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Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

13 Oct 2016 19:31 #50702 by fats
Comic book heroine Wonder Woman is to be named as a new honorary ambassador for the United Nations (UN).

The character will be used to promote messages about women's empowerment and gender-based violence, the UN said.

DC Entertainment president Diane Nelson will accept the role for her company's comic book, TV and film character at a ceremony on 21 October.

The DC comics site hinted that actresses who have played Wonder Women will also attend the event.

The campaign is being sponsored by Warner Bros and DC Entertainment who are supporting the UN and Unicef's year-long campaign for gender equality and women's empowerment.

more here www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37645131

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13 Oct 2016 22:39 #50707 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
I don't know whether to laugh or cry :S

She is a fictional person right? :unsure: Anyhow...:whistle:

Peace.

/K

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13 Oct 2016 22:45 #50708 by KarkClent
Replied by KarkClent on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Hey, if Elmo can do it...

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14 Oct 2016 16:27 - 14 Oct 2016 16:27 #50717 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Thought I read that both Lynda Carter and Gal Gadot will be at the ceremony.
Last edit: 14 Oct 2016 16:27 by jdrock24.

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14 Oct 2016 16:59 #50719 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
I just hope she doesn't accidentally crash her invisible plane into one of the UN's black helicopters.

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14 Oct 2016 17:48 #50720 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

kikass2014 wrote: I don't know whether to laugh or cry :S

She is a fictional person right? :unsure: Anyhow...:whistle:

Peace.

/K


Why not?

It's a symbolic position and she's generally considered a symbol of female empowerment. Also, it's not the first time in history that a fictional character is awarded real world honors: when the original Flattop died in the Dick Tracy comic strip there were several funeral wakes in various cities; in Japan there are graves for both the original Godzilla and the fictional policeman Heiji Zenigata; in the city of Lecco in Italy (not far from where I live) there are number of locations marked as the places of the historical novel "I Promessi Sposi" (the Betrothed) and son on.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

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14 Oct 2016 20:42 - 14 Oct 2016 20:42 #50723 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

Why not?

It's a symbolic position and she's generally considered a symbol of female empowerment. Also, it's not the first time in history that a fictional character is awarded real world honors: when the original Flattop died in the Dick Tracy comic strip there were several funeral wakes in various cities; in Japan there are graves for both the original Godzilla and the fictional policeman Heiji Zenigata; in the city of Lecco in Italy (not far from where I live) there are number of locations marked as the places of the historical novel "I Promessi Sposi" (the Betrothed) and son on.


And I would respond a similar way to each of those too. Especially this one:

when the original Flattop died in the Dick Tracy comic strip there were several funeral wakes in various cities...


And this one:

in Japan there are graves for both the original Godzilla and the fictional policeman Heiji Zenigata


Maybe I'm the only one, who knows, but I find all these both hilariously funny and simultaneously deeply tragic.

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 14 Oct 2016 20:42 by kikass2014.

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21 Oct 2016 18:08 - 21 Oct 2016 18:14 #50823 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Lynda and Gal at the UN this morning:

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Last edit: 21 Oct 2016 18:14 by jdrock24.
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22 Oct 2016 13:34 #50833 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Gotta say, Lynda Carter STILL looks amazing :)

Peace.

/K

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13 Dec 2016 11:40 #51697 by fats
WW has now lost the role

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38300727

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13 Dec 2016 21:13 #51713 by Markiehoe
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What was some of the complaints?

She was too Busty

Too American

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13 Dec 2016 21:32 #51716 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

Markiehoe wrote: What was some of the complaints?

She was too Busty

Too American


Supposedly just too skimpily dressed and sexualized to be an example for modern women. Most of the protesters seemed to be women based on the pictures I've seen.

At least that's what the UN protesters claimed. I don't know who the 45,000 people are who signed the petition to get her removed.

But you might be right. With the UN, you never know for sure what people are thinking but not saying out loud because it's politically incorrect.

Shadar

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14 Dec 2016 01:00 #51719 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
The complaints don't have to go one inch beyond "She's a corporate property and this whole thing was a deliberate set-up to promote a movie."

