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Captain Marvel bumped...again

08 Oct 2015 21:47 - 08 Oct 2015 21:48 #44480 by ArgentDragon
Captain Marvel bumped...again was created by ArgentDragon
New announcements about Marvel's Phase 3 came out today. Among the bigger announcements was that there's gong to be a sequel to Ant-Man in the now active Phase 3, called 'Ant-Man and The Wasp'. Unfortunately, it means that Captain Marvel gets bumped again to March 2019.

www.cinemablend.com/new/4-Major-Changes-...Beyond-87097-p3.html
Last edit: 08 Oct 2015 21:48 by ArgentDragon.

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08 Oct 2015 22:14 #44482 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again
I saw as well....extremely bummed.....do we need another fucking Spiderman movie/reboot?!?!

ElF

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09 Oct 2015 00:56 #44485 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again
While I have to say I am disappointed with this announcement, it does make sense, from Marvels point of view. Releasing a sequel while Ant-Man is still "hot" makes sense financially, as more ppl will likely remember who he is and go see it. Rather then waiting til 2019 to release it, when the general public will have, possibly, lost interest. Capt. Marvel being a fresh char, can just be introduced at a later date.

What this means for the Infinity storyline though, remains to be seen, as Capt. Marvel is def. a big "cosmic" player.

On the plus side, we have Supergirl and Jessica Jones coming real soon to tidy us over for a bit :) So things aren't too bad :) Also Wonder Woman in BvsS and I think also her solo film is out 2017 (?), so plenty to look forward to.

Peace.

/K
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09 Oct 2015 01:55 #44488 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again
As a guy who thought the first movie was a prefoundly disapointing movie, and whose box office was mediocre at best...yeah wondering why there doubling down here.

and of course there pushing back the woman led movie for the film where the woman is the second fiddle.

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09 Oct 2015 08:04 #44497 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again

castor wrote: As a guy who thought the first movie was a prefoundly disapointing movie, and whose box office was mediocre at best...yeah wondering why there doubling down here.

and of course there pushing back the woman led movie for the film where the woman is the second fiddle.


It's at 80% on Rotten Tomatoes and has an 89% audience rating, so it was anything but a failure. Especially considering the character. Iron Man was relatively unknown to the general public until the first movie, but it's pretty easy to sell a billionaire industrialist genius playboy with a suit of armor that flies and blows stuff up good . Selling to the movie-going public a guy who shrinks and talks to ants is considerably more difficult. I'm not surprised at all that a sequel is planned.

You're right that it's not fair that Captain Marvel keeps getting pushed back. But Hollywood is not a fair place by any measure. We can debate and dance around why female-lead movies and strong female characters get the shaft, but it all boils down to the fact that movies and comics are almost always marketed to play to a adolescent male fantasy that involves women being second fiddle to the men.Things change slowly, but they do change. Agent Carter was a sleeper hit that no-one expected to see a second season out of. Jessica Jones is going to be the big test here; if it does well, I think you'll see some re-shuffling and Carol getting bumped up a few months earlier as the execs get comfortable with the idea that a strong female character can anchor a popular movie/series.

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09 Oct 2015 18:16 #44501 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again
Its true that it generally reviewed well....

but also it made 170 million in domestic box office, Marvels Lowest return since the incredible Hulk. On a 130 million budget given marketing thats probabbly a loss, if not a gigantic one in domestic numbers. It made 440 million world wide, which is okay(but more on that in a second, and i suspect all things considered it will make some money...but yeah, not really huge numbers here by the over a billion Avengers made

Now this is a comedy and what sometimes happens in the last 20 years is that does better in sequal form. Austin Powers made a respectable box office. Its sequals where huge hits, in part becuse it was generally a funny movie that when people saw it on DVD they wanted to see it in theathers.

I realize some people loved Ant Man=but mostly i got comedy wise wsa that It had cute Stuff. Luis Guzman was funny. there where jokes(i liked Stolls Villian) Paul Rudd is a funny actor but not a comedy genius here. And Comedies rarely translates that well overseas. if your depending on your comedy to do well in korea you may be making a mistake.

