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Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)

25 Mar 2019 07:38 - 25 Mar 2019 07:45 #63390 by slim36
Melissa  plays "Red Daugther" a possible Dark Supergirl with a Hammer instead of "S" crest?   She has some health issues.
Last edit: 25 Mar 2019 07:45 by slim36.

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25 Mar 2019 12:20 - 25 Mar 2019 12:22 #63393 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
As many know, I have been VERY critical of this show this season.  So much so, that I stopped watching it around episode 10 i think.

BUT, hearing Lex was coming to the show gave me a chance to check it out again.  And so I caught up on what I missed.

Most of the episodes were forgettable tbh.  But the last two with Lex were FANTASTIC.

Especially this episode.

I think 4x16 is probably one of, if not the, best episodes of the WHOLE SERIES.

It not only introduces one of the greatest villains ever, it also produces one of the greatest ret-cons ever.

The tone of the piece is so comic book-y, in terms of scope and style.

We are given motivation for the main characters, namely Lex, and also fix all the problems of the season so far.

How is this accomplished?  BETTER WRITING!

Ditch highlighting the stupid politics of your show, and focus instead on the characters and world of the comic book.

Ofc the politics were there, they never go away no matter which side you bat for.  But they flowed naturally in this episode, and were never forced down your throat.

There was a logical motivation to it.  And it worked sooooo well imo.

The biggest highlight ofc was Lex Luthor.

I am not really aware of Jon Cryer's work, only really knowing him as a comedic actor.  But boy is he FANTASTIC as Lex.

His composure, his mannerisms, even his look (I'll excuse the beard :P ) is great.

And his characterization is brilliant.  Kudos to the writers for capturing that ruthless, calculating megalomania so well.  Helped ofc by Cryer's delivery and performance.

There were some nice callbacks too, notably Superman 2 and the prison scene.

WHY O WHY CAN'T THE WHOLE SEASON BE LIKE THIS?????????

Get rid of all the shit writers and political ideologues and keep the writers of the last 2 episodes.  Trust me, the show will be better for it.  You messaging will come out, it just wont be ham-fisted and rammed down our throats.

For the first time in AGES, I am actually looking forward to next weeks episode.

And that is something I didn't think would ever happen again.

Kudos to Team Supergirl.

NOW CARRY THIS ON!

Peace.

/K

P.S.  PLEASE DO NOT LET FRIKING JAMES OLSEN GET SUPER POWERS!!!!!!  He was unbearable when he was a non-powered hero as Guardian!  Ditch that storyline (if it exists), and ditch this character also.
Last edit: 25 Mar 2019 12:22 by kikass2014.
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25 Mar 2019 15:46 #63395 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)

kikass2014 wrote: As many know, I have been VERY critical of this show this season.  So much so, that I stopped watching it around episode 10 i think.

BUT, hearing Lex was coming to the show gave me a chance to check it out again.  And so I caught up on what I missed.

Most of the episodes were forgettable tbh.  But the last two with Lex were FANTASTIC.

Especially this episode.

I think 4x16 is probably one of, if not the, best episodes of the WHOLE SERIES.

It not only introduces one of the greatest villains ever, it also produces one of the greatest ret-cons ever.

The tone of the piece is so comic book-y, in terms of scope and style.

We are given motivation for the main characters, namely Lex, and also fix all the problems of the season so far.

How is this accomplished?  BETTER WRITING!

Ditch highlighting the stupid politics of your show, and focus instead on the characters and world of the comic book.

Ofc the politics were there, they never go away no matter which side you bat for.  But they flowed naturally in this episode, and were never forced down your throat.

There was a logical motivation to it.  And it worked sooooo well imo.

The biggest highlight ofc was Lex Luthor.

I am not really aware of Jon Cryer's work, only really knowing him as a comedic actor.  But boy is he FANTASTIC as Lex.

