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Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series

13 Aug 2018 15:24 #60639 by lfan
Berlanti and Co are known for their "social activism" casting so it's not a surprise, but people are jumping all over this girl.  I'm not that familiar with her acting (haven't gotten to her in Orange Is the New Black yet -- no spoilers) and haven't seen The Meg, but based on those castings, she cannot be the worst actress in the world.  The literally could have gotten ANYONE to play her role in The Meg, yet she got it.  While it would be naive to think that being a lesbian didn't help her get the role, I think "she was cast simply because she is a lesbian and on no other merit" is a little harsh.

Getting the best actress for the role?!?!  I think you meant to say, "get the best actress for the role who's schedule will allow it and who fits into the budget and who is in the appropriate age range".   Those three factors alone probably rule out some of the ones on that list, not to mention a ton of other actresses.  Excellent choices, though, I'll give you that.  Why do you merely dismiss Ruby Rose as "stunt casting" because she is a lesbian?  Wouldn't you think a lesbian could portray a lesbian as adequately or better than a non-lesbian?  Would it be "stunt casting" if they chose a more established actress who was still lesbian/bi (like Evan Rachel Wood)? 

Im sure everyone had their own list of "Supergirls" when the show was announced and I would bet $1000 that 99.9% of people's lists did NOT include Benoist.  Though she is now entrenched in the role (and a fine actress most of the time) and is synonymous with "Supergirl" now.  This is CW, not Shakespeare in the Round, so the lack of experience thing is hardly shocking.  Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Steven Amell, Creed Williams....hardly household names before they were all selected to headline their own respective shows....

ElF








kikass2014 wrote: As Woodclaw said, it does suck and is not unexpected.

In a way, this demonstrates the stupidity (for lack of a better word) of what is clearly going on - stunt casting.  And some people (maybe quite a lot, enough to cause her to leave twitter) have had enough.

The problem, like I have said, is not Ruby Rose.  Its the fact that she was cast simply because she is a lesbian and on no other merit.  How can someone make this statement you say?  Well, lets consider some alternatives.


1) Rose Leslie - played Ygritte on Game of Thrones.  As well as being in Downton Abbey, as well as being in the series The Good Fight.

2) Adrianne Palicki - has played Mockingbird on AoS, as well as being in The Orville among other things.

3) Evan Rachel Wood - plays Delores on Westworld, and has been in a whole lot of stuff dating back to 1994 (she is only 30 years old).

3) Yvonne Strahovksi - voiced the character in the animated release.  Best known for appearing in Chuck.  Has been in Dexter, The Astronauts Wives Club, and The Handmaids Tale.

4) Hannah John-Kamen - played Finale in Ready Player One, and is currently Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp.  Best known for her role on Killjoys.


Each of these is perfectly fine as Batwoman, and ALL of them are better actors then Ruby Rose.

So, instead of getting the best possible actor for the role, you cast someone that fits in with an agenda.

That is why people are lashing out.

Peace.

/K

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13 Aug 2018 18:15 - 13 Aug 2018 18:18 #60640 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series

Berlanti and Co are known for their "social activism" casting so it's not a surprise, but people are jumping all over this girl.

True, I totally agree.  Just like I said they would cast a transgender actor for the role in Supergirl.  I wasn’t surprised, I expected it, and called it.

I'm not that familiar with her acting (haven't gotten to her in Orange Is the New Black yet -- no spoilers) and haven't seen The Meg, but based on those castings, she cannot be the worst actress in the world.  The literally could have gotten ANYONE to play her role in The Meg, yet she got it.  While it would be naive to think that being a lesbian didn't help her get the role, I think "she was cast simply because she is a lesbian and on no other merit" is a little harsh.

Well I’ve seen her in The Meg, and in OITNB.  I’ve seen her in John Wick 2, xXx and Resident Evil. So I can make that statement. And like others have said, she is not a very good actress.  But she has her following, and putting bums on seats is the business, so there is math at work here.

Getting the best actress for the role?!?!  I think you meant to say, "get the best actress for the role who's schedule will allow it and who fits into the budget and who is in the appropriate age range".   Those three factors alone probably rule out some of the ones on that list, not to mention a ton of other actresses.  Excellent choices, though, I'll give you that.

 I agree, that is a fair point.  So let me throw another one, one I suggested earlier – why not go with Madeline Petsch?  She’s not a household name, has worked with Berlanti before, is young, and has shown she can act.

Why do you merely dismiss Ruby Rose as "stunt casting" because she is a lesbian?  Wouldn't you think a lesbian could portray a lesbian as adequately or better than a non-lesbian?  Would it be "stunt casting" if they chose a more established actress who was still lesbian/bi (like Evan Rachel Wood)?

