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Wonder Woman Director leaves project

14 Apr 2015 02:00 #41463 by Markiehoe
Wonder Woman Director leaves project was created by Markiehoe
Creative differences.
She probably wanted to make a good movie

www.comicbookresources.com/article/direc...creative-differences

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14 Apr 2015 02:30 #41464 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Hmm....trouble in Paradise (Island)?

Seriously, I was never keen on the "must get a woman director" strategy, but I was excited over Maccleran. Her work on Breaking Bad, House of Cards, and Better Call Saul is amazing IMO. Hopefully they'll get a great director -- male or female.....

ElF
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14 Apr 2015 06:29 #41466 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

lfan wrote: Hmm....trouble in Paradise (Island)?

Seriously, I was never keen on the "must get a woman director" strategy, but I was excited over Maccleran. Her work on Breaking Bad, House of Cards, and Better Call Saul is amazing IMO. Hopefully they'll get a great director -- male or female.....

ElF


I wasn't either.. but I took it as "let's make sure we widen the field and actually LOOK at female directors". It's too easy to limit the selection to a small list of men, casting a wider net is better.

I'd love to know the full story here -- but it's also sausage making, and creating something like a big budget movie is a big thing, and one prone to people being not in sync for a host of reasons. It's not like this hasn't happened before in general and to Super hero films in specific. (We'll see who good Antman is shortly.)

Still, this fills me with a bit of dread that a good director felt compelled to walk. (Felt the same about Wright and Ant-Man.)

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14 Apr 2015 06:33 #41467 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
I am going to guess and this is hypothesis:

Warner brothers has a very specific idea for the movie. Most likely a semi thoughtful take on feminism mixed with action and for lack of a better word Female tone- Soft Gentle, etc.

The Problem is....i don't really know of any female directors who really do that kind of movies

Quite well behaved women rarely make history, and rarly make movies. .

(okay Elizabeth Allen is kinda that way, but i can't imagine her getting. Though Aquamarine is a movie i like more then i should)

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14 Apr 2015 10:51 #41468 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
I really don't know what to think about this, the more I heard about the development of this project, the more it feels like Warner is playing catch-up with Marvel Studios, while leaving the hand-brakes on.They keep ruching on announcing that this actor and that director are going to work on their movies, but so far none of this amounted to much. Dawn of Justice was pushed back one year after being announced -- which is a very mixed signal in my book -- and everything else we know about is pretty close to zero.

The only bit of information that I found interesting was the fact that someone removed the filter from the promo picture of WW and the result is interesting.


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14 Apr 2015 13:17 #41471 by AJF
Replied by AJF on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Sounds like studio micromanagement to me. Maybe Marvel will hire her to direct Captain Marvel.

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14 Apr 2015 15:18 #41472 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
While this is a setback for her own movie, there are some rumors swirling that WW's involvement in BvS is a 'highlight of the film'. Here is a set of tweets from Gail Simone from a trusted source:



ElF

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14 Apr 2015 16:09 #41473 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
I think Woodclaw said it best when they said that WB is playing catchup to Marvel with the handbrakes on.

I also tend to agree with the opinion stated that this is probably due to her not wanting to direct a bad movie, as someone said.

I am a huge Wonder Woman fan in general, and I just don't think they have a clue what to do with her. In fact, I don't think Warner Bros. and DC for that matter, really have a clue what they are doing with regards to their cinematic universe. Albeit this is based off one film they have released (which was not really Superman imo), and A LOT of speculation with regards to BvsS (which, imo, if this is an indication of the most creative title they could come up with, speaks volumes about their creativity and professionalism/respect for the property. At best, it sounds like a working title, which I assumed it was, then they announced it as the official one lol).

Marvel, on the other hand, has a VERY CLEAR vision of where they want to go, what they want to do. And they have respect for their property. They KNOW they are not creating some deep, meaningful, artistic works. But they also know that they want to create GOOD movies. Their movies are fun, adventure romps, with an epic story unfolding. Compare this to MoS, which is VERY stylistic, tries to be all brooding and all "art-y" (for point of a better word). As a quick example, check out the shot when Clark is talking to the priest, pretty early on in the film, and the image of Jesus is in the background stained-glass window. This is film school level symbolism.

As an aside, this is not the first thing that WB has screwed up with regards to franchises. Turbine had a very clear idea of what they were doing with Lord of the Rings Online. Yes it was not the huge success that World of Warcraft is, but it had a good following and community. And, for the most part, Turbine fed them what they wanted. Then WB took over Turbine and the game just went in a different direction.

