have been half a dozen miss-steps in basic material choice?

(Part of my brain also itches that the one thing that should be the same - the house crest - isn't.)



I thought the same thing. But, obviously, we are geeking out on logic and reason here. Likely the producers told the costumers to "make it like Supergirl's" without taking the time to recall how they got her costume in the first place. This is the same kind of lazy, shallow thinking that caused problems in Season 1.

You would think that there would be some discussion and give and take among the show developers.

Perhaps this is the first indication that Season 2 will also be carelessly produced?

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31 Jul 2016 17:53 #49379 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

AuGoose wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but wasn't Supergirl's costume made from locally sourced fabrics by her geeky friend? After going through several variations?

Because why the $*@#( is Superman's costume made out of the same stuff?

And if the friend was just copying big blue, why would there have been half a dozen miss-steps in basic material choice?

(Part of my brain also itches that the one thing that should be the same - the house crest - isn't.)


I don't want to comment on the fabric thing, but on the crest I think that having some differences isn't unreasonable. Kal and Kara are from two different branches of the house of El and each one, perhaps, afopted some slight variation on the family crest. In our histiry many noble houses, or even single individuals did so.

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01 Aug 2016 20:37 - 01 Aug 2016 20:38 #49387 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
This is a break from the serious talk of the uniform. (Personally I think the crest is explained, it was locally made and a different EL branch. My guess with the fabric is that they either picked something to simulate the look of Kal-el's costume *or* his isn't Kryptonian and just happens to be made out of the same stuff. Or perhaps since the US government has some Kryptonian tech, it could be the Earth fabric is based off the military's attempt to duplicate the fabric ... considering it's durability, you'd think it'd be a primary target for adapting tech, and a non-damaging thing to let out to select places (we don't know where Winn got the material).

This hit my twitter feed like wildfire. I follow a few female comics creators and a few female geeks. So not the thing that will likely do it for those here, but I found the reactions hilarious.

G. Willow Wilson's (writer of Ms. Marvel) response was "BRB BURNING MY MARVEL EXCLUSIVE"

My response was "now we know where male Kryptonians store excess energy...."

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01 Aug 2016 21:04 - 01 Aug 2016 21:10 #49388 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: This is a break from the serious talk of the uniform. (Personally I think the crest is explained, it was locally made and a different EL branch. My guess with the fabric is that they either picked something to simulate the look of Kal-el's costume *or* his isn't Kryptonian and just happens to be made out of the same stuff. Or perhaps since the US government has some Kryptonian tech, it could be the Earth fabric is based off the military's attempt to duplicate the fabric ... considering it's durability, you'd think it'd be a primary target for adapting tech, and a non-damaging thing to let out to select places (we don't know where Winn got the material).

This hit my twitter feed like wildfire. I follow a few female comics creators and a few female geeks. So not the thing that will likely do it for those here, but I found the reactions hilarious.

G. Willow Wilson's (writer of Ms. Marvel) response was "BRB BURNING MY MARVEL EXCLUSIVE"

My response was "now we know where male Kryptonians store excess energy...."


I suppose your picture could be construed as the equivalent of the (usually) oversized but inhumanly perky Velorian breast. But does it also grow or shrink based on stored energy load?

Humorously, at the time I saw your post, I was reading an article about deer antlers and how the bigger ones denote most desirable males in the eyes of does. Nature does have its ways of denoting the sexually potent via size.

No reason not to think that superhumans have carried this common trait in nature to more interesting anatomical areas. Out of necessity, of course.

Shadar
Last edit: 01 Aug 2016 21:10 by shadar.

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