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Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

07 Jan 2014 00:41 #34981 by lfan
Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.

More interesting is the speculation that the movie is deviating from her mythological origins and now somehow tying the Amazons to somehow be linked to Kryptonians. This is interesting to say the least as 1) it completely deviates from the traditional comic myths but now maybe clears some origin roadblocks that "make her so hrd to write". 2) lays some hints that WW will be on some kind of par with Superman power-wise

Here is the link:
spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/01/0...-wonder-womans-role/

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07 Jan 2014 01:21 - 07 Jan 2014 01:22 #34983 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Shear speculation based on no facts in evidence.
Last edit: 07 Jan 2014 01:22 by Markiehoe.

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07 Jan 2014 01:27 - 07 Jan 2014 01:28 #34984 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

lfan wrote: Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.


Elf


So two questions:

A )So its a pretty small part in a very crowded movie with a cool fight scene at the end, but not a lot of actual characterization?

B ) Where i can i rent this Black Widdow movie? it logically stars the most marketable female actress around, so probabbly its good.
Last edit: 07 Jan 2014 01:28 by castor.

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07 Jan 2014 01:54 #34986 by Jabbrwock
Replied by Jabbrwock on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

castor wrote:

lfan wrote: Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.


Elf


So two questions:

A )So its a pretty small part in a very crowded movie with a cool fight scene at the end, but not a lot of actual characterization?

B ) Where i can i rent this Black Widdow movie? it logically stars the most marketable female actress around, so probabbly its good.


I think a better question is why does one of DC's most recognized and marketable characters over the course of decades need the same movie treatment as a Marvel character only known to serious comic book fans before the last couple of Marvel movies?

I hold out no hope for Wonder Woman in Man of Steel 2, because it's becoming incredibly clear that the powers that be at the studio are looking as hard as they can for an excuse to bury the character beyond hope of any further appearances in movies for at least a decade or two. I wouldn't have thought that executives at that level would let misogyny override greed, but it seems I guessed wrong.
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07 Jan 2014 03:09 #34988 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

Markiehoe wrote: Shear speculation based on no facts in evidence.


That's why I used the word "Rumor" :P

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07 Jan 2014 03:12 - 07 Jan 2014 14:40 #34989 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

castor wrote:

lfan wrote: Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.


Elf


So two questions:

A )So its a pretty small part in a very crowded movie with a cool fight scene at the end, but not a lot of actual characterization?


B ) Where i can i rent this Black Widdow movie? it logically stars the most marketable female actress around, so probabbly its good.



A. I dunno, I haven't seen it yet
B. ONE of the most marketable actress perhaps.....portraying a character that probably 90% of the movie-watching world never heard of before the Avengers movies came out. As for Scarlett, you can see her with superpowers in August 2014 when "Lucy" is set to come out.
Last edit: 07 Jan 2014 14:40 by lfan.

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07 Jan 2014 03:17 #34990 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

Jabbrwock wrote:

castor wrote:

lfan wrote: Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.


Elf


So two questions:

A )So its a pretty small part in a very crowded movie with a cool fight scene at the end, but not a lot of actual characterization?

B ) Where i can i rent this Black Widdow movie? it logically stars the most marketable female actress around, so probabbly its good.


I think a better question is why does one of DC's most recognized and marketable characters over the course of decades need the same movie treatment as a Marvel character only known to serious comic book fans before the last couple of Marvel movies?

I hold out no hope for Wonder Woman in Man of Steel 2, because it's becoming incredibly clear that the powers that be at the studio are looking as hard as they can for an excuse to bury the character beyond hope of any further appearances in movies for at least a decade or two. I wouldn't have thought that executives at that level would let misogyny override greed, but it seems I guessed wrong.


