Amount

LaPorte Caves

11 Apr 2016 22:19 #47263 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic LaPorte Caves
I am really loving this story more and more with each new chapter. Does Julia feel the need to pull Howard away from the family group because she doesn't trust them? A similar scenario was seen when she swam him away from listening, prying ears. Are the family going to try and prevent the couple from leaving? Great work. Looking forward to more!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Apr 2016 16:25 #47277 by circes_cup
Replied by circes_cup on topic LaPorte Caves

jnw550 wrote: This is really a great story. I find myself wondering how I would feel in Howard's situation. From the outside looking in, Julia is the girl I fantasize about. But in a real scenario would I be okay being so effortlessly emasculated even if she means well? ....Julia's discovery and naivety is adorable. In contrast, so is her physical dominance and it's obvious she's beginning to like it even a little.


Thanks! Yes, the emasculation on his part , the thrill of power on her part, and what it does to their relationship -- those are definitely topics I wanted to explore with this piece. So, I am gland they are coming through. Thanks again.

jnw550 wrote: I imagine inserting her in our world is going to be a true eye opener for the both of them. She's fairly commonplace in that world, but in our world she'll be a goddess.


A number of people have made this suggestion, either publicly or directly to me. Inserting Julia or her Nourished friends to our world would make for some interesting chapters, but it has the potential to completely hijack the original storyline I was hoping to pursue. So, I'm still trying to figure this piece of it out. PM me if you have any ideas.

Monty wrote: I am really loving this story more and more with each new chapter. Does Julia feel the need to pull Howard away from the family group because she doesn't trust them? A similar scenario was seen when she swam him away from listening, prying ears. Are the family going to try and prevent the couple from leaving?


Thanks, Monty! To your point about the swimming, yes, Julia pulled him away from prying ears because (a) they were arguing and (b) Howard's view of the amazon world would have been upsetting for the family to hear. And in this chapter, Julia is pulling Howard away again for similar reasons: the idea of them leaving will be upsetting to the family. I'll leave you in suspense on what happens next. Chapter 10 should be submitted on Thursday of this week!
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, furbutt4, Monty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Apr 2016 23:32 #47344 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic LaPorte Caves
For those who missed it, part 10 is out :)

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Apr 2016 07:37 #47346 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic LaPorte Caves
A tenth chapter of exploration and still I'm not craving a rescue from boredom via ninja attack. That's an amazing amount of exposition without collapsing under the info dump. Some superb show-over-tell going on there.

I have to ask, what's your sense of the ratio in chap 10 between stuff you've had planned well beforehand and stuff discovered in the moment of writing it?

I thought for sure chapter 9 was going to do me in: I think some of the super intellect would put me right past the uncanny valley and deep into the plummet on the far side of the peak. I'd be that guy in for a life of disappointment there, only maybe my frame of reference might be the world, rather than the titans moving through it. You could still challenge the seas or climb mountains and measure yourself against those things and other men without constantly smashing your head against the womenfolk.

And if you did decide it was your calling to pull down gods... well, their kryptonite is rather obvious ;}.

(Actually, I can think of three ways to obliterate the Nourished. But I'm evil like that...)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Apr 2016 10:17 #47347 by circes_cup
Replied by circes_cup on topic LaPorte Caves

AuGoose wrote: A tenth chapter of exploration and still I'm not craving a rescue from boredom via ninja attack. That's an amazing amount of exposition without collapsing under the info dump. Some superb show-over-tell going on there.


Great to know that you're enjoying the story despite the leisurely pace and lack of ninjas. I think the story will have to shift out of first gear shortly, with the commensurate amount of whoop-ass to ensue.

AuGoose wrote: I have to ask, what's your sense of the ratio in chap 10 between stuff you've had planned well beforehand and stuff discovered in the moment of writing it?


I've learned the hard way that I do much better when I focus on the characters. So, instead of saying to myself "it would be really awesome if they walked through a fire", I'm saying "these two ladies need to have a private conversation, and why not have them do it in a super way?"

