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Where is everyone????

12 Aug 2017 15:07 #55795 by oogber
Replied by oogber on topic Where is everyone????
Aw thanks Sarge. I will say, I got quite a bit of support but still can't find the discipline to finish the story. Don't know why.

And yeah, the feedback I was thinking of had to do with grammar, formatting, pacing, unclear wording, stuff like that. Nothing to do with the creative process. Everyone has their own little twist on the kink; it would be very annoying for all users to want the story to go their way (I think that's what writing.com is for.) Don't know how you could encourage the writing feedback and not the storyline.

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12 Aug 2017 15:23 #55796 by Sarge395
Replied by Sarge395 on topic Where is everyone????
Ever need simple grammar or other editing I would assist. PM me anytime.

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12 Aug 2017 16:55 #55800 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Where is everyone????

oogber wrote: Aw thanks Sarge. I will say, I got quite a bit of support but still can't find the discipline to finish the story. Don't know why.

And yeah, the feedback I was thinking of had to do with grammar, formatting, pacing, unclear wording, stuff like that. Nothing to do with the creative process. Everyone has their own little twist on the kink; it would be very annoying for all users to want the story to go their way (I think that's what writing.com is for.) Don't know how you could encourage the writing feedback and not the storyline.


The Grammarly software is very helpful for both grammar and spelling. You can get add-ons to your web browser or standalone versions for your PC or Mac that you can run text through even if Grammarly doesn't interface directly with your editing software. Highly recommended.

But it won't help with pacing or plot or character construction and so forth.

Storytelling hasn't changed all that much since the ancient Greeks dissected the art and turned it into science (the Hero's Quest). Today, the people who analyze writing see fiction more as Problem Solving that follows the way our minds work instead of force-fitting it to the Hero paradigm.

While most articles on this subject get dense and complicated very quickly, here's a short and fairly readable discussion that uses modern fictional characters (Luke Skywalker, Spock, etc) as examples.

narrativefirst.com/articles/not-everything-is-a-heros-journey
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13 Aug 2017 00:08 #55803 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Where is everyone????
Interesting read. Tnx for the link Shadar :)

Peace.

/K

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13 Aug 2017 00:39 #55804 by lowerbase
Replied by lowerbase on topic Where is everyone????
For me personally, feedback is the most important tool while writing a series.

Some stuff people posted on forums called my attention on my own story that I hadn't noticed. What people liked, what they got out of it, how they connected the dots. If they reply as I expected, it improves my confidence in the story, if not, it makes me to think.

This kind of conversation is a must.

Most people give feedback because they want more of it, which is always nice for the muse to hear, but very few start this conversation. It doesn't need to be a critique. Actually, critiques are usually useless for the writer. The writer has a narrow window to change his style and literary talents, or to 'fix' things, and this is not a job. Critiques at best might help for the writer to improve on the next project, avoiding to step on the same pitfalls.

The best way to give feedback, imo, is not 'this is the greatest story ever', but talking about its characters, what to expect of them, to where the story is going, what they liked the most, what confuses them, and of course, plot holes. And maybe even saying that they are 'disappointed', or not 'convinced' or 'turned off' by a story turn or a character choice/behavior. It is not the end of the world to know that the story sucks at some point. But is essential for the writer to have clues of why it sucks.

Anyway, any feedback is better than none at all.
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13 Aug 2017 12:32 #55809 by Lucent
Replied by Lucent on topic Where is everyone????
I see the lack of readers and site visitors as due to a lack of new stories. So I saw the question as how to get more new stories. I think the answer lies in increasing the appeal of the site to authors.

I had thought the compensation might be the solution to getting more stories here, because I noticed two of my favorite prolific authors had moved to distributing stories via Patreon.

If the topic ever comes up again, there are mandatory pay walls -- which I do not like and which I find too plentiful, and there is a system to distribute voluntary donations to authors -- which was what I was proposing.


1. I think the consensus of the authors is that we drop the idea of compensation. I'm good with that.


2. The consensus of the authors seems to be that more feedback will encourage them to write more.

The authors know what they want, and we should try to give it to them.

My questions and comments as a regular reader:

a) Authors should be able to see the 'read counts' for their stories. If someone puts the effort into reading part 2, that means they must have at least liked part 1. The read count is the most accurate like/dislike feedback authors can get, and it requires no additional effort from readers.

