LaPorte Caves

Pepper wrote: Oh, one critique, if I may, circes. One of the traditional hallmarks of these stories is the protagonist discovering her new abilities. Julia has apparently discovered how to use her pheromones to entice (to put it mildly) men, but you just skipped over that whole event and only have her describing it in passing. After the joy of running, swimming, learning the language, and everything else, it seems odd to leave this out as if it's no big deal. Maybe you think that sort of scene has been done to death already, or you wanted these new chapters to be more about bringing Julia and Howard together, but it would have been interesting to see what you'd done with it.

AuGoose wrote: With the introduction of the pheromones, it seems like there's definitely going to come a moment when Julia realizes Howard didn't have the slightest choice in the matter of his response to being borrowed . Kind of hard to hold infidelity against a guy when you and every other woman on the planet can strip him of agency at whim. Somehow I don't think a horny 18 year old raised to think men are little more than pets was showing the restrain Julia's trying to exhibit...

Pepper wrote:

AuGoose wrote: With the introduction of the pheromones, it seems like there's definitely going to come a moment when Julia realizes Howard didn't have the slightest choice in the matter of his response to being borrowed . Kind of hard to hold infidelity against a guy when you and every other woman on the planet can strip him of agency at whim. Somehow I don't think a horny 18 year old raised to think men are little more than pets was showing the restrain Julia's trying to exhibit...

So much has happened since Howard was borrowed that I don't necessarily get the impression that Julia is still nursing that particular grudge, much less reevaluating Howard's culpability for it. She seems to have shed her old self almost completely, and is more mad that Howard expresses any doubts about the new Julia. Plus, she's made such a point of how he needs to adopt the local customs that it would be unreasonable to get mad at him for having done just that (although emotional hurts don't usually give way to rational analysis.)

AuGoose wrote: Welcome back ,

With the introduction of the pheromones, it seems like there's definitely going to come a moment when Julia realizes Howard didn't have the slightest choice in the matter of his response to being borrowed . Kind of hard to hold infidelity against a guy when you and every other woman on the planet can strip him of agency at whim. Somehow I don't think a horny 18 year old raised to think men are little more than pets was showing the restrain Julia's trying to exhibit...

“Whenever we’re turned on, we release pheromones that turn the wills of weaker beings to jelly.” Mindy spread her legs slightly, the fabric of her miniskirt stretching to accommodate the expansion. “See?”
The delicate wisps of musk that had reached Julia’s nose earlier were now replaced by a thick cloud. Julia’s heart raced. Her breathing shallowed. And her thoughts scattered like bowling pins tumbling away from a well-aimed ball. I’ve got to have her, Julia’s mind screamed. I’ve GOT to. Her hands flailed about seeking the floor anything that could hold her.
“That’s what happened to Howard in the bath. He tried to resist touching me. I don’t know why, but he really tried. It was so cute. But the more he tried to deny his desire, the more it turned me on, so there was no hope for him. I completely crushed his will. Having that kind of power over men – it’s is my favorite part of being Nourished.”
Julia felt another wave of desire hit her. I can’t let myself do this, Julia objected to herself! Howard did this and I hate him for it. Now, I’m fantasizing about committing the same sort of betrayal myself! But her will felt no sturdier than a drinking straw tasked with propping up a brick.

twitch99 wrote:

Pepper wrote:

AuGoose wrote: With the introduction of the pheromones, it seems like there's definitely going to come a moment when Julia realizes Howard didn't have the slightest choice in the matter of his response to being borrowed . Kind of hard to hold infidelity against a guy when you and every other woman on the planet can strip him of agency at whim. Somehow I don't think a horny 18 year old raised to think men are little more than pets was showing the restrain Julia's trying to exhibit...

So much has happened since Howard was borrowed that I don't necessarily get the impression that Julia is still nursing that particular grudge, much less reevaluating Howard's culpability for it. She seems to have shed her old self almost completely, and is more mad that Howard expresses any doubts about the new Julia. Plus, she's made such a point of how he needs to adopt the local customs that it would be unreasonable to get mad at him for having done just that (although emotional hurts don't usually give way to rational analysis.)

