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WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

02 Jun 2017 15:27 #54480 by fats
Hi all,

This thread is for spoilers of the new Wonder Woman film, only read this thread if you want to know more about the film and are happy to see spoilers.


The use of the spoiler code is not permitted in this thread.

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02 Jun 2017 16:01 #54482 by shadar
The many WW showings around the Seattle area were full on Thursday night, which usually isn't a big movie night. Word of mouth and early reviews are packing people in.

Unfortunately, I was dealing with a sick dog and couldn't go. Spent the day getting MRI imaging on his whole body and a neurology consult. Now it might take until after the weekend to find an empty seat. Closest decent theater to me is about 60 miles from my house.

I suspect I'm going to read about it here first. I don't worry about spoilers. The more I know when I walk into a theater the happier I am.

My open question is whether the 3D version is better than the standard 2D digital showing? Some films work well in 3D, and some are just weird. Be nice to know before I reserve a seat.

Shadar

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02 Jun 2017 16:35 #54483 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
I'll probably remain a bit general anyway. I saw WW last night and I give it a hearty "HELL YEAH". Probably my favorite DC movie (even above Nolan's Batman. Synder's MoS or BvS aren't even in the same ball park for me, but I was troubled by both of them, I don't hate them, but each has significant problems for me. I'd have to see Burton's Batman again, it might compare, but from the hazy long term memory I don't think so)

I can't speak to the 3d. I hate 3D and saw it in 2D. I can't see how it'd add to the experience, but i'm biased. Shadar, I hope your dog is Ok!

I didn't have problems getting in, the theatre wasn't packed, but it wasn't light either.

The Amazons KICK ASS. If you aren't gobsmacked at the fight on the beach you might be on the wrong website. ;-)

Diana slowly grows in power in the movie, and the explanation fits. (Who didn't know what the "Godkiller" was from the moment it was mentioned?)

I think Steve Trevor can be a bit of a mangled mush in the comics. They did two great things here: figure out a good Trevor to go with their Diana and cast Chris Pine. He does the right things at the right times. The look at the end, where he pauses a bit before firing... it's great, no words but says volumes. I bought into the Diana-Trevor angle, they had the right chemistry.

And while I'd prefer a bit more muscle on Gal, she has enough and it's entirely secondary to the fact that she brings Diana to life. She's tall enough and solid enough that she has the right presence -- and has the sheer physical beauty that is needed to be Wonder Woman. She really does have the right aura, the right blend of regality, naivete, compassion, wisdom, beauty, and strength to play Diana. The movie title is almost a misnomer, I don't think anyone says "Wonder Woman". Unlike Man of Steel where it felt like they were embarrassed to say "Superman" (even in the title), this isn't an oversight. The movie probably should have been "Diana", except that would have been confusing to people. Her humanity is a core of the movie. I suppose Clark's was in MoS, but it also has a STRONG thread about his inhumanity. Diana's inhumanity isn't something that separates Diana from people, instead, her humanity draws people to her and her to them.

One of my favorite things in the movie. Charlie (the sniper) says some line about how no one will miss him, and Diana just looks at him, and SEES his pain. And then says, "but Charlie, who would sing for us then?" You can see the immediate effect on him, it carries with him for the rest of the movie. THAT is Diana, and how she's not like Batman or Superman. She heals everyone on Trevor's squad (including Steve).

The moment she steps up into No Man's Land? Good golly. That starts a sequence that is some of the best super-hero action ever. Diana flipping armored cars over, ripping through German lines. It's great, ending with the tower. An incredible sequence of female power, followed by the crowd reaction In Man of Steel, Supes flies away. in BvS, he's adored by the crowd and it's just painful for him (along with all the Christ metaphors). Diana is loved by the crowd, and (after a bit of surprise) she loves them back. She appears at the top of the tower and we see this moment with the eruption of joy with her framed up top. It's held for a beat, and then we immediately cut to Diana IN the crowd being hugged. This isn't a knock at of MoS or BvS either, I think it's a fair portrayal of Clark (esp the one in the two movies) and his contrast with Diana.

