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Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

24 Jul 2018 10:22 #60326 by JAG81
Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER was created by JAG81
Hey all,
A new trailer for Alita: Battle Angel recently dropped. Liking this trailer more than the first (I still liked that one too). This looks freakin' awesome, can't wait!



Enjoy
JAG
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25 Jul 2018 07:08 #60340 by bionicskillz
Replied by bionicskillz on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
I loved this manga and read every entry except "Last Order" and this movie really turns me off. James Cameron was (so I read years ago) originally slated to make this. I'm kind of disappointed with the way this looks.

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25 Jul 2018 13:50 #60342 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
This looks pretty good!

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25 Jul 2018 14:23 #60343 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
I'm witholding judgement, but there are two elements that are rubbing me the wrong way. First, Alita is way too close to my uncanny valley, but this is something I can overlook. The second element is a bit more critical, in the original manga the general assumption was that no character was utterly good or evil: Doc Ido was a kind and compassionate man, but also a sadist; Vector (the bald black guy) was merciless bastard, who nonetheless helped others only because he felt it was worth it. From the dialogue, I fear they added in a very standardized "rebels vs evil empire" theme.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
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25 Jul 2018 21:25 #60344 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

Woodclaw wrote: I'm witholding judgement, but there are two elements that are rubbing me the wrong way. First, Alita is way too close to my uncanny valley, but this is something I can overlook. The second element is a bit more critical, in the original manga the general assumption was that no character was utterly good or evil: Doc Ido was a kind and compassionate man, but also a sadist; Vector (the bald black guy) was merciless bastard, who nonetheless helped others only because he felt it was worth it. From the dialogue, I fear they added in a very standardized "rebels vs evil empire" theme.


Hollywood has become a maker of fables (maybe they always were.)  Taken through that lens - it's rather hard for them to go off script thus making the 'rebels vs evil empire' inevitable.  Sadly as well, they seem to not want the audience to think all that much during the course of a movie.

"G'Kar: By G'Quan, I can't recall the last time I was in a fight like that! No moral ambiguity, no hopeless battle against ancient and
overwhelming forces! They were the bad guys, as you say, and we were the
good guys. And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor."

That being said and expectations aside, I'm looking forward to the reviews and possibly to see it (I don't spur of the moment anything anymore which is likely why I'm out of the demographic that movies are sold to.)  Cameron can usually make a good movie (even if it's only half a good movie like Avatar.)  Sci Fi begs suspension of disbelief whether that be technology or idiotic politics.  If it's really bad, the reviews will bear that out and there's always subscription services and some patience to see it later.
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26 Jul 2018 00:33 #60345 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
From the trailer, I would say it looks pretty good.

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26 Jul 2018 00:43 #60346 by steelknight3000
Replied by steelknight3000 on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
Am I crazy or did I read a story about this movie 12+ years ago on the old forums? And that they announced a 2019 release date back then?

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26 Jul 2018 00:47 #60347 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

steelknight3000 wrote: Am I crazy or did I read a story about this movie 12+ years ago on the old forums? And that they announced a 2019 release date back then?


You aren't crazy.  Cameron started the concept of this project in 2000 from what I've read.

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26 Jul 2018 17:05 #60354 by bionicskillz
Replied by bionicskillz on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
I think Jessica Alba was in the running to be Alita. That would of been real cool.
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27 Jul 2018 02:29 #60367 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
Interesting take on the character and manga from a fan:

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27 Jul 2018 09:15 #60373 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

Starforge wrote: Interesting take on the character and manga from a fan:


This is a pretty accurate analysis of the potential "character pitfalls" of this project. I admit I never really considered the "doll" angle because I started reading the comic from the 5th Italian issues (first part of book #3 of the original), where Alita has already moved on for the first time.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

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27 Jul 2018 21:18 #60383 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
I've heard of Alita, but I never read the manga.

The first trailer left me totally disinterested.

This new one looks a lot better.  I think I need to see some of the action scenes better.  It looks like they might be doing the speeded up action better than I've seen it done before.

Still nto sure why they just didn't do a kick-ass animated version of this in 2000 (the previous animated version could use some work).

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27 Jul 2018 21:22 #60385 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I've heard of Alita, but I never read the manga.

The first trailer left me totally disinterested.

