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Justice League

17 Nov 2017 07:39 #57169 by TwiceOnThursdays
TwiceOnThursdays created the topic: Justice League
First, the Rotten Tomatoes score for the movie only further proves to me how worthless it is. Becuase I liked the movie.

I think it takes all the parts I liked from BvS and enhances them. The parts I didn't like are minimized. (This might upset you if you score differently than I do).

One of my complaints of BvS is that it's full of great scenes, but doesn't integrate them into a coherent movie. Justice League has the same great scenes, but it DOES integrate them into a movie. Furthermore, some of the scenes aren't just visually awesome, they're character-driven explorations ... which I felt was totally lacking in BvS (or when BvS tried to do that, it contradicted them later in the movie). (Again, opinions can vary on this.)

BUT, enough of that, onto what we care about:

There are a lot of nice Wonder Woman scenes. She's got some epic fights, and i think carries it well. Yes, the Big Bad is only a bit better than Ares in WW, but it's "good enough" most times and I think the rest of the movie makes up for it. Shes has some additional fights, and they're great.

(A failure in the movie is trying to explain the jump from WW to BvS and where WW was and why ... but that's really not Justice League's fault.)

So from our perspective, Wonder Woman is a giant plus. Seeing a gorgeous woman be so powerful on film is a nice thrill. She gets a LOT more time to kick ass in JL than in BvS. That also might be why I like it more. ;-)

A GREAT bit of extra spice is Mera. I wish there was more of her, and seeing Amber Heard in costume makes me wish the Aquaman movie would hurry up and get here. The scene is short, but she does kick ass and looks great doing it. In fact, just give us a Mera movie...

Not to mention we see some great Amazons too. There is a pretty epic scene early on with two Amazons holding up a giant stone block. Not Kryptonian strength, but it's two BUILT women in scanty clothes (that DO seem to fit in context) showing herculean strength. I could probably watch that section on loop for a while. Sure, the big bad is mowing through Amazons during this, but damn, it's some great female strength on screen by women who ARE strong in real life. And it doesn't look like they're holding up a balloon either, they look STRONG and like they're straining. I did see Brooke Ence, but she's not on screen long enough! Wish there was more. ;-)

That's another movie: Scantily clad super-buff amazons hurling heavy things around. I don't know what the rest of the plot is, but I'm in.

So, I think for the contingent here, Wonder Woman and Mera are worth the price of admission even if you don't like the rest of the movie they hang around in. The Amazons are some extra fun.

I liked the movie. While Flash and Aquaman aren't really any Flash and Aquaman we've seen before, they're both fantastic in the movie. I LOVED Jeremy Irons as Alfred in BvS, and he's continuing that streak here. Just wonderful.

That said, Steppenwolf has NOTHING on Hela (even doing the almost impossible and not counting that Hela is a sexy Cate Blanchett). Honestly, I do think the movie works, but Thor really showed how to do the big bad. CGI as spice, not the whole thing. Makes me worry about Thanos in the Marvel movies.

Won't comment more, because even though we all know what happens, I still am not going to spoil it.

And stay all the way to the end of the credits. There are TWO credit scenes.

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17 Nov 2017 07:58 #57170 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Justice League
Glad to hear you liked it. I planned on watching it anyhow, if for no other reason than to subsidize more movies of this type even if I don't personally find them all that well done.

None of my problems with BvS were the cinematography, the continuity was an issue, but the worst part for me was the musical score which ruined scenes (for me) in many places that would have stood better on their own without any score at all.

All of the reviews I have read are lukewarm at best which is sad. Then again, they all talked up WW which I enjoyed from our particular perspective (even if Gal Gadot wouldn't have been my personal choice) but the glowing reviews go over the top for purely political reasons. It's a solid movie, but hardly worthy of the praise heaped on it.

A funny breakdown of the WW movie:



DC was my favorite as a kid and they deserve better instead of being also-rans.

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17 Nov 2017 16:57 #57174 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Justice League

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: First, the Rotten Tomatoes score for the movie only further proves to me how worthless it is. Becuase I liked the movie.

I think it takes all the parts I liked from BvS and enhances them. The parts I didn't like are minimized. (This might upset you if you score differently than I do).

