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Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

14 Mar 2017 14:10 - 14 Mar 2017 14:19 #53147 by shadar
shadar created the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
I was reading this morning about the 17 (yes, 17) movies that Warner has in development for the next few years.

io9.gizmodo.com/heres-the-latest-on-all-...ible-upco-1792691855

What is disappointing is that Supergirl is not part of any of them, and they are reaching down pretty deep into the character list.

I'm wondering if Warner is content to leave SG in the quasi-soap-opera space on CW where she can do soft emotional feel good shows. Not hard action or drama but kind of touchy-feely stuff. Maybe that's where they figure she belongs -- on the small screen.

WW obviously gets the big screen in her own movie and in the Justice League continuum. Good for Gal Gadot... she gets to reprise perhaps 3 or 4 WW roles, including her brief appearance on MOS. Hope she pulls it off. And of course, we get Harley Quinn again.

Any other thoughts on why, with 17 movies, some of which include multiple DC characters (like the Justice Leagues), we aren't going to see Kara on the big screen for the foreseeable future? I mean, with 17 films, she doesn't even show up once?

Shadar
Last Edit: 14 Mar 2017 14:19 by shadar.

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14 Mar 2017 14:54 #53149 by AuGoose
AuGoose replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
My understanding is Green Arrow isn't in the que for the big screen, and that character's more successful and arguably transformed the entire landscape of comic-to-live-action. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Ultimately Supergirl is ALWAYS going to be the bluntly derivative spin-off of Superman, and until Superman gets traction on the big screen again, Kara doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Plus she presents the exact same problem as has Supes buried in the ground right now - her power level is so outrageous, her mere EXISTENCE removes the need for 90% of the other characters to do anything. Look at the recent cross-over for an example of "yeah, she's here, but we dare not let her DO ANYTHING."

Until we start seeing good storytelling with Kryptonians in any format, don't expect them to start pushing for more screen time for the assorted 'Big S' characters.
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14 Mar 2017 16:00 #53150 by Woodclaw
Woodclaw replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

shadar wrote: I was reading this morning about the 17 (yes, 17) movies that Warner has in development for the next few years.

io9.gizmodo.com/heres-the-latest-on-all-...ible-upco-1792691855

What is disappointing is that Supergirl is not part of any of them, and they are reaching down pretty deep into the character list.

I'm wondering if Warner is content to leave SG in the quasi-soap-opera space on CW where she can do soft emotional feel good shows. Not hard action or drama but kind of touchy-feely stuff. Maybe that's where they figure she belongs -- on the small screen.

WW obviously gets the big screen in her own movie and in the Justice League continuum. Good for Gal Gadot... she gets to reprise perhaps 3 or 4 WW roles, including her brief appearance on MOS. Hope she pulls it off. And of course, we get Harley Quinn again.

Any other thoughts on why, with 17 movies, some of which include multiple DC characters (like the Justice Leagues), we aren't going to see Kara on the big screen for the foreseeable future? I mean, with 17 films, she doesn't even show up once?

Shadar


As far as I can tell the general idea that WB is pursuing is to keep the TV universe and the Cinematic universe as separate as possible. So far Flash is the only major character in common (except for the one-off appearence of Superman) and, I believe the only one that could be used in both easily. While Green Arrow is certainly an iconic character in the DC universe he's always been the 7th out of six main Leaguers, i.e. the one that was iconic, but was also easy to swap out. Supergirl, as AU said, is perceived as a derivative of Superman, a situation that is aggravated by the fact that she lacked a personal supporting cast -- a major problem that led to the soap-opera-ish TV series. Flash is both iconic being pretty much "the" speedster -- making him mandatory for the JLA -- but a rather low key character at the same time, he's often described as a the blue collar superhero and I think that description fit very well. If we look at his rogue gallery and supporting cast there are very few characters that strike a high note -- there's no Lex Luthor, nor Joker, nor Circes -- they're all solid but down to the ground characters.

If we look at the line-up of the TV universe we have one big name hero (the Flash), two well know but replaceable (Supergirl and Green Arrow) and a bunch of characters that are either so obscure very few people know about them (like Vibe) or characters that are iconic but not well known (Martian Manhunter and the Atom). This roll call makes me think that what we have here is more of a repository for all those characters that DC don't know what to do with and give free reign to the writers.