As a special effect-well what are they going to do next? Hes shruk. This has been a problem with AntMan comics for years. There are intresting Villians antman has fought first-Ultron is the classic example-but you don't necessarily show that. The concept thats been thrown around is that in most marvel movies the hero inevitably fights a character with the same power as him...and well that was your climax in the first one. Its hard to construct a villian at fight at diffrent scales, and a second small guy fight....well....

My problem with it was it introduced two characters-an iresponsible man child who needed to grow up(see iron man, guardians of the galaxy, Thor, etc) and a strong competent woman... who despite being better at him in everyway pretty much sits the entire movie out-until after the credit where we see a new costume that the older male character let her have.

With the title you can suspect there going to give her more to do in the sequal but still kinda... ehhh.

As for Captian Marvel, i am getting the sence from some of the recent Kevin Feige interviews they really don't have that clear of an idea of what they want to do yet which isn't a great sign but...

sigh.

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09 Oct 2015 18:46 #44502 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again
The reason why Marvel is succeeding (and DC failing) at the movies is because they're not just superhero films. Marvel is showcasing wonderful and diverse storytelling using superheroes as a backdrop. Captain America: The Winter Soldier? A classic political/spy thriller with costumes. Thor? Shakespearean family tragedy with gods. Guardians of the Galaxy? Classic space opera with a minimum of superhero window dressing. There's a trap that most people, even comics fans, fall into in thinking that the only thing comics can do is tell cape & cowl adventures, forgetting about or not being aware of the wide variety of stories that the medium produced up until the Werthram testimony and the CCA. Comics are a medium, any story can be told using them.

So, Ant-Man isn't just about shrinking guys fighting each other, it's a heist film involving superheroes. Saying that there's nowhere to go because Yellowjacket is dead is like saying there's nothing to do for the Ocean's 11 idea after the first one. We can discuss the quality of the followup films, certainly, but the general idea of the heist film still lives on. Ant-Man is the infiltrator and thief, also with ties to wierd science and tech stories. Ant-Man also suffers from the same problem Iron Man had which is the majority of the villains are pretty much unknown or obscure. Iron Man overcame that and I'm sure Ant-Man will too.

And again, see my earlier post about comics and films fulfilling adolescent male power fantasies. We have to accept that we are in the minority in being males that want to see strong female characters, and without some serious ratings or numbers to back things up, Hollywood will not believe that a female-driven action story is a viable idea; the spectacular failures of the Bionic Woman and Wonder Woman TV reboots just re-enforce position . Hence, my feeling that the measure of success Jessica Jones finds will directly affect the release schedule for Captain Marvel. If JJ is a smash hit on the level that Daredevil was, Disney/Marvel will jump on getting CM developed.

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10 Oct 2015 06:04 #44506 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel bumped...again

ArgentDragon wrote: The reason why Marvel is succeeding (and DC failing) at the movies is because they're not just superhero films. Marvel is showcasing wonderful and diverse storytelling using superheroes as a backdrop. Captain America: The Winter Soldier? A classic political/spy thriller with costumes. Thor? Shakespearean family tragedy with gods. Guardians of the Galaxy? Classic space opera with a minimum of superhero window dressing. There's a trap that most people, even comics fans, fall into in thinking that the only thing comics can do is tell cape & cowl adventures, forgetting about or not being aware of the wide variety of stories that the medium produced up until the Werthram testimony and the CCA. Comics are a medium, any story can be told using them.

So, Ant-Man isn't just about shrinking guys fighting each other, it's a heist film involving superheroes. Saying that there's nowhere to go because Yellowjacket is dead is like saying there's nothing to do for the Ocean's 11 idea after the first one. We can discuss the quality of the followup films, certainly, but the general idea of the heist film still lives on. Ant-Man is the infiltrator and thief, also with ties to wierd science and tech stories. Ant-Man also suffers from the same problem Iron Man had which is the majority of the villains are pretty much unknown or obscure. Iron Man overcame that and I'm sure Ant-Man will too.