AuGoose wrote: I'd be that guy in for a life of disappointment there, only maybe my frame of reference might be the world, rather than the titans moving through it. You could still challenge the seas or climb mountains and measure yourself against those things and other men without constantly smashing your head against the womenfolk.


I think we'd ALL be that guy in for a life of disappointment. We need to feel a sense of accomplishment, and in that sense, we all have egos. In this story, I'm trying to experiment with what happens our ability to have an ego gets stripped away.

Or here is another way I have been thinking about it: In American culture, (ie, my culture), there is a strong emphasis on being happy no matter what your circumstances. In a wheelchair? No problem! There are still plenty of productive things you can do with your life! Stephen Hawking is in a wheelchair, after all! Mind over matter! But I find that this attitude can be pretty naive. Difficult circumstances tend to bring out the worst in people, and that in turn makes the situation only more difficult. So, given how extreme Howard's situation is, he can't simply choose to have a good attitude. He can't just choose to measure himself against the mountain and not against the girl. He's might try to have the right perspective, but it's going to be hard. And, this, I am hoping, is what will generate the conflict that drives the story forward.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Torque

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
24 Apr 2016 10:50 - 24 Apr 2016 11:35 #47438 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic LaPorte Caves
Hi Circes,
I'm intrigued by what you said in your pm reply about Julia's dream / vision. It has certainly got me thinking about how this will play on now! Especially when I think back to what Castor wrote in an early post on LaPorte Caves... possible spoiler so I won't say anymore about that! but again I'm only guessing. You certainly have Julia in a right quandary in chapter 10 with all that power, which is becoming second nature to her, to give up and I can see she is thinking hard. There is a way I'd love to see this played on further and I am thinking it would be human nature for Julia to do what I am thinking, but there would be no closure. More Power to your Pen! :)

...eta, the human nature thought about Julia isn't the one I mentioned in the earlier pm.
Last edit: 24 Apr 2016 11:35 by Monty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: circes_cup

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 May 2016 05:46 #47543 by grungykitten
Replied by grungykitten on topic LaPorte Caves
I just wanted to say this is one of the best stories in this genre/fetish that I have ever read, and I'm super happy to see it continue here during brawna.org's downtime.
The following user(s) said Thank You: circes_cup

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 May 2016 13:24 #47622 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic LaPorte Caves
Loving Julia in chapter 11! She's definitely the boss and doesn't she (and Howard) know it! Perhaps the addictiveness of the Nourishment is also character changing, but the local residents are unaware as they know of no other way of life? Another great chapter Circes!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 May 2016 18:35 #47631 by Torque
Replied by Torque on topic LaPorte Caves
Just following up my comment on chapter 11. You are a great writer, and like others have commented, you've managed the slow burn and anticipation to really build the story instead of disract from it. I don't want to sound too critical of it, I really admire you for the skill needed for that. After I commented before, I went back and read the story over again. I think I can clarify my comment more. I think my issue has more to do with the fact that Julia seems to have no respect for the abilities she's been given. It's required no effort on her part, so she can't understand how that would affect Howard, who I think was trying to help her build into that person (obviously not a super woman through the use a of a magical fruit, but a better version of her Earth 1 self). He doesn't have a problem with muscular women per se, as evidenced by his attraction to the muscular wall climber, and I think he would have helped Julia become more like that and it would have helped them grow as a couple, but that has been taken away and Julia is too naive to realize it. She may be smart, but she has no experience. Personally I hope the nourishment wears off and it brings her down a few pegs so she can appreciate what kind of gift she is being given, and because I think that's the only way howard can start to respect her again. Not because she's less, but because she is the one that needs to mature.

Again, this is great, and I really look forward to more! Thank you for everything so far!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 May 2016 21:00 - 07 May 2016 21:00 #47639 by circes_cup
Replied by circes_cup on topic LaPorte Caves

Monty wrote: Loving Julia in chapter 11! She's definitely the boss and doesn't she (and Howard) know it! Perhaps the addictiveness of the Nourishment is also character changing, but the local residents are unaware as they know of no other way of life? Another great chapter Circes!


