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Sexual harassment in comics/tv/movies (was "Kreisberg Suspended by WB")

11 Nov 2017 15:02 #56996 by kikass2014
kikass2014 created the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
screenrant.com/andrew-kreisberg-sexual-h...row-flash-supergirl/

Just posting this here as I thought it may be of interest to our group.

I'm making no judgement on the guy as, unlike the plethora of SJWs, I prefer to hear facts before I make a judgement.

Peace.

/K
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12 Nov 2017 05:50 - 12 Nov 2017 13:13 #57011 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
For those who haven't found it, the original Variety article contains a very long list of what is specifically being alleged, and Kreisberg's responses.

EDIT: I realise there's a temptation to speculate on the identity of some of the people mentioned. Let's not fall into the trap of assuming we know for certain who these people are (or indeed that the allegations as reported are accurate.) Be pragmatic!! Please remember, Kreisberg works across a number of CW shows, and other projects. The "high-level female producer" who complained about him to Berlanti Productions last year could be Ali Adler, but AK has worked with at least three other female producers on just the cape shows alone. Likewise the topless female actor who "[...] had a role in a premium cable network show [...]" could well be Melissa Benoist (particularly as my understanding is that producers largely concern themselves with series regular/recurring roles, directors cast episode guest roles), but there may be other actresses that fit the bill given the range of projects AK has worked on.


R5

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12 Nov 2017 12:01 - 12 Nov 2017 12:02 #57015 by Helstar
Helstar replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
"One male writer says that Kreisberg called him into his office to view footage of a woman who was coming in later that day to audition. In the video, the woman was topless. My mind went blank. I don’t know what I said,” says the writer, who notes that Kreisberg was grinning. “But my internal reaction was, ‘Why would you show me this — it’s wildly inappropriate!’ I could not get out of there fast enough. Kreisberg says that “in doing research on the internet about a prospective actress, we found that she had a role in a premium cable network show. It was not a X-rated show. We clicked on the video and she was topless.”

I think we know who are they talking about.
Last Edit: 12 Nov 2017 12:02 by Helstar.
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12 Nov 2017 13:05 - 12 Nov 2017 13:08 #57016 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
Yeah I think its a safe bet we know who that person was.

screenrant.com/dc-comics-suspends-eddie-...assault-allegations/

Another story breaks.

The problem I see with this, with regards to Kriesberg, and others like Takei and Whedon, is that this could so easily be abused.

I'm not saying these guys are innocent OR guilty (as opposed to Weinstein and Louis CK, who have admitted it), but no FORMAL accusations have been made. No arrests. No trials have taken place. The best case scenario is an "investigation" has begun.

And yet in the mind of the mass public, they are all GUILTY.

This sets a dangerous precedence imo.

Every disgruntled employee, actor, whatever, can now get revenge simply by saying "X molested me".

The fact, in Takei's case, the event took place 30+ YEARS AGO, is simply dismissed. How on earth can anyone remember what happened 30 years ago? I cant remember 30 days ago!!

Just my thoughts tbh.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 12 Nov 2017 13:08 by kikass2014.
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12 Nov 2017 15:00 - 13 Nov 2017 01:26 #57021 by Helstar
Helstar replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
When there are too many people pointing their fingers, it's really difficult to presume the person in question is innocent.
But I understand what you mean, for example here in Italy we have recently had a similar situation, but accusations came from only ONE woman (Trevisan vs Tornatore, winner of the Oscar prize for "Nuovo Cinema Paradiso"). Nobody believed her plus a ton of italian actresses (including Monica Bellucci) have defended the director.
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2017 01:26 by Helstar.
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12 Nov 2017 15:59 #57022 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
That topless actress could also be Violet Beans aka Jesse Quick. She appeared nude on HBOs The Leftovers.
With some many people coming forward and pretty much saying the same things about Kriesberg, it looks very likely he may be guilty of some kind IG wrongdoing.

What I want too know is, if all of this did happen, where the hell were Berlantu and hide second bin command Sarah Schechter? I find it hard to believe they had know knowledge of what was happening. The cover up could be just as bad as the crime.
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12 Nov 2017 17:53 #57026 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
If all of this happened then I'm glad he's gone. That being said, it worries me greatly that innocent until proven guilty seems to be right before our eyes being tossed out the window. It also bothers me alot that nobody reported any of these myriad of allegations against actors over the last many decades. Had these people had the guts to speak out then instead of playing the victim now that it's fashionable, then maybe they could have prevented this. Yes, it's hard to come forward. I'm sure it's hard to testify against the mob too, but that would take real courage wouldn't it?
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12 Nov 2017 19:23 - 12 Nov 2017 19:25 #57028 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

andyf wrote: That topless actress could also be Violet Beans aka Jesse Quick. She appeared nude on HBOs The Leftovers.
With some many people coming forward and pretty much saying the same things about Kriesberg, it looks very likely he may be guilty of some kind IG wrongdoing.