Rather then build on what they had, they completely tore it up and shifted vision. And the community did not like that. As evidenced by the exodus of players and lack of cohesive direction or coherent vision for the game.

I guess what I'm saying, in a protracted/long-winded way, is that WB is to much "suit" to make comic books films. Yes, The Dark Knight trilogy was a success, but that was Batman. You can't really mess that up by grounding him in reality. It worked. But it does not really work for about 99% of all other comic characters (DC or Marvel). You need to embrace and celebrate the fantastical nature at their core. If you don't, you're doomed to fail.

I mean, how many thought a talking racoon and walking tree would be one of the highest grossing films (if not the highest) in the year it was released? And this was based on a marginal comic book, with no mainstream appeal. I didn't tbh. But it worked because they had fun with it, and had a team that took itself seriously when it had too.

The DC cinematic universe is looking like its gonna fail to launch imo. And imo you can blame WB for that.

Just my 2 cents ofc.

Peace.

/K

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14 Apr 2015 19:51 #41474 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

lfan wrote: While this is a setback for her own movie, there are some rumors swirling that WW's involvement in BvS is a 'highlight of the film'. Here is a set of tweets from Gail Simone from a trusted source:



ElF


I'm going to take that with a grain of salt. While Gail isn't exactly a sellout, she has become DC's corporate mouthpiece on women's issues and toes the company line for the most part.

And yes, this is more micro-managing from WB executives. The cycle of suck for DC movies has begun anew.
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14 Apr 2015 19:59 #41475 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

kikass2014 wrote: I think Woodclaw said it best when they said that WB is playing catchup to Marvel with the handbrakes on.

I also tend to agree with the opinion stated that this is probably due to her not wanting to direct a bad movie, as someone said.

I am a huge Wonder Woman fan in general, and I just don't think they have a clue what to do with her. In fact, I don't think Warner Bros. and DC for that matter, really have a clue what they are doing with regards to their cinematic universe. Albeit this is based off one film they have released (which was not really Superman imo), and A LOT of speculation with regards to BvsS (which, imo, if this is an indication of the most creative title they could come up with, speaks volumes about their creativity and professionalism/respect for the property. At best, it sounds like a working title, which I assumed it was, then they announced it as the official one lol).

Marvel, on the other hand, has a VERY CLEAR vision of where they want to go, what they want to do. And they have respect for their property. They KNOW they are not creating some deep, meaningful, artistic works. But they also know that they want to create GOOD movies. Their movies are fun, adventure romps, with an epic story unfolding. Compare this to MoS, which is VERY stylistic, tries to be all brooding and all "art-y" (for point of a better word). As a quick example, check out the shot when Clark is talking to the priest, pretty early on in the film, and the image of Jesus is in the background stained-glass window. This is film school level symbolism.

As an aside, this is not the first thing that WB has screwed up with regards to franchises. Turbine had a very clear idea of what they were doing with Lord of the Rings Online. Yes it was not the huge success that World of Warcraft is, but it had a good following and community. And, for the most part, Turbine fed them what they wanted. Then WB took over Turbine and the game just went in a different direction.

Rather then build on what they had, they completely tore it up and shifted vision. And the community did not like that. As evidenced by the exodus of players and lack of cohesive direction or coherent vision for the game.

I guess what I'm saying, in a protracted/long-winded way, is that WB is to much "suit" to make comic books films. Yes, The Dark Knight trilogy was a success, but that was Batman. You can't really mess that up by grounding him in reality. It worked. But it does not really work for about 99% of all other comic characters (DC or Marvel). You need to embrace and celebrate the fantastical nature at their core. If you don't, you're doomed to fail.

I mean, how many thought a talking racoon and walking tree would be one of the highest grossing films (if not the highest) in the year it was released? And this was based on a marginal comic book, with no mainstream appeal. I didn't tbh. But it worked because they had fun with it, and had a team that took itself seriously when it had too.

The DC cinematic universe is looking like its gonna fail to launch imo. And imo you can blame WB for that.

Just my 2 cents ofc.

Peace.

/K


I sure hope you are wrong, but I see no evidence that you are. Quite the contrary. The weird thing is that nearly everyone, inside and outside the industry, sees the Marvel recipe, yet Warner wants to do it differently.

While there are many ways to make good movies, there aren't a lot of ways to make good superhero movies. If Warner insists on doing thing differently from a well-functioning artistic model for superhero movies, then they put themselves and their fans at considerable risk of suckdom.