Monty, thanks for the props! I think you're getting at one of the key elements of the story -- that our personalities and relationships are partially shaped by our environment. For example, I used to share a house with several guys who were taller than me and had deeper voices. When they spoke, everyone listened, whereas when I spoke, not everyone did. And so it was no coincidence that those guys were pretty outgoing, too. They were accustomed to commanding a room, so their personalities had adapted to an environment were they were always the center of attention. But if one of them woke up one day and found himself mute -- thats when we find out what he's really made of, isn't it?

Torque wrote: ... I think my issue has more to do with the fact that Julia seems to have no respect for the abilities she's been given ... she can't understand how that would affect Howard


Torque, I can tell from your comments that you gave the story a very close read; this is really gratifying for me because it shows that the story actually made an impression on you! And I appreciate the thought you put into focusing your critique.

To address your question/concern about Julia's treatment of Howard, I'm certainly not interested in a plot where a woman becomes so power-drunk that her emotions and motivations are no longer recognizable to us. Instead, I'm interested in keeping her realistic. We're all flawed beings: we can love someone and yet, at times, be terribly unfair and cruel to them. In the case of Julia, she can recognize how unfair it is to keep Howard in this world, and yet also be deeply tempted by the desire to stay -- so much so that she succumbs to twisted reasoning in order to justify the action.

It's hard to respond in any further detail without spoiling the whole story. But I'll take it as a compliment that you found these characters compelling enough to become emotionally invested in them! ;)
Last edit: 07 May 2016 21:00 by circes_cup.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 May 2016 22:24 #47641 by Torque
Replied by Torque on topic LaPorte Caves
Very much so! A lot of this story resonates with me from my own relationship; I can relate myself and my significant other quite closely to Julia and Howard actually. Not in the supernatural sense of course, but the taking care of one over the other. I'm glad to hear that you're keeping the character motivations somewhat grounded. I can't wait to see what else you have in store! Any idea when the next update is or how many chapters you think you have to complete this saga?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2016 00:05 - 08 May 2016 01:00 #47643 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic LaPorte Caves
I think it is Howard who has to adapt here and not Julia. Why does Julia need to change? She has it all at her fingertips! You showed in a good way that Julia still cares for Howard by locking him up against his will to stop him wandering off. I don't think Howie is too impressed though!
Last edit: 08 May 2016 01:00 by Monty.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2016 01:32 #47644 by Torque
Replied by Torque on topic LaPorte Caves
Howard can certainly adapt by being more accepting that Julia can be self sufficient and not rely on him, of course, but in a healthy relationship each person is motivated by the other to be better and do better, not necessarily to impress each other but because everyone has their own interests and pursuits that they want to achieve. It's a two way street, and true partners support each other. Julia is basically telling Howard that everything he is no longer matters because all her abilities are so much better. She's not even giving him a choice to decide if a life of doing nothing more than being a toy to her is something he wants. You're right, she does have it all at her fingertips, all because the Diana fruit only works on women. She needs to respect how she didn't have to work for it. Howard needs to accept that he doesn't have to be the hero all the time too, but look at how she doesn't even care about the necklace he gave her that she melted off without so much as a single regret or thought of how he would feel. To me that says she has more to learn about how their relationship works than him.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2016 14:33 #47653 by smoki07
Replied by smoki07 on topic LaPorte Caves
"Asolute power corrupts asolutely"

I agree with Torque, Julia is belittling Howard. Besides, In this world Women is superior but it doesn't Men can live by themselft (ex. men's beach). Howard may decide this option to "clear his mind". He can start a sort of men's right over there but it's highly unlikely as he wants to go home. But once at home, Julia will lost benefits of her superioty so....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2016 14:47 #47655 by Pepper
Replied by Pepper on topic LaPorte Caves

Monty wrote: I think it is Howard who has to adapt here and not Julia. Why does Julia need to change? She has it all at her fingertips! You showed in a good way that Julia still cares for Howard by locking him up against his will to stop him wandering off. I don't think Howie is too impressed though!

