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Where is everyone????
Fats
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- fats
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lowerbase wrote:
Since you guys talked about workshops, I'm one of those guys who would like to be in it, but not in a form of a competition. To me, 'workshop' should be a collective effort to build something together. I know that some writers/artists are adamant about their vision, but some would like to do something 'bigger' along other people. I wish there was a story 'BE chain adventure' just for superwomen, or something alike
That would actually be an interesting point. We had some attempts at interactive stories here, but they were only forum posts stuck together, rather than having the possibility to branch off into different directions. I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement, though. Not sure if there's an interactive story addon for Joomla.
I also have a bit of a mixed opinion about the image galleries. At some point in the past, SWM had the goal to have the best library for stories. I think a bit of that got lost when the Supergirl TV series appeared. Earlier we had a dedicated comment ticker to show and encourage story feedback. Now we only have a sub-forum that requires an extra click to be seen. It feels a bit like the focus shifted by trying to cater to all possible tastes - but maybe that's just me. It still feels like there are fewer entries in the library, or maybe it only appears that way because most of it are a couple of long running stories.
So, I am not against a gallery in itself, I personally like artwork in a story. But I am just not sure if a gallery could hold up against stuff like DA? Is there a way to integrate DA links/folders into the site? That way the gallery would be hosted at a site specializing in it. It's a question of space after all.
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- njae
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- LustMonster
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Another area where we could create more appeal would be the library. It's easy to post stories and to find the most recent ones. It's very hard to go back and read the old stuff. For example, as an experiment, I tried to find everything in the library by Marknew, and I wasn't able to do it. "Sort by author" got me to the "A" authors, but author names were not displayed on the story list. Even if those were displayed, I would have to guess where the "M" might fall in the page sequence -- are they on page 10, 20, 30? And often, the library seems to "lose track" of which sort order I am using as I page through. Other story archives take as simpler approach: I have seen many were a simple click on the author's name will get you to their full list of works. More tinkering with the infrastrure here may produce dividends in terms of usership.
All of these ideas create lots of work for Fats. And the gallery one may have some cost associated with it too. But if the question is "how do we make the site more relevant/appealing", then that's my two cents on what would make a big difference.
Whatever sort of content we're talking about -- whether it's simple stories, collaborative stories, writing contests, mentoring writers, or adding image galleries -- I believe that the future of the site lies primarily in the content generated by users, and not in the content generated by Hollywood or other institutional media. When we discuss and debate the content to which we have some connection, I've noticed that the discussion feels much more positive and party-like than those time we are discussing content over which we have no control.
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- circes_cup
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circes_cup wrote: ...
Another area where we could create more appeal would be the library. It's easy to post stories and to find the most recent ones. It's very hard to go back and read the old stuff. For example, as an experiment, I tried to find everything in the library by Marknew, and I wasn't able to do it. "Sort by author" got me to the "A" authors, but author names were not displayed on the story list. Even if those were displayed, I would have to guess where the "M" might fall in the page sequence -- are they on page 10, 20, 30? And often, the library seems to "lose track" of which sort order I am using as I page through. Other story archives take as simpler approach: I have seen many were a simple click on the author's name will get you to their full list of works. More tinkering with the infrastrure here may produce dividends in terms of usership.
...
Back in my time, I introduced a "classic view" that emulated the old list found in the storybank of the original site (pre-2011). It was a bit easier to sort through as each story only had one row rather than the lot of space it has now.
Another problem with the Sort By Author is that it sorts by the "name" rather than the "username". So if anybody used a different name in this field (in his profile), the stories would be sorted based on that. And since these names aren't displayed it looks like the sorting is off, but it isn't. Tried to fix it back in the day but didn't get anywhere in the backend options. Best solution would probably to update the database by overwriting the name with the username.
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- njae
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On the issue of the library, the software has just received a MAJOR update, with over 300 updates and changes, I've not fully explored the changes and I'm not sure how these will impact on the library but I'm hopeful that the issues that we've had are now sorted.
Fats
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1) It's fantastic to see "read" counts of a story, updated real time. Nothing beats seeing your latest story getting read when it comes to motivating more writing.
2) I liked when comments were attached to the stories.
3) As others have noted, the current search and indexing functions leave lots of room for improvement.
I believe that providing feedback to the authors, whether hit counts or comments or LIKES, is vital to encouraging more stories. While we all like comments, LIKES and read counts are more motivating than it would first seem. Authors will take encouragement wherever they can get it, but the lack of ANY kind of feedback is demotivating.
As far as reading, I for one am an absolute nut about formatting. As it is, I use the Mac's Reader software to format the stories in the SWM library before I read them. Sometimes that's OK, but not always.