If authors can't see their story/chapter read counts, then please, could a change be made so they can.

b) Do authors get feedback when we 'favorite' (follow/heart) one of their stories?

I favorite every chapter/story I like, with the assumption that authors know I'm doing it.

b) As a reader, I'd prefer to give a 1 to 5 star ranking, rather than just single Favorite/follow/Heart.

c) Authors who wish critical feedback can add the text "Author requests critical feedback" at the bottom of their stories.

Or Fats could add an option to story posts that would display a caption immediately below the 5 stars, stating either "Author requests critical feedback by comment" or "Author requests critical feedback by Private Feedback".

Would other readers be more comfortable if it was put that way?

Personally as a reader, I avoid saying anything negative about a story unless I either think the author is the sort of person who has the self-confidence to handle it, or the author specifically asks. What I'm afraid of is turning an author off writing -- so I normally try to be as positive as I can.

So if authors want full feedback from readers who think like me, they have to have a way to ask for it.

d) Perhaps below the current comment box, add a box for "Private Feedback To Author".

This would allow those readers who want to stay hidden to send a message that only the author will see.


3. As a reader, I'd still like a faster easier way to find other stories by the same author than searching through the index. I'd like to be able to click on the author's name at the top and see a list of all his stories.

It would be nice to be able to do this from the end of the chapter/story too. Maybe a caption after everything else saying, "Click here to see other stories by this author".

It might be a nice touch if authors could see how often people search for more of their stories.


4. Augoose, to answer your question: This reader had no idea there was a notebook there.


5. On the paypal donation receipt it indicates that the donation is to www.superwomanmania.com I'm single so I don't care. But would the attached guys prefer a less obvious donation subject?

Anyways, those are my thoughts as a regular reader. We should repay the authors as much as we can so they'll write us more stories. And if that means more feedback, that is what we should provide.

Thanks guys.
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13 Aug 2017 17:43 #55810 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Where is everyone????

Lucent wrote: I see the lack of readers and site visitors as due to a lack of new stories. So I saw the question as how to get more new stories. I think the answer lies in increasing the appeal of the site to authors.

I had thought the compensation might be the solution to getting more stories here, because I noticed two of my favorite prolific authors had moved to distributing stories via Patreon.

If the topic ever comes up again, there are mandatory pay walls -- which I do not like and which I find too plentiful, and there is a system to distribute voluntary donations to authors -- which was what I was proposing.


1. I think the consensus of the authors is that we drop the idea of compensation. I'm good with that.


2. The consensus of the authors seems to be that more feedback will encourage them to write more.

The authors know what they want, and we should try to give it to them.

My questions and comments as a regular reader:

a) Authors should be able to see the 'read counts' for their stories. If someone puts the effort into reading part 2, that means they must have at least liked part 1. The read count is the most accurate like/dislike feedback authors can get, and it requires no additional effort from readers.

If authors can't see their story/chapter read counts, then please, could a change be made so they can.

b) Do authors get feedback when we 'favorite' (follow/heart) one of their stories?

I favorite every chapter/story I like, with the assumption that authors know I'm doing it.

b) As a reader, I'd prefer to give a 1 to 5 star ranking, rather than just single Favorite/follow/Heart.

c) Authors who wish critical feedback can add the text "Author requests critical feedback" at the bottom of their stories.

Or Fats could add an option to story posts that would display a caption immediately below the 5 stars, stating either "Author requests critical feedback by comment" or "Author requests critical feedback by Private Feedback".

Would other readers be more comfortable if it was put that way?

Personally as a reader, I avoid saying anything negative about a story unless I either think the author is the sort of person who has the self-confidence to handle it, or the author specifically asks. What I'm afraid of is turning an author off writing -- so I normally try to be as positive as I can.

So if authors want full feedback from readers who think like me, they have to have a way to ask for it.

d) Perhaps below the current comment box, add a box for "Private Feedback To Author".

This would allow those readers who want to stay hidden to send a message that only the author will see.


3. As a reader, I'd still like a faster easier way to find other stories by the same author than searching through the index. I'd like to be able to click on the author's name at the top and see a list of all his stories.

It would be nice to be able to do this from the end of the chapter/story too. Maybe a caption after everything else saying, "Click here to see other stories by this author".

It might be a nice touch if authors could see how often people search for more of their stories.


4. Augoose, to answer your question: This reader had no idea there was a notebook there.


5. On the paypal donation receipt it indicates that the donation is to www.superwomanmania.com I'm single so I don't care. But would the attached guys prefer a less obvious donation subject?