I think some of the CGI seems a bit plastic, but it was better done here than in BvS and MoS (which both had the same problem). I will say WW's theme is full of KICK ASS. When it starts, it's full of "AW YISS". I'll probably have to re-watch the movie to properly judge the CGI though, I was spending too much time going "wooohooo!". She lifts a damn tank, and just holds it over her head!

I know Ares is Zeus' kid too, but most of the older gods seemed to have developed their own identity and powers. So when Ares tossed lightning at Diana, I thought "you're tossing LIGHTNING at the DAUGHTER OF ZEUS?! How's that ever going to work out well for you?" (They really did amp up and add to Diana's powers, but it's all things that were in BvS.)

Anyway, kudos to Patty Jenkins, Gal Godot, and Chris Pine. They did an amazing job.
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02 Jun 2017 17:15 #54484 by Monty
Thankyou TOT. Heading out to watch this evening. Your review holds Great Expectations!
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02 Jun 2017 17:51 #54485 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

Monty wrote: Thankyou TOT. Heading out to watch this evening. Your review holds Great Expectations!


I can't wait to hear what others here think of the movie!

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02 Jun 2017 18:27 #54488 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
So here's my take...

Overall, it's a reasonably fun ride. Some good action, especially in the middle where WW charges out of the trench and into the German line, ending with the destruction of the sniper tower.

Gal Gadot plays WW very well, and after seeing the full movie I'm no longer in the "too skinny" mindset. Her aura of power and determination makes up for it.

For the most part, the battle scenes have too much CGI, and much of it looks under-budgeted and even unfinished. (The aerial scenes, especially, looked like late-80's effects.) Also, the Snyder look is still very much present, with a grunginess over everything, and characters sometimes lit too brightly against dark backgrounds.

When WW was using her lasso or her shield, she looked awesome, and the special effects held up well. When her sword came out, however, the fighting turned into "300", with a lot of annoying slowdowns and speedups. Those just serve to yank me out of the action and remind me I'm watching a movie.

She does lift (and toss) a tank several times. The first time looked, well, OK, but it was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot. The second time, near the end, I felt like the potential awesomeness of the shot had been leeched out. The tank had no apparent weight to it - it looked like she was lifting a cardboard box with a tank CGI'd over it. Major disappointment.

The final fight with Aries was rather "meh" as well. He starts out basically godlike and unbeatable, then for some reason that's not really clear, he's no longer godlike and WW soundly kicks his ass. The whole fight feels rather video-gamey without much heft to it. Just lots of WW and Aries flinging each other around.

The characters really don't have all that many good lines. Pretty much all of them appear in the trailers.

The origin story is told well, and Themyscira looks great. But the ladies were ALWAYS in battle armor, which gave the place kind of a low-budget sword-and-sandals feel. They should have been in more casual wear (togas?) most of the time.

That's all for now. I may babble some more as more thoughts bubble up...

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02 Jun 2017 18:58 #54489 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

LustMonster wrote: So here's my take...

The final fight with Aries was rather "meh" as well. He starts out basically godlike and unbeatable, then for some reason that's not really clear, he's no longer godlike and WW soundly kicks his ass. The whole fight feels rather video-gamey without much heft to it. Just lots of WW and Aries flinging each other around.


I thought this was apparent? It's not Ares getting less godly but Diana getting more so. The movie shows her steady increase in power in the face of adversity. The first time she sees a bullet she speeds up so she can see it in flight. When she leaps to climb into the armory and realizes that she can shove her hand into solid rock. She seems to power up the entire fight through no man's land to the sniper tower. All starting from the moment she blasted back Antiope after being pushed to the limit. Multiple examples of her getting more powerful in a battle/challange, it's not something they just trotted out for the fight with Ares.

The final burst, that came when Steve died, well that's a bit cliche, but also it's a trope for a reason.

