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Eleanor of Aquitaine

21 Oct 2017 20:20 #56690 by shadar
Eleanor of Aquitaine was created by shadar
The most modern woman in the middle ages?

Anyone know more about Eleanor? Sounds like she should have worn a cape.

I found this quote below:

"Much of what we know, or think we know, about Eleanor of Aquitaine is legend—but what a legend she is.

Arguably the most powerful heiress of the Middle Ages, who reigned as both queen of France and queen of England, Eleanor not only outlived all but two of her eleven children, she also fought in the Crusades — perhaps dressed as a bare-breasted Amazon warrior queen.

Years later, she probably poisoned her husband’s mistress.

In truth, for all her stature and longevity, Eleanor remains puzzling to historians. Tales of her beauty and power, though vague and often paradoxical, spread far. Sometimes meek, sometimes conniving, once a lady, once a harlot, Eleanor was, if not consistent, certainly complex. Shakespeare called her a “canker’d grandam” and a “monstrous injurer of heaven and earth.” But even that was a guess."

Shadar

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21 Oct 2017 21:36 #56691 by Agent00Soul
Replied by Agent00Soul on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine
She's played by Katharine Hepburn in the 1968 film, "The Lion In Winter."
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22 Oct 2017 03:36 #56693 by Raa
Replied by Raa on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine
Very Good movie. I was thinking about that movie while reading Shaddar post.

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22 Oct 2017 15:41 #56695 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine
I was pretty sure I already made a post about Eleanor of Aquitaine a few years back, but I can't find it. Still, while most of what we know about her is shourded in legend there are a number of hard facts that marks her as, quite possibly, the most dangerous woman of the middle ages.
First of all after being repudiated by the King of France on the ground that she failed to produce a male heir (she had already petitioned the Pope to grant the annulment of the marriage) managed to marry the King of England and carried 8 children more. For all intent and purpose not only she managed to marry the two most infiential monarchs of Europe, but she slandered the King of France in a way that none could object to. Also she was Duchess of Aquitane in her own right, which made her, for all intent and purposes, heir to the second most powerful household of the kingdom of France. Moreover, she is generally reputed to be most cunning political mind of her time and acted as regent while her second son Richard the Lionheart fought in the Third Crusade.

On her participation to the Second Crusade (which was pretty much a trainwreck thanks in no small part of Eleanor's first husband, King Louis VII of France) ... well, there are some issues. According to several posthomous sources the presence of Eleleanor and her ladies caused several issues among the French troops, including the fact that those noblemen who were vassals of the dukes of Aquitaine tended to follow her instructions rather than the kings' causing strife and confusion among the ranks.

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22 Oct 2017 18:48 #56698 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine

Woodclaw wrote: I was pretty sure I already made a post about Eleanor of Aquitaine a few years back, but I can't find it. Still, while most of what we know about her is shourded in legend there are a number of hard facts that marks her as, quite possibly, the most dangerous woman of the middle ages.
First of all after being repudiated by the King of France on the ground that she failed to produce a male heir (she had already petitioned the Pope to grant the annulment of the marriage) managed to marry the King of England and carried 8 children more. For all intent and purpose not only she managed to marry the two most infiential monarchs of Europe, but she slandered the King of France in a way that none could object to. Also she was Duchess of Aquitane in her own right, which made her, for all intent and purposes, heir to the second most powerful household of the kingdom of France. Moreover, she is generally reputed to be most cunning political mind of her time and acted as regent while her second son Richard the Lionheart fought in the Third Crusade.

On her participation to the Second Crusade (which was pretty much a trainwreck thanks in no small part of Eleanor's first husband, King Louis VII of France) ... well, there are some issues. According to several posthomous sources the presence of Eleleanor and her ladies caused several issues among the French troops, including the fact that those noblemen who were vassals of the dukes of Aquitaine tended to follow her instructions rather than the kings' causing strife and confusion among the ranks.