Really, it begins and ends RIGHT THERE.

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15 Dec 2016 16:21 #51740 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Is there any better example of the silliness of the dolts who run the UN than this?

First, they give WW the title and then yank it away because a few people complain that WW is too white, too busty, and dresses to sexily. Now I'm not a woman so I have no idea how feminism is supposed to operate, but is complaining about a strong female role model that a number of young girls have admired for the past 70+ years really the way to go?

I mean, good for you people who signed the petition. You won! But what did you really "win"? WW is a fictional character. She's not somewhere in a corner crying over this. DC Comics and WB are not going to stop producing WW comics and movies. (Who, by the way, had nothing to do with the UN naming WW an honorary ambassador in the first place. The UN came to them with the idea, not the other way around.) In other words, this seems like a pretty hollow victory.

Meanwhile, the real problems facing women, such as the continued oppression in Muslim countries, sex slavery, rape, etc...continue unabated. Would WW have helped with any of these problems? Probably not, that was why she was an "honorary" ambassador. More a symbol of female empowerment than anything else. I keep hearing from some people who signed the petition to remove her that it is a good thing because now they can get a real woman to represent women. Well hell! Why wasn't there one of those before?!! Just silly all the way around.

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15 Dec 2016 19:01 #51743 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

jdrock24 wrote: First, they give WW the title and then yank it away because a few people complain that WW is too white, too busty, and dresses to sexily.


As I see it, she doesn't represent the women of the countries who really need a symbol, honorary or not, of feminine empowerment. Those countries tend to be non-white and without strong democracies and often imbued with an excess of fundamental religious thinking. A half-naked highly-exaggerated white woman dressed in a colorful swimsuit derived from American nationalist symbols whose 'job' is to make money for a gigantic entertainment company is not their idea of empowerment.

Women who remain controlled by men in countries without sexual equality need a champion who they can identify with.

So I think this was a sound move by the UN to reject an exclusively western property who is tied to a large commercial enterprise (Warner, et.al.) Likely Warner would have used the UN endorsement to promote her upcoming movie and action figure sales.

And while I agree that the UN does often look silly in western (especially American) eyes, I've lived long enough in countries without a strong history of female empowerment to know that things look very differently from their perspective. The UN's role is not to serve the rich, developed countries, but to help develop the poorer, struggling ones. That development comes in many small steps.

Which is why I strongly support the UN. Most of the time anyway. And on this issue, absolutely.

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15 Dec 2016 22:04 #51748 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
It must be nice to just keep harping on complaints we can all agree are a little silly while ignoring the ones that are fiercely damning...

'Cause really, I'm sure it's coincidence that a character that's been around for 75 years would get pushed forward for this at the exact same time as DC executives were looking for ways to pimp their next blockbuster. Pure chance I say!

Come on. It was a bad idea, and it should never have gotten to the point where it needed to be retracted in the first place.

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15 Dec 2016 22:26 #51749 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

AuGoose wrote: It must be nice to just keep harping on complaints we can all agree are a little silly while ignoring the ones that are fiercely damning...

'Cause really, I'm sure it's coincidence that a character that's been around for 75 years would get pushed forward for this at the exact same time as DC executives were looking for ways to pimp their next blockbuster. Pure chance I say!

Come on. It was a bad idea, and it should never have gotten to the point where it needed to be retracted in the first place.


Did I say anywhere that it was a good idea?

I said it was a silly idea to both make her an ambassador in the first place but then remove her after a few people complain. I mean, didn't anyone think this through before making the decision? Again, what kind of dolts are running the UN?

You are the only one I've seen who has ever brought up the WB angle. A corporation using their properties to make money? No way!!! Perish the thought!!! I'm sure a reputable studio like Disney would never, ever think about doing that:

- Winnie the Pooh became the Ambassador of Friendship in 1998
- Tinkerbell was named Ambassador of Green in 2009

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15 Dec 2016 23:48 - 15 Dec 2016 23:57 #51750 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Which sets exactly the standard I'm commenting on: both of them are characters in the public domain (at least in sane countries). Disney doesn't OWN either of those characters - even in the US where public domain laws are under ceaseless attack, Disney licenses Pooh while the original stories are public domain.