What I want too know is, if all of this did happen, where the hell were Berlantu and hide second bin command Sarah Schechter? I find it hard to believe they had know knowledge of what was happening. The cover up could be just as bad as the crime.


This is nothing new. Its been going on forever, but in the past, anyone speaking up was blacklisted or otherwise deprived of their ability to work. The power was with the men at the top.

Now we're seeing that shift.

God knows this kind of abuse of privilege permeated the upper levels of most businesses. I saw a ton of it at the senior exec level in the high tech industry, although it wasn't talked about. HR made problems go away. They ran the cover-ups. That was their job. Saw it over and over.

For a while, I reported directly to a CEO who chased skirts day and night, and he kept HR very busy paying people off. And even HR wasn't beyond abuse. I remember one time, when we were having a crisis and the executive staff was all slated to meet the entire weekend on a technical/mfg issue, our HR VP, who was an attractive woman, asked if she needed to attend the weekend meetings. This was in a crowded room of execs. The CEO said "Honey, as long as you wear those short skirts, you can come to any meeting of mine."

I followed her to her office to talk through it. I'd never seen anyone so mad, but she didn't say a word outside that room or to anyone else. She just kept covering the CEO's ass. That was the only way to stay employed. Men had all the power. Many of us were complicit. It's just the way things were.

That said, there have been big improvements in most industries over the last twenty years. Companies started training people to avoid sexual abuse in the late 80's, although it often didn't affect the men at the very top.

But Hollywood remained the ultimate target-rich environment for abuse given the hoards of wannabe actors who descend on the industry and fight to get ahead. The casting couch was part of the culture. Men have taken advantage of that forever. Women have played along given they had no choice other than to exit the business.

So part of me is really glad to see the tables finally turn on Hollywood as everything blows up. This feels like a boulder rolling down a hill. It's going to gather steam and eventually flatten everyone who was involved, and it's going to be a lot of folks. And the change is all driven by women.

When its over, the industry will be a different place, run by different people. Feels like progress to me.
Last Edit: 12 Nov 2017 19:25 by shadar.
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12 Nov 2017 22:14 #57033 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
I, too, worked at a tech company in Cal and saw much of what you posted was implied to have happened where I worked Shadar. I also watched quite a few of the women work this to their advantage. It was actually harder to find people who weren't sleeping around rather than those who were and it takes 2 to tango.

This isn't to say I don't know what you're talking about. Had my direct report CFO tell me directly not to hire women (or smokers lol) so we wouldn't have to deal with pregnancy issues (or smoke breaks.) I did anyhow and he never really forgave me for it (but I was in good with the CEO so he couldn't do much directly.) Best employee I ever had.

All that being said, perhaps I'm in the wrong place to suggest this, but the answer isn't a pendulum swing to a matriarchy but to exert the rule of law. MANY of these women signed NDA's for their silence and got a check. I have zero respect for those that did. They willingly let a predator loose on the women who followed them for some cash and a career. That's not admirable nor something that should be accepted as such. They had a choice and they made a poor one.

Many of these same people gave Bill Clinton a pass and still do - again for their own self interest. There's nothing at all admirable about #Metoo unless they actually did something about it.
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13 Nov 2017 00:52 #57036 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

the answer isn't a pendulum swing to a matriarchy but to exert the rule of law....


Agree totally.

Peace.

/K
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13 Nov 2017 01:26 #57037 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

kikass2014 wrote:

the answer isn't a pendulum swing to a matriarchy but to exert the rule of law....


Agree totally.

Peace.

/K


That would be the best outcome, K. Always, the rule of law.

But I'm not sure where this is going. We're in new territory here with women speaking up left and right. I'm betting there's lots more to come and it will spread from Hollywood and politics to all kinds of places.

As to Starforge's comment, I also saw a lot of women playing the system for their own benefit. We used to keep score with the number of cute secretaries who suddenly upgraded their wheels from Honda Civics to high-end Lexus and Mercedes. There was open competition among my fellow execs for who could hire the cutest secretaries, who were often so "valuable" that they often traveled with their boss on trips. I always wound up with the competent ones who weren't beauty queens. I remember actually being hazed about my "old, ugly secretary" (who saved my ass a few times) by my boss and sometimes my peers. I was appalled by the games I saw and refused to play. Too much drama for my blood. (But not appalled enough to speak up or quit over it. I liked the money I was making and it was quite the spectacle at times.)

But the system that allowed this was rigged by powerful men for their own benefit. Those middle-aged men figured paying hush money after a few months of great sex with a stunning and willing young woman was worth it, especially given it wasn't their money. The company always paid it. They had the hush money hidden in the budget so it didn't look bad. NDA's flew left and right. Nobody seemed upset except HR, who had to keep paying and covering it up. But HR worked for top management, so they did what they were paid to do.

So I have no sympathy for the men who are now getting their comeuppance, nor do I have any respect for the women who took advantage of the system. But the blame always SHOULD fall to the person in power, and that was always the men.

It remains to be seen if women will behave the same when they have the power. I rather doubt it. To a lot of male execs, this was nothing more than a perk. A male power fantasy thing.