I think the comparison to Black Widow is somewhat apropos probably, at least in terms of screen time. It's looking more along the lines that "Man of Steel 2" is morphing into "a mini Justice League" movie if the rumors of Nightwing, Green Lantern and multiple villains are true. It would also closely follow Step 1 of WB's modus operandi of following behind Marvel (Avengers) with their movie productions. Step 2 usually being "and fuck it up"

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07 Jan 2014 09:05 #34992 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Don't forget the authorized comic book that DC launched just before MOS came out. In that book, Kara Zor El is seen walking away from her crashed, frozen spaceship, on Earth, nearly 20,000 years ago. The natives (who looked like Inuits) drew the classic El family "S" after seeing her.

Clearly, someone at Warner had plans to use that backstory, and MOS is the only reasonable place for that to emerge. I'd assumed Kara herself would surface after being frozen for all that time, but having her be the genetic source of the power of the Greek gods (and Amazons) would be logical and interesting.

It's intriguing to think that the Greek gods (as portrayed in mythology and the comics) are a mix of human and Kryptonian. I've never seen the "origin story" of the Greek gods, so this could fit into WW's origin story without disrupting anything in either downstream mythology or Amazon history. Its simply something we didn't know until now about the Greek gods.

Anyway, works for me, assuming we're speculating in the right direction. I like the idea that all mythological gods are ultimately aliens, in any case. Besides, Marvel essentially did that with Thor when they came out with his movie -- changed him from a god into an alien.

To primitive peoples, there would be no distinction, however. I think it was Arthur Clarke who said that any sufficiently advanced science would be perceived as magic by humans. Magic and "divine powers" are the same thing when it comes to mythology, and both could be scientifically-based.

This way the writers get to handle the origin story without going down the path of ancient "gods", and still showing WW as the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, as shown in the current comic rag. Some ancient Kryptonian blood ran in both their veins, and was concentrated in Diana. That would also open the door to a romantic entanglement between Diana and Kal El if they want to ultimately follow that path (which is also in the current comic book).

The idea of an alien Kryptonian and a very human Lois Lane having children was always too far fetched in my eyes. No way could such alien species could interbreed. I always figured Kal would do a "Larry Niven" on her in any case, if you get my drift. But Diana would be perfect.

Besides, I like the potential for stories that involve a daughter born of Superman and Wonder Woman. She'd be something else.

But now I'm getting WAY ahead of the rumor.

Shadar

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07 Jan 2014 09:12 #34993 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

shadar wrote: ...
The idea of an alien Kryptonian and a very human Lois Lane having children was always too far fetched in my eyes. No way could such alien species could interbreed. ...


If Supergirl was the source behind the power of the Greek gods, wouldn't that mean SHE interbred with humans? From that logic, there would be nothing speaking against Lois.

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07 Jan 2014 11:37 #34994 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

Jabbrwock wrote:

castor wrote:

lfan wrote: Rumors surfacing that Wonder Woman's role in MOS2 will "be on par with that of Black Widow in Iron Man 2", possibly paving the way for her own movie.


Elf


So two questions:

A )So its a pretty small part in a very crowded movie with a cool fight scene at the end, but not a lot of actual characterization?

B ) Where i can i rent this Black Widdow movie? it logically stars the most marketable female actress around, so probabbly its good.


I think a better question is why does one of DC's most recognized and marketable characters over the course of decades need the same movie treatment as a Marvel character only known to serious comic book fans before the last couple of Marvel movies?

I hold out no hope for Wonder Woman in Man of Steel 2, because it's becoming incredibly clear that the powers that be at the studio are looking as hard as they can for an excuse to bury the character beyond hope of any further appearances in movies for at least a decade or two. I wouldn't have thought that executives at that level would let misogyny override greed, but it seems I guessed wrong.