This new one looks a lot better.  I think I need to see some of the action scenes better.  It looks like they might be doing the speeded up action better than I've seen it done before.

Still nto sure why they just didn't do a kick-ass animated version of this in 2000 (the previous animated version could use some work).


I had not either which is why I did a little digging to see what the story was about.  As to not producing it in 2000, part of what I dug up suggested Cameron hadn't worked on it earlier simply because the technology to do what he wanted wasn't available at the time.

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27 Jul 2018 21:47 #60387 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

Starforge wrote:

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I've heard of Alita, but I never read the manga.

The first trailer left me totally disinterested.

This new one looks a lot better.  I think I need to see some of the action scenes better.  It looks like they might be doing the speeded up action better than I've seen it done before.

Still nto sure why they just didn't do a kick-ass animated version of this in 2000 (the previous animated version could use some work).


I had not either which is why I did a little digging to see what the story was about.  As to not producing it in 2000, part of what I dug up suggested Cameron hadn't worked on it earlier simply because the technology to do what he wanted wasn't available at the time.


My point is that the technology DID exist.  He could have animated it and told his story perfectly well.

But he needs it to be live action.  There's this feeling that Live action > Animation.  With all the live action remakes of animation now, it only underscores this more. Super Hero movies only took off once we could do them via live action despite there being some really awesome animated super-hero stories.

It's something i've been pondering awhile.  It's probably mostly just part of the western thought that animation is for kids, and a bit of the CGI fad, but I'm wondering if it's also that some NEED their fantasty less abstract?  That's the part (which feeds back into the 'for kids' part) that interests me.

After all movies are more popular than the books they're made from.  It takes a lot less effort to just watch a movie.  Is there a similar thing with animation vs live action?

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27 Jul 2018 22:08 #60388 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

Starforge wrote:

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I've heard of Alita, but I never read the manga.

The first trailer left me totally disinterested.

This new one looks a lot better.  I think I need to see some of the action scenes better.  It looks like they might be doing the speeded up action better than I've seen it done before.

Still nto sure why they just didn't do a kick-ass animated version of this in 2000 (the previous animated version could use some work).


I had not either which is why I did a little digging to see what the story was about.  As to not producing it in 2000, part of what I dug up suggested Cameron hadn't worked on it earlier simply because the technology to do what he wanted wasn't available at the time.


My point is that the technology DID exist.  He could have animated it and told his story perfectly well.

But he needs it to be live action.  There's this feeling that Live action > Animation.  With all the live action remakes of animation now, it only underscores this more. Super Hero movies only took off once we could do them via live action despite there being some really awesome animated super-hero stories.

It's something i've been pondering awhile.  It's probably mostly just part of the western thought that animation is for kids, and a bit of the CGI fad, but I'm wondering if it's also that some NEED their fantasty less abstract?  That's the part (which feeds back into the 'for kids' part) that interests me.

After all movies are more popular than the books they're made from.  It takes a lot less effort to just watch a movie.  Is there a similar thing with animation vs live action?


Which makes we wonder why (assuming its true) that this is mostly a Western thing? I don't have a decent hypothesis for that except to say that even in traditional Asian theater, the characters were so heavily costumed and made up and masked as to largely hide the actor.

Western theater always brought the actor to the forefront with a minimum of costuming.

But I don't understand the background of that difference, but those theatrical traditions may be linked to the Western need for live action to convey emotions properly. 

Interesting subject...

Shadar

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27 Jul 2018 22:30 #60389 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

shadar wrote:

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

Starforge wrote:

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: I've heard of Alita, but I never read the manga.

The first trailer left me totally disinterested.

This new one looks a lot better.  I think I need to see some of the action scenes better.  It looks like they might be doing the speeded up action better than I've seen it done before.

Still nto sure why they just didn't do a kick-ass animated version of this in 2000 (the previous animated version could use some work).


I had not either which is why I did a little digging to see what the story was about.  As to not producing it in 2000, part of what I dug up suggested Cameron hadn't worked on it earlier simply because the technology to do what he wanted wasn't available at the time.


My point is that the technology DID exist.  He could have animated it and told his story perfectly well.

But he needs it to be live action.  There's this feeling that Live action > Animation.  With all the live action remakes of animation now, it only underscores this more. Super Hero movies only took off once we could do them via live action despite there being some really awesome animated super-hero stories.