Mistakes were made. Undoing those mistakes is the correct course of action. Not sitting there and shrugging while sighing, "well, we got suckered. Guess that's that from now to forever."
Last edit: 15 Dec 2016 23:57 by AuGoose.

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16 Dec 2016 14:58 - 16 Dec 2016 15:02 #51755 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

AuGoose wrote: Which sets exactly the standard I'm commenting on: both of them are characters in the public domain (at least in sane countries). Disney doesn't OWN either of those characters - even in the US where public domain laws are under ceaseless attack, Disney licenses Pooh while the original stories are public domain.

Mistakes were made. Undoing those mistakes is the correct course of action. Not sitting there and shrugging while sighing, "well, we got suckered. Guess that's that from now to forever."


Ha ha! Then what about this guy:

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I'm pretty sure he's not in the public domain although the company who owns them seems to have only haphazardly defended their copyright.
Last edit: 16 Dec 2016 15:02 by jdrock24.
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16 Dec 2016 17:10 #51763 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
Fair 'nough. Evidently they have more of a sense of humor at the UN than I had given them credit for :). Either that or "green" just doesn't have 45,000 outraged signatures to give ;).

So sure, lets go with she's just incredibly inappropriate, not for her looks per se, but because what ($*&ing lesson are you supposed to take away from "a woman that can ignore gunfire and toss tanks one handed is quite miraculously not being oppressed?" No shit. She's got more physical power than the assholes with a physical power advantage who are beating you to a pulp three times a week. How inspiring. What exactly are we shooting for here? Little girls in Africa with a loop of cord on their hip twirling around imaging themselves like their idol right before being hauled off by the bad men to be sold into a life of sexual slavery? Sorry. Real problem. Maybe the fantasy does keep them pseudo-sane, but I really want to think we can do better than a character who doesn't interact with the real problems at all, by essentially being more male than the males.

What's depressing is apparently they couldn't find a REAL women to serve as a symbol of hope and inspiration that we occasionally manage to rise above the basic power calculus that men are by and large stronger and more willing to resort to violence and will cheerfully use those tools to dominate the people around them, male or female.

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16 Dec 2016 18:04 #51765 by TwiceOnThursdays
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AuGoose wrote: Which sets exactly the standard I'm commenting on: both of them are characters in the public domain (at least in sane countries). Disney doesn't OWN either of those characters - even in the US where public domain laws are under ceaseless attack, Disney licenses Pooh while the original stories are public domain.

Mistakes were made. Undoing those mistakes is the correct course of action. Not sitting there and shrugging while sighing, "well, we got suckered. Guess that's that from now to forever."


I don't really care anything about this issue. But, I can't let factual issues just go away (plus someone said "Winnie the Pooh".) What you said is generally true about Peter Pan, but I'm cynical so I suspected you were wrong about it why the UN used Tinkerbell, and Pooh is ... complicated. But Pooh IS NOT public domain (even in most "sane countries").

Disney owns Pooh, they bought him for $350 Million in 2001, and they will own him until the Life+70* copyright duration ends in 2026 (Milne died in 1956). (US, UK, EU, etc). This excludes the rights to re-publish the original books, but NEW works, all that goes through Disney. ( IIRC there was a lawsuit on the Christopher Robin Milne derived rights that was settled in disney's favor a few years back. Though reading about the real Christopher Robin always makes me cry because he was never happy about the Pooh books.)

You can read this technically as "licensing pooh until 2026" but the practical effect is that Disney owns Winnie the Pooh and all uses of the character (* original books caveat). Though to be fair, this wasn't true at the time he was nominated for UN Ambassador in 1998... though I suspect you'll find some alignment with "UN picks Winnie the Pooh as UN Friendship Ambassador in 1998" and "The Garrick Club sold Disney the rights to all of A.A. Milne's characters in 1998". Why? Because I'm cynical.