You seem to be missing the point.  The point is to cast someone REGARDLESS of their sexuality.  You cast someone on other factors, MAINLY their ability to ACT.

Im sure everyone had their own list of "Supergirls" when the show was announced and I would bet $1000 that 99.9% of people's lists did NOT include Benoist.

 True, but….

Though she is now entrenched in the role (and a fine actress most of the time) and is synonymous with "Supergirl" now.

 ...Benoist going into Supergirl was known.  She had appeared in Glee (along with Grant Gustin incidentally), and she was also in Whiplash.

This is CW, not Shakespeare in the Round, so the lack of experience thing is hardly shocking.  Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Steven Amell, Creed Williams....hardly household names before they were all selected to headline their own respective shows....

I agree.  This isn’t Shakespeare.  But that isn’t the point per se.  If you believe that Ruby Rose got this role on merit, fair play to you.  Who knows, maybe she will be excellent.

I’m just trying to explain why there is a (arguably justified) backlash.

Peace

./K
Last edit: 13 Aug 2018 18:18 by kikass2014.

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13 Aug 2018 19:28 - 13 Aug 2018 19:30 #60642 by lfan
Understood.....just saying

1:  Let's give her a chance
2.  I don't think its fair to say she solely got it by being a lesbian.  It probably helped though.  ;)


Random comments/rebuttals:
1)  Melissa was hardly known, IMO......one season of Glee does not make one a household name, especially given when the show was in its decline.  She had maybe 10 minutes of screen time in Whiplash, though I thought she was pretty good..  Side note:  I'm willing to fight anyone who does not think the ending of Whiplash is one of the best endings of all time.
2)  You mentioned Madeline Petsch, as she is in Berlanti's stable (which he loves to recycle).  Isn't she tied up with Riverdale?  I dont watch the show so I dunno if they killed off Cherry
3)  Still think your best suggestion was Rose Leslie.  Aside from the red hair (which helps), she displayed a fierceness and physicality in GoT that would translate well to the show, IMO
4)  There is backlash -- and there always will be -- because lots of people really need to get their own lives

ElF



kikass2014 wrote:

Berlanti and Co are known for their "social activism" casting so it's not a surprise, but people are jumping all over this girl.

True, I totally agree.  Just like I said they would cast a transgender actor for the role in Supergirl.  I wasn’t surprised, I expected it, and called it.

I'm not that familiar with her acting (haven't gotten to her in Orange Is the New Black yet -- no spoilers) and haven't seen The Meg, but based on those castings, she cannot be the worst actress in the world.  The literally could have gotten ANYONE to play her role in The Meg, yet she got it.  While it would be naive to think that being a lesbian didn't help her get the role, I think "she was cast simply because she is a lesbian and on no other merit" is a little harsh.

Well I’ve seen her in The Meg, and in OITNB.  I’ve seen her in John Wick 2, xXx and Resident Evil. So I can make that statement. And like others have said, she is not a very good actress.  But she has her following, and putting bums on seats is the business, so there is math at work here.

Getting the best actress for the role?!?!  I think you meant to say, "get the best actress for the role who's schedule will allow it and who fits into the budget and who is in the appropriate age range".   Those three factors alone probably rule out some of the ones on that list, not to mention a ton of other actresses.  Excellent choices, though, I'll give you that.

 I agree, that is a fair point.  So let me throw another one, one I suggested earlier – why not go with Madeline Petsch?  She’s not a household name, has worked with Berlanti before, is young, and has shown she can act.

Why do you merely dismiss Ruby Rose as "stunt casting" because she is a lesbian?  Wouldn't you think a lesbian could portray a lesbian as adequately or better than a non-lesbian?  Would it be "stunt casting" if they chose a more established actress who was still lesbian/bi (like Evan Rachel Wood)?

You seem to be missing the point.  The point is to cast someone REGARDLESS of their sexuality.  You cast someone on other factors, MAINLY their ability to ACT.

Im sure everyone had their own list of "Supergirls" when the show was announced and I would bet $1000 that 99.9% of people's lists did NOT include Benoist.

 True, but….

Though she is now entrenched in the role (and a fine actress most of the time) and is synonymous with "Supergirl" now.

 ...Benoist going into Supergirl was known.  She had appeared in Glee (along with Grant Gustin incidentally), and she was also in Whiplash.

This is CW, not Shakespeare in the Round, so the lack of experience thing is hardly shocking.  Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Steven Amell, Creed Williams....hardly household names before they were all selected to headline their own respective shows....

I agree.  This isn’t Shakespeare.  But that isn’t the point per se.  If you believe that Ruby Rose got this role on merit, fair play to you.  Who knows, maybe she will be excellent.

I’m just trying to explain why there is a (arguably justified) backlash.