One of my complaints of BvS is that it's full of great scenes, but doesn't integrate them into a coherent movie. Justice League has the same great scenes, but it DOES integrate them into a movie. Furthermore, some of the scenes aren't just visually awesome, they're character-driven explorations ... which I felt was totally lacking in BvS (or when BvS tried to do that, it contradicted them later in the movie). (Again, opinions can vary on this.)

BUT, enough of that, onto what we care about:

There are a lot of nice Wonder Woman scenes. She's got some epic fights, and i think carries it well. Yes, the Big Bad is only a bit better than Ares in WW, but it's "good enough" most times and I think the rest of the movie makes up for it. Shes has some additional fights, and they're great.

(A failure in the movie is trying to explain the jump from WW to BvS and where WW was and why ... but that's really not Justice League's fault.)

So from our perspective, Wonder Woman is a giant plus. Seeing a gorgeous woman be so powerful on film is a nice thrill. She gets a LOT more time to kick ass in JL than in BvS. That also might be why I like it more. ;-)

A GREAT bit of extra spice is Mera. I wish there was more of her, and seeing Amber Heard in costume makes me wish the Aquaman movie would hurry up and get here. The scene is short, but she does kick ass and looks great doing it. In fact, just give us a Mera movie...

Not to mention we see some great Amazons too. There is a pretty epic scene early on with two Amazons holding up a giant stone block. Not Kryptonian strength, but it's two BUILT women in scanty clothes (that DO seem to fit in context) showing herculean strength. I could probably watch that section on loop for a while. Sure, the big bad is mowing through Amazons during this, but damn, it's some great female strength on screen by women who ARE strong in real life. And it doesn't look like they're holding up a balloon either, they look STRONG and like they're straining. I did see Brooke Ence, but she's not on screen long enough! Wish there was more. ;-)

That's another movie: Scantily clad super-buff amazons hurling heavy things around. I don't know what the rest of the plot is, but I'm in.

So, I think for the contingent here, Wonder Woman and Mera are worth the price of admission even if you don't like the rest of the movie they hang around in. The Amazons are some extra fun.

I liked the movie. While Flash and Aquaman aren't really any Flash and Aquaman we've seen before, they're both fantastic in the movie. I LOVED Jeremy Irons as Alfred in BvS, and he's continuing that streak here. Just wonderful.

That said, Steppenwolf has NOTHING on Hela (even doing the almost impossible and not counting that Hela is a sexy Cate Blanchett). Honestly, I do think the movie works, but Thor really showed how to do the big bad. CGI as spice, not the whole thing. Makes me worry about Thanos in the Marvel movies.

Won't comment more, because even though we all know what happens, I still am not going to spoil it.

And stay all the way to the end of the credits. There are TWO credit scenes.


Very interesting comments, Twice, Lots of relevant thoughts without giving it away. Nicely done. Now I really want to see JL. .

Tks,

Shadar
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17 Nov 2017 16:58 #57175 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Justice League

Starforge wrote: Glad to hear you liked it. I planned on watching it anyhow, if for no other reason than to subsidize more movies of this type even if I don't personally find them all that well done.

None of my problems with BvS were the cinematography, the continuity was an issue, but the worst part for me was the musical score which ruined scenes (for me) in many places that would have stood better on their own without any score at all.

All of the reviews I have read are lukewarm at best which is sad. Then again, they all talked up WW which I enjoyed from our particular perspective (even if Gal Gadot wouldn't have been my personal choice) but the glowing reviews go over the top for purely political reasons. It's a solid movie, but hardly worthy of the praise heaped on it.

A funny breakdown of the WW movie:


DC was my favorite as a kid and they deserve better instead of being also-rans.


Starforge,

I'm confused. This is the Justice League thread. Are the reviews "lukewarm at best" as you say, or are "the glowing reviews go over the top for purely political reasons".

And what does politics have to do with Justice League anyway? Are you commenting on the movie or just venting?

I'd appreciate if you could clarify.

Shadar

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17 Nov 2017 17:38 - 17 Nov 2017 17:39 #57177 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Justice League

I planned on watching it anyhow, if for no other reason than to subsidize more movies of this type even if I don't personally find them all that well done.