His composure, his mannerisms, even his look (I'll excuse the beard :P ) is great.

And his characterization is brilliant.  Kudos to the writers for capturing that ruthless, calculating megalomania so well.  Helped ofc by Cryer's delivery and performance.

There were some nice callbacks too, notably Superman 2 and the prison scene.

WHY O WHY CAN'T THE WHOLE SEASON BE LIKE THIS?????????

Get rid of all the shit writers and political ideologues and keep the writers of the last 2 episodes.  Trust me, the show will be better for it.  You messaging will come out, it just wont be ham-fisted and rammed down our throats.

For the first time in AGES, I am actually looking forward to next weeks episode.

And that is something I didn't think would ever happen again.

Kudos to Team Supergirl.

NOW CARRY THIS ON!

Peace.

/K

P.S.  PLEASE DO NOT LET FRIKING JAMES OLSEN GET SUPER POWERS!!!!!!  He was unbearable when he was a non-powered hero as Guardian!  Ditch that storyline (if it exists), and ditch this character also.


Interesting that we both rediscovered the show an episode apart. I started to get interested at 4x15 as I indicated last week. Haven't seen 4x16 yet, but but it sounds like they continued in the same vein with a different director. 

The odd thing is, the writers didn't change. Same bunch. I figured 4x15 was great due to a new director, but she didn't do 4x16 and your review here says it's also excellent. The change either has to be direction from the show-runner or maybe they all got inspired iwth the Lex Luthor thing and broke out from their usual group hug.

Whatever... I sure hope it continues.

Shadar
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25 Mar 2019 17:25 - 25 Mar 2019 17:27 #63396 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
Yeah I'm not sure either what this sudden change is.  I think you are right in that it must be on the show runner level or something.

I did notice however, that Eric Carrasco was the writer of 4x16 and the executive story writer on 4x15.

He has only written a few episodes, 2 of which were directed and co-written with Kevin Smith (who had him on his show Fatman Beyond).

He is a very talented writer by Smith's account, and a comic book geek, having also written for Justice League animations and a Star Wars short. That could explain a lot of the quality in the last 2 episodes. 

As an example of the level of detail in his writing, this is a quote from one of Carrasco's tweets regarding this (4x16) episode:

"Bobby Fischer lost the first game of the 1972 World Championship to Boris Spassky. Me, Marcella (again!), Jon, and Melissa, replicated the endgame. The moves Lex and Red Daughter are playing are the actual last few moves."


Additionally, this is from IMDB regarding Jon Cryer on taking on the role of Lex:

Jon Cryer played Lex Luthor's nephew Lenny Luthor in  Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987), According to Cryer himself, he stated that the film's less than sterling reputation was half the reason he accepted the role, alongside his love of the first Superman movie and the comics, as he wanted the opportunity to do the Luthor name justice.


Amazing what you can accomplish when you have ppl with passion working on it :)

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 25 Mar 2019 17:27 by kikass2014.
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25 Mar 2019 17:55 #63397 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)

kikass2014 wrote: Yeah I'm not sure either what this sudden change is.  I think you are right in that it must be on the show runner level or something.

I did notice however, that Eric Carrasco was the writer of 4x16 and the executive story writer on 4x15.

He has only written a few episodes, 2 of which were directed and co-written with Kevin Smith (who had him on his show Fatman Beyond).

He is a very talented writer by Smith's account, and a comic book geek, having also written for Justice League animations and a Star Wars short. That could explain a lot of the quality in the last 2 episodes. 

As an example of the level of detail in his writing, this is a quote from one of Carrasco's tweets regarding this (4x16) episode:

"Bobby Fischer lost the first game of the 1972 World Championship to Boris Spassky. Me, Marcella (again!), Jon, and Melissa, replicated the endgame. The moves Lex and Red Daughter are playing are the actual last few moves."


