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Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

23 Jan 2020 22:45 #66575 by lfan
Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU? was created by lfan
Rumors of America Chavez (Miss America) role being cast for Dr Strange 2 are beginning to circulate:

www.cbr.com/report-doctor-strange-2-miss-america-chavez/

Hmm.....

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23 Jan 2020 23:48 #66577 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
Now we know why the Director left..

Marvel:
Hey Director, we want you to shoehorn in America Chavez

Director:
That makes no sense

Marvel:
Do it.

Director:
No
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24 Jan 2020 00:29 #66578 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
Yeah, Phase Four is definitely shaping up as the "woke" phase.   Eternal characters being gender-swapped and now this.

Maybe Marvel should look across the hall at the offices of Lucasfilm and see how that turned out for them.

Might be related or not, but Captain Marvel 2 was also announced, and looking for a "female director".

Wasn't Anna Boden a woman though?  Wonder why she isn't returning, considering that film made over a billion (yes, it did have the advantage of being sandwiched between the 2 biggest films of all time, directly leading into the biggest film of all time).  But still, wonder if that was creative differences?

Will be interesting to see how this phase goes for them.

Peace.

/K
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24 Jan 2020 02:13 #66579 by erikphandel
Replied by erikphandel on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh I can't stand America Chavez, I hope this isn't true. She and Captain Marvel represent everything wrong with modern Marvel comics

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24 Jan 2020 02:51 #66580 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

erikphandel wrote: uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh I can't stand America Chavez, I hope this isn't true. She and Captain Marvel represent everything wrong with modern Marvel comics


ok, I'll bite....,

care to elaborate why?

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24 Jan 2020 04:22 #66583 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

Markiehoe wrote: Now we know why the Director left..

Marvel:
Hey Director, we want you to shoehorn in America Chavez

Director:
That makes no sense

Marvel:
Do it.

Director:
No


I'm not saying that this isn't true,  or even that it's not a realistic take.

I will say, based on the scant reporting we have, assuming that this is the reason is pretty silly.  i.e. "now we know why the director left" vs "I wonder if this is why the director left".   Some of the takes here are a bit hyperbolic.

Also "shoe-horn in" and "makes no sense" ... the movie is called "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness".

Now I know some don't like Chavez (and let's all agree her comic wasn't the best thing) ... BUT she's probably now the pre-eminent multiversal character outside of Blink (and some of the other Exiles.).  So if you're writing a movie about the multiverse, she's now a logical character to show up, esp for a cameo.

I notice no one is complaining about Scarlet Witch being stuffed into the Dr. Strange Movie, And no one seems to get too mad about Hulk being stuffed into the Thor movie either.

Consider me skeptical about all this manufactured concern when we know very little aside from the director left and chavez _might_ be being cast for the movie.  (Well "left" as his name is still on the writing and he's still an EP.)
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24 Jan 2020 06:41 #66584 by Idylls
Replied by Idylls on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

lfan wrote:

erikphandel wrote: uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh I can't stand America Chavez, I hope this isn't true. She and Captain Marvel represent everything wrong with modern Marvel comics


ok, I'll bite....,

care to elaborate why?


They're not characters but writers token mouthpiece for their agenda. 
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24 Jan 2020 10:27 #66586 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

Markiehoe wrote: Now we know why the Director left..

Marvel:
Hey Director, we want you to shoehorn in America Chavez

Director:
That makes no sense

Marvel:
Do it.

Director:
No


I'm not saying that this isn't true,  or even that it's not a realistic take.

I will say, based on the scant reporting we have, assuming that this is the reason is pretty silly.  i.e. "now we know why the director left" vs "I wonder if this is why the director left".   Some of the takes here are a bit hyperbolic.

Also "shoe-horn in" and "makes no sense" ... the movie is called "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness".

Now I know some don't like Chavez (and let's all agree her comic wasn't the best thing) ... BUT she's probably now the pre-eminent multiversal character outside of Blink (and some of the other Exiles.).  So if you're writing a movie about the multiverse, she's now a logical character to show up, esp for a cameo.

I notice no one is complaining about Scarlet Witch being stuffed into the Dr. Strange Movie, And no one seems to get too mad about Hulk being stuffed into the Thor movie either.

Consider me skeptical about all this manufactured concern when we know very little aside from the director left and chavez _might_ be being cast for the movie.  (Well "left" as his name is still on the writing and he's still an EP.)