Far be it for me to say what you should and shouldn't do, but. in this case, NO. Don't do that. It will only encourage them to make more of this poop.

The DCEU needs to die so that DC fans can get a real cinematic universe. Not this...whatever it is.

To answer your question about reviews Shadar, they are pretty bad, with JL currently holding a RT score of 33% (last I saw).

The more "positive" reviews tend to be from people who don't want tick off WB (for some reason). But its painfully obvious in some cases that they want to say the film "sucks" but can't bring themselves to do it.

Peace.

/K
Last Edit: 17 Nov 2017 17:39 by kikass2014.

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17 Nov 2017 18:51 #57179 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Justice League
The reviews of JL that I've seen so far have been lukewarm at best. I'm glad he had a different take on it. I'll make up my own mind once I see it.

WW, on the other hand, got rave reviews in some cases for the reason I stated in some cases for the reasons I stated.

Some of the rest was a response to parts of his post.

I thought the link was funny so included it.

Does any of that clarify?
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17 Nov 2017 19:01 #57180 by Starforge
Starforge replied the topic: Justice League

kikass2014 wrote:

I planned on watching it anyhow, if for no other reason than to subsidize more movies of this type even if I don't personally find them all that well done.


Far be it for me to say what you should and shouldn't do, but. in this case, NO. Don't do that. It will only encourage them to make more of this poop.

The DCEU needs to die so that DC fans can get a real cinematic universe. Not this...whatever it is.

To answer your question about reviews Shadar, they are pretty bad, with JL currently holding a RT score of 33% (last I saw).

The more "positive" reviews tend to be from people who don't want tick off WB (for some reason). But its painfully obvious in some cases that they want to say the film "sucks" but can't bring themselves to do it.

Peace.

/K


I get what you are saying and understand where you are coming from. I can recognize, however, that my own personal tastes shouldn't be what drives which movies are made. My small drop in the pond of support for even movies like BvS isn't going to change it's popularity AND I like to make up my own mind as to whether I like something or not. There have been a few movies over the years that I've enjoyed even though the critics did not. In fact, sometimes I enjoy a movie more if I go in with lower expectations and less if I expected the moon.

I think the DCEU would be fine with some tweaking and tone change. I certainly don't think it needs to be trashed. Again, just my 2cp
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17 Nov 2017 21:20 #57181 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Justice League
Fair enough.

I'm not going to get into a debate about your tastes, as those are yours and yours alone :)

However, on this point

I certainly don't think it needs to be trashed.

I will say that, yes it needs to be trashed, burned, and blown into space.

But, I think you will find we will have to agree to disagree on this :D

Peace.

/K
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22 Nov 2017 02:56 #57245 by Markiehoe
Markiehoe replied the topic: Justice League
I just got back from Justice League and I have to say i enjoyed it.
Not a great movie but a good movie.
Much, much better than MoS, BvS and Suicide Squad
I thought Wonder Woman really stood out and Batman was really good also.
Superman seemed more right in this movie than in his two earlier appearances.
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22 Nov 2017 04:11 #57252 by Raa
Raa replied the topic: Justice League
Agreed.
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22 Nov 2017 10:57 #57260 by erikphandel
erikphandel replied the topic: Justice League
Seems like only me and kikass2014 hated it around here...

welp at least it had Wonder Woman reflecting a hail of gunfire from a machine gun
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22 Nov 2017 13:53 #57263 by Woodclaw
Woodclaw replied the topic: Justice League

erikphandel wrote: Seems like only me and kikass2014 hated it around here...

welp at least it had Wonder Woman reflecting a hail of gunfire from a machine gun


There a few people who haven't watched it yet, I believe.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

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22 Nov 2017 16:10 #57264 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Justice League
Ye I haven't given my full review as I didn't want to spoil it.

Will wait until this weekend has passed, and then post.

Peace.

/K

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22 Nov 2017 17:08 #57267 by shadar
shadar replied the topic: Justice League

Woodclaw wrote:

erikphandel wrote: Seems like only me and kikass2014 hated it around here...

welp at least it had Wonder Woman reflecting a hail of gunfire from a machine gun


There a few people who haven't watched it yet, I believe.


I haven't watched it yet, and probably won't until I can stream it, but I don't mind spoilers. I seek out all the spoilers I can find before I watch.