With DC, the core of their best characters is wild and crazy alien or alternate dimension kind of fantabulism. But DC wants to make it all feel real. To have believable characters in the real world.

Which is where they start to go wrong. IMHO.

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14 Apr 2015 20:13 #41476 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

ArgentDragon wrote:
I'm going to take that with a grain of salt. While Gail isn't exactly a sellout, she has become DC's corporate mouthpiece on women's issues and toes the company line for the most part.

And yes, this is more micro-managing from WB executives. The cycle of suck for DC movies has begun anew.


Well, I wouldn't expect her to overtly say "WW sucks in the film", but I don't see her to be a company "yes man" either. She quit Firestorm book right away as the New 52 started which drew some raised eyebrows and then later abruptly left Batgirl I believe over "creative differences." That said, she's been in the game long enough to know where her bread is buttered. Of course, her tweet was based on another's opinion, not hers so perhaps we should take it with a grain of salt! :) Just passing along the message....

ElF
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14 Apr 2015 21:47 #41479 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
She would be a Yes- Woman ;)

These tweets have an odd timing about them.
WB gets a punch to the gut one day with a director quitting then all of a sudden their NUMBER ONE female employee rattles off three tweets.

Hmmmmmm

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14 Apr 2015 22:30 #41480 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
What is with all the Debbie Downers in here? Directors leave projects all the time over "creative differences". This is nothing new. It is not even restricted to WB/DC as Marvel has had a couple of directors bow out from projects and those movies stayed on track.

True, I have ripped on WB in the past for taking so long to get a WW film made. But I think this time is different. I thoroughly enjoyed MOS and can't wait to see what the upcoming DCCU comes up with,including WW.

Those arguments that WB is "rushing it" are totally off base. I mean, how can they be "rushing it" when they are going to have close to three years between movies? How is that rushing?

The other argument I read all the time is "WB should just make movies like Marvel does". Well guess what? They tried that with Green Lantern and failed miserably. After all, what is so wrong with diversity? I don't want to see the same movie over and over again. I'm perfectly happy with Marvel movies before more "fun" and "wise-cracking" while DC movies are more epic and serious.

Back to the original point: Is this a setback for finally getting WW on the big screen? Yes. But is it a huge, production stopping setback? I don't think so. I think they will have a new director shortly who will take WW to new heights.

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15 Apr 2015 06:47 #41483 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Heres the thing. Dark Knight as a film like all of Nolan's Films is far from perfect, but i would argue its better then any of the Marve Studio Movies. All three of the movies are good. Man of Steel is ambitious movie, that yeah is a faiilure but its not from "lets copy marvel". Green Lantern...Yes is kinda of a copy, but its also more ambioutous in special effectsany of the marvel movies-its also a direction they have all but disavowed.

Yes they aren't batting a 100% but neither is Marvel, and they are as a default going for something more serious and at least trying for ideas. So good.

I do have some kinda hope for Batman Vs Superman. It does sound interest. All of the Movies they announced-From Sucide Squad, To Wonder Woman to Cyborg sound neat/. They can do this.

Ps. And for the Record: Iron Man 2 has a middle thats way to soggy for its own good, Captian America 1 just doesn't have much of a story, I sometimes think i am the only one who kinda has pacing issues with GOTG, and Winter Solder doesn't have any real sence of Danger which makes it as a political Thriller Kinda limp. I would probably Put Man of Steel above Iron Man 2 and Captain America 1

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15 Apr 2015 11:24 - 15 Apr 2015 11:25 #41484 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Wal Mart is a great mirror of society.
They sell things people want for as cheaply as possible and still turn a huge profit.

www.walmart.com/ip/The-Dark-Knight-Widescreen/10719507

www.walmart.com/ip/28773452

People who want Captain America are willing to pay FOUR times the price for a movie that has been out for years now.

It is hard to find a Marvel movie for anything less than $15
Last edit: 15 Apr 2015 11:25 by Markiehoe. Reason: typo

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15 Apr 2015 13:06 #41486 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
comicbook.com/2015/04/14/former-director...e-a-tiger-sidekick-/

Dunno if this is true, but if so, it only reinforces my point of finding the Best PERSON to direct, not just a woman. Having non-comics fans trying to "reimagine" iconic characters like WW (e.g. David Kelly) leads to disaster while comics fans like Joss and James Gunn often nets better results. That doesn't mean they cannot exude creativity but at least respect the overall canon of the character.