I agree that fight does feel a bit video gamey.
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02 Jun 2017 19:56 - 02 Jun 2017 21:59 #54490 by Monty
Fantastic! What an explosive ending! I really thought we were going to lose Diana at the end scenes (such is the nature of a superheroine fighting for good and her people.) It was good to see her pull throuń£h. Nobody moved from their seats in the cinema well past the closing credits which were also awesome.
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02 Jun 2017 20:05 #54491 by lfan
You echo'ed my sentiments overall perfectly, ToT! It was one of the better superhero movies I've ever seen and the action scenes were incredible -- especially the first two (Amazons on beach, front line reveal). The final battle was a little too CGI-y at times, but still was good. The fight choreography was brilliant and original I thought with the amazons fighting style being a cross somewhere between ballet and MMA!

I think they captured Diana perfectly in this movie with her delicate balance of being a patron of love while being a fierce warrior at the same time. Gal Gadot I thought was fabulous. A star is born. I've seen some people taking shots at her acting skills, but I think her accent comes off misunderstood as bad acting at times. Personally, I loved her accent.

Chris Pine is fabulous as Trevor and has some of the best lines in the movie. While its WW's movie, Pine assumes the role of mentor and hero throughout the movie with a sense of contrite humor that could easily been played as condescending or mansplaining since Diana knew nothing of the world.

It's been seen in trailers, but I thought the dressing room scene was brilliant! Whoever wrote it or threw it in was incredibly clever in taking the whole "how can a superheroine (often WW) fight in THAT?" and turning it completely upside down.

As mentioned, there are girl power scenes galore. Wonder Woman is a bad ass with a capital "Bad"! Deflecting bullets, Smashing through walls, tossing guys, lifting tanks........yep, yep,yep, and yep!

The cinemotography and scenery is incredible, especially Paradise Island and the "Front" I thought.

I'm probably going back to see it again......if this doesn't kickstart female-led action and superhero movies, nothing will!

ElF

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I'll probably remain a bit general anyway. I saw WW last night and I give it a hearty "HELL YEAH". Probably my favorite DC movie (even above Nolan's Batman. Synder's MoS or BvS aren't even in the same ball park for me, but I was troubled by both of them, I don't hate them, but each has significant problems for me. I'd have to see Burton's Batman again, it might compare, but from the hazy long term memory I don't think so)

I can't speak to the 3d. I hate 3D and saw it in 2D. I can't see how it'd add to the experience, but i'm biased. Shadar, I hope your dog is Ok!

I didn't have problems getting in, the theatre wasn't packed, but it wasn't light either.

The Amazons KICK ASS. If you aren't gobsmacked at the fight on the beach you might be on the wrong website. ;-)

Diana slowly grows in power in the movie, and the explanation fits. (Who didn't know what the "Godkiller" was from the moment it was mentioned?)

I think Steve Trevor can be a bit of a mangled mush in the comics. They did two great things here: figure out a good Trevor to go with their Diana and cast Chris Pine. He does the right things at the right times. The look at the end, where he pauses a bit before firing... it's great, no words but says volumes. I bought into the Diana-Trevor angle, they had the right chemistry.

And while I'd prefer a bit more muscle on Gal, she has enough and it's entirely secondary to the fact that she brings Diana to life. She's tall enough and solid enough that she has the right presence -- and has the sheer physical beauty that is needed to be Wonder Woman. She really does have the right aura, the right blend of regality, naivete, compassion, wisdom, beauty, and strength to play Diana. The movie title is almost a misnomer, I don't think anyone says "Wonder Woman". Unlike Man of Steel where it felt like they were embarrassed to say "Superman" (even in the title), this isn't an oversight. The movie probably should have been "Diana", except that would have been confusing to people. Her humanity is a core of the movie. I suppose Clark's was in MoS, but it also has a STRONG thread about his inhumanity. Diana's inhumanity isn't something that separates Diana from people, instead, her humanity draws people to her and her to them.

One of my favorite things in the movie. Charlie (the sniper) says some line about how no one will miss him, and Diana just looks at him, and SEES his pain. And then says, "but Charlie, who would sing for us then?" You can see the immediate effect on him, it carries with him for the rest of the movie. THAT is Diana, and how she's not like Batman or Superman. She heals everyone on Trevor's squad (including Steve).