I was being satirical ;:)

Putting Scarlett Witch in the movie is a perfect choice as she is a "Magic" based character.
Remember there were no mutants in the MCU when she was created.

Hulk fit in Thor's movie perfectly  as the Grandmaster was assembling super, super powered figures for his gladiatorial games.

I am assuming that Dr. Strange is going to open up the MCU to Mutants where we will be able to get proper interesting heroes like Storm or Marvel Girl/ Phoenix.
Why an E list character like America Chavez gets a spot is beyond me.

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24 Jan 2020 14:17 #66589 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

Markiehoe wrote: I was being satirical ;:)

Putting Scarlett Witch in the movie is a perfect choice as she is a "Magic" based character.
Remember there were no mutants in the MCU when she was created.

Hulk fit in Thor's movie perfectly  as the Grandmaster was assembling super, super powered figures for his gladiatorial games.

I am assuming that Dr. Strange is going to open up the MCU to Mutants where we will be able to get proper interesting heroes like Storm or Marvel Girl/ Phoenix.
Why an E list character like America Chavez gets a spot is beyond me.


I get what you are saying but reading all the flack is somewhat humorous.  Just because she's gonna BE in the movie?  And that's just a rumor as of now.  Her level of involvement -- which could be nothing to significant -- hasn't even been confirmed.  It's not like she's been given a movie herself.

I think "E-list" is a little exaggerated as well.  Stilt Man is an E-list character.  Ultra Girl is an E-list character.  Spyke is an E-list character,  Joystick is E-List.....

I don't think anyone can be E-listed who's had her own book, been a member of a couple of teams (Ultimates, A-Force, Young Avengers that I know of) and is featured fairly prominently in Marvel animation.  I'll give you C-list, but not E-list :P

Besides, let's be honest, were the Guardians of the Galaxy THAT popular before the movies to the casual comic fan or the mainstream public in general?  The Eternals?  The InHumans?  Yet all of them got their own shows/movies. 

While I get the "agenda" comment for earlier, I view it more as the studios wanting diverse, interesting characters, not them pushing their social agendas.  They've consistently been doing that for years.  I mean, if you were to pick the top A-list character to usher in Phase III, would Black Panther be at the top of the list?  Prob not, but his story and background is different (diverse).  Also, in terms of characters, there is nothing more diverse than GG. 

I TOTALLY agree about not wanting the script to be filled with political or social commentary tripe that they cram down our throats  (like Supergirl tends to do), but c'mon this was just an announcement of the character being in the movie, which -- as ToT pointed out -- actually makes sense if they are going the Omniverse route.
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24 Jan 2020 15:02 - 24 Jan 2020 15:04 #66592 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

I TOTALLY agree about not wanting the script to be filled with political or social commentary tripe that they cram down our throats  (like Supergirl tends to do), but c'mon this was just an announcement of the character being in the movie, which -- as ToT pointed out -- actually makes sense if they are going the Omniverse route.


I agree with you on the bold part for sure, but surely you must view this as more then just it "makes sense".

To give an illustration, here are two, lesser known, female characters that would make MORE sense to be in Dr. Strange 2 -

- Amora the Enchantress, An Asgardian Goddess and immensely powerful magical sorcerer. Being backed by years of experience, she is one of Thor’s greatest and most powerful foes not only because of her immense power, but also because of him being her love interest.

- Magik, the younger sister of Colossus. Illyana Rasputin is a mutant teleporter, a sorceress, and the ruler of Limbo, who is currently a member of Storm's team of mutants residing in the "Jean Grey Institute for Higher Learning".

Both have abilities that would fit that world, and both have ties to characters that have either featured in the MCU already (Thor), or could be appearing in the MCU (Colossus - not counting the FOX Verse version).  Their common attribute beyond that?  Both are straight, white females.

Now lets look at the choice of America Chavez.  Super strength, can fly, and ok, breaks through the barriers or reality.  But perhaps this is the actual ability she has as to why she was chosen - Miss America also stands out as Marvel's first latina LGBT heroine to get her own series.

Now, can you honestly say that agenda pushing wasn't the only reason why she is being put into the movie?

Even Clea would be a better fit, as she actually has ties with the main character of Dr. Strange.

Just my thoughts.

Peace.