That being said, the article seems a little fishy, as I have a hard time that points like this never arose in their due diligence and vetting of her. One would think the question of "how do you see WW?" would have to come up sometime. Such a radical concept and deviation from the comics should have been mentioned. Then again, because it wasn't, maybe that's why WB decided to cut bait....

ElF
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15 Apr 2015 13:33 #41487 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

shadar wrote:

kikass2014 wrote: I think Woodclaw said it best when they said that WB is playing catchup to Marvel with the handbrakes on.

I also tend to agree with the opinion stated that this is probably due to her not wanting to direct a bad movie, as someone said.

I am a huge Wonder Woman fan in general, and I just don't think they have a clue what to do with her. In fact, I don't think Warner Bros. and DC for that matter, really have a clue what they are doing with regards to their cinematic universe. Albeit this is based off one film they have released (which was not really Superman imo), and A LOT of speculation with regards to BvsS (which, imo, if this is an indication of the most creative title they could come up with, speaks volumes about their creativity and professionalism/respect for the property. At best, it sounds like a working title, which I assumed it was, then they announced it as the official one lol).

Marvel, on the other hand, has a VERY CLEAR vision of where they want to go, what they want to do. And they have respect for their property. They KNOW they are not creating some deep, meaningful, artistic works. But they also know that they want to create GOOD movies. Their movies are fun, adventure romps, with an epic story unfolding. Compare this to MoS, which is VERY stylistic, tries to be all brooding and all "art-y" (for point of a better word). As a quick example, check out the shot when Clark is talking to the priest, pretty early on in the film, and the image of Jesus is in the background stained-glass window. This is film school level symbolism.

As an aside, this is not the first thing that WB has screwed up with regards to franchises. Turbine had a very clear idea of what they were doing with Lord of the Rings Online. Yes it was not the huge success that World of Warcraft is, but it had a good following and community. And, for the most part, Turbine fed them what they wanted. Then WB took over Turbine and the game just went in a different direction.

Rather then build on what they had, they completely tore it up and shifted vision. And the community did not like that. As evidenced by the exodus of players and lack of cohesive direction or coherent vision for the game.

I guess what I'm saying, in a protracted/long-winded way, is that WB is to much "suit" to make comic books films. Yes, The Dark Knight trilogy was a success, but that was Batman. You can't really mess that up by grounding him in reality. It worked. But it does not really work for about 99% of all other comic characters (DC or Marvel). You need to embrace and celebrate the fantastical nature at their core. If you don't, you're doomed to fail.

I mean, how many thought a talking racoon and walking tree would be one of the highest grossing films (if not the highest) in the year it was released? And this was based on a marginal comic book, with no mainstream appeal. I didn't tbh. But it worked because they had fun with it, and had a team that took itself seriously when it had too.

The DC cinematic universe is looking like its gonna fail to launch imo. And imo you can blame WB for that.

Just my 2 cents ofc.

Peace.

/K


I sure hope you are wrong, but I see no evidence that you are. Quite the contrary. The weird thing is that nearly everyone, inside and outside the industry, sees the Marvel recipe, yet Warner wants to do it differently.

While there are many ways to make good movies, there aren't a lot of ways to make good superhero movies. If Warner insists on doing thing differently from a well-functioning artistic model for superhero movies, then they put themselves and their fans at considerable risk of suckdom.

With DC, the core of their best characters is wild and crazy alien or alternate dimension kind of fantabulism. But DC wants to make it all feel real. To have believable characters in the real world.

Which is where they start to go wrong. IMHO.


I think that the big problem here is that Warner doesn't want to be saddled with being the copycat and so they're struggling to find their own way. Unfortunately the only answer they seemed to found so far is "being Batman". It's no secret that Bats is the highest selling point of the DC universe and that Nolan's version of the character worked very well with the audience. This is where the biggest problem rolls in: since every other try has failed so far they're betting everything on what they think is their one winning horse. For me the problem is not that they want to do things realisticly -- it can be a very intelligent choice -- but if realism means to go back to the grim-n-gritty of the '80s then my answer is no (and I usually love the grim-n-gritty). The big problem with the Warner seem to recapture the sense of wonder that is at the core of the superhero genre. When Richard Donner directed the first two Superman movies in the '70-'80s he insisted that subject had to be treated 'straight' rather than 'camp', but also insisted that one of they key point of the movie was to make people believe that a man could fly.
The big trick of Marvel is that they're producing their movies though a proprietor studio, which means that the artistic control is stricter than in other cases. Granted this is not a 100% warranty, but I think it helps a lot to keep the characters more true to their roots. It also helps that Marvel scored big by putting one mind -- namely Joss Whedon's -- in charge of the entire project after it took off.