I think that the point here is a differenc ein terms of approach to the subject. The Avngers franchise movies were developed by Marvel Studio and most of the creative process was done by people who knows and understand the matter at hand. Whereas DC movies are developed directly by the Warner (for the most part) which means that the execs have a much stronger control over the subject.
As a result Wonder Woman is perceived as a difficult to market character - probably just a tad easier than the Black Widow - from which all the other considerations spawn.
I won't comment on the idea that they might redesign her origin entirely, but I have to say this: given that we already have "the" two big name characters in this movie, it's possible that someone decided to streamline the creative process and background behind WW, to make easier for the uneducated audience to understand the character; in a world already privy to the existence of aliens, I think that adding gods to the mix might be perceived as too much (in spite of what Marvel is doing :p ).

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07 Jan 2014 13:46 #34995 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
I hope everyone realizes that this idea was just one guy's OPINION on what he "THOUGHT" might happen to Wonder Woman's origin.

He's not even the first to think of it. I posted this way back in June to the WW comic book resources board:

Would you accept this version of Wonder Woman?

Really, I was just trying to think of a way for WB to stay within their "realism" angle in regards to WW's origin. Of course, I was dismissed as a lunatic by the WW fans. Another guy posted another version of the same general concept and was also dismissed. Then this guy on BOF posts his opinion on his website and the WW fans went berserk.

As for my opinion, I think WW should have her own origin separate and apart from Superman. I just don't see how you can explain the existence of Greek gods within the realism angle they seem to be going down. Perhaps if they made the Gods some other aliens instead of Kryptonians then some WW fans would be marginally accepting.

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07 Jan 2014 14:36 - 07 Jan 2014 14:53 #34996 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

jdrock24 wrote: I hope everyone realizes that this idea was just one guy's OPINION on what he "THOUGHT" might happen to Wonder Woman's origin.

He's not even the first to think of it. I posted this way back in June to the WW comic book resources board:

Would you accept this version of Wonder Woman?

Really, I was just trying to think of a way for WB to stay within their "realism" angle in regards to WW's origin. Of course, I was dismissed as a lunatic by the WW fans. Another guy posted another version of the same general concept and was also dismissed. Then this guy on BOF posts his opinion on his website and the WW fans went berserk.

As for my opinion, I think WW should have her own origin separate and apart from Superman. I just don't see how you can explain the existence of Greek gods within the realism angle they seem to be going down. Perhaps if they made the Gods some other aliens instead of Kryptonians then some WW fans would be marginally accepting.


Quite the visionary, JD! I went back and read the thread and don't think they jumped on you too bad. As such, was a pretty good concept. You should mow the lawn more often! :P

As for WW's mythological/gods origin, I'm kinda torn because I'm a firm believer that the movie studios should stick to the canon, as written in the comics. I never understood where they feel to reinvent the wheel for the sake of reinventing it. That said, I'm not a huge fan of the "mythological origins and storylines" in Wonder Woman so this idea doesn't bother me as much as the diehard WW zealots.

As for WB's thought process, perhaps -- as Shadar alluded to -- that studios don't like to portray superheroes as "gods", as it polarizes certain movie goers. More polarizing still might be the luke-warm success (or failure) of god/mythological movies of late such as Clash of the Titans remake, Wrath of the Titans, and Percy Jackson Sea of Monsters, at least domestically. I'm of the strong opinion that the new Hercules movie will crash and burn as well.

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Last edit: 07 Jan 2014 14:53 by lfan.

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07 Jan 2014 14:47 #34997 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

jdrock24 wrote: I hope everyone realizes that this idea was just one guy's OPINION on what he "THOUGHT" might happen to Wonder Woman's origin.

He's not even the first to think of it. I posted this way back in June to the WW comic book resources board:

Would you accept this version of Wonder Woman?

Really, I was just trying to think of a way for WB to stay within their "realism" angle in regards to WW's origin. Of course, I was dismissed as a lunatic by the WW fans. Another guy posted another version of the same general concept and was also dismissed. Then this guy on BOF posts his opinion on his website and the WW fans went berserk.


