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Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

20 Dec 2017 15:19 #57779 by Markiehoe
They hire the good looking actress Gwendoline Christie to play Captain Phasma in the new Star Wars movie The Force Awakens.

Then cover her head to toe in armor.
Why not just hire the stunt woman and dub in her voice.

After a lot of hype her character is completely upstaged by this guy.


OK, she'll be featured prominently in The Last Jedi


And....not so much.
I am sure the actress got paid but the way her character was pushed aside.
Just a throwaway.
I'd be a little upset.

However!
We did get this


That was pretty awesome.

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20 Dec 2017 17:16 #57781 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I was just speaking about this today with a friend lol :D

Why even bother hiring Gwen when Capt. Fail is just a shinny toy??????

Useless, but then again so was a lot The Last Jedi lol So many things wrong with it (and tbh a few things that were awesome).

Nine-and-Done for me with SW (and that's only because I'm a completion-ist at heart).

Peace.

/K
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20 Dec 2017 21:47 #57784 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

kikass2014 wrote: I was just speaking about this today with a friend lol :D

...

Nine-and-Done for me with SW (and that's only because I'm a completion-ist at heart).

Peace.

/K


A lot of people said that about Star Trek when the original actors, characters and story-lines disappeared. I had trouble with that because the original series was from my childhood.

But The Next Generation was pretty enjoyable as were other Star Trek spinoffs. (I wasn't, however, so fond of seeing the original characters replaced in the movies with their childish analogs.)

I think there is a lot of good storytelling left in the Star Wars universe as well, even if the original characters are gone.

But then, I was in my thirties when Star Wars began, so I wasn't as attached to the characters. My kids were though.

I think most of the disappointment regarding the Last Jedi comes from Gen-Xers who are seeing their childhood finally end. As a much older person, all I can say is: "Get used to it." Everything either dies or gets rebooted eventually. That includes favorite actors.

Shadar

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21 Dec 2017 11:41 - 21 Dec 2017 11:44 #57794 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

I think most of the disappointment regarding the Last Jedi comes from Gen-Xers who are seeing their childhood finally end. As a much older person, all I can say is: "Get used to it." Everything either dies or gets rebooted eventually. That includes favorite actors.


In general I think you are right. But the thing is, I've never had a problem with reboots and passing of the torch. That's fine.

Even when the internet is going bonkers about Luke in this film, I actually don't think there is anything really wrong with his character, or his arc tbh.

However, the film does suffer from some big problems, namely one WHOLE section shouldn't even be in there. Well I guess this is spoilers tagged.

The whole sub-plot involving Finn and Rose on Canto Bight is pointless and a distraction. Tonally it feels like it belongs in another film. Not to mention the forced animal rights/cruelty message rammed in there. Tbh Rose in general didn't do anything for me. In fact, she actually RUINED what would of have been a great character moment for Finn, by "saving" him and giving that bs speech about "love".

Laura Dern's character, while providing arguably one of THE GREATEST cinematic moments I have experienced in a long time, really should have been set up more. There was no connection to her, despite this being Leia's BEST FRIEND forever.

Speaking of Leia. That whole "force thing" she does, didn't really work. I understand what they were going for, but the execution was dumb and looked lame. Instead, why not have her be trapped in some rubble and she uses her force to move thing out the way? You achieve the same thing - give fans some fan service by having Leia use the force, and also it feels more acceptable then the Starlord scene we got.

And Capt. Phasma. What a waste. I wouldn't mind or notice so much, but they have BUILT HER UP to be this badass in TWO films now. And she didn't do ANYTHING of note in either. This is fine if that is the character, but why build her up in the marketing if not just SJW-pandering/toy marketing?

Pretty much everything else, I can understand and am fine with. I actually LOVED the twist with Snoke. That was genius. Rey's parents reveal, not so much, but I'm thinking that could easily be retconned if need be. If they don't, meh then I guess it still makes sense, if a little disappointing.

There is a difference between something being "wrong" or "dumb", and something being "that's not what I would have done".

Most of the complaints I think, are from fans who are pissed that it's not THEIR version of the film they are seeing.

So, to summerise, I think the film as a whole was not nearly as bad as people are making out. There were two stand out sequences for me. The first was the "throne room" scene. That was just sheer brilliance imo. In fact, the plot with Rey and Kylo (who I think was by far the best character and actor in the film) was really well done.

The second was Luke and his finale on Crait. The setup and fake out was brilliant.