Anyways, those are my thoughts as a regular reader. We should repay the authors as much as we can so they'll write us more stories. And if that means more feedback, that is what we should provide.

Thanks guys.


Really good points, Lucent, except I don't like the 1 - 5 rating system. What does a 2 mean? Does a 1 mean you completely suck? If you rate it a 5, does the author know why?

There is no shortcut to writing at least a sentence or two for every story.

When someone does comment, it would be neat if you had a choice whether to send it as a PM/email, or post it publically. If it is sent privately, there should be a counter that denotes the number of private comments that have been sent. That's further affirmation that everyone can see. God forbid we have a lonely, uncommented story.

I personally think public comments are better than private in most cases as they can generate further discussion, and public comments require us to be a bit nuanced and polite and helpful. But I understand that some new writers haven't built up any scar tissue yet. Criticism can be pretty challenging to read after you've poured your heart and soul into a story. But it's required to produce better stories.. I think of it as medicine -- you don't take it for pleasure but to get better.

One thing we can't avoid, and don't want to, is that we've got authors who are dipping their toe in the water for the first time, and are high in inspiration but low in experience. There are others of us who have posted dozens up to hundreds of stories on the Web and can handle any kind of feedback.

Right now we're racing old Volkswagon Beetles (which I once truly loved) on the same track, at the same time, as Porsche Turbo 911's. We have to be very aware of the differences in 'speed'.

I would suggest we have a way to denote New Writer, which is a self-declared label that one can attach to their story (and to subsequent stories for as long as they wish). It basically says you're trying your hand at writing, and/or you haven't written enough yet to be comfortable with it all, and you are probably more fueled by inspiration than by craft, and feedback should be gentle but helpful.

For that kind of writer, feedback on the inspiration and characterization is more important than picking at the grammar, plot or other elements of traditional storytelling. In fact, comments on spelling and grammar are pretty useless in general unless it makes the story challenging to read. Better to focus on genre elements of the story and less on construction and craft.

For others, who have been around the block a few times, we leave that label off and are in effect inviting more critical feedback, including comments on craft, that might be more direct and less nuanced. We've got thick skins.

In the end, a minimum of a half dozen people replying on each story will provide a lot of inspiration for new ones.

I plan to discipline myself to commenting on each and every story posted from this day forward. It only takes a few comments to make a BIG difference in author enthusiasm.

Shadar
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13 Aug 2017 18:41 #55812 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Where is everyone????
Shadar, I think a New Writer's section would be a welcome addition to the site.

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14 Aug 2017 20:09 #55823 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Where is everyone????

Monty wrote: Shadar, I think a New Writer's section would be a welcome addition to the site.


Rather than a section, I think it will work much better as a tag or a label appearing in the front page list.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
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14 Aug 2017 23:07 - 14 Aug 2017 23:13 #55826 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Where is everyone????
Shadar wrote:

<<I would suggest we have a way to denote New Writer, which is a self-declared label that one can attach to their story (and to subsequent stories for as long as they wish). It basically says you're trying your hand at writing, and/or you haven't written enough yet to be comfortable with it all, and you are probably more fueled by inspiration than by craft, and feedback should be gentle but helpful.>>

I'll never be a new writer again, but I'd like to encourage new writers who are into Aurora Universe fiction by offering them a place at The Bright Empire as well as here.

Not only that, but I herewith offer them a chance to write trial scenes for Empress of the Dawn III ( www.brightempire.com/Empress-3.pdf ), leading up to and including the Battle of the Triple Moons. Of course, they'd have to have some familiarity with the whole Empress epic, and I can't guarantee I could use any of their contributions verbatim, But they might inspire me with new approaches to the story that could be integrated into my own, overcoming my long delay in wrapping up the series. Full credit if that should happen...

Hey, and if any of you find fault with what I've already done and offer suggestions for improvements that make sense to me...

--Brantley Thompson Elkins
Last edit: 14 Aug 2017 23:13 by brantley.

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16 Aug 2017 20:17 #55843 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Where is everyone????
Well, more than three dozen people have hit on the link. Maybe a few will speak up.

--Brantley

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16 Aug 2017 20:24 #55845 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Where is everyone????

brantley wrote: Well, more than three dozen people have hit on the link. Maybe a few will speak up.