And again, see my earlier post about comics and films fulfilling adolescent male power fantasies. We have to accept that we are in the minority in being males that want to see strong female characters, and without some serious ratings or numbers to back things up, Hollywood will not believe that a female-driven action story is a viable idea; the spectacular failures of the Bionic Woman and Wonder Woman TV reboots just re-enforce position . Hence, my feeling that the measure of success Jessica Jones finds will directly affect the release schedule for Captain Marvel. If JJ is a smash hit on the level that Daredevil was, Disney/Marvel will jump on getting CM developed.


While I agree with you about Marvel making different kinds of movies, and that being a good thing, I think i'm going have to respectfully disagree about your sentiment about DC. For one, coming off the Dark Knight Trilogy, this isn't something that is normal considered failing. And as Much as I don't really like Man of Steel, it made money and was well made. It's not what Marvel is doing, but variety is good. Sure by the extent of money (and enjoyably) I'd say marvel is going a better job, but that doesn't mean DC is failing.

You can say "Failing" for DC when you looking at: Green Lantern (but it wasn't THAT bad), Jonah Hex (what were they thinking?), Catwoman. Some would include Constantine, but I don't. I would say that with Dark Knight and MoS you can't claim they are _universally_ failing, and overall I think they get more than a passing grade.

As for variety, I think you are selectively remembering DC's movie offerings. The failed list above has a lot of variety in it.

Watchmen, Constantine, Green Lantern V for Vendetta, The Losers, Jonah Hex. These aren't normal comic book movies. Sure they didn't knock them out of the park like Marvel did, but you can't say they aren't making a variety of movie.

For that matter DC owns Wildstorm so Red and Red 2 count. Haven't seen Red 2, but Red is a fun movie. Red, Red 2 and the Losers aren't really "super hero movies", just "comic book movies". But shouldn't they get MORE points for variety for that?

I think the trope of "the female led action movie not making money" is gone. In the world of the Hunger Games, Lucy, Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (the first made money, though I wasn't a huge fan), the multi-movie franchise of Resident Evil, and Underworld. Not to mention Kill Bill 1 & 2, Alien & Aliens ....I think it's already been proved a well made female led action movie can make $$, it's just taking time for this to sink in, and realize that "well made" doesn't describe most of the flops. I guess Salt was well made and it didn't make a bunch of money (I don't think it lost money though.). I don't think the Divergent Series is making a ton of money, but they're making money too. The Hunger Games and Lucy both are really recent, and made a shit-ton of money. Maybe Marvel does need Jessica Jones to convince them, but they're not paying attention if they do.

I'm not encouraged by pushing Captain Marvel back -- I'm going to agree with Castor, I don't think they know what they want to do with the movie yet, and this is one of the reasons they've not cast her yet. Iron Man was done of the fly, but I think the later Marvel movies all had a working script before hiring actors -- they knew what they were trying to accomplish, and picked an actor and then dialed in the story to the actor/director

Marvel's comic division on the other hand has gotten the message loud and clear. In the new lineup are A-Force (all female Avengers team), Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Angela, Thor, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Scarlet Witch, and Spider-Woman. Silk, Thor, and Spider-Gwen are constantly in the top sellers for Marvel too. Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel are well received and are bringing in female readers. Black Widow? It's sales were a crime as the comic was fantastic (art/story). It's now being taken over by the Mark Wade/Chris Samdee team hot off Daredevil, so it's not like Marvel isn't putting some big guns on the book.

It's 10 out of 45 books, >20% of their titles are female led and three of them are top selling books (top 5). A good chunk of the remaining titles have heavy female presence (all the Avengers teams have significant female characters for example, as does Web Warriors, Ultimates, Agents of SHIELD, and Hawkeye). Oh, shit, i forgot All new Wolverine in the list above -- X-23 is Wolverine now. So that 20% is much more when you look at that. Marvel's not trying to sell just the adolescent male power fantasy anymore. You can look at DC and see the same, though I think DC is more schizophrenic (the power fantasy thing is what is wrong with Superman right now).

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