I couldn't disagree more. Tying someone up is how you treat a dog or a slave, not someone you care about who is supposed to have dignity and free will. If she wants him to stay she should offer him something worth staying for, not try to break his spirit. Julia may see this as just a reversal of the way their relationship was before, but whatever upper hand Howard may have had over Julia, I don't get the sense that he abused it or sought to show her her place.

All of which does raise interesting questions for the story to answer. Does Howard enjoy any protections in this world, or could Julia take his head off, literally, with no one to answer to? Will Julia realize, or will Howard point out that she is setting out to degrade him as much as possible and telling him to learn to like it? As much as she is now stronger and smarter than him, I think Howard still has the moral high ground here.

I'm sorry to make my first post here a bit negative. It's really an excellent story; I hope it says something that I de-lurked to post about it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2016 17:35 #47656 by smoki07
Replied by smoki07 on topic LaPorte Caves
PS : Make no mistake I still love the story despite being critic Circes cup!!!!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 May 2016 08:39 #47669 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic LaPorte Caves
Honestly, I think Julia just handed Howard ammo that will cut her to the bone later.

Its ok that Julia isn't perfect. But no amount of super strength makes you immune to regret.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 May 2016 16:28 - 09 May 2016 16:30 #47674 by circes_cup
Replied by circes_cup on topic LaPorte Caves

Torque wrote: Any idea when the next update is or how many chapters you think you have to complete this saga?


In terms of the next update, hard to say. Ch 12 is basically a blank page at this point. And I often write the chapters in groups of 2-3 at a time, so it may be a while before I complete the the 12-15 group.

In terms of the expected length of the story, I hope that have only another 4-5 chapters to go, but I always tend to underestimate the length. Deep Down Inside was supposed to be 10 chapters and it wound up being 42. This one was supposed to be 5 chapters, so you do the math.
.
.

Pepper wrote: Does Howard enjoy any protections in this world, or could Julia take his head off, literally, with no one to answer to?


The story is intended to convey that protections do exist. In the first chapter, the cop makes an indirect reference to protections against abduction and abuse. And in Ch 9, Ruth also discusses the abuse in a way that presumes abuse is bad. I did not want to make this a pure might-is-right world where men live in continuous mortal fear of their women. And to the extent this ins't coming through in the story, that's certainly a point I should have made more clearly.

Moreover, the direction in which I'd ultimately like to take the story is to make it analogous to our own societies: courts and cultural values seek to make a fair and just society, but there are both good apples and bad ones. And sometimes justice is frayed on the margins -- for example, if it comes down to the word of a man versus the word of a woman in court, then who previals?
.
.

Pepper wrote: I'm sorry to make my first post here a bit negative. It's really an excellent story; I hope it says something that I de-lurked to post about it

It's great to see several new forum participants commenting on this story, and I really hope you keep doing so on this story and others! To the extent your post was negative, it was only negative towards a specific thing that Julia was doing -- something that I wouldn't have enjoyed either! So, no, I didn't find your post negative at all.
.
.

Smoki97 wrote: PS : Make no mistake I still love the story despite being critic


I actually didn't see your comment as critical at all!
.
.

AuGoose wrote: Its ok that Julia isn't perfect. But no amount of super strength makes you immune to regret.


That pretty much sums up how I am thinking about this, and apparently the way that several others are thinking as well. In the short run, Julia has it all at her fingertips, as Monty said. But in the long run, she can't be happy with him unless he is happy with her-- and It's this bond on which the story rotates.

Great to get all your comments! This level of engagement puts much more wind in my sails to get the next chapter!
Last edit: 09 May 2016 16:30 by circes_cup.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, Monty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 May 2016 18:59 #47678 by ballen
Replied by ballen on topic LaPorte Caves
As I read the comments that suggest Julia has somehow become corrupted by power and is treating Howard as a slave, I cannot help but think there is short / selective memory being displayed here. Howard absolutely defines his relationship with Julia by both is perceived greater deductive abilities and physical abilities. And now that Julia is the more able person in this world he is having severe problems coping.