Shadar
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13 Nov 2017 01:58 #57039 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
One thing business taught me Shadar is that human beings are selfish. Women may approach this in a different manner, but the motivation is the same. Never had a secretary - there was exactly one at HQ (she was gorgeous and that's a story) because the CEO didn't believe in them. He only had that one because it was expected when entertaining Intel and such. Write your own damn letters - that's what you get your pay and stock for :p. Don't like it - go elsewhere. Nobody did. Many offices worldwide and with the exception of asia, I don't remember too many.

You couldn't be more right about HR - it's only job is to protect the company. Certainly not the employees save where the 2 overlapped. I have no sympathy for the men who did this either. Women need to be encouraged to speak out WHEN it happens so that prosecution can happen. Waiting 30 years to accuse someone is wrong. Maybe Sulu and Richard Dreyfuss did what they were accused of or maybe not but after 30 years anyone can say anything with no proof offered and a reputation ruined.

How many people are going to assume that George did what he was accused of simply because he's gay especially on the heels of Spacey's coming out party. Statute of limitations exist for a reason and a woman is no less capable of lying than a man.

Want sympathy in the current environment - accuse someone who made a pass at you 30 years ago. They probably won't even remember the details. Hell, I was married for 15 years and I can't tell you the daily details, lol.
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13 Nov 2017 02:50 #57042 by TwiceOnThursdays
TwiceOnThursdays replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
Golly.

There are LOT of people in this thread getting political .... and they seem to be the same people complaining about it on Supergirl.

I find this a bit ironic.
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13 Nov 2017 04:17 - 13 Nov 2017 04:22 #57043 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: Golly.

There are LOT of people in this thread getting political .... and they seem to be the same people complaining about it on Supergirl.

I find this a bit ironic.


And both are choices. One can choose to participate in a forum on a subject they may be interested in. One can also choose to not watch a show that panders to SJW's. I would argue that if the politics in particular threads offend, then the appropriate response is to not participate just as the appropriate response for shows that engage in such is not to watch.

Edited snippy comment. No call for it - we're all just people here.
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2017 04:22 by Starforge.
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13 Nov 2017 04:28 #57044 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: Golly.

There are LOT of people in this thread getting political .... and they seem to be the same people complaining about it on Supergirl.

I find this a bit ironic.


I didn't think any of this particular thread was political. Must have missed that part.

Shadar
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13 Nov 2017 05:18 #57045 by andyf
andyf replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh and Emily Bett Rickards have commented about this on their Twitter and Instagram pages. Based on their comments,they're all but saying Kreisbergs guilty as hell.
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13 Nov 2017 10:34 - 13 Nov 2017 10:34 #57048 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh and Emily Bett Rickards have commented about this on their Twitter and Instagram pages. Based on their comments,they're all but saying Kreisbergs guilty as hell.


I think that is really the crux of the disccusion here.

You can't convict someone on twitter comments, Instagram comments, just because you say so.

You need evidence, and a trial.

But lately, that seems to be going out the window, and THAT is getting into dangerous territory imo.

INNOCENT until proven guilty was, is and always should be the foundation. - regardless of the crime.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2017 10:34 by kikass2014.
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13 Nov 2017 11:49 #57050 by five_red
five_red replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

Supergirl Pre-Crisis Chronology: www.superwomenmania.com/supergirltl/
Supergirl: the Life and Times of Kara Zor-El: maidofmight.wordpress.com/
DeviantArt: 5red.deviantart.com/
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13 Nov 2017 12:42 #57051 by AuGoose
AuGoose replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB

kikass2014 wrote: INNOCENT until proven guilty was, is and always should be the foundation. - regardless of the crime.


Which is a lovely cotton-candy ideal that essentially everyone involved knows has long since been replaced with "innocent until you fail to cover it up through the abuse of power." Examples are going to be made. Extreme ones on occasion. Because the real power of the system is deterrence through fear of consequences, and there's been precious little fear OR consequences for those systemically abusing their power.
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13 Nov 2017 12:50 #57052 by Woodclaw
Woodclaw replied the topic: Kreisberg Suspended by WB
Guys, while this discussion might not be strictly political it has the potential to go that way very quickly. Politics and social issues are very deeply interconnected and it's way to easy to pin certain behaviours to one political party or the other, not to mention specific ethnic or social groups. While I know very well that there are context that makes these behaviours way too easy (heck, for all I know some of us might have been at the receiving end of them), we are playing on very thin ice here.

Also one very personal note that might derail this thread: today the definition Social Justice Warrior is used as a derogatory term to define any attempt to push forward any kind of progressive value through a media (social or traditional). I understand that the entire point is that a SJW does what he/she does because he's looking for personal validation and not a real conviction, but it has become sort of a cheap shot way to label any attempt to present any kind of real world issue through any form of media. I'm not going to defend some of the most ham-fisted attempts to do so, but it has become an easy trump card to silence any person trying to voice an opinion.
I would like to ask you all to think very carefully before using that label.

Thanks

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
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