If this is just the media picking up your material from a message board and running with it(and not citing the source) then you deserve Good Karma my friend. Even if its not true, good karma.

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07 Jan 2014 14:48 #34998 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

lfan wrote:

jdrock24 wrote: I hope everyone realizes that this idea was just one guy's OPINION on what he "THOUGHT" might happen to Wonder Woman's origin.

He's not even the first to think of it. I posted this way back in June to the WW comic book resources board:

Would you accept this version of Wonder Woman?

Really, I was just trying to think of a way for WB to stay within their "realism" angle in regards to WW's origin. Of course, I was dismissed as a lunatic by the WW fans. Another guy posted another version of the same general concept and was also dismissed. Then this guy on BOF posts his opinion on his website and the WW fans went berserk.

As for my opinion, I think WW should have her own origin separate and apart from Superman. I just don't see how you can explain the existence of Greek gods within the realism angle they seem to be going down. Perhaps if they made the Gods some other aliens instead of Kryptonians then some WW fans would be marginally accepting.


Quite the visionary, JD! I went back and read the thread and don't think they jumped on you too bad. As such, was a pretty good concept. You should mow the lawn more often! :P

ElF


Thanks LFAN. They were pretty nice to me in that thread. Some of them just chalked it up to the heat messing with my thought process. It was pretty hot out there.

No more mowing until summer. Although, I now have to go shovel a foot of snow off my driveway so perhaps I'll try to think of something else while I'm doing it. LOL

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07 Jan 2014 20:21 #35000 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Well, DC/Warner did set this up in a comic book that was released just before the MOS movie came out. In that issue, Kara Zor El was a member of a Kryptonian research team back in the era when Krypton was trying to find planets to seed their population to. The attempt failed, and Krypton withdrew to its home planet, abandoning the new colonies.

The comic showed that on Earth, a research ship crashed in the Arctic nearly 20,000 years ago (or maybe just during an ice age)... with one survivor. Kara. The movie showed that ship in modern times with one an empty hibernation pod, so they were leveraging off that story line.

Now, 200 centuries later, the MOS sequel might be preparing to show us either that the gods of the Greek mythology were descendants of this one Kryptonian female, or perhaps just the Amazons are. I would favor the “Greek gods are Kryptonians” concept, which allows the current story line from the WW comic book to be consistent. In the current story line, Diana (WW) is the daughter of Hippolyta (the Amazon queen) and Zeus, the King of the Greek gods. Presumably this ancient Kryptonian genetic line exists in both the gods and the Amazons and is concentrated in Diana.

This is a major change from the usual Amazon origin story, but I really like it. Not the least for the fact that it is analogous in some ways to my own thinking relative to the origin concepts of the AU and what I called the Protos (early Supremis who lived on Earth and are responsible for most our our worlds mythology). The difference is accident versus intent.

Also, it was shown in MOS that Kryptonians do not reproduce via normal methods, instead using some kind of “birthing matrix”. In MOS, Kal El’s birth was a natural one, the first in centuries, which was considered an abomination on Krypton. Also, given this birthing matrix, a portion of which was carried by each of the survey (or seed) ships (including the one that crashed on Earth), they could create Kryptonians via the “machine”, and could presumably create specified traits. MOS revealed that Kryptonians were made for specific purposes. Scientists, soldiers, etc. were pre-determined by the matrix.

Given that, a person wielding such a machine on Earth could presumably create an all female race like the Amazons, and without Kara actually having to mate with anyone from Earth. Its a nice end-run around the Niven issues.

Actually, it sounds a lot like a spin of the Maternity Engine concept that I came up with first in the AU (back in the 1980's). Yet instead of the three genetic classes we have in the AU, which allowed a measure of choice of occupation by the individual, the Kryptonians defined the exact occupation of each child to be born and tweaked their DNA accordingly. Or so MOS backstory seems to suggest. (e.g. Zod was “made” to defend Krypton, and is compelled to do so regardless of consequences or damage to other life forms).

