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Topic locked....wtf?

21 Jan 2017 02:03 #52178 by d_k_c
Topic locked....wtf? was created by d_k_c
I was reading an interesting discussion and it became locked for God knows what Liberal reason.

So new discussion....DKC dies....has stories on a different site. But people want to read them here...what do we do?

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21 Jan 2017 02:31 #52179 by SCOTT R
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DKC WILL NEVER DIE
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21 Jan 2017 02:37 #52180 by fats
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if you have read my reply to the locked topic you will understand why i locked it.

On the matter of when you die and what happens to your stories.

You will need to decide how your stories are used, you can decide to make your stories public domain and allow a free for all, you can ask for a web site be created to house all your stories, you can ask that your stories be hosted at a site like SWM, the main thing that you need to do and this goes for all content creators is to set up clear instructions in your will, remember that your content is a saleable asset and should be treated as such.

Hope this helps

Fats

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21 Jan 2017 03:52 #52182 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Topic locked....wtf?
Going to have to say, that no where in my will, nor anyone in my personal life will ever know I wrote these stories. I like to consider them, practice for when I write other stories. Suffice to say, I need more practice. :)

That being said, let's be honest, these are non profit - it's not as if people could make a red cent by hijacking anyone's story here.

And if I remember correctly AK's last days were marked by him hijacking someone else's story.

Karmas a bitch
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21 Jan 2017 09:51 #52187 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Topic locked....wtf?

d_k_c wrote: Going to have to say, that no where in my will, nor anyone in my personal life will ever know I wrote these stories. I like to consider them, practice for when I write other stories. Suffice to say, I need more practice. :)

That being said, let's be honest, these are non profit - it's not as if people could make a red cent by hijacking anyone's story here.

And if I remember correctly AK's last days were marked by him hijacking someone else's story.

Karmas a bitch


It was actually one of my stories he hijacked there at the end, tweaking it in small ways and posting as his own work. But until you wrote this, I'd forgotten all about that.

I've always given anyone who asked permission to extend or modify my AU stories for their own purposes, use my characters, etc. as long as they didn't charge for access to them. I want my material to always be free for anyone to read, but that doesn't mean giving up all control.

My only hard rules were to ask permission first (which I always gave) and then give me credit for the original story in the derivative work. Unfortunately, AK simply made some cosmetic tweaks to my story and posted it as his own. Which was not only very uncool, but was also very much out of character for him. He'd always been such a gentleman. So much so that at the time I wondered if it was really an imposter who did it.

But now that you remind me of this, I wonder if my (and others) less than happy response at the time might have something to do with his disappearance from the web. Or his imposter's.

It also brings up the point of how to manage any of this after I'm either no longer paying attention or dead. Brantley and his Bright Empire site is covered, but no one else is, including SWM.

Something to think about as I'm close to releasing a new story that will establish a new playground (story space, characters, etc) based on AU concepts and lore. A playground I'll play in for a while. I still have story lines in my head that involve Velorians, Arion and the Terrans they live among and with.

This started as a fairly rough AU side-story, written as an homage to a long-ago and mostly forgotten AU contributor (Mike), that Brantley dredged out of the archives. It has re-energized my writing in a way that nothing else has.

I've rewritten it and expanded it and plan to use it as a clean (no baggage) springboard to writing some fun new stories. Initially written about 13 years ago with characters inspired by real people in my life at the time (just before I retired early from the workplace) but with the usual creative changes to protect both the innocent and the guilty.

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21 Jan 2017 11:37 #52188 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Topic locked....wtf?

shadar wrote:

d_k_c wrote: Going to have to say, that no where in my will, nor anyone in my personal life will ever know I wrote these stories. I like to consider them, practice for when I write other stories. Suffice to say, I need more practice. :)

That being said, let's be honest, these are non profit - it's not as if people could make a red cent by hijacking anyone's story here.

And if I remember correctly AK's last days were marked by him hijacking someone else's story.

Karmas a bitch


It was actually one of my stories he hijacked there at the end, tweaking it in small ways and posting as his own work. But until you wrote this, I'd forgotten all about that.

I've always given anyone who asked permission to extend or modify my AU stories for their own purposes, use my characters, etc. as long as they didn't charge for access to them. I want my material to always be free for anyone to read, but that doesn't mean giving up all control.

My only hard rules were to ask permission first (which I always gave) and then give me credit for the original story in the derivative work. Unfortunately, AK simply made some cosmetic tweaks to my story and posted it as his own. Which was not only very uncool, but was also very much out of character for him. He'd always been such a gentleman. So much so that at the time I wondered if it was really an imposter who did it.

But now that you remind me of this, I wonder if my (and others) less than happy response at the time might have something to do with his disappearance from the web. Or his imposter's.

It also brings up the point of how to manage any of this after I'm either no longer paying attention or dead. Brantley and his Bright Empire site is covered, but no one else is, including SWM.