/K
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24 Jan 2020 15:18 #66593 by guimachajo1
Replied by guimachajo1 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
And CLEA the Dormamu's sister and Wife o girlfriend of Dr. Strangers.

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24 Jan 2020 16:00 #66596 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

kikass2014 wrote:

I TOTALLY agree about not wanting the script to be filled with political or social commentary tripe that they cram down our throats  (like Supergirl tends to do), but c'mon this was just an announcement of the character being in the movie, which -- as ToT pointed out -- actually makes sense if they are going the Omniverse route.


I agree with you on the bold part for sure, but surely you must view this as more then just it "makes sense".

To give an illustration, here are two, lesser known, female characters that would make MORE sense to be in Dr. Strange 2 -

- Amora the Enchantress, An Asgardian Goddess and immensely powerful magical sorcerer. Being backed by years of experience, she is one of Thor’s greatest and most powerful foes not only because of her immense power, but also because of him being her love interest.

- Magik, the younger sister of Colossus. Illyana Rasputin is a mutant teleporter, a sorceress, and the ruler of Limbo, who is currently a member of Storm's team of mutants residing in the "Jean Grey Institute for Higher Learning".

Both have abilities that would fit that world, and both have ties to characters that have either featured in the MCU already (Thor), or could be appearing in the MCU (Colossus - not counting the FOX Verse version).  Their common attribute beyond that?  Both are straight, white females.

Now lets look at the choice of America Chavez.  Super strength, can fly, and ok, breaks through the barriers or reality.  But perhaps this is the actual ability she has as to why she was chosen - Miss America also stands out as Marvel's first latina LGBT heroine to get her own series.

Now, can you honestly say that agenda pushing wasn't the only reason why she is being put into the movie?

Even Clea would be a better fit, as she actually has ties with the main character of Dr. Strange.

Just my thoughts.

Peace.

/K


I'm gonna regret going down this rabbit hole, I can FEEL it.....  lol

Your two choices are valid functionally, based on their powers.  To use Markie's description, I would classify Magik both as CDEFG-list characters along with America.  The relations to the other franchises you mention for the tie-ins speaks volumes.  I mean, cmon, if you're a mutant and you haven't even been in the 47 other X-men/Mutant movies yet, are you that popular or marketable?  I mean Multiple Man got a cameo for god sakes! :P

As for the Enchantress, I would not use her for the very reasons you said she would be a good choice.  She is one of Thor's premier villains -- I'd put her frankly right after Loki in his "rogue's gallery".  If I were in charge of the MCU, I wouldn't waste her in a secondary role.  TBH, I'm surprised she hasn't been his antagonist yet.  I woulda used her in Thor 2 or 3.

Truth be told, I'm a comic purist.  I don't believe in white-washing, black-washing, or gender-bending established characters to appease any
segment of the audience.  I think that's stupid and spitting in the face of the creator.  But America Chavez is not any of those, she's created to be a dimensional-hopping powerhouse who happens to be female, gay, and Latino.

I'm not saying being Latino and LGBTQ isn't a factor.  I'm questioning the "its a stupid choice because they're obviously doing it cause she's Latino and LGBTQ".  I mean who cares?  Well, I'm sure a lot of people sadly do, but that's their problem.

I'm not naive to think it doesn't open up different marketing angles and open up demographic segments to pitch to --- just like Captain Marvel did.....and Wonder Woman.....and Black Panther.....and the Ms Marvel series will do.  If that's the definition of Marvel "pushing an agenda" -- using diverse characters that could appeal to people who we might not have as fans -- then I guess that's true.
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24 Jan 2020 16:01 #66597 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

kikass2014 wrote:

I TOTALLY agree about not wanting the script to be filled with political or social commentary tripe that they cram down our throats  (like Supergirl tends to do), but c'mon this was just an announcement of the character being in the movie, which -- as ToT pointed out -- actually makes sense if they are going the Omniverse route.


I agree with you on the bold part for sure, but surely you must view this as more then just it "makes sense".

To give an illustration, here are two, lesser known, female characters that would make MORE sense to be in Dr. Strange 2 -

- Amora the Enchantress, An Asgardian Goddess and immensely powerful magical sorcerer. Being backed by years of experience, she is one of Thor’s greatest and most powerful foes not only because of her immense power, but also because of him being her love interest.