I find the anticipation of seeing things I've read about (given they are always different than I imagine) is better than any surprise that might come from not knowing.

And let's face it, the plot and suspense in most superhero movies is pretty underrated anyway. We know the good guys will win somehow. The bad guy will be vanquished or at least driven away in a scene that involves huge amounts of CGI. There will be the obligatory scenes of various kinds that all movies of this genre have.

The fun for me is in enjoying the chemistry of the actors. You can't really describe or spoil that with words, at least for me.

Shadar

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22 Nov 2017 19:52 #57271 by TwiceOnThursdays
TwiceOnThursdays replied the topic: Justice League

shadar wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:

erikphandel wrote: Seems like only me and kikass2014 hated it around here...

welp at least it had Wonder Woman reflecting a hail of gunfire from a machine gun


There a few people who haven't watched it yet, I believe.


I haven't watched it yet, and probably won't until I can stream it, but I don't mind spoilers. I seek out all the spoilers I can find before I watch.

I find the anticipation of seeing things I've read about (given they are always different than I imagine) is better than any surprise that might come from not knowing.

And let's face it, the plot and suspense in most superhero movies is pretty underrated anyway. We know the good guys will win somehow. The bad guy will be vanquished or at least driven away in a scene that involves huge amounts of CGI. There will be the obligatory scenes of various kinds that all movies of this genre have.

The fun for me is in enjoying the chemistry of the actors. You can't really describe or spoil that with words, at least for me.

Shadar


I have to say that yes, there are points where you know what the next line of dialog will be. At least I did. Batman mentioned that if Superman doesn't react well after being brought back, he'd have to bring out the "big guns". I was surprised that one of my friends did not 100% know exactly what he was talking about, as I sure did.

I don't think anything was surprising in the movie. But then I don't remember that last time a Super-hero movie actually SURPRISED me. I do think SEEING the Hulk beat the stuffing out of Loki ("Puny God") and not knowing it was going to happen is just sheer comedy gold. It's hilarious after that .... BUT, nothing quite beats that first time seeing it. There are a few moments like that in the film,

A friend who had not seen BvS or Wonder Woman saw it and liked it. I missed seeing it with him. He was fairly firmly "meh" about Gal Godot as Wonder Woman before going into the movie.

My other friend said that when she first showed up he let out an exclamation and kept it up during her first scene. SEEING her as Wonder Woman totally changed his mind. Now he REALLY wants to see Wonder Woman.

JL took him from him actively resisting watching Wonder Woman to being pretty avid to see it. She was his second favorite in the movie (after Flash). Well, third if you count Alfred. ;-)

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23 Nov 2017 02:24 - 23 Nov 2017 02:25 #57273 by ChaozCloud
ChaozCloud replied the topic: Justice League
The movie was alright, I can definitely understand why people wouldn't like it.
Overall slightly better than Batman vs Superman (worse action though) and worse than Wonder Woman. So 2nd best DCU movie, but that's not saying a lot.

Wonder Woman gave me hope that this would be a great movie, but I guess that was just a fluke.
Last Edit: 23 Nov 2017 02:25 by ChaozCloud.

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27 Nov 2017 22:53 #57324 by Random321
Random321 replied the topic: Justice League
I'm not likely to see this in theaters. I wait for streaming for almost all movies these days. However, I am curious can someone reveal if the "Bruce looking at cape and feminine looking red boots" scene from the teasers appeared in the movie? Was it a hologram? Cut? Not at all SG? What clue should have given away that it was not SG?

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27 Nov 2017 23:00 #57326 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Justice League
That scene (of Bruce and the red cape) is not in the movie.

Quite a few scenes from what I remember, that were in the trailers, weren't in the movie.

The official report is Whedon re-shot approx. 15-20%. However, others say he re-shot a LOT more (as high as 80%). A tell-tell sign of what he did re-shoot, is Cavill's legendary CGI lip. All the scenes with his deformed face are re-shoots by Whedon (and this amounts to pretty much all the Superman footage I think).

Peace.

/K
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27 Nov 2017 23:12 #57327 by Random321
Random321 replied the topic: Justice League

kikass2014 wrote: That scene (of Bruce and the red cape) is not in the movie.