I liked the account (who knows how accurate) that she fought alongside the men as a bare-breasted Amazon. That would be distracting, probably as much to her own men versus the enemy.

Without a doubt, she won the genetic lottery, with beauty and physical power and intelligence, not to mention bearing all those children along the way.

Even by current standards, she sounds superhuman.

Would anyone conceive a character like her today, even in the wildest fiction? Married the two most powerful men of her time, regarded as the most beautiful woman of her day, had 8 ot 10 children, and then marched a thousand miles to fight in great battles with swords and bows and spears.

Such a fictional character would be implausible and unbelievable today, yet she lived that life and more.

I think our DNA has gotten watered down a bit. <grin>

Shadar
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22 Oct 2017 19:09 #56700 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine

shadar wrote: I liked the account (who knows how accurate) that she fought alongside the men as a bare-breasted Amazon. That would be distracting, probably as much to her own men versus the enemy.

Without a doubt, she won the genetic lottery, with beauty and physical power and intelligence, not to mention bearing all those children along the way.

Even by current standards, she sounds superhuman.

Would anyone conceive a character like her today, even in the wildest fiction? Married the two most powerful men of her time, regarded as the most beautiful woman of her day, had 8 ot 10 children, and then marched a thousand miles to fight in great battles with swords and bows and spears.

Such a fictional character would be implausible and unbelievable today, yet she lived that life and more.

I think our DNA has gotten watered down a bit. <grin>

Shadar


Well, if you want to find another lady that was way ahead of her time, look no further than Caterina Sforza , who pretty much kicked asses all way across reinassance Italy being an adept alchemist, a general in the defense of Forlì against Venice (she was regent for her son at the time) being so good at it that she was nicknamed "the Tiger" or "the Amazon of Forlì" and who scared the Borgia (yeah those Borgia) to the point that she was imprisoned under false pretenses in Rome by pope Alexander VI.

In her own words: "If I could write everything I did, I would shock the world."

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22 Oct 2017 23:01 #56701 by Dumano1r
Replied by Dumano1r on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine
I know England is littered with crosses dedicated to Eleanor, because of her success. Unfortunately, for me, I most associate her with the line in Disney's Robin Hood: "Mummy always liked Richard best (furious thumb sucking).

For me, as warrior queen's go, I prefer the classical image of Boudicca and the earthy violence of Matilda (who fought king Steven) or indeed, king Stephen's own wife, who is also (confusingly) called Matilda.

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28 Oct 2017 14:15 #56790 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine

Dumano1r wrote: I know England is littered with crosses dedicated to Eleanor, because of her success. Unfortunately, for me, I most associate her with the line in Disney's Robin Hood: "Mummy always liked Richard best (furious thumb sucking).


Well, the DVD special release of Robin Hood includes the storyboard for the original, much more darker, ending. In this version Prince John is just a moment away from stabbing a wounded Robin when King Richard appears and says something like: "Brother, for you've done I should have you banished forever ... but mummy will never forgive me if I do."


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30 Oct 2017 13:28 #56799 by Agent00Soul
Replied by Agent00Soul on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine
That was my favorite Disney movie as a kid, but it really screwed me up when I had my English history classes in college (John didn't attempt a coup while Richard was away: Richard actually spent at most six months in England as king, etc) and the Robin Hood stories (where was Will Scarlett?).

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30 Oct 2017 14:47 #56800 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Eleanor of Aquitaine

Agent00Soul wrote: That was my favorite Disney movie as a kid, but it really screwed me up when I had my English history classes in college (John didn't attempt a coup while Richard was away: Richard actually spent at most six months in England as king, etc) and the Robin Hood stories (where was Will Scarlett?).


Well, if I remember my history right John did attempt a rebellion in 1191, while his brother was away, although it could be argued it was more of an attempt to keep the crown out of the reach of William Longchamp, one of the three bishops that Richard appointed to rule in his stead, who was trying to seize the power for himself.
On the subject of Will Scarlett, I always assumed that the Disney rabbit boy was meant to be the stand-in for the character.

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