(* Even Publication Date + 95 years leaves Pooh copyrighted until 2021, since the first pooh book came out in 1926. Pooh should be old enough to not get Life+70 in the US, but it's always talked about that way, and copyright law is ... idiotic, so i'm just punting and assuming Life+70 Holds for Pooh)

www.lavasurfer.com/pooh-faq10.html (#90)
www.nytimes.com/2001/03/05/business/medi...winnie-the-pooh.html

So, at the time, you are right that (at the time) Disney licensed Pooh, but they still owned part of the rights. In practice, if you were going to try to use Pooh in something, you'd find it impossible w/o Disney's approval, even in 1998. And the original books are NOT in the public domain and are STILL not in the public domain even though they FEEL like they should be.

(As a side note, my handle is a reference to a quote from Winnie the Pooh.)

Tinkerbell OTH ... It wasn't the UN using "Tinkerbell" the generic character from Peter Pan (special copyright in the UK), it was _Disney's_ interpretation of Tinkerbell (covered by protections) and it was done to promote a movie.

Here's what the UN had to say:

www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=32706#.WFQZYWWyhCt

The United Nations today named the Disney animated character Tinker Bell an “Honorary Ambassador of Green .... The announcement came just prior to a screening at UN Headquarters in New York of the world premiere of the Walt Disney animated film, “Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure.


I am being pedantic again ...
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16 Dec 2016 21:37 #51769 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion
All good. I don't mind getting info that helps me refine my understanding of the process. The Angry birds thing really was eye opening that the UN likes to play games with popular culture more than I would have guessed. They like to feel hip and trendy too, apparently :D.

I still think the movie tie-in was a bit on the egregious side. Maybe some folks at the UN got a sneak peak and went "ah, hell no. We're not being associated with that." :P. Fight, stab, and muscling your way through a conflict might not be the message they wanted to send.

Or it could be straight up what they say without any obfuscation. Those aren't bad reasons, you know.

Conversely at this end of the process we have a nest of comic geeks who saw their beloved medium get some recognition, and then have the recognition taken away. Of course there's gonna be some butt hurt. But fact remains escapist fantasy and occasionally outright masturbatory power fantasy probably isn't the well to dip your bucket in when trying to reach out to people about the horrors of being powerless. There's a big difference between "when you're lonely, be friendly like Whiney the Pooh" and "when your being abused, ask yourself what Wonder Woman would do." That difference being any relevance whatsoever.

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16 Dec 2016 21:59 #51770 by Markiehoe
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I wonder what the reaction would have been if they gave Superman an Honorary title?

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16 Dec 2016 22:13 #51771 by TwiceOnThursdays
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AuGoose wrote:
Conversely at this end of the process we have a nest of comic geeks who saw their beloved medium get some recognition, and then have the recognition taken away. Of course there's gonna be some butt hurt. But fact remains escapist fantasy and occasionally outright masturbatory power fantasy probably isn't the well to dip your bucket in when trying to reach out to people about the horrors of being powerless. There's a big difference between "when you're lonely, be friendly like Whiney the Pooh" and "when your being abused, ask yourself what Wonder Woman would do." That difference being any relevance whatsoever.


I have to agree here. World of difference between choosing Winnie the Pooh for Freindship ambassador and Wonder Woman. It's pretty much why I think the initial gesture was nice, but don't worry too much about it being removed. It was nice to draw the spot light to important issues for a bit, even if most of it was talking a bout Wonder Woman.

I think all groups of humans can get touchy about things, but it does seem like Geeks get especially entitled sometimes. (I am not excepting me from this either.)

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16 Dec 2016 23:14 #51772 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Wonder Woman to become UN women's champion

Markiehoe wrote: I wonder what the reaction would have been if they gave Superman an Honorary title?


I'm sure it would have a lot to do with what the title was for :). It's hard to find ANY character in literature anywhere who is more removed from the human condition. "Ambassador for the restrained and responsible use of power" Great. A guy that could conquer the planet in an afternoon and doesn't has got some legs. "Ambassador for standing up to bullies" should get laughed out of the room.
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