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How "Antman" Highlights the Sad State of Marvel’s Female Charac

20 Jul 2015 20:19 #43265 by castor
A facebook Friend of mine wrote an article that thought maybe intresting to people in the group.

screencrush.com/wasp-marvel-female-characters/

Nothing ground breaking but well written and made some intresting points ,particuarly about MCU movies and movies in general.

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21 Jul 2015 02:29 #43267 by enchantederotica
I respectfully and completely disagree.

Hope was the strongest character in the entire movie by far. She was tough, unyielding, and to assume we have to way until Avengers 3.1 doesn’t help an argument. She could be in Civil War, the next movie in the MCU, for all we know. As much as I dislike “Kate”, she was fantastic as the role of the future Wasp. More than I could have ... hoped.

If there is a sad state of any kind of superwomen, it’s CBS’s Supergirl, which clearly and blatantly highlights the sad state of superwomen in the media: a girl who needs a man (Superman) to show her the way. Yes, he isn’t in the series, but she didn’t want to show off her powers until a man did it first. She just wants to be like a man, and just be badass on her own. She even copies his uniform. I know this is how the comics were ... but that doesn’t change the fact. She quirky, cute, bubbly, and weak willed. It’s like Clark Kent became Superman, not Superman became Clark Kent. It’s like ... the entire TV Series is based upon Saturday Night Live’s “Black Widow Rom Com” skit.

www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bl...idow-trailer/2863475

If you want a strong female character who doesn’t take shit and isn’t afraid to kick a little ass: MCU’s Wasp.
If you want a cute bubbly girl to pick up cars and shoot laser eyes: Supergirl

To each their own. I’m glad I have another female superhero to look forward to other than Captain Marvel (because Scarlet Witch has proven to be lame already).

Supernautral women with superpowered sex-drives: www.enchantederotica.com

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21 Jul 2015 04:40 #43271 by TwiceOnThursdays

enchantederotica wrote: I respectfully and completely disagree.

Hope was the strongest character in the entire movie by far. She was tough, unyielding, and to assume we have to way until Avengers 3.1 doesn’t help an argument. She could be in Civil War, the next movie in the MCU, for all we know. As much as I dislike “Kate”, she was fantastic as the role of the future Wasp. More than I could have ... hoped.

If there is a sad state of any kind of superwomen, it’s CBS’s Supergirl, which clearly and blatantly highlights the sad state of superwomen in the media: a girl who needs a man (Superman) to show her the way. Yes, he isn’t in the series, but she didn’t want to show off her powers until a man did it first. She just wants to be like a man, and just be badass on her own. She even copies his uniform. I know this is how the comics were ... but that doesn’t change the fact. She quirky, cute, bubbly, and weak willed. It’s like Clark Kent became Superman, not Superman became Clark Kent. It’s like ... the entire TV Series is based upon Saturday Night Live’s “Black Widow Rom Com” skit.

www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bl...idow-trailer/2863475

If you want a strong female character who doesn’t take shit and isn’t afraid to kick a little ass: MCU’s Wasp.
If you want a cute bubbly girl to pick up cars and shoot laser eyes: Supergirl

To each their own. I’m glad I have another female superhero to look forward to other than Captain Marvel (because Scarlet Witch has proven to be lame already).


I'm going to guess that you've not seen the Supergirl pilot. Because it's only the long initial trailer that brings comparison to the SNL skit (the pilot doesn't have that feel). And if you've seen the pilot and still think that -- then I respectfully and completely disagree. And, without going spoilerly, we really can't go into why that is.

Hope is a great character in the movie -- and Pym kept her out of the action for more reasons than just to protect her -- that just was an over-riding reason. (Also spoilery to talk about.) There is also a strategy to hold some forces in reserve, esp if your enemy doesn't think you have any.

But if you use her to hold up Marvel's female Superheroes you're going to look a little foolish right now as you're holding an empty bag. She's not a Super-hero YET. I agree she'll be fantastic when Marvel FINALLY let's her suit up and kick-ass. (Whenever that is.) Right now she's a great female character -- and is less of a Super Hero than Pepper Potts. I guess she did use the cybernetic ant-control for 3=4 seconds in the movie.

I'm not sure you read the article where it says all sorts of things like that she's clearly more qualified than Scott (etc), but they STILL don't put her in the costume. I think you agree with that. Yet you were pretty firm you completely disagreed with the article. And that she's a great example of a female super-hero when Hope's Wasp has had exactly 0 seconds of screen time, which really was the entire point of the article. It wouldn't have taken much to put her in the suit for a bit in this movie.