But just to touch generally on the saga, Episode 9 will be the last for me. There is really nowhere they can go (and I am really going to see Episode 9, JUST TO SEE where they DO go). Creatively Star Wars is dead.

Boxed in by rabid fans who won't except anything outside their preconcieved ideas of - Rebels; Empire; Lightsabers; The Force; Jedi and Sith.

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 21 Dec 2017 11:44 by kikass2014.

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21 Dec 2017 15:54 - 21 Dec 2017 15:54 #57798 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

kikass2014 wrote: However, the film does suffer from some big problems, namely one WHOLE section shouldn't even be in there. Well I guess this is spoilers tagged.

The whole sub-plot involving Finn and Rose on Canto Bight is pointless and a distraction. Tonally it feels like it belongs in another film. Not to mention the forced animal rights/cruelty message rammed in there. Tbh Rose in general didn't do anything for me. In fact, she actually RUINED what would of have been a great character moment for Finn, by "saving" him and giving that bs speech about "love".

Laura Dern's character, while providing arguably one of THE GREATEST cinematic moments I have experienced in a long time, really should have been set up more. There was no connection to her, despite this being Leia's BEST FRIEND forever.


I didn't mind the sub-plot per-se. In actual fact I liked the whole casino set-up and even the wird dialogue between Finn and the code-breaker on the fact that outside of the Rebellion/Resistance there's an entire galaxy of people that are more than willing to side with whoever is going to win. My personal problem is that the entire story-arc is stupidity-induced! Maybe the admiral discussed her evacuation plan only with her close staff, but she knew that Poe is a hot-head and he was still the best pilot around, so why did she keep him in the dark? Also, is it really possible that Poe didn't notice the transports being fuelled and primed? Still, the point is that the entire Finn and Rose arc was caused by the fact that both Poe and the Admiral decided that they knew better and went their own way without any regard for what was going on around them.

Speaking of Leia. That whole "force thing" she does, didn't really work. I understand what they were going for, but the execution was dumb and looked lame. Instead, why not have her be trapped in some rubble and she uses her force to move thing out the way? You achieve the same thing - give fans some fan service by having Leia use the force, and also it feels more acceptable then the Starlord scene we got.


My personal problem with that scene is the same I got with Rei being able to use advanced Force tricks and wielding a lightsaber like a pro with little to no training. It's true that in A New Hope and Empire Strike Back Luke did a lot of stuff with the Force, but it often seemed that the Force was mostly about improving some natural aptitudes (shooting, piloting, etc.), whereas Rei and Leia did things that were completely out of the realm of normal.

Most of the complaints I think, are from fans who are pissed that it's not THEIR version of the film they are seeing.


Yes and no, I think that one of the major point I got from the complains I read was that there are a crapton on relevant elements we know precious little about and they're relevant to bridge the gap between the original trilogy and these new movies. This particulary egregious in the case of Han which went from egotistical scoundrel to hero in the old movie, but was back to square one at the beginning of Force Awakens. It's obvious that a lot of time passed and a lot of shit happened, but the big question is "what exactly". Force Awakens didn't provide any meaningful explanation and The Last Jedi added precious little, except for Luke. A lot of people (apparetly including Mark Hamill) didn't enjoy this portraial of Luke as a bitter old man and I can see that. Still I think that his story arc worked and made sense (except for his unsaid admission that he never read the old Jedi texts; that was wrong).
Back to the main point, I think that the entire problem with this movie, and the Star Wars franchise in general, is that it has grown into a humongous beast since the '80s. In the original movie the audicen knew precious little about the Emperor (heck they never even name him on screen), but that was okay. He was a McGuffin and nobody cared. Today, the audience expects information to be delivered on some level and they don't accept to suspend their disbelief and wait hoping that someone will pick up these loose storylines somewhere along the line.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
Last edit: 21 Dec 2017 15:54 by Woodclaw.

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21 Dec 2017 17:41 - 21 Dec 2017 17:42 #57801 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Maybe Star Wars in fated to cross over with superheroes. To have characters with fully evolved superhuman abilities. Perhaps we'll see more and more of that and in different ways. Seemingly the Force has become very malleable.

I'm OK with that given Star Wars going forward has been mostly untethered from its past. Rei with superpowers definitely works for me.

Shadar

Woodclaw wrote:

kikass2014 wrote: However, the film does suffer from some big problems, namely one WHOLE section shouldn't even be in there. Well I guess this is spoilers tagged.