Peace

./K

Last edit: 13 Aug 2018 19:30 by lfan.

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13 Aug 2018 19:43 #60643 by shadar

lfan wrote: Understood.....just saying

1:  Let's give her a chance
2.  I don't think its fair to say she solely got it by being a lesbian.  It probably helped though.  ;)


Random comments/rebuttals:
1)  Melissa was hardly known, IMO......one season of Glee does not make one a household name, especially given when the show was in its decline.  She had maybe 10 minutes of screen time in Whiplash, though I thought she was pretty good..  Side note:  I'm willing to fight anyone who does not think the ending of Whiplash is one of the best endings of all time.
2)  You mentioned Madeline Petsch, as she is in Berlanti's stable (which he loves to recycle).  Isn't she tied up with Riverdale?  I dont watch the show so I dunno if they killed off Cherry
3)  Still think your best suggestion was Rose Leslie.  Aside from the red hair (which helps), she displayed a fierceness and physicality in GoT that would translate well to the show, IMO
4)  There is backlash -- and there always will be -- because lots of people really need to get their own lives

ElF


I couldn't agree more, Lfan. Well said. 

What I think is really funny is that some lesbians are complaining that she's "not really a lesbian". Ruby describes herself as "gender fluid" which used to be called "bi-sexual" before we discovered that gender doesn't come in only two sizes. 

Shadar

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13 Aug 2018 20:13 #60645 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
@ Lfan

1) Didn't say she was a household name, but known.  And I agree with you on the Whiplash ending :)

2) As far as I know, Madeline Petsch is currently filming season 3 of Riverdale.  But having said that, it is not uncommon for actors to be working on more then one project at a time.  The Rock has like 5 films a year or something lol :D

3) Those were some I thought of off the top of my head so to speak.  I personally, would probably go with Rose as well out of the list :)

4) Agree, ppl will always hate something.

The bottom line, to me, is that she is going to play Batwoman.  Would I have liked someone else to play her?  Sure.  Do I care enough that it is her to bitch and moan at the woman?  No.  Will she be any good?  Who knows.  Will I watch it? I'll wait and she what she does in the crossover, then decide.

Kikass is now on lock-down with regards to this topic (baring unforeseen circumstances :P)

Peace.

/K
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13 Aug 2018 22:41 #60647 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
and Disney just hired a straight man to play a homosexual in the new Jungle Book movie.
Some members of the LGBTQ community are upset about the casting.
"Should be a gay man." is being thrown about.

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13 Aug 2018 22:59 #60649 by shadar

Markiehoe wrote: and Disney just hired a straight man to play a homosexual in the new Jungle Book movie.
Some members of the LGBTQ community are upset about the casting.
"Should be a gay man." is being thrown about.


I guess it all depends on your definition of "authenticity" when it comes to actors. Which is pretty funny when you think about it. We're talking fantasy characters here. What the heck does "authenticity" even mean when it comes to comic book characters?

Does Supergirl have to be cast by a real live extraterrestrial natural blonde to pass the extreme limits of "authenticity"?

(Not that I'd complain if they did, however.) <grin>

Shadar
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14 Aug 2018 04:11 #60655 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series

shadar wrote:

Markiehoe wrote: and Disney just hired a straight man to play a homosexual in the new Jungle Book movie.
Some members of the LGBTQ community are upset about the casting.
"Should be a gay man." is being thrown about.


I guess it all depends on your definition of "authenticity" when it comes to actors. Which is pretty funny when you think about it. We're talking fantasy characters here. What the heck does "authenticity" even mean when it comes to comic book characters?

Does Supergirl have to be cast by a real live extraterrestrial natural blonde to pass the extreme limits of "authenticity"?

(Not that I'd complain if they did, however.) <grin>

Shadar


Eric McCormack did well enough will Will and Grace to get 4 Enmy nominations and 1 win.  IMO he did a great job for a comedy.  Unlike most of Hollywood, he's been married over 20 years to the same woman which makes him not typical but also fairly certainly not gay.

One has to wonder, given the current environment, if he would even be considered for such a role now and what the backlash would be.

'Gender fluid?' /chuckle.  That ranks up there with military intelligence, jumbo shrimp and limited nuclear war.  Drop your pants.  Look down.  :)

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14 Aug 2018 05:59 - 14 Aug 2018 13:18 #60656 by lfan

shadar wrote:
What I think is really funny is that some lesbians are complaining that she's "not really a lesbian". Ruby describes herself as "gender fluid" which used to be called "bi-sexual" before we discovered that gender doesn't come in only two sizes. 

Shadar


at the risk of being pedantic, while a lot of gender fluid people are bisexual, they are actually two different things.  Gender fluid refers to gender identity where a person sometimes identifies as a male and sometimes identifies as a female.  Miley Cyrus and Jayden Smith are two examples of celebs that have come out as gender fluid..