And Scarlet Witch was lame? Not the same Scarlet Witch from the comics assuredly, but she did her part well in the movie. It is pretty hard to come in as an outsider into a well defined tight knit cast, who all have their roles down pat. Calling her lame seems a bit harsh, she wasn't as lame as the Falcon or Iron Patriot. Neither she or Quicksilver were really given enough time to develop in the movie though. But, unlike Hope's Wasp she actually IS a MCU Superhero RIGHT NOW.

So if she's lame, then good % of the MCU's female Super-heroes are lame. And what was the article titled again? "The Sad State of Marvel's Female Characters".

I think you are arguing FOR the article and not against it.

And for some inexplicable reason, ranting against Supergirl. (It's clear that you feel very passionately about this topic but I'm not sure you are articulating why very well yet.)

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21 Jul 2015 05:10 - 21 Jul 2015 20:37 #43272 by castor
There is a game peiole plays about movies: Describe it in a sentance

here is Wasp in Antman

Shes a tough capable woman who is more skilled and qualified then the lead, who spends the entire film waiting for the sexist wealthy business executive to 'give' her the role of an existing intellectual property .

People have suggested that this is a very subtle parody joke, but yeah.

Its the give. She is not a character who gets all that much traditional agency. She does doesn't take power. she waits for it to be handed down. she is window dressing For Paul Rudd to make him look cool-and while they play with it in some cute ways yea

It is good we stuff like Supergirl, and if nothing Else Sucide Squad looks like its going to focus on its female characters...but yeah. We are getting better its still not great.

Wasp is not going to be in civil War, she is certainly not going to have her own movie so...yeah. And it is 4 and a half years till we get Ms. Marvel.
Last edit: 21 Jul 2015 20:37 by castor.

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21 Jul 2015 20:23 #43279 by shadar

enchantederotica wrote: I respectfully and completely disagree.

Hope was the strongest character in the entire movie by far. She was tough, unyielding, and to assume we have to way until Avengers 3.1 doesn’t help an argument. She could be in Civil War, the next movie in the MCU, for all we know. As much as I dislike “Kate”, she was fantastic as the role of the future Wasp. More than I could have ... hoped.

If there is a sad state of any kind of superwomen, it’s CBS’s Supergirl, which clearly and blatantly highlights the sad state of superwomen in the media: a girl who needs a man (Superman) to show her the way. Yes, he isn’t in the series, but she didn’t want to show off her powers until a man did it first. She just wants to be like a man, and just be badass on her own. She even copies his uniform. I know this is how the comics were ... but that doesn’t change the fact. She quirky, cute, bubbly, and weak willed. It’s like Clark Kent became Superman, not Superman became Clark Kent. It’s like ... the entire TV Series is based upon Saturday Night Live’s “Black Widow Rom Com” skit.

www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bl...idow-trailer/2863475

If you want a strong female character who doesn’t take shit and isn’t afraid to kick a little ass: MCU’s Wasp.
If you want a cute bubbly girl to pick up cars and shoot laser eyes: Supergirl

To each their own. I’m glad I have another female superhero to look forward to other than Captain Marvel (because Scarlet Witch has proven to be lame already).


I will chime in as well to note that I also believe you are misrepresenting the Supergirl TV show and their handling of the character. I think the show is going to set a new high-water mark for superheroines, not a low mark. But then, I've seen the pilot and listened to most of the creative staff and cast as they've discussed their characters. This show is going to build a fire under Marvel, who haven't figured out female superheroes yet (on the screen, anyway).

The elephant in the room is how well Batman v Superman movie will handle things. If they do a decent job with WW, then DC is going to be leagues ahead of anything Marvel has done.

Yet with their Ms. Marvel, they have the potential to create a non-cliched superheroine. Ms. Marvel has more potential for an excellent story than any character DC owns. Question is whether they see that and hire and focus the creative staff correctly.

They have to respect who Carol Danvers is. She's a woman who became a military combat pilot, a facility Security Chief and then an intelligence operative, All in her twenties. Imagine the kind of woman who can do that, and what her personality and strengths are. Then add in her newly gained Kree powers (which approximate Kryptonian), and you've got someone who isn't afraid to apply power when she needs to. But more than anything, she's used to being in total control of herself, and she's accustomed to competing and excelling in roles that until recently were only be open to men. Now she'd got these somewhat out-of-control superabilities (which will challenge her absolute need to control her life), yet when she's hot, she's incredibly powerful. Power she would know how to use.

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