Something to think about as I'm close to releasing a new story that will establish a new playground (story space, characters, etc) based on AU concepts and lore. A playground I'll play in for a while. I still have story lines in my head that involve Velorians, Arion and the Terrans they live among and with.

This started as a fairly rough AU side-story, written as an homage to a long-ago and mostly forgotten AU contributor (Mike), that Brantley dredged out of the archives. It has re-energized my writing in a way that nothing else has.

I've rewritten it and expanded it and plan to use it as a clean (no baggage) springboard to writing some fun new stories. Initially written about 13 years ago with characters inspired by real people in my life at the time (just before I retired early from the workplace) but with the usual creative changes to protect both the innocent and the guilty.


If memory serves, I thought his last incident involved a Star Trek paperback novel that he lifted almost whole paragraphs verbatim that someone called him out on but I might be mistaken.

As for when you die, DKC, I'm not sure what will happen to your stories, but when I die, I wanna be buried with a copy of The Project! :P

ElF
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21 Jan 2017 12:31 #52189 by 7bf
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while there isn't any textual content of mine out there, i released my share of open source software to the public. These problems are nothing new and solutions do exists.

creativecommons.org/share-your-work/ for example provides various options to choose from. Maybe the story upload dialog should be extended to provide a choice?
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21 Jan 2017 14:00 #52190 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Topic locked....wtf?

d_k_c wrote: I was reading an interesting discussion and it became locked for God knows what Liberal reason.

So new discussion....DKC dies....has stories on a different site. But people want to read them here...what do we do?


That's why I insisted, during the reseed to have the most complete coverage of any possible author and I when the extra mile to contact some of them to get some old material resposted here. Unfortunately some people were not so easy to contact and this forced us to play in a very gray area.

The general assumptions I worked with where:
  • An author retains all the rights over his/hers stories, including publishing/unpublishing here or on any other site
  • Unless there is any specific instruction any ongoing decision will stay
  • If a story was hosted on SWM or SGInc at any point and the author didn't leave any specific instruction it's fair game to reupload it.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

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21 Jan 2017 15:35 #52192 by inactive
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Like it or not, current law is tilted heavily towards protecting the rights of copyright holders (be they creators, corporations, or heirs). "Fair Use" gives some leeway, but certainly doesn't come in to play when posting (essentially publishing) entire stories.

It's tempting to play fast and loose with "amateur" works where nobody is making any money, but all it takes is one asshole (and the world is full of them) to cause a shit show.

It's not fair to put the onus of "preserving" old or lost stories on the people who run SWM. If a creator truly wants their work to spread as far as possible, even after death, then it's up to them to make those intentions clear and explicitly waive some or all of their rights over their work. As 7bf mentioned, Creative Commons gives creators the tools to do that.

Some sites have the different license variations built in as options when work is uploaded, to make this easier and to put the issue in front of authors, who often never consider it.

- GeekSeven
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21 Jan 2017 17:38 - 21 Jan 2017 17:40 #52193 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Topic locked....wtf?
My feeling is - you do have an obligation to ask. However, if you receive no reply and there are no explicit copyright warnings, then post it (Obviously not under your own name)

If you're asked to take it down, then take it down.

But maybe I just don't take my work that seriously, and perhaps others do....I don't know.

Oh and yeah Shadar, it was one of your stories and it was for a work shop....Maybe 10 years ago?....very strange circumstances
Last edit: 21 Jan 2017 17:40 by d_k_c.

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21 Jan 2017 20:31 #52195 by ace191
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A long time ago Argo and I spent a lot of money on TGK artwork for TSOS. We owned it, and we gave Lfan and the then moderator of SWM full permission to use the artwork with the story. I am no lawyer, but TSOS was Argo's idea and he was the main author and editor of the Saga so I would guess that he would be the intellectual property owner (although DC Comics might not agree). Anything that I post at SWM can be used forever as far as I am concerned.
I see the artwork all over the net and frequently it is credited to SWM which really makes me happy because it is great advertising for the site.
For a variety of reasons I completely agree with fats on not hosting material that
Has not been posted here by the author as the risk reward ratio is just not there, and it is the ethical thing to do. Just my 2 cents.
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22 Jan 2017 01:33 #52199 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Topic locked....wtf?

d_k_c wrote:
Oh and yeah Shadar, it was one of your stories and it was for a work shop....Maybe 10 years ago?....very strange circumstances


Glad my faulty memory wasn't playing tricks on me. Funny that I forgot about that incident until was mentioned. I don't hold grudges. We all screw up sometimes.