It's something i've been pondering awhile.  It's probably mostly just part of the western thought that animation is for kids, and a bit of the CGI fad, but I'm wondering if it's also that some NEED their fantasty less abstract?  That's the part (which feeds back into the 'for kids' part) that interests me.

After all movies are more popular than the books they're made from.  It takes a lot less effort to just watch a movie.  Is there a similar thing with animation vs live action?


Which makes we wonder why (assuming its true) that this is mostly a Western thing? I don't have a decent hypothesis for that except to say that even in traditional Asian theater, the characters were so heavily costumed and made up and masked as to largely hide the actor.

Western theater always brought the actor to the forefront with a minimum of costuming.

But I don't understand the background of that difference, but those theatrical traditions may be linked to the Western need for live action to convey emotions properly. 

Interesting subject...

Shadar


I really don't know much about Japanese culture, but I find this interesting.

top grossing movies in japan:  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_Japan

The top grossing movie in Japan is Spirited Away, which is one of the best animated films of all time, and everyone should see it.  (Really, it's fantastic.)

The top Japanese productions (red dot) are animated: Spirited Away, Your Name, Howl's Moving Castle, Princess Mononoke, Ponyo, The Wind Rises.  IT looks like Antactica is the top grossing Japanese live action film.  Oh, shit, missed "Bayside Shakedown 2". ;-)   It's still behind 5 animated films, as Frozen is the #2 foreign Film in Japan.

Compare to the united states:

www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/d.../cumulative/all-time

Top is #9 w/ Incredibles 2.    And the live action Beauty and the Beast smashes the animated one.  Next animated film is Finding Dory.  Then Shrek 2.  There's also a tonal difference in the movies. Spirited Away is for children, but it's also a deep movie, more more so than Incredibles 2 or Shrek 2. The Wind Rises isn't a children's movie.  Your Name seems more young adult. Howl's Moving Castle is the best analog to the American top animated films.

Interesting that only sequels to animated flicks are in the top 20.

But there are other differences in the movies than just animation vs live action too, it just that Japan seems more willing to watch stories told that way.

I'm just facinated by this, and I don't really know what to make of it, other than it obviously exists.

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27 Jul 2018 22:31 #60390 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:
My point is that the technology DID exist.  He could have animated it and told his story perfectly well.

But he needs it to be live action.  There's this feeling that Live action > Animation.  With all the live action remakes of animation now, it only underscores this more. Super Hero movies only took off once we could do them via live action despite there being some really awesome animated super-hero stories.

It's something i've been pondering awhile.  It's probably mostly just part of the western thought that animation is for kids, and a bit of the CGI fad, but I'm wondering if it's also that some NEED their fantasty less abstract?  That's the part (which feeds back into the 'for kids' part) that interests me.

After all movies are more popular than the books they're made from.  It takes a lot less effort to just watch a movie.  Is there a similar thing with animation vs live action?


Possibly.  It's rare, however, for animation to really look all that well.  Yes, you can do the stories and in some cases they have been done well, but the backdrops and characters usually tend to be cheap at best.  This could be another reason for animation being prevalent elsewhere - cost.  Compare the visuals of the trailer with any animated movie you can find and I'll be surprised if you can get anywhere close.

Of course, one can postulate that visuals don't make a good story and that's true, but they do add to the suspension of disbelief, the overall atmosphere, the wonder.  It's a movie - 2+ hours of entertainment and the visuals are a big part of that.

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28 Jul 2018 01:19 #60392 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
I have a number of friends who are into Japanese Anime, but I personally find the art styles coupled with over the top stereotyped hyper sexual cookie cutter characters make them difficult to watch.  About the only one I truly liked (not that I've seen them all to judge) was Moribito:  Guardian of the Spirit (but, then, that one WAS based on a set of novels making the characters likely have more depth than usual.)  I've tried Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist and a few others that people recommended but just couldn't get into them.  Even Moribito, however, I would hardly consider visually interesting - the story was good enough to ignore that and it didn't suffer as much from the stereotypical art styles.

I like most of DC's animated content but again wouldn't call any of it visually interesting.

Movies like Final Fantasy were an interesting blend of animated live action but even that doesn't remotely compare to the settings shown in the trailer here though it might be interesting to see what they could do with that type of technology today.

Interesting that the live action Beauty beat the animated.  I guess singing talent is also not something that is necessary since the live version pretty much stunk by comparison.