The moment she steps up into No Man's Land? Good golly. That starts a sequence that is some of the best super-hero action ever. Diana flipping armored cars over, ripping through German lines. It's great, ending with the tower. An incredible sequence of female power, followed by the crowd reaction In Man of Steel, Supes flies away. in BvS, he's adored by the crowd and it's just painful for him (along with all the Christ metaphors). Diana is loved by the crowd, and (after a bit of surprise) she loves them back. She appears at the top of the tower and we see this moment with the eruption of joy with her framed up top. It's held for a beat, and then we immediately cut to Diana IN the crowd being hugged. This isn't a knock at of MoS or BvS either, I think it's a fair portrayal of Clark (esp the one in the two movies) and his contrast with Diana.

I think some of the CGI seems a bit plastic, but it was better done here than in BvS and MoS (which both had the same problem). I will say WW's theme is full of KICK ASS. When it starts, it's full of "AW YISS". I'll probably have to re-watch the movie to properly judge the CGI though, I was spending too much time going "wooohooo!". She lifts a damn tank, and just holds it over her head!

I know Ares is Zeus' kid too, but most of the older gods seemed to have developed their own identity and powers. So when Ares tossed lightning at Diana, I thought "you're tossing LIGHTNING at the DAUGHTER OF ZEUS?! How's that ever going to work out well for you?" (They really did amp up and add to Diana's powers, but it's all things that were in BvS.)

Anyway, kudos to Patty Jenkins, Gal Godot, and Chris Pine. They did an amazing job.

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02 Jun 2017 20:32 #54492 by Monty
The potential is there for a sequel - in fact it should be a stick on given the forecasted gross income from this weekend alone, and Gal Gadot is brilliant in her role. It was moving to see her touch Steve Trevor's photo at the end Bring her back in the 80's or 90's perhaps?

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02 Jun 2017 20:39 #54493 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

Monty wrote: The potential is there for a sequel - in fact it should be a stick on given the forecasted gross income from this weekend alone, and Gal Gadot is brilliant in her role. It was moving to see her touch Steve Trevor's photo at the end Bring her back in the 80's or 90's perhaps?


It took in $11M last night which is good, and just behind Guardians 2 (11.2M). I wonder if the initial great word of mouth with punk it up higher? I will likely see it again this weekend which I dont normally do. I'd love to see it hit north of $100M but that's a pretty high target. The 80-90 range is more likely.

www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4297&p=.htm

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02 Jun 2017 21:30 #54494 by Monty
Going back tomorrow to watch on a bigger screen. Awesome!

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02 Jun 2017 22:07 #54495 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers
Nice rendition of the movie's best scene...

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02 Jun 2017 23:08 #54496 by fats
watched it - it was good


Fats

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02 Jun 2017 23:18 #54497 by AuGoose

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: It took in $11M last night which is good, and just behind Guardians 2 (11.2M).


Yup. Quite good. And on track for an 80-90m weekend, which will likely put it solidly in the middle of superhero movies. And also hopefully put an end to the grotesque hubris of reviews proclaiming a female lead and female director are "Showing the boys how it's done." Which it turns out is just a bit harder when your list of boys is longer then Snyder, Snyder, and Ayer.

It's also been wildly tiresome hearing over an over "Its way better than a three-in-a-row string of flops!" Imagine that. What a rousing endorsement! Think back: how many times did Deadpool fans have to shout "its better than Fantastic Four!" to sell you on the Merc with the Mouth? Right, pretty much never. DC is not a closed universe. It exists in a much larger field and make no mistake the beancounters aren't giving it the same pass so many fans are. Marvel dollars and DC dollars spend just the same. I expect there will be a sequel, but it's not a rubber stamp yet.

That said, once I filter out all the reviews ardently intent on browbeating the reader with the SOCIAL SIGNIFICANCE of a female lead (whether or not this movie deserves to be that clarion call), there's the tiniest inkling of some interesting stuff. I'm now mildly curious about the final fight scene because it sounds like - by going way outside her canon powers - they might FINALLY have hit upon something that sets Diana off the line between DC's Black & Blue bookends.