The whole sub-plot involving Finn and Rose on Canto Bight is pointless and a distraction. Tonally it feels like it belongs in another film. Not to mention the forced animal rights/cruelty message rammed in there. Tbh Rose in general didn't do anything for me. In fact, she actually RUINED what would of have been a great character moment for Finn, by "saving" him and giving that bs speech about "love".

Laura Dern's character, while providing arguably one of THE GREATEST cinematic moments I have experienced in a long time, really should have been set up more. There was no connection to her, despite this being Leia's BEST FRIEND forever.


I didn't mind the sub-plot per-se. In actual fact I liked the whole casino set-up and even the wird dialogue between Finn and the code-breaker on the fact that outside of the Rebellion/Resistance there's an entire galaxy of people that are more than willing to side with whoever is going to win. My personal problem is that the entire story-arc is stupidity-induced! Maybe the admiral discussed her evacuation plan only with her close staff, but she knew that Poe is a hot-head and he was still the best pilot around, so why did she keep him in the dark? Also, is it really possible that Poe didn't notice the transports being fuelled and primed? Still, the point is that the entire Finn and Rose arc was caused by the fact that both Poe and the Admiral decided that they knew better and went their own way without any regard for what was going on around them.

Speaking of Leia. That whole "force thing" she does, didn't really work. I understand what they were going for, but the execution was dumb and looked lame. Instead, why not have her be trapped in some rubble and she uses her force to move thing out the way? You achieve the same thing - give fans some fan service by having Leia use the force, and also it feels more acceptable then the Starlord scene we got.


My personal problem with that scene is the same I got with Rei being able to use advanced Force tricks and wielding a lightsaber like a pro with little to no training. It's true that in A New Hope and Empire Strike Back Luke did a lot of stuff with the Force, but it often seemed that the Force was mostly about improving some natural aptitudes (shooting, piloting, etc.), whereas Rei and Leia did things that were completely out of the realm of normal.

Most of the complaints I think, are from fans who are pissed that it's not THEIR version of the film they are seeing.


Yes and no, I think that one of the major point I got from the complains I read was that there are a crapton on relevant elements we know precious little about and they're relevant to bridge the gap between the original trilogy and these new movies. This particulary egregious in the case of Han which went from egotistical scoundrel to hero in the old movie, but was back to square one at the beginning of Force Awakens. It's obvious that a lot of time passed and a lot of shit happened, but the big question is "what exactly". Force Awakens didn't provide any meaningful explanation and The Last Jedi added precious little, except for Luke. A lot of people (apparetly including Mark Hamill) didn't enjoy this portraial of Luke as a bitter old man and I can see that. Still I think that his story arc worked and made sense (except for his unsaid admission that he never read the old Jedi texts; that was wrong).
Back to the main point, I think that the entire problem with this movie, and the Star Wars franchise in general, is that it has grown into a humongous beast since the '80s. In the original movie the audicen knew precious little about the Emperor (heck they never even name him on screen), but that was okay. He was a McGuffin and nobody cared. Today, the audience expects information to be delivered on some level and they don't accept to suspend their disbelief and wait hoping that someone will pick up these loose storylines somewhere along the line.

Last edit: 21 Dec 2017 17:42 by shadar.

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21 Dec 2017 19:25 #57802 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

shadar wrote: Maybe Star Wars in fated to cross over with superheroes. To have characters with fully evolved superhuman abilities. Perhaps we'll see more and more of that and in different ways. Seemingly the Force has become very malleable.

I'm OK with that given Star Wars going forward has been mostly untethered from its past. Rei with superpowers definitely works for me.

Shadar


Yes and no.
At its core Star Wars has a superheroic vibe, but a very subdued one. Jedi and Sith are basically low-level superheroes or wizards in a setting that is otherwise devoided of superpowers. If we look at the past the most "in your face" power ever shown were the "sith lightings" used by the Emperor and by the standards of most super-heroic effect that was rather tame. My big worry is that the Force will become the "get out of jail" card, a trick used by the writers to justify any otherwise ass-crap bit of writing. So far the Force was one of the prime movers behind the Star Wars plots, not it seem that it's becoming a way to solve the plot.
I've always enjoyed reading fantasy in all its forms, but ever since I started reading with a bit of a critical eye I noticed that one of the best ways to separate good fantasy writers from bad ones is how they handle magic (as in "any very cool, but totally unexplained power that this setting has"). Even we they're not explaining how it works in detail, good writers tend to add some implied limits to magic and they don't rely on it to solve the plot or too cover plot holes. Bad writers, on the other hand, often focus so hard on the magic aspect of their worlds that they forget about everything else.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

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21 Dec 2017 19:34 #57803 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Captain Phasma in The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

I didn't mind the sub-plot per-se. In actual fact I liked the whole casino set-up and even the wird dialogue between Finn and the code-breaker on the fact that outside of the Rebellion/Resistance there's an entire galaxy of people that are more than willing to side with whoever is going to win.