- Magik, the younger sister of Colossus. Illyana Rasputin is a mutant teleporter, a sorceress, and the ruler of Limbo, who is currently a member of Storm's team of mutants residing in the "Jean Grey Institute for Higher Learning".

Both have abilities that would fit that world, and both have ties to characters that have either featured in the MCU already (Thor), or could be appearing in the MCU (Colossus - not counting the FOX Verse version).  Their common attribute beyond that?  Both are straight, white females.

Now lets look at the choice of America Chavez.  Super strength, can fly, and ok, breaks through the barriers or reality.  But perhaps this is the actual ability she has as to why she was chosen - Miss America also stands out as Marvel's first latina LGBT heroine to get her own series.

Now, can you honestly say that agenda pushing wasn't the only reason why she is being put into the movie?

Even Clea would be a better fit, as she actually has ties with the main character of Dr. Strange.

Just my thoughts.

Peace.

/K


There was no reason to make Guardians of the Galaxy.  C-list characters at best.  No one had heard of them.  No connections to anything.

Yes, Marvel wants a more diverse line-up.  Black Panther has steadily been on the rise for years for this very reason.  He's also a pretty cool character, but it's obvious from the moment of his conception, "agenda pushing" was in the mix.  Ditto for Luke Cage.

Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers (as a Super-Hero) and She-Hulk were made for the same reason. (And you'd be hard-pressed to leave Spider-Woman out of this too.)  Since these are two of my favorite characters, I don't really find "agenda pushing" to be a bad thing in balance.  (Also, I like Luke and Black Panther too.)

For that matter: Kamala Kahn/Ms. Marvel and Miles Morales Spider-Man are pretty cool too, and that's also agenda pushing.

The story ain't new.  And it's not always bad.  ALL creation has inputs and biases.  All great art usually has some limitation somewhere, and even some random "must include X" can sometimes end up fueling creation to make something better.

That's how ALL stories are written and all characters are chosen for a movie.  Maybe Marvel doesn't want to bring in the Mutant baggage into Dr. Strange?  Maybe they don't want to bring in Clea (she's no longer in Dr. Strange comics much, and hasn't appeared in the MCU at all, so to movie goers she has the same weight as Chavez).  Amora is an awesome character, but she might not be a good fit for the movie for other reasons.   NO ONE HAS SEEN THE PLOT YET.

Ponder the Chavez vs Clea argument, and divest yourself from "Comic History" as an argument.  And then come back and ask: Marvel has to invest time and energy into putting a character in a movie, which character gives the more bang for the buck?

Clea, an unknown character who probably won't tie much into any other MCU story. Isn't used in comics much anymore. Has _historical_ ties to Dr. Strange comic character, but zero ties to MCU Dr. Strange. Bringing her in might also alter the storyline they have set up for Dr. Strange in ways they do not want.

America Chavez: An unknown character.  Currently used in animation.  Is a character currently being used in comics infrequently (but a lot more than then Clea)  A character that "for agenda pushing", is being used by Marvel.  Can easily be used in other MCU movies.  Ticks some marketing boxes with Marvel (your agenda pushing).

They just don't need Clea for the MCU or the story.  I also note that Wanda and Chavez will have ZERO romantic entanglements with Strange.  Wanda should be still messed up from Vision and Chavez, well Strange really isn't her type.  Clea and Amora?  Not so much.  Picking these characters alters the story, and they want/not want that.

Majick? better answer than Clea, esp with the Horror focus.  I'm going to pick " Didn't have Mutant problems solved early enough in Dr. Strange development to use".  Look to the delay of New Mutants as more evidence of this.  (If Marvel knew what they were doing, they'd either have tanked the movie right away or released it earlier.)

Amora: better than clea.  She's a great character, long history. Could be a foil for Avengers.  But they already have Loki.  And they don't need to strengthen the Dr. Strange/Thor links more.  She really doesn't add much to the mix for Marvel either. Plus, Use Valkyrie instead.

Also, Clea and Amora have _dimensional_ experience, but not as much _Multiversal_ experience.  And there is no more reason for them to show up in a movie with that as a tagline than an actual multiversal character.

So yeah, I mean "These characters would ALSO work in the movie".  Fair.

But, that DOES NOT PROVE that Chavez "makes no sense".

Also, maybe marvel didn't want the movie to be "100% Magic characters". It helps tie the magical characters to the MCU more.  Just like Hulk isn't a Thor character, but made sense in the story.