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28 Jul 2018 05:08 #60393 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER

Starforge wrote: I have a number of friends who are into Japanese Anime, but I personally find the art styles coupled with over the top stereotyped hyper sexual cookie cutter characters make them difficult to watch.  About the only one I truly liked (not that I've seen them all to judge) was Moribito:  Guardian of the Spirit (but, then, that one WAS based on a set of novels making the characters likely have more depth than usual.)  I've tried Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist and a few others that people recommended but just couldn't get into them.  Even Moribito, however, I would hardly consider visually interesting - the story was good enough to ignore that and it didn't suffer as much from the stereotypical art styles.

I like most of DC's animated content but again wouldn't call any of it visually interesting.

Movies like Final Fantasy were an interesting blend of animated live action but even that doesn't remotely compare to the settings shown in the trailer here though it might be interesting to see what they could do with that type of technology today.

Interesting that the live action Beauty beat the animated.  I guess singing talent is also not something that is necessary since the live version pretty much stunk by comparison.


I feel like i've hijacked part of the thread.  I'll cut it out after this unless people find it interesting.

Your reply is sortof inline with one of my theories "it's easier to watch live action than the more abstract animation, therefore it's more popular".

As for your reply, it seems you are conflating TV animation, with ALL animation, which isn't simply true.  It's like judging movie special effects off 1970's Dr. Who, or a cheap web production today, instead of a blockbuster movies CGI.  Comparable animation would be any of the modern Pixar Films (Coco, Incredibles 2, etc).

If you didn't find Coco visually interesting, then I'll have to chock it up to "we have different tastes' (and there isn't anything wrong with that).

As for Anime, I get what you are saying, but don't conflate content with what is possible.  Nor is it all that way.  For example, here's the trailer for Spirited Away (the top grossing film in Japan), which I find simply gorgeous and stunning.  It would be hard to duplicate what it does in live action.

Spirited Away was made for $19 Million in 2001.  (about $27M today, or probably 15% of what was spent on Battle Angel Alita)

 (It's not a Walt Disney film, they only did the American Voice-over.  I believe that they were forbidden to change a single frame or line from the movie.)

Google "Studio Ghibli".  I find all their films visually stunning and very heartwarming.  They're all utterly charming.

Mary and the Witches Flower was pretty fun, it's currently on the American Netflix.  I really liked some of it's action sequences.



For American Animation, most of the good stuff these days seems to be 3D animated.  The Pixar Films, How to Train Your Dragon, etc.

As for DC, their animated films are more visually intersting than their Cinematic Films. ;-)   It's not a high bar.  I will say Nolan's batman stunts are FANTASTIC.

Did I say that I haven't (up til now) liked Teen Titans Go?  Saw a free pre-screning.  Movie is hella fun.
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28 Jul 2018 08:15 #60395 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Alita: Battle Angel - NEW TRAILER
Appreciate the discussion.  I would say we have different tastes.  Maybe 'interesting' isn't the right word.  Perhaps immersive is.  Not all the animation I listed was TV based such as Final Fantasy but I get your point.  When I read a good book or watch a good movie I can lose myself in the story.  For a book, I visualize the scenes in my head.  A well done movie will have 2 hours go by in no time.  Watching animation degrades that for me as does poorly done CGI (I'm looking at you World of Warcraft.)  Heck, I've even stopped watching the fake 3D because unless it's filmed for it (like Avatar) it doesn't enhance my experience.

Those are all personal tastes, however.  Your mileage and tastes may vary.

Spirited Away reminds me more in style with Moribito with better animation (though, admittedly, it's been a few years since I watched it.)  Will have to check it out.  I'll have to also say that some of the films Disney has done with animation were quite good.  I'll have to turn in my man-card but I actually liked the original Beauty and the Beast (far more than the live version) as well as a number of the other animated musicals they came out with.  Same could be said for Shrek but for different reasons.

Thanks for the studio link - I'll check out some of their works.

The ONE place where I truly have found that I enjoy 'animation' (if that term applies and I'm not an expert on the genre / differences) is what they have done with video games.  Horizon: Zero Dawn, The ME series, Halo, etc.  Many of those were quite well done.

Drifting even farther off topic, however.  Now that I know a little more of the story of Alita, I'm hoping JC does it justice.

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