In DC comics there's a third string hero by the name of Hawk. Pairs up with Dove, because, duh. There a point where someone asks him "What ARE your powers?" He answers matter-of-factly "I win." Which on the face of it might sound like total arrogant hubris, and he IS pretty arrogant, but ultimately, he's not kidding. He's an Embodiment of Chaos (part of a larger experiment with Order pitching in Dove as their Embodiment, capital E deliberate). His powers scale with the duration and ferocity of the conflict. The longer the fight goes on, the more powerful he get. Until he wins. Then they reset.

His power is literally "I win"

If they were to formally give that to Diana, not "oooo, I just keep trying" but actual divine magnitude scale up in the face of adversity, THEN, maybe, there might be some good answer to the old sad joke that is the so-called "DC Trinity":

Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman walk into a hall justice... What looks like a job for Wonder Woman?

I'm glad here people are enjoying it. In some ways a moderate success may prove better for superheroines in the long run - because then studio execs won't just rely on boobs to sell any dumb script that comes along and maybe give two shits about getting a good story too. Wouldn't that be a nice trend?
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03 Jun 2017 03:58 #54502 by lfan

Monty wrote: The potential is there for a sequel - in fact it should be a stick on given the forecasted gross income from this weekend alone, and Gal Gadot is brilliant in her role. It was moving to see her touch Steve Trevor's photo at the end Bring her back in the 80's or 90's perhaps?


Sequel on the books and Patty Jenkins on board to direct again:
screenrant.com/wonder-woman-2-patty-jenkins-director-setting/

ElF
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03 Jun 2017 09:53 - 03 Jun 2017 10:42 #54506 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic WW - Spoiler Thread - Read if you want spoilers

AuGoose wrote: Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman walk into a hall justice... What looks like a job for Wonder Woman?


Here's Gail Simone's answer to that question.

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03 Jun 2017 10:31 - 03 Jun 2017 10:52 #54509 by AuGoose
As fond as I am of Gail Simone's work, that answer is horseshit. Bats and Supes have had their stories of masterful diplomacy too (along with the diplomacy of force - you'll stop because I broke all your toys). Pretending they don't to try and carve out a niche for the character caught between the bookends isn't helping.

I think DC is doing something right that most people don't appreciate, but they won't be able to tap dance forever. Killing Superman off (temporarily) and setting her movie in WWI are both buying Wonder Woman time to operate out from under Big Blue's shadow. Because the reality is when they've both on screen the only reason it'd be Wonder Woman stopping that war, is because Supes is busy with the asteroid. Her powerset (canonically) is too much of a watered down version of his to give her distinct plot hooks and opportunities to shine.
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03 Jun 2017 16:03 #54512 by castor
I think i have said it before. Wonder Woman is an easy character to write, and to play. Other then the NBC pilot i think pretty much everyone has to some to degree done it well-Carter, the animated versions, even Cathy Lee Crosby. aren't bad. I will talk about Gal Gadot but i think for now its to say it.

Steve Trevor is an incredibly hard character to get right. Hes an ashole but the rommantic lead, the girl in love with her and impressed but also pigneaded. Its rare to see him done right. Hell the Dc universe at this point basically doesn't try. I think the 70s Tv show version was okay if in no way memorable milktoast, and most of the animated versions have been terrible....but that said Chris Pine was probabbly the best performance in the movie....and he did it by underplaying it. In a character type usually played pretty big, hes small a man thrust into a strange world of glowing water and amazon tribesman left only with his ability to quip to surivive-and he knows the quips are only going to get him so far. He consitently knows unlike most versions , or hell most characters in a superhero movies, that force will only get him so far, and will fail. Hes a man made cynical deep with in his soul but not yet ready to admit it, that if he can do one thing thats all he can-but he knows its not enough. And Pine really plays it-funny warm, caring, thoughtful. The couple of times he comes across as "no no wonder woman" its less becuse your a woman, and more "well i think your crazy" which works i think for playing that note. Pines not an actor i guess for a lot people who doesn't do a gigantic much-hes okay in the Star Trek movies enough to see why hes around but not much more-but here, well he makes the part his own