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15 Apr 2015 14:59 - 15 Apr 2015 15:39 #41488 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

Markiehoe wrote: Wal Mart is a great mirror of society.
They sell things people want for as cheaply as possible and still turn a huge profit.

www.walmart.com/ip/The-Dark-Knight-Widescreen/10719507

www.walmart.com/ip/28773452

People who want Captain America are willing to pay FOUR times the price for a movie that has been out for years now.

It is hard to find a Marvel movie for anything less than $15


You are actually using prices found on the internet to reinforce your argument that "everything DC has ever done (or ever will do) sucks and everything Marvel has ever done is awesome"?

This doesn't prove anything. I was just at my local WalMart in January and saw Iron Man 1, CA:TFA, and MOS all in the same discount bin for $10.00 or less. In fact, if this works, here is a link from Amazon that found new Iron Man DVD's for less than $10.00:

Iron Man dvd

That really didn't seem that "hard to find a Marvel movie for less than $15". Even if I couldn't, all that just boils down to the company's pricing strategy, not any relevance to the quality of the movie.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not some DC cheerleader that thinks everything they did has been great (Don't get me started on Superman Returns), but I also don't believe that everything Marvel has done has been the greatest thing since sliced bread (Iron Man 3 anyone...).

What really grates on me is the Marvel fanatics who seem to have this insatiable need to tear down everything DC/WB tries to do in some bizarre attempt to prop up "their" company. Marvel is doing just fine on their own, they do not need your help.

In the end, I just want good movies from both companies.
Last edit: 15 Apr 2015 15:39 by jdrock24.

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15 Apr 2015 15:08 #41489 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

lfan wrote: comicbook.com/2015/04/14/former-director...e-a-tiger-sidekick-/

Dunno if this is true, but if so, it only reinforces my point of finding the Best PERSON to direct, not just a woman. Having non-comics fans trying to "reimagine" iconic characters like WW (e.g. David Kelly) leads to disaster while comics fans like Joss and James Gunn often nets better results. That doesn't mean they cannot exude creativity but at least respect the overall canon of the character.

That being said, the article seems a little fishy, as I have a hard time that points like this never arose in their due diligence and vetting of her. One would think the question of "how do you see WW?" would have to come up sometime. Such a radical concept and deviation from the comics should have been mentioned. Then again, because it wasn't, maybe that's why WB decided to cut bait....

ElF


Yeah, I don't know if this story is true about the "talking tiger sidekick" for WW. However, if it is, that would have alienated a huge portion of the fan base. Perhaps WB was right to cut ties with her...

I just hope they get a great director, male or female, who can do WW justice. I'm still going to think positive and believe that they will.

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15 Apr 2015 19:12 - 15 Apr 2015 20:25 #41492 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

jdrock24 wrote:

lfan wrote: comicbook.com/2015/04/14/former-director...e-a-tiger-sidekick-/

Dunno if this is true, but if so, it only reinforces my point of finding the Best PERSON to direct, not just a woman. Having non-comics fans trying to "reimagine" iconic characters like WW (e.g. David Kelly) leads to disaster while comics fans like Joss and James Gunn often nets better results. That doesn't mean they cannot exude creativity but at least respect the overall canon of the character.

That being said, the article seems a little fishy, as I have a hard time that points like this never arose in their due diligence and vetting of her. One would think the question of "how do you see WW?" would have to come up sometime. Such a radical concept and deviation from the comics should have been mentioned. Then again, because it wasn't, maybe that's why WB decided to cut bait....

ElF


Yeah, I don't know if this story is true about the "talking tiger sidekick" for WW. However, if it is, that would have alienated a huge portion of the fan base. Perhaps WB was right to cut ties with her...

I just hope they get a great director, male or female, who can do WW justice. I'm still going to think positive and believe that they will.


Well, it would have been the first time WB taking an active hand in a DC movie turned out right, if it is the case.

I agree that it should be the best directer available that gets the source material, but I think if they could get a good female director (say, Katheryn Bigelow), it would be better than an equally talented male director.

ADDENDUM: And now I'm completely depressed after the sudden realization that a talking tiger sidekick was going to be the lead-in to the director's next DC film project: Mary Marvel
Last edit: 15 Apr 2015 20:25 by ArgentDragon.

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