I would love to see AK involved again.
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22 Jan 2017 16:30 #52205 by ace191
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Still thinking about this. I knew what Woodclaw was doing at the time he rounded up several old stories from authors on this site. I thought it was a brilliant move on his part.
There are authors like Marknew742 who post all over the net. New Supergirl stories usually come here (along with workshop entries) but FMG tales would go to Brawna. Now, they seem to go to DA. He has also started a new interactive tale at writing.com "The Mischievous Ring." He has a huge archive at DTV. I think it would be very wrong for SWM to go out and grab those stories without his permission.
I would strongly suggest that SWM continue the policy of keeping stories that have been posted here until the author or their agent requests their removal. If there are stories out their that you would like to see posted here, contact the librarian with the author's contact info if you have them at let our "official" representative make the contact.
I always like to come up with new ideas especially if I don't have to do the work to implement them! How about if we created a new section that was ordered by author that pointed to other sites on the web where works by that author could be found? I would even volunteer to provide the links for Marknew and Maknew742.
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22 Jan 2017 18:52 #52211 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Topic locked....wtf?

ace191 wrote: Still thinking about this. I knew what Woodclaw was doing at the time he rounded up several old stories from authors on this site. I thought it was a brilliant move on his part.
There are authors like Marknew742 who post all over the net. New Supergirl stories usually come here (along with workshop entries) but FMG tales would go to Brawna. Now, they seem to go to DA. He has also started a new interactive tale at writing.com "The Mischievous Ring." He has a huge archive at DTV. I think it would be very wrong for SWM to go out and grab those stories without his permission.
I would strongly suggest that SWM continue the policy of keeping stories that have been posted here until the author or their agent requests their removal. If there are stories out their that you would like to see posted here, contact the librarian with the author's contact info if you have them at let our "official" representative make the contact.
I always like to come up with new ideas especially if I don't have to do the work to implement them! How about if we created a new section that was ordered by author that pointed to other sites on the web where works by that author could be found? I would even volunteer to provide the links for Marknew and Maknew742.


This pretty much summed up my strategy while reseeding the Library: having the most complete corpus of each given author, provided I was able to reach him or her and secure permission to republish those stories. Otherwise I limited myself to stories that were already part of the SGInc/SWM archive.

The idea of having links to other archives is actually pretty good and I think we should look into it.

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22 Jan 2017 19:13 #52212 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Topic locked....wtf?
I went back and reviewed the copyright notices that I used to put on all AU stories, and updated it a bit for my new story series.

My copyright limitations have never exactly matched what we've discussed here, but this is my slightly tongue-in-cheek take on how at least my work should be handled. I think I covered all the bases.

SharonBest, Aurora UniverseĀ©, Copyright 1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000. Shadar, 2017.

The Fine Print

The acts of violence and passion that are described in these stories are only fantasies and would be impossible for real living people to perform! These stories are strictly for the private non-commercial enjoyment of the authors and those who share an interest in this genre.

While the names of some of the characters in these stories may be similar to ones used by mainstream publishers, my actual characters diverge significantly from any characters of the same names depicted by any other publisher or author. Their abilities, their origins and the explicit nature of their actions are all unique to these stories.

Any resemblance between any character in these stories and real people is also unintentional. This story is a work of fan-fiction if it involves trademarked or copyrighted characters from other publishers but is otherwise an original work by the author(s) listed.

License is granted to freely copy, distribute or archive this story in its original form as long you give the original author(s) credit and that you leave this notice in place on all copies. I explicitly DO NOT grant the right to use this work for any commercial purposes whatsoever. I'm not making any money on this, so you shouldn't either!

It is my goal that these stories, along with my Web page and its contents, will forever be free for reading by anyone of appropriate age, anywhere in the Sol system.

(However, permission may be requested for use of this material in other star systems by contacting the author and describing the place and purpose for such use.)

This story is strictly for us 'grupsā€™. For those of us who love comic books and Science Fiction and their limitations and who dare to go where those individual genres could not or would not go. They belong to those of us who still have a fertile imagination, a love of fantasy, a sense of wonder, an appreciation for science and a love for All The Myriad Ways...
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23 Jan 2017 06:12 #52218 by SCOTT R
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Anywhere in the Sol system? HEY that means us!!! Thanks a ton Shadar!!!

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23 Jan 2017 06:58 #52219 by njae
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Hm, I find it a bit weird that we suddenly have a lot of intel about copyright, but in the original thread it was so readily ignored until fats talked to a lawyer about it.

New Deviantart, setup in progress
njae2.deviantart.com/

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23 Jan 2017 08:38 #52220 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Topic locked....wtf?

njae wrote: Hm, I find it a bit weird that we suddenly have a lot of intel about copyright, but in the original thread it was so readily ignored until fats talked to a lawyer about it.


It wasn't ignored by everyone. But lawyers are good for authoritatively cutting through the varying opinions and getting everyone on the same page. Copyright law isn't always intuitive.

But I'm glad it exists given the huge amount of time and energy it takes to complete a work of fiction. What the author should get for all that work (at the minimum) is control of the end product.

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