Quite a few scenes from what I remember, that were in the trailers, weren't in the movie.

The official report is Whedon re-shot approx. 15-20%. However, others say he re-shot a LOT more (as high as 80%). A tell-tell sign of what he did re-shoot, is Cavill's legendary CGI lip. All the scenes with his deformed face are re-shoots by Whedon (and this amounts to pretty much all the Superman footage I think).

Peace.

/K


Thanks Kikass. I guess I'm on board with the "release the Zack Snyder cut" fan requests then.

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27 Nov 2017 23:12 - 27 Nov 2017 23:27 #57328 by kikass2014
kikass2014 replied the topic: Justice League
Welp, its that time again. Kikass’s review of the latest DC fail..I mean endeavour (twice in one year too boot).

Here it is.......Justice League is bad.

Not Suicide Squad bad. That was complete garbage.

Not BvS bad. That film isn’t even a film.

But it is bad.

Why is it bad? Because the main glaring thing that comes out of this film (and franchise) is that NOBODY CARES. There is no thought or planning that has gone into any of these films, since, arguably, Man of Steel.

As someone I heard say, DC stands for “Don’t Care”.

Everything in this film is just “Bleh”. Not only is the plot super generic, it’s a complete rip off of The Avengers (the film this JL sooooo wishes it could be). In fact it is also the EXACT SAME PLOT AS MAN OF STEEL!

Let that sink in for a minute.

That’s right. In the space of 4 films in the DCEU, not counting SS, we have had the SAME plot TWICE.

That’s how much of a shit the producers at DC/WB give.

They can’t even be bothered to come up with something even slightly original.

Here’s an idea WB. You OWN DC. Go into their vaults and just randomly pick stories from the 200+ years combined age of your “Trinity”.

So the story is generic bad guy demon (Steppenwolf) wants to turn Earth into his home world. We get little to none in terms of character or motivation for this guy (just brief exposition dumps). He looks horrible with some bad character design and CGI. Ultimately, as an audience, I didn’t give a crap about him. He projected no menace, no threat whatsoever.

The Flash is horribly miscast. Ezra Millar is terrible as The Flash. And his character is defined by his role – the comic relief. Grant Gustin does a FAR superior job as The Flash.

Aquaman is, well, who gives a crap. He was a lame character in the comics, with a lame power set. Now he is transformed into some angst, surfer dude.

Batman may as well rename himself to Fatman. I don’t know what happened, but man has Ben piled on the pounds. The one thing I would say about Batman in this film is that he actually does some DETECTIVE work. And he doesn’t murder a bajillion people. That was good to see.

Cyborg. Cyborg????? Who thought this would be a good character to bring to the screen? Again, hardly anything is given of him, and his character is poorly defined. So ultimately you don’t give a hoot about him.

And finally, the great Wonder Woman. This is the prime example of why her film was such a success IN SPITE of her, not because of her. Where were all the “fans” of that film? Oh that’s right, there was no femi-nazi/SJW media campaign pushing her in this. That’s why this film took less in its opening weekend then X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Let’s pause and let that also that sink in for a minute.

I’ve said it before, Gal Gadot is very attractive person, and seems like a nice one too in interviews. However, she is a terrible actress. Not only that, despite the fact that she did actually make an effort, she just does not come across as Wonder Woman physically. Her performance is atrocious. It's like her character is "just stand there and look pretty".

All this is compounded by some terrible CGI, rushed narrative, choppy editing. Seriously, did this film REALLY cost $300 million dollars to make???

I could go on, and on, about this (not as much as I could about BvS, or Suicide Squad for that matter, because in all fairness, JL is better then both of those combined), but I will leave it at that.

Please, for the love of all things WB just reboot this damn thing!

It is a complete disaster.

Coco beat you at the box-office in your SECOND WEEK of release!

DC Fans deserve a lot better than the crud you have churned out thus far.

Peace.

/K

P.S. I nearly forgot. The one true positive is that Superman was finally Superman :) Positive, powerful, bright (man, they really turned up the colors of his costume, at least the best they could do. the guy was practically glowing compared to his previous ventures). That was nice to see tbh :)
Last Edit: 27 Nov 2017 23:27 by kikass2014.
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