My point is that you are viewing this as ONLY the "Agenda pushing" axis, and there are multiple considerations in play.  YES, that is ABSOLUTELY one of them.






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24 Jan 2020 20:08 #66601 by ChaozCloud
Replied by ChaozCloud on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
I don't see the problem.

First, America isn't my favorite Marvel character, but neither is Ant-Man and he got two good movies as a main characters. So I'm more than willing to see where this is going.

Second, we don't even know how much involvement she will have in the movie. For all we know she could have a 5 second cameo like Howard the Duck. Or if she has a big role in the movie, who is to say that it will be bad? Could be movie of the year for all we know.

Third, does it really matter if she is gay? It may not even come up in the movie and even if it does and she ends up kissing a girl, how is that a problem vs say Spider-Man and MJ kissing?

Fourth, having magic users teaming up with magic users is boring. There is a reason we don't have comic book teams that are just a bunch of heroes with the same powers. The more diversity in the power sets the better.
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24 Jan 2020 20:16 #66602 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

I'm gonna regret going down this rabbit hole, I can FEEL it.....  lol


haha, its all good man :)  just friendly discussion :)

Of course there is marketing opportunities by bringing that character as oppose to, for arguments sake, the ones I mentioned.  Same thing they did for Black Panther, Capt. Marvel. 

The red flag alerts from myself, I can't speak for anyone else really, is "will that be a defining characteristic of that character?  And will the story revolve around some sort of bigotry towards women and/or homosexuals?"

Now, without knowing what the story for Dr. Strange 2 actually is, its impossible to tell.  But its happened in other franchises, so there is precedence.

Will Marvel resist the temptation to go down the route of, say, Supergirl, and become all preachy?  Who knows.  Can only tell when the film is released.

There is a general push-back occurring now from the general public against this narrative.  Of "girl power" and "diversity", and all that.  The past year, you can look at the flops of Charlies Angels, Terminator: Dark Fate, and even Rise of Skywalker as proof that people have had enough of this agenda.  Of "straight, white males" as the villains, of women being amazing at everything and so on.  And the box office reflects this.

Why does this concern me?  I love the MCU.  Its a fun escape, and for the most part, tell cool stories with characters I have grown up with.

I don't want them to start tanking for the sake of pushing agendas over telling good stories with interesting characters.

Having said all that, to clarify, and answer your point Twice, I never said agenda pushing was the only reason.  Just the biggest.  And thats bad enough imo for me if it plays out that way.

We'll see how it goes when the film is released, or at least when details of the films story begin to emerge.

Peace.

/K
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24 Jan 2020 21:22 #66603 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

kikass2014 wrote:
The red flag alerts from myself, I can't speak for anyone else really, is "will that be a defining characteristic of that character?  And will the story revolve around some sort of bigotry towards women and/or homosexuals?"

Now, without knowing what the story for Dr. Strange 2 actually is, its impossible to tell.  But its happened in other franchises, so there is precedence.

Will Marvel resist the temptation to go down the route of, say, Supergirl, and become all preachy?  Who knows.  Can only tell when the film is released.


You really think they're going to spot over minutes of the Dr. Strange movie to start dealing with bigotry towards women and homosexuals?   Or if they did it would be something boring/horrible.  I mean Marvel's got a pretty good track record (hopefully they learned from Age of Ultron).

And that last part "we can only tell when the film is released" is exactly the point. I don't see any evidence that other than sticking a Latina queer character in the movie that means the movie will suddenly be all preachy or spend a lot of time dealing with that.  (No one seems to worry that about Wanda ... I mean she is a woman.)

kikass2014 wrote: There is a general push-back occurring now from the general public against this narrative.  Of "girl power" and "diversity", and all that.  The past year, you can look at the flops of Charlies Angels, Terminator: Dark Fate, and even Rise of Skywalker as proof that people have had enough of this agenda.  Of "straight, white males" as the villains, of women being amazing at everything and so on.  And the box office reflects this.