Additionally, this is from IMDB regarding Jon Cryer on taking on the role of Lex:

Jon Cryer played Lex Luthor's nephew Lenny Luthor in  Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987), According to Cryer himself, he stated that the film's less than sterling reputation was half the reason he accepted the role, alongside his love of the first Superman movie and the comics, as he wanted the opportunity to do the Luthor name justice.


Amazing what you can accomplish when you have ppl with passion working on it :)

Peace.

/K


Maybe you've found the vital component, K. Eric Carrasco. I was guessing Director last week, but I was clearly wrong.

I suspect all it takes is one guy in charge of the writing who has good ideas and gets people to listen. The writers can't all be idiots despite what they often churn out. 

Anyway, hard to tease out the truth from where we sit, but if Eric is the common denominator for this revival of good storytelling, then I'm a fan of his.

Shadar
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26 Mar 2019 21:45 #63418 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
Melissa had some real acting to do in this episode, playing Red Supergirl who was discovering her powers, and speaking in a Russian accent (kind of). 

I enjoyed her portrayal of her other half. Nice to see her as something other than syrupy sweet and too nice Kara Danvers. 

They did a good job of planting both the seeds of her being Lex Luthor's hammer, and also the seeds of what will be her eventual rebellion. Decent writing on that, although the directing left a bit on the table. 

On a side note, Melissa seems to be in better shape now than she's been at times. Something that was visible when they fitted Red with tighter clothing than usual for Melissa (costume excepting, which we still don't see a lot of). 

And, of course, Lex is playing his usual hyper-intelligent game of corruption and mind-fucking. He's brilliant at it, and starting with Red as a near blank slate, he's in his element, shaping her into his weapon. 

The only thing that bugged me was his easy comings and goings from prison, which he seems to use solely as an alibi.  I suppose I should have expected that he would corrupt everyone in the prison, on both sides of the bars, but his coming and going at will wasn't believable. But it was also the only way to see Lex in all his black glory.  I'll give the writers a pass on this one. Comic books.

Shadar

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26 Mar 2019 21:53 #63419 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
what I like is that they gave Andrea Brooks more of a role within the show, she's finally had the chance to show off her acting skills and not be the dumb one within the show.

Fats
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26 Mar 2019 23:41 #63421 by Cerebasan
Replied by Cerebasan on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
Wouldn't it be great if miss T got powers????

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27 Mar 2019 02:07 #63422 by Raa
Replied by Raa on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)
I personally loved how Lex walked down the hall calling out chess moves and saying checkmate at the end.

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27 Mar 2019 06:01 #63423 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Supergirl 4x16 The House of L(spoiler)

Raa wrote: I personally loved how Lex walked down the hall calling out chess moves and saying checkmate at the end.


I used to know a guy who could play chess against a dozen opponents at once -- and almost always win. The chess club had a big circle of tables set up and he'd just walk around and around inside the circle, with each player waiting until he got to their board to make their move so he could see it. He'd think for a second or two and then call out his move. The chess scene in the prison reminded me of that. Except Lex had it all in his head. 

Also, as an old chess nut, it was even more interesting to see Red playing a game with Lex where they were deeply into an end game with a mostly empty board before she finally saw it was hopeless and conceded. She'd have to be damn good to hang in there with Lex that long. 

It appears that Red thinks more like a Kryptonian than Kara, who has been "humanized" by living among us, bringing her thinking down to our level. Kara isn't unusually smart, even though native Kryptonians were supposed to be extremelly intelligent. And, of course, Red is being taught by super-genius Lex.

What she lacks is experience. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the inevitable Kara versus Red fight. 

PS: This episode reminds me a little of the Supergirl comic back when Supergirl was the shapechanger Mae. She was both Luthor's girlfriend and his weapon. Leave it to Lex to have a girlfriend with Supergirl's powers who could also transform herself into anyone (or anything) he wanted her to. That's where I first picked up an interest in shapechangers and the story possibilities. 

Shadar
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