BAck to the topic, I'm by no mean an expert of classic Supergirl, but looking at some pre-Crisis books she rarely had any meaningful opponents -- and pretty much none was a recurring -- and most of her supporting cast was made up of derivatives from Superman's friends and foes (Lena Luthor, Lucy Lane etc.). As far as I can tell the only characters that were unique to the Supergirl mythos were the Danvers and that's not much to work with. Hence adding Supergirl to any of these movies would be perceived as problematic at best since there's pretty much no material to work with and she's just too powerful not to be a factor in the long run. It's true that having a character that is essentially a white board might prove interesting for the writers, but that would require a very long and elaborate movie just to establish Supergirl as something different from Superman's expy and even more time to put her supporting cast into perspective.
So far the movie that had the biggest number of no-namers was Suicide Squad and, it come to no surprise, it was pretty much written and shot to cash as much as possible on the star power provided by Will Smith and Margot Robbie (just look at how long their intro clips were compared to Croc or Boomerang). Suicide Squad had to deal with the same problem: establishing a number of characters that are not iconic in pop culture and get the audience engaged in their stories, while trying to tell a bigger one and build a credible team at the same time.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

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14 Mar 2017 16:04 #53151 by LustMonster
LustMonster replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

AuGoose wrote: her power level is so outrageous, her mere EXISTENCE removes the need for 90% of the other characters to do anything. Look at the recent cross-over for an example of "yeah, she's here, but we dare not let her DO ANYTHING!


This is the problem I have with characters like Superman and Supergirl, in a nutshell. They are simply too powerful to be jammed into an ensemble cast of many superheroes. There seems to be this belief in comic book land that if A is good, and B is good, and C is good, then A+B+C must be THREE TIMES AS GOOD! What results is the same sort of struggle that RPG developers face: character balance. Somehow every nail must be hammered down just right, so it doesn't stand any taller than any other nail.

Just let Supergirl have her OWN Earth to protect! Kara vs super villains, evil dictators, etc. Why must everything be a massive crossover ensemble?
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14 Mar 2017 16:52 #53154 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

AuGoose wrote: her power level is so outrageous, her mere EXISTENCE removes the need for 90% of the other characters to do anything. Look at the recent cross-over for an example of "yeah, she's here, but we dare not let her DO ANYTHING!


And yet the original Donner film from the 70’s handled Superman’s (and by extension Supergirl’s) power level rather well. Lex Luthor used his brain and worked out that, with all the power Superman has, even he can’t be in two places at the same time.

Now, admittedly, this is can seem as a simplification. But it goes to show with the right creative writing, nothing is impossible.

The problem is, and this is just a guess, with superhero cinema in general. It appears a lot of it is all flashy fights and CGI. Of course you are gonna have a problem with someone like Supergirl and her power level if that is how you approach it.

Again, take a look at the Donner Superman film. There really isn’t much Superman action at all. Especially with him using his abilities against the villain of the piece in the sense that he doesn’t “punch” Lex to defeat him.

Good superhero stories aren’t all about fighting and explosions. One of the best scenes in that film is the dialogue between Lex and Kal-El when they first meet. There are many more, and they don’t involve Superman using his power.

Because Superman is more than just what his power level is. He is the embodiment of what a hero is. Modern DC has missed the point on this.

Now back to Supergirl.

What I think needs to happen, if we are to get a cinematic depiction of the Maid of Might, is to firstly reboot her. No two ways about it. Reboot her and then, and here is the important part and point of rebooting her, CLEARLY DEFINE HER POWER SET AND LEVEL.

She can’t be lifting a multi-ton spaceship into space in one scene, then struggle against a robot in another.

Secondly, establish a COSMIC level threat that can challenge her. This one is easy, as you have Darkseid et all. Now don’t blow this in the first film. Build up to it.

Much like a video game, have Kara work her way through “underlings” that get tougher.

For example, let us say start with Lena Luthor as the first villain, thus giving a connection to the overall universe.

Then, use someone like Blackstarr. Maybe Lena was being manipulated by her.

Then, bring in the Female Furies. Maybe Blackstarr had a deal with them.

Then bring in Darkseid.

And so on.

It can be done. Just I don’t think there is that much creativity left in Hollywood anymore.

Sorry for the ramble.

Peace.

/K

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14 Mar 2017 17:12 #53155 by AuGoose
AuGoose replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
Did you really just point to the movie that added "unspool TIME" to Superman's powers as an example of good Superman writing?