Let's go back to Chapter 8 when Julia was quickly able to decipher the written language of this new world - something Howard was unable to do. What was his reaction? There was no, "that's great Julia. that will be helpful for us to navigate this stange world until we are able to leave ..." He stormed out of the room like a child.

Immediately after, she tried to extend an olive branch by engaging in something that could bring them together; swimming. The passage reads that she looked for a way to bring his confidence back up. Unfortunately the gesture failed. Why? Because of his pride. There was no, "You performed amazingly honey - phenomenal". In fact he understated her performance by saying, "Your pace was good." A reader commented that Howard was trying to build her into a better person. If there was a sincere effort on his part to do that, there would be no need to restrain compliments to his girlfriend. Why hold back? Tell her she is amazing. A confident man would do that. Further, how did he react when she continued to improve her already incredible performance? He struck her! He resorted to physical abuse. There was no taunting, no bating or any provocation on her part except for once in their relationship, she was more able than he, and that he could not tolerate. Thank goodness she was invulnerable.

Howard's reactions clearly demonstrate that this relationship only works for him when he is more able, both mentally and physically. Sure he encouraged her in their former world, but is behavior in this world suggests his encouragement was more likely patronizing and probably would be absent should she "ascend" to his level.

I could go on by discussing their interaction at the rock, but I want to turn to the latest chapter. Where Julia comes into her own and starts behaving like the superior being Ruth is encouraging her to embrace. I will say here, Julia did not exercise any tact or diplomacy when it came to her sexual behavior. She didn't have to tack in that direction but she did so in order to get Howard to hit her with the crowbar. In the end however it was a miscalculation because instead of her getting Howard to recognize she didn't need his protection, she instead only got him to see rage. The metaphor was lost if you will. I would make this point however. Howard was the first to transgress in his act with Amanda. Julia made him promise not to do anything with her, yet he succumbed. And not only that, but he admitted to her how wonderful the experience was. Frankly, neither one of them could have helped themselves. Women in this world are as unable to resist their sexual needs as the men are to resist women's pheromones.

One last quick point on tying Howard to a tree. Again could have been handled better, but definitely for his own good. It's like telling your 10 year old daughter not to go out at night for her own safety, except the 10 year old daughter would know better. Howard would roll out refusing to admit he is less able to defend himself in this world, than a 10 year old girl would be in his old world.

I want Julia to experience being independent and confident and let's see if Howard really can love Julia if he is not able one in the relationship. If so, then I think their relationship will become a deeper one.

And by the way, I thought this was superwomenmania.com? Why would we ever want the nourishment to wear off or the women to LOSE their powers?
The following user(s) said Thank You: Monty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 May 2016 19:25 #47680 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic LaPorte Caves
While I'm horribly behind with this story, I have to compliment Circes for creating something so thought provoking to spark this discussion.

ballen wrote: And by the way, I thought this was superwomenmania.com? Why would we ever want the nourishment to wear off or the women to LOSE their powers?


Yet, on this bit, I have to make a bit of a statement: SWM is a site about female empowerment, something often mistaken for male degradation, but this is not the case. Often stories here feature both elements because it's relatively easy for one to pour into the other, but the focus should not waver. Given that, each and every one of us has different limits in this regard and I think that the point is this: Julia was abused before and was in an uneven relationship?
Yes.
Does that makes okay for her to abuse Howard?
No.
This is the point for -- and, I guess, others -- while it's okay for Julia to showcase her superiority, I don't think that using that superiority to abuse Howard the same way she was abused is okay, retribution isn't part of what I consider female empowerment. Am I saying that she should lose her powers?
Absolutely not, but I don't condone what she did with them either. Howard is a dick, no doubt about that, but that doesn't provide entitlement to repay him the same way.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Time to create page: 0.128 seconds