And Captain Marvel made $1 Billion.  Frozen II made $1.4 Billion Charlie's Angels and Terminator: Dark Fate I think were judged by the box office fairly.  I think really only Charlies Angels fits what you said (where focus on preachy and agenda setting seemed to be given more weight than storytelling.)   Terminator was just franchise fatigue and the movie seemed a re-hash. That female Terminator though. *whew*

As for Rise of Skywalker.  I love that a top 20 of all-time grossing movie is "a flop".  I mean sure it's $400 Million less than episode VII, so it seems like it should have been able to make a lot more money.  But it still made the top 20 of all time for domestic gross....hardly flop material.



kikass2014 wrote:
Why does this concern me?  I love the MCU.  Its a fun escape, and for the most part, tell cool stories with characters I have grown up with.

I don't want them to start tanking for the sake of pushing agendas over telling good stories with interesting characters.



Maybe wait until there are actual signs of this?   Right now you seem to be reading tea leaves and clutching your pearls. Maybe you consider Captain Marvel a sign?

I'm honestly puzzled by the reaction.  I mean you seemed to be more invested in it that I think is warranted.

re: past agenda setting characters who were awesome.  



kikass2014 wrote:
Having said all that, to clarify, and answer your point Twice, I never said agenda pushing was the only reason.  Just the biggest.  And thats bad enough imo for me if it plays out that way.



Well, you post like you not only think that it's the biggest reason, but that Marvel isn't dealing with any possible downsides.  Agenda pushing isn't bad, it's a very common part of all art including movies.  Agenda pushing over the story _IS_.  Just about anything done over the story is bad.  There are many paths to ruining the story, it's just but one of them.

Right now I'll bet on the streak Marvel has to put out an enjoyable movie.

I really don't seem America Chavez taking over the Dr. Strange movie enough to matter.  I might be wrong, but right now I'm pretty confident on my odds.



kikass2014 wrote: Peace.

/K


Indeed.  It's all good fun to me, I'm only being critical as there were multiple responses to the thread that I think jumped 2-3 steps ahead and assumed a lot we don't know and were then talking about things like they were fact.  I love speculation, but there is a point where it seems like we're closing off discussion and focusing on the non-fun parts.  I mean, no one has to change anything,  I'm just waving my hand and saying my piece just like everyone else.

.

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24 Jan 2020 23:14 #66606 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?

Maybe wait until there are actual signs of this?


I think you hit the nail on the head here Twice.

I'm gonna assume a wait-and-see position for now.

We'll return to this once the film has been released :)

Peace.

/K
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25 Jan 2020 05:55 #66609 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
"Agenda pushing" has been a part of movies for as long as I can remember. Most movies made in the 40's, 50's about WWII were extreme examples of agenda pushing propaganda. Movies in the 60's were flagrantly pushing agendas. You can say that about many movies since then. Some people won't watch anything with Jane Fonda in it. Whatever. 

The only difference is that the agenda has changed over time. But this is what Hollywood has always done -- embedding an exaggerate version of the emerging social structure of the country into movies in a way that pleases their primary audience. They always try to get ahead of the curve, if they can figure out where it's going. That's just business. 

And a gay, latino, female superhuman character is merely a sign of the times. By mid-century, given the demographic changes that are unstoppable, straight, white, male characters will be the "local color" in movies, at least in the US. The mainstream audience will want characters who better represent them. 

None of that bothers me. Everything changes over time. As long as the character works and is at least slightly faithful to the comics and the movie is done well, then I'm 100% Ok with it. 

Shadar
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25 Jan 2020 15:21 #66611 by Sarge395
Replied by Sarge395 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
The movie industry has always been influenced by the USA's worst offenders of liberty.  Research how Germany influenced US film makers not to react to the sins of Germany in the 30 up to the start of WWII.  The first anti Nazi filmed was basically banned by US Censors.  See here:

http://www.openculture.com/2013/05/rediscovered_the_first_american_anti-nazi_film_banned_by_us_censors_and_forgotten_for_80_years.html

And now that China has heavy investment in Hollywood there are more examples than I can count of their pro China diktats coming out of their pie holes.  

If a cool ubergirl scene comes out in a major movie I can always wait until the clip comes out on Youtube.  

I don't like propaganda.  I vote with my wallet or other ways.  
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26 Jan 2020 04:02 #66619 by static2097
Replied by static2097 on topic Another Ubergirl Coming to MCU?
Regarding Miss America Chavez... when my niece lists Marvel characters she will list Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel and Miss America before  anyone else that was mentioned.  When this movie comes out - she will be demanding to see these films rather than kids flicks and these decisions can really push the needle. Also who is likely to be able to sell more merch?
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