I agree that Julia probably has let the Howard infidelity issue go, especially as she has had multiple transgressions with multiple men since. A big issue will be if Howard can deal with Julia's "need" to copulate multiple times a day with multiple partners. I find the whole issue that the women cannot fight this "need" to be rather interesting. They are so smart and strong, etc., but when it comes to sex they are like a moose in rut, but their rutting season is the whole year, every day. I find that a curious weakness in my book.

Now don't get me wrong, I would love to help with her needs!!

Monty wrote: I mentioned earlier in the thread that perhaps the juice limits the number of females to preserve the amount of fruit for consumption, hence the male to female ratio. Perhaps it also drives them to procreate to maintain a balance? It sure as hell does everything else for them!

circes_cup wrote: On the topic of sex and pheromones, I think you guys have pretty much nailed it. For these women, sex is an intense need, but is pleasurable enough that the daily fulfillment of that need becomes an indulgence rather than a chore. The use of pheromones does indeed deprive men of choice in the matter. And for that reason, it is a tool that Julia has resisted using on the man she loves. If these points didn't come across, that's just a weakness in the writing.

Also, Julia is now at the point where she understands that he could not have resisted Amanda's advances in the opening chapters: his physical infidelity was not emotional and was not intentional. I'm glad you just mentioned this plot element, because it is high time for me to incorporate Julia's acknowledgement of what she now understands.

Monty wrote: I mentioned earlier in the thread that perhaps the juice limits the number of females to preserve the amount of fruit for consumption, hence the male to female ratio. Perhaps it also drives them to procreate to maintain a balance? It sure as hell does everything else for them!

twitch99 wrote: On that note about nourishment, there has been multiple instances of fore shadowing that all may not be right with this world. Another example in Chapter 14 is Julia's dark dream. I keep thinking that Howard and Julia are in this world for a reason and that maybe to help save it, as they have a perspective not shared by the others.

twitch99 wrote: I keep thinking that Howard and Julia are in this world for a reason and that maybe to help save it, as they have a perspective not shared by the others.

lowerbase wrote: That's one thing I expect to happen at some point, that Julia would seat and read the entire history of that world in some post sex lazy afternoon. Maybe out of curiosity.

If the nourished world parallels our history, this nourished world past might be so much bloodier and perverse. How would be like its tribal past? The nutty religions? Did the nourishment happened at some point in history, or it was there ever since? Was this society once male dominant? There was some sort of female revolution?

AuGoose wrote: And the mermaid joke suggested the caves maybe connect different times. Would be hilarious if Ruth lives in Julia's distant (potential) future and Julia basically returns home to plant the first Diana Tree, securing a key turning point in Ruth's distant past, changing possible to likely .

AuGoose wrote: ((Pepper, I think mangled your original post trying to quote it. I've attempted to restore it but if I've altered it I'm sorry, it was entirely by accident))

lowerbase wrote: I love speculative erotic scifi.

even if Circes doesn't address these things, it is already great for us readers to think about such possibilities[/quote

I think Circes has set great new boundaries in this genre. Time will tell

Lowerbase wrote: That's one thing I expect to happen at some point, that Julia would seat and read the entire history of that world in some post sex lazy afternoon. Maybe out of curiosity.

I mean, I think what we have here is this civilization at its most enlightened and advanced stage and still evolving, like where we are now in history.

What about its past? Was it dark?

Au Goose wrote: I thinking just finding a world map could tell you a lot about whether the caves are connecting different planets or maybe just alternate versions of Earth... The biological compatibility and shared language makes me think the later, but it could play out in many ways.

Au Goose wrote: And the mermaid joke suggested the caves maybe connect different times. Would be hilarious if Ruth lives in Julia's distant (potential) future and Julia basically returns home to plant the first Diana Tree, securing a key turning point in Ruth's distant past, changing possible to likely .   

Woodclaw wrote: I remember a chat last year about the history of this world and I put forward the hypothesis that Noursihment (at least in the current superconcentrated form) had to be a rather recent development. My base logic is that many of the technological achievements we see around (from cars to computers) are the tools of a society not unlike our own, which means that the people of this world had to face challenges similar to our and came up with similar solutions. For example, from a Nourished perspective any form of transportation, save perhaps an airplane is more or less useless, which implies that cars and other similar tools were either created before the nourished came around or were built by the men first and later redesigned or improved by the nourished to fit their unique needs.