Bisexuality refers to the sexual attraction to both sexes.  You can live life as a woman and be attracted to both sexes (bisexual).   Conversely, you can be attracted to only women and be gender fluid, identifying sometimes as male and sometimes as female.

Next Week's Discussiion:   Non Binary :p

elf
Last edit: 14 Aug 2018 13:18 by lfan.

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14 Aug 2018 17:27 #60658 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series

lfan wrote:

shadar wrote:
What I think is really funny is that some lesbians are complaining that she's "not really a lesbian". Ruby describes herself as "gender fluid" which used to be called "bi-sexual" before we discovered that gender doesn't come in only two sizes. 

Shadar


at the risk of being pedantic, while a lot of gender fluid people are bisexual, they are actually two different things.  Gender fluid refers to gender identity where a person sometimes identifies as a male and sometimes identifies as a female.  Miley Cyrus and Jayden Smith are two examples of celebs that have come out as gender fluid..

Bisexuality refers to the sexual attraction to both sexes.  You can live life as a woman and be attracted to both sexes (bisexual).   Conversely, you can be attracted to only women and be gender fluid, identifying sometimes as male and sometimes as female.

Next Week's Discussiion:   Non Binary :p

elf


To try and quantify these things is a pointless social exercise.  Generally, our DNA (with rare mutation / exceptions) make us male or female.  The rest becomes a process of nature and nurture and dividing up into tribes over the various subsets might serve a political goal or psychological need, but it's otherwise meaningless.

I daresay that everyone on this site (including myself) are here because we are deviants (and even we have our subsets.)  Things like 'gender fluid' are only relevant if you are a post modern Marxist emphasizing the power of the oppressed or need the psychological buttressing of being in a special group.  Individually, we are all different and the focus on tribe undermines individuality especially when it hits legislation.

But, on topic, let's face it people.  It's the CW.  They could hire an actress with the perfect look and brilliant ability and the writers will still give them garbage to work with.  Sad, but likely true.

Like most on there - give her and the show a chance.  My expectations are low enough it might surprise me :).
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14 Aug 2018 18:32 - 14 Aug 2018 18:35 #60659 by fats
I'm going to put a stop on posts about either gender or sexual identity, this thread is about the upcoming Series, any other posts that comment on the about two issues mentioned will be either edited or deleted.

Fats
Last edit: 14 Aug 2018 18:35 by fats.
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14 Aug 2018 20:07 - 14 Aug 2018 20:08 #60662 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
I am wondering about her costume.
It is no secret I am a fan of these Superwomen in costume.
I am hoping for something with a little color in it.



I will settle for a more modern version as depicted in the comics.


A mask is important to the character and please no "All Black" jumpsuit that is the fall back for all female supertypes these days.

Maybe we can hope for a costume fashion show like we had in the first episode of Supergirl.

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14 Aug 2018 20:21 #60663 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Personally I like this busty version.


No chance of that I guess. ;)

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14 Aug 2018 20:46 #60666 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
It's very likely that the costume is going to change over time (so far Supergirl and some of the Legends are the only characters with a single look), but I highly doubt that we will ever see the yellow suit, except as a an easter egg.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

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15 Aug 2018 07:40 #60672 by Albais
If it's based on the actual character have to be second one and don't think yellow dress will appear since this was another Batwoman, original one that only get in common names of both characters but that was all that they both shared...

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21 Aug 2018 17:37 #60753 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Ruby Rose is featured in this funny trailer for a fake Crocodile Dundee remake.

Fan Favorite Margot Robbie is in it also.

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09 Oct 2018 23:33 #61512 by murdough
Replied by murdough on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Elseworlds, the three part Flash/Arrow/Supergirl crossover slated for December 9, 10, and 11 started filming today, and the CW has released the first official image of Ruby Rose in costume as Batwoman. While we probably won't see any footage of her in action until early November at the earliest, the still shot looks pretty good, proving to be pretty faithful to the comics.



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10 Oct 2018 01:21 #61513 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
My eyes are not what they used to be.
That first image is a drawing, isn't it?

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10 Oct 2018 03:09 #61514 by murdough
Replied by murdough on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series

Markiehoe wrote: My eyes are not what they used to be.
That first image is a drawing, isn't it?


No it's a heavily filtered photo. The CW has a tendency to do that with their promo shots. The second image though is artwork done by Artgerm.
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10 Oct 2018 09:44 #61516 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Yeah thats a typical CW promo shot - heavily photoshoped :)

But, looks good to be fair.  My only criticism would be - needs red boots, and the texture of the costume seems more mesh then leather.

Apart from that, looks pretty good and faithful.

Peace.

/K

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