--Brantley



Ah, Brantley, the purpose of this thread was to discuss how to increase participation here on SWM, and that morphed into ways to increase the number of stories posted here. From there we focused on ways to increase feedback to SWM authors who post here on SWM.

Your hijacking the thread to try to drum up readers for your site is a bit inappropriate considering the subject at hand.

Or so I see it...

Shadar

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16 Aug 2017 21:53 #55847 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Where is everyone????
Okay, I'll leave off here and stick to my own update thread. But I'll try to follow new SWM stories and comment on same. Should be more interesting than the Mon El... er, Supergirl show.

--Brantley

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16 Aug 2017 22:51 #55849 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Where is everyone????

brantley wrote: Okay, I'll leave off here and stick to my own update thread. But I'll try to follow new SWM stories and comment on same. Should be more interesting than the Mon El... er, Supergirl show.

--Brantley


I agree on more interesting than Mon El.

On a related note to Fats or Woodclaw... is the library working well enough to post a story? I'm not quite ready, but getting close. As always... my writing always takes longer than I plan.

Shadar

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16 Aug 2017 23:27 #55850 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Where is everyone????
please hold off until Monday as the site rebuild will be uploaded on Sunday.

Fats

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17 Aug 2017 00:01 #55853 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Where is everyone????

fats wrote: please hold off until Monday as the site rebuild will be uploaded on Sunday.

Fats


Sounds good, Fats. Probably take me until then to be ready. Amazing how fast the weeks fly by.

Shadar

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17 Aug 2017 04:58 #55859 by Pepper
Replied by Pepper on topic Where is everyone????

shadar wrote: On a related note to Fats or Woodclaw... is the library working well enough to post a story? I'm not quite ready, but getting close. As always... my writing always takes longer than I plan.

fats wrote: please hold off until Monday as the site rebuild will be uploaded on Sunday.

Can you tell us if any submissions are waiting in the wings for Monday?

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17 Aug 2017 17:17 #55860 by circes_cup
Replied by circes_cup on topic Where is everyone????
Since this thread was started, there have been plenty of insightful responses and interesting ideas aired. Given that the thread has been ongoing for several weeks now and has received dozens of responses, it would be helpful to get some closure on the conversation.

Fats, as the person who started this thread, can you let us know which ideas presented here are most compelling to you, ie, the ones most likely to be flagged for implementation on the site?

And for everyone else, how has this conversation affected the specifics ways in which you plan to participate in the site? For example, Shadar mentioned that he planned to make a point of commenting on every story. I'd be curious to hear what others have concluded.

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18 Aug 2017 21:39 #55878 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Where is everyone????

Pepper wrote:

shadar wrote: On a related note to Fats or Woodclaw... is the library working well enough to post a story? I'm not quite ready, but getting close. As always... my writing always takes longer than I plan.

fats wrote: please hold off until Monday as the site rebuild will be uploaded on Sunday.

Can you tell us if any submissions are waiting in the wings for Monday?


There are a couple, although it might take just a day or two more, as I wasn't able to reformat them properly, yet.

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19 Aug 2017 15:40 - 19 Aug 2017 15:41 #55892 by Sarge395
Replied by Sarge395 on topic Where is everyone????
Not any type of New Years goals here but this is what I do.
- Hit the 'thank you' button. Its something.
- Comment, and go look back at old posts. Maybe spark them back up if new material has come up.
- Kick in some $ to the SWM site when needed.
- Use Patreon/Kickstarter etc. for a few artists, writers, vid makers.
- Post what I find interesting in the fetish we all enjoy.
- Sell/donate/gift a few costumes now and then. My plan to activate the powers within them is moving along to plan.
- Not leave negative gripes. Don't like it, don't comment. Don't turn people off. Try to stay out of the politics. Bombarded with it everywhere else. I'm a freedom loving Libertarian. My beliefs center around personal accountability, the use of friends/family/community over government in any form, freedom of action, property rights, charity, and non intervention. I've seen too many 'good idea fairies' enact crazy policies, programs, and projects that either backfired or went to some corrupt Pol's pockets. Sorry, started a rant.
- Purchase genre products outright and personally fund a few that I would like to see. I will say that I have found videos that were pirated and ended up watching them. Only to go and buy them afterwards. Not so much out of guilt but out of 'I WANT MORE'.
- And maybe get another model for my own quick Supergirl costume shoots. Was so much fun. I wish I had better camera skills...
Last edit: 19 Aug 2017 15:41 by Sarge395. Reason: Added another bullet point.
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