This is fine. I thought it was good that the universe is expanding beyond its “good and bad” dynamic and showing shades of grey. And it worked also in showing up the naivety of both Rose and Finn, by showing them that all those “rich lot” didn’t just get rich selling to the First Order, but also to their side too.

My personal problem is that the entire story-arc is stupidity-induced! Maybe the admiral discussed her evacuation plan only with her close staff, but she knew that Poe is a hot-head and he was still the best pilot around, so why did she keep him in the dark? Also, is it really possible that Poe didn't notice the transports being fuelled and primed?


I took this as being another lesson in leadership for Poe. Vice Admiral Holdo had a plan and she executed it. Poe should have just had faith in her as the leader. Instead, he decided to lead and executes a plan with Rose and Finn. Which fails.

I totally get what you say, why didn’t Holdo just let Poe in on her plan. But I put this down to how execs don’t neccessirly tell workers their business strategy. In the context of the film, it was established that Holdo didn’t entirely respect Poe (“Flyboy”) so I can understand her actions through that. This would have all played out a lot better had the character of the vice-admiral been further developed.

Some of the stuff that happened in Last Jedi, felt like it belonged in the third movie.

Still, the point is that the entire Finn and Rose arc was caused by the fact that both Poe and the Admiral decided that they knew better and went their own way without any regard for what was going on around them.


I don’t mind that they gave Finn something to do. Just that what they did was awfully executed, both pacing wise and tonally.

My personal problem with that scene is the same I got with Rei being able to use advanced Force tricks and wielding a lightsaber like a pro with little to no training.


I’m probably in the minority, but I had no problems whatsoever with Rey and her power-level. Granted, I did expect some sort of explanation in this one, and none came. Though Snoke did mention about the dark power of Kylo naturally having a light-side equivalent (Rey). Maybe we will get a better explanation in the final part, or not. If we don’t and that’s the road they go with it, meh, it makes sense thematically and structurally to me tbh.

It's true that in A New Hope and Empire Strike Back Luke did a lot of stuff with the Force, but it often seemed that the Force was mostly about improving some natural aptitudes (shooting, piloting, etc.), whereas Rei and Leia did things that were completely out of the realm of normal.


With regards to Leia, I had no problem with them having her use the Force. In the time between, its natural to assume she would have received some instruction.

It’s the manner with which they chose to show that expression that misses the mark imo.

I think that one of the major point I got from the complains I read was that there are a crapton on relevant elements we know precious little about and they're relevant to bridge the gap between the original trilogy and these new movies. This particulary egregious in the case of Han which went from egotistical scoundrel to hero in the old movie, but was back to square one at the beginning of Force Awakens. It's obvious that a lot of time passed and a lot of shit happened, but the big question is "what exactly". Force Awakens didn't provide any meaningful explanation and The Last Jedi added precious little, except for Luke.


I agree to a certain extent. There was a lot set up in Force Awakens that seemingly didn’t pay off. However, I would say in a large number of those instances, its more the fact that they didn’t pay off the way THAT particular fan wanted them too.

Today, the audience expects information to be delivered on some level and they don't accept to suspend their disbelief and wait hoping that someone will pick up these loose storylines somewhere along the line.


With regards to Star Wars, I agree. It has become this huge, almost cult like thing. And its also become like a poisoned chalice to a certain degree.

Fans lambasted Force Awakens for being a rehash of A New Hope.

The Last Jedi does something different, and fans bash it for not being “Star Wars” anymore.

And that there is the problem. Who do you please? The old generation or the prequel newbies? Or try for both? How do you do that? What do you do?

This is the only reason I am willing to give Episode 9 a chance, to see what they come up with.

Because story-wise, it’s a dead end. Snoke is dead, Rey’s parents are no one, Kylo Ren is not intimidating enough to be a villain and his backstory has been explained. Han dead, Luke gone, and the Alliance consists of a handful of people squatting on the Millenium Falcon.

At least Force Awakens ended with some really juicy elements to keep you hyped for the next one.

Peace.

/K
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