All of this neatly avoids having to portray “living gods” in a modern movie. Marvel did much the same with Thor where they changed the Asgardians from gods into an alien race living in an alternate dimension (with portals to our world). I’ve alway liked the “gods were really just aliens” concept in any case.

Arthur Clarke probably had it right when he said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

Kryptonians with interstellar space flight capability and a “birthing matrix machine” would certainly have been regarded as gods 20,000 years ago. Back when we humans were still rubbing sticks together and inbreeding with Neanderthals and living in caves or whatever.

Shadar

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07 Jan 2014 20:44 #35001 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?

shadar wrote: had it right when he said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

Kryptonians with interstellar space flight capability and a “birthing matrix machine” would certainly have been regarded as gods 20,000 years ago. Back when we humans were still rubbing sticks together and inbreeding with Neanderthals and living in caves or whatever.

Shadar


This reminds me i guess of the comparison you hear a lot to Thor-which in the movies(and in fairness the comics for about 15 years) has been a sufficently advanced alien not a god.

Of course the problem with that is that means Wonder Woman is half a superman at best.

Castor

(note i wrote a story that i may publish here in a little bit that plays around with techno Wonder Woman that i am going to release when i have the time for a bigger rewrite)

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07 Jan 2014 21:15 #35002 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Not necessarily... if we accept the Kryptonian Birth Matrix as hinted in MOS (and to some degree the comics), it can potentially create babies without human involvement. Which means its got both the ova and sperm capability, or so I read it. The claim in MOS was that all the births of the future were already loaded inside the machine, given it was the last Birth Matrix. Kal had the design for that machine implanted in his body as a baby and carried it to Earth (which is a bit preposterous, even for this genre), but Kara also had a functioning copy of the original machine in her ship when she crashed on Earth long ago. Zod would not know that any more about that than Kal El did, as word would not have gotten back to Krypton (although Kryptonians did know about Earth in other regards).

Perhaps through Diana, Kal may learn the truth.

Lastly, the birthing matrix, as I understand it, could have been turned on to create either the Greek gods or the Amazons (full-blooded Kryptonians) without human involvement and any "genetic dilution". I suppose the writers could crank in an "Earth-environment" angle to show why the folks it created aren't exactly like Kryptonians born on Krypton.

If we follow this line of "logic", then Diana could more or less arm wrestle Superman. Given her lesser muscle mass, she might lose, but not without making him sweat a bit.

In any case, the MOS sequel writers have some interesting stuff in their bag. It's fun to speculate what they will do with it. And speculate is all we can do right now.

Shadar

castor wrote:

shadar wrote: had it right when he said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

Kryptonians with interstellar space flight capability and a “birthing matrix machine” would certainly have been regarded as gods 20,000 years ago. Back when we humans were still rubbing sticks together and inbreeding with Neanderthals and living in caves or whatever.

Shadar


This reminds me i guess of the comparison you hear a lot to Thor-which in the movies(and in fairness the comics for about 15 years) has been a sufficently advanced alien not a god.

Of course the problem with that is that means Wonder Woman is half a superman at best.

Castor

(note i wrote a story that i may publish here in a little bit that plays around with techno Wonder Woman that i am going to release when i have the time for a bigger rewrite)

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08 Jan 2014 12:02 #35008 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Well, we HAVE had female-only worlds, though strictly for feminist arguments:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-gender_world#Female-only_worlds

And birth labs (Not sure how matrixes differ from that):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyteen

--Brantley

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08 Jan 2014 13:47 #35011 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
Just to complicate things a bit here's a rumor in the opposite direction . :P

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08 Jan 2014 14:24 #35015 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Will Wonder Woman be part Kryptonian?
FWIW, I spoke to someone I know who has friends on the production crew of MOS2 and supposedly its PURE speculation, as the part for WW hasn't even been written yet.

ElF

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