Sure. I remember if fondly because I was a kid at the time. There's some great performances, but that movie is pretty much the textbook example of why Superman is a boring character. He wins. Always. Completely and overwhelmingly. Which is awesome when you're 12. And just this side of retarded when you're 13 and up.

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14 Mar 2017 17:50 - 14 Mar 2017 17:51 #53156 by LustMonster
LustMonster replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

AuGoose wrote: Did you really just point to the movie that added "unspool TIME" to Superman's powers as an example of good Superman writing?

Sure. I remember if fondly because I was a kid at the time. There's some great performances, but that movie is pretty much the textbook example of why Superman is a boring character. He wins. Always. Completely and overwhelmingly. Which is awesome when you're 12. And just this side of retarded when you're 13 and up.


Lieutenant Columbo wins every time too. Completely and overwhelmingly. But those TV movies are still quite enjoyable. The winning isn't necessarily bad, it just comes down to the writing/telling of the story. Make the battles interesting!
Last Edit: 14 Mar 2017 17:51 by LustMonster.
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14 Mar 2017 22:59 #53163 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

Did you really just point to the movie that added "unspool TIME" to Superman's powers as an example of good Superman writing?


No. That is not the point I was making.

Sure. I remember if fondly because I was a kid at the time. There's some great performances, but that movie is pretty much the textbook example of why Superman is a boring character. He wins. Always. Completely and overwhelmingly. Which is awesome when you're 12. And just this side of retarded when you're 13 and up.


This is a question of taste. Nothing to do with how something can be, or is.

Lieutenant Columbo wins every time too. Completely and overwhelmingly. But those TV movies are still quite enjoyable. The winning isn't necessarily bad, it just comes down to the writing/telling of the story. Make the battles interesting!


^ This is the point.

Peace.

/K

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15 Mar 2017 00:16 - 15 Mar 2017 01:43 #53166 by lowerbase
lowerbase replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
You should be thankful that she has a TV series at all.

I don't think half of that slate will see the light of day. DC/Warner needs to bring new blood and start all over again. Giving this universe to Zack Snyder to produce was a big mistake. Just as giving Hulk to Ang Lee.

Both are great directors in my book. Man of Steel wasn't that bad.

Honestly, no recent DC movies are 'fun', just like Watchmen was not 'fun' or I might say, for the whole family to enjoy. I not very hopeful of the next ones. looking at those photos feels like stuff from nightmares (not the WW,)

I only hope that WW gives us a better movie than the endless trash that DC is about to throw at us.

It might change directions a bit.
Last Edit: 15 Mar 2017 01:43 by lowerbase.

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15 Mar 2017 01:59 #53168 by erikphandel
erikphandel replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
I wouldn't say "relegated" since her show is miles better than anything that has come out to the silver screen from DC since the last of Christian Bale's Batman

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15 Mar 2017 17:04 #53176 by jdrock24
jdrock24 replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

erikphandel wrote: I wouldn't say "relegated" since her show is miles better than anything that has come out to the silver screen from DC since the last of Christian Bale's Batman


Wow! People actually believe this?

Honestly, I gave up on the current Supergirl show because of the poor writing. Even my 11 year old daughter (who you would think would be the demo they are going for) has stopped watching it. Although I don't really know her reasons because I haven't asked.

Meanwhile, both MOS and BMvSM (especially the Ultimate Cut) were fantastic, despite what a few critics with agendas say on RT.

I know this is all a matter of opinion but the term "miles better" when comparing the two is a bit...extreme, for lack of a better word.

To bring this topic back on course and away from the pending DCEU bashing, I think that Supergirl is probably relegated to the small screen simply because she is a derivative of Superman and will be constantly seen as dependent on him. Heck, even her current show had to bring in SM's supporting characters and then the man himself in order to prop up her image.

Unfortunately for us fans, another solo SG film is not coming anytime soon. Although I could see her being introduced in a SM movie (MOS 2?). Perhaps in a fight involving Brainiac like in this graphic novel:

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15 Mar 2017 18:45 #53178 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

Wow! People actually believe this?


While I wouldn’t go so far as to say “miles better”, it at least sticks closer to the tone and mythos of the source material. So yes, it is believable in that sense.

Meanwhile, both MOS and BMvSM (especially the Ultimate Cut) were fantastic, despite what a few critics with agendas say on RT.
I know this is all a matter of opinion but the term "miles better" when comparing the two is a bit...extreme, for lack of a better word.