And it can be hard to write a villian. When i heard Ares was the villian. i kind of groaned. Hes a villian in the wonder woman comics whose never come across that well-or frankly any place. I am thinking of Xena here. A big blustering slob of a man only intrested in beating up people, hes a thug and kind of boring-i do sometimes think Wonder Woman =god can be dumb in general-but well agian color me suprised. I predicted that Twelis would turn out to be Ares before the movie started, but i am really glad they did. As an Ally he comes across as kindly and friendly- a good M, the kind of aging british character actor they always get for these kind of movies. But when he turns evil he doesn't reall turn into the monster. He does for the most part really underplay it. His scene trying to tempt Diana was one of my favorites in the movie simply by just kind of quietly talking. He becomes very creepy and scary just as a ghost like godlike being in a tweed suit, as a being willing to let humanity destroy itself. Yes the fight at the end we have seen before, but its a neat turn.

As do Danny Huston and Dr poision as the subvillians. Huston of course plays the thug for 3/4 of the movies-and its a red herring but a well done one. He really comes across as bruitsh and mean to everyone a simpering powermonger-which is course what hes suposed to be. When the movie pivots on it works and pretty much everything about him is well done to the point that he dies....and nothing happens. Dr Posion was of course one of the first Wonder Woman villians and Elena anya makes her creepy, ambitious ,ruthless ...but also sees the kinda of patheticness to the part as well. Like the best wonder woman villians in the comics shes scary and at the same time pittible and that works for the part.

and the film around it was well done. Setting it in World war 1 was an intresitng choice. The movie to compare it to obviously is the first Captian America-but its heads and tales better-i think in part becuse that movie really liked its time period. it was going for Nostalagia for a story about a guy who was perfect and true and nothing could stop it as we fought a great war agianst fake nazis to offend even no one.. Wonder woman isn't the case. War Kills people, not just the bad guys if that really means anything. Woman had it bad. Minorities had it bad. Everyone is suffering and dying, even the children. The movies repeated refrain from diana about the death of children is never a gimick-she can't just stand it. Shes come into a terrible world and sees it wanting, despite all the cute architecture or clever deisng touches its- hurts. The Small suppriting parts from the mercenaries to ETTA all do pretty good work in building a world, that feels lived in and importantly kinda of shitty. I have seen worse World War 1s in movies and media before-but its darkness creates a mood that works.

Which leads to Gadot-like i said in someways its an easy role to walk in and be perfect. Like a number of dicussionss from what seem so many years ago on this board-shes pretty, the movie aknoweldges it and moves along. The Special effects used to make her super well done-it really established intentionally to make her powerful-and to her performance. Its like most of the rest not particularly huge, but it stands out. you see her moral struggle and her story-but its also not affraid to let her seem naive and at times dumb. Shes in her own world and her own story and for most of the movie she seems to simply walking through ours observing and commenting and trying to help but akwnowledging that shes in something else-and that works. Shes the alien, the god, even as she falls in love and her notes of alloofness and contact(love the scene with the ice cream) really do play. Its a great performance...but its a performance that feels part and seperate from the movie.

Like i said everything about the movie is well done(okay: I though Thamasycaria felt a little to exposition island and the time jumping wonder kid wasn't needed. Oh and the Fake opening credits at the end where silly) But well done. Wonder Woman felt part of the movie that everything around her was great, and the found the balance to make that happen, which is the trick in a superhero movie.

And i thought this was probabbly the best Superhero movie of the last 10 years.









Gal Gadot did a very excelent job with the part
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03 Jun 2017 17:24 - 03 Jun 2017 17:31 #54514 by Monty
I like the "I think you're crazy Wonder Woman" I picked that up, but I will watch more into Chris Pine's performance this evening. I think I was more focused on Gal Gadot's role and performance the first time.
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