I hate to say this, but you do know that this “Meanwhile, both MOS and BMvSM (especially the Ultimate Cut) were fantastic, despite what a few critics with agendas say on RT.” is also a “matter of opinion”, though you state it as fact.

While I wouldn’t go so far as to use that expression ("miles better") myself, I personally would wager it is still apt.

I’m not going to defend the series, as I too have pretty much left it due to the bad writing. And I do think you have hit the nail, if not squarely, then at least partially, on the head with this:

I think that Supergirl is probably relegated to the small screen simply because she is a derivative of Superman and will be constantly seen as dependent on him. Heck, even her current show had to bring in SM's supporting characters and then the man himself in order to prop up her image.


I agree with you on this. In the general public’s mind (and perhaps even some comic readers) Supergirl is always equated with Superman. But I don’t think it is an insurmountable problem (as I posited above). It just takes some creative writing and belief in what you are writing.

Will DC ever do this? Who knows.

Unfortunately for us fans, another solo SG film is not coming anytime soon.


Again, I agree. :(

Peace.

/K

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15 Mar 2017 18:46 #53179 by erikphandel
erikphandel replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

jdrock24 wrote:

erikphandel wrote: I wouldn't say "relegated" since her show is miles better than anything that has come out to the silver screen from DC since the last of Christian Bale's Batman


Wow! People actually believe this?

Honestly, I gave up on the current Supergirl show because of the poor writing. Even my 11 year old daughter (who you would think would be the demo they are going for) has stopped watching it. Although I don't really know her reasons because I haven't asked.

Meanwhile, both MOS and BMvSM (especially the Ultimate Cut) were fantastic, despite what a few critics with agendas say on RT.

I know this is all a matter of opinion but the term "miles better" when comparing the two is a bit...extreme, for lack of a better word.

To bring this topic back on course and away from the pending DCEU bashing, I think that Supergirl is probably relegated to the small screen simply because she is a derivative of Superman and will be constantly seen as dependent on him. Heck, even her current show had to bring in SM's supporting characters and then the man himself in order to prop up her image.

Unfortunately for us fans, another solo SG film is not coming anytime soon. Although I could see her being introduced in a SM movie (MOS 2?). Perhaps in a fight involving Brainiac like in this graphic novel:

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Not saying Supergirl is a pinnacle of writing, it has a lot of issues, but it's certainly way better than BvS or Suicide Squad

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15 Mar 2017 19:00 #53180 by jdrock24
jdrock24 replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?
Yeah, here we go. I knew the DCEU bashing would continue. Some people just can't help themselves even though I tried to bring the thread back on topic.

Suffice to say, in my opinion, BMvSM and MOS were great. An awesome elseworlds tale about Superman's ascension to becoming the hero we all know and love. Hopefully to be completed in Justice League with his return this November. (Notice I never said anything about Suicide Squad. I thought it was okay but not nearly as good as the first two.)

Any sort of movie about Supergirl would have to be tied to him so I that is why I believe we are probably never going to get a solo SG movie. The best we can hope for is for her to show up in a SM movie.

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15 Mar 2017 20:30 #53181 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Has Supergirl been relegated to the small screen?

jdrock24 wrote: Yeah, here we go. I knew the DCEU bashing would continue. Some people just can't help themselves even though I tried to bring the thread back on topic.

Suffice to say, in my opinion, BMvSM and MOS were great. An awesome elseworlds tale about Superman's ascension to becoming the hero we all know and love. Hopefully to be completed in Justice League with his return this November. (Notice I never said anything about Suicide Squad. I thought it was okay but not nearly as good as the first two.)

Any sort of movie about Supergirl would have to be tied to him so I that is why I believe we are probably never going to get a solo SG movie. The best we can hope for is for her to show up in a SM movie.


Whatever we might individually think about the DCEU these past years, with its focus on realism and grittiness and overcoming the dark and all, we know that Warner is trying hard to change it to something lighter and more fun. At least, as they define 'fun'. Whether that leads to better stories or not, I do not know. WW will give us the first glimpse of that.

I like realism (or as much as can be included given the characters), and sometimes that means darkness, but in the end, light should win over dark in convincing ways. The classic literary Epic Journey model works very well for this kind of material.

The SG TV show is extremely 'light, so perhaps the DCEU will move a bit in that direction. If done with quality writing (which SG TV does not have), this could be good. They key for me is that the story has to hold together from beginning to end with all the classic elements building to a climax and denouement. The TV show lacks that completely.

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