Of lessor priority, it would be nice to be able to release stories in EPUB e-book format. The organization and formatting options that modern editors have available can be fully utilized in .epub format, leading to a controlled and repeatable experience for all readers.
EPUB is readable by many PC and Mac programs, and can easily be converted to Kindle .mobi format with free utilities, if Kindle is your preferred reader (as it is for me).
Shadar
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shadar wrote: I'll wade in with some thoughts on desirable improvements for the story library.
1) It's fantastic to see "read" counts of a story, updated real time. Nothing beats seeing your latest story getting read when it comes to motivating more writing.
2) I liked when comments were attached to the stories.
3) As others have noted, the current search and indexing functions leave lots of room for improvement.
I believe that providing feedback to the authors, whether hit counts or comments or LIKES, is vital to encouraging more stories. While we all like comments, LIKES and read counts are more motivating than it would first seem. Authors will take encouragement wherever they can get it, but the lack of ANY kind of feedback is demotivating.
As far as reading, I for one am an absolute nut about formatting. As it is, I use the Mac's Reader software to format the stories in the SWM library before I read them. Sometimes that's OK, but not always.
Of lessor priority, it would be nice to be able to release stories in EPUB e-book format. The organization and formatting options that modern editors have available can be fully utilized in .epub format, leading to a controlled and repeatable experience for all readers.
EPUB is readable by many PC and Mac programs, and can easily be converted to Kindle .mobi format with free utilities, if Kindle is your preferred reader (as it is for me).
Shadar
I would like to answer the points that you have raised if i may,
read counts - something that I can add
comments below the stories - again it can be added
search and indexing - there have been issues with the previous version of the software, I've not checked the current one so I'm not sure how those issues have resolved - it will be looked in to.
Now the biggest issue is downloading of stories into epub or mobi fotmats, I've looked into that and to do it all the stories would need to be copied from the library and made into doc files and then converted to mobi or epub files, the problems with that other than the issue of time to do the work is the issue of having the files in an easy to get format that could be copied on mass, it's one that we've [admins] have looked at in the past and we've felt that there could be a whole number of issues with it so we never moved forward with it.
Story formatting is an other point, when a new story is submitted woodclaw formats it to a style that he's come up with I think it would be useful for people to have a copy of the specs of the style so that when stories are uploaded the author can pre-format the story so it will save time for woodclaw and get stories to the site faster.
Fats
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- fats
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:
- I've always seen a significant downturn in traffic in the summer on the web-pages I owned.
- Very recently I've found myself going to the supergirl.tv main page for news a fair amount. I don't use their forums - I've not joined.
- I'm following a few SGCW people on Twitter.
- I'm using Instagram a lot to check out any good pictures/cosplays/news but do wish some of the non related or repetative content wasn't there..
- I was using Tumblr for a while but I grew tired of the gif's attitude ~ it seemed to take a turn like "myspace" did back in the day.
- I feel like the quality and quantity on devaintart.com has fallen off.
- I use forums - but mostly to learn new in depth things and collaborate on issues.
- I'm feeling opinion-ed to death on the internet and starved for quality and respectful conversation/discourse in person.
What would get me clicking on SWM more often? I'll check out the media feed/gallery fats has set up that's a good start. An easy mobile first experience - I do 90% of my pleasure web surfing on mobile now. Is it possible to keep more than just the first/one article showing on the front page? SWM covers a broad range of things but it feels like some of the menus have a lot of sub-menus so I rarely navigate the full page. Of course content is king - maybe there is something I can do to help that - but having unfiltered feeds like twitter doesn't help - but then again filtering takes a lot of effort or means some fun items are missed. No sliver bullet...
(***The good news is I made a change 30 days ago where and I'm getting some time for myself again).
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- Random321
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fats wrote:
shadar wrote: I'll wade in with some thoughts on desirable improvements for the story library.
1) It's fantastic to see "read" counts of a story, updated real time. Nothing beats seeing your latest story getting read when it comes to motivating more writing.
2) I liked when comments were attached to the stories.
3) As others have noted, the current search and indexing functions leave lots of room for improvement.
I believe that providing feedback to the authors, whether hit counts or comments or LIKES, is vital to encouraging more stories. While we all like comments, LIKES and read counts are more motivating than it would first seem. Authors will take encouragement wherever they can get it, but the lack of ANY kind of feedback is demotivating.
As far as reading, I for one am an absolute nut about formatting. As it is, I use the Mac's Reader software to format the stories in the SWM library before I read them. Sometimes that's OK, but not always.
Of lessor priority, it would be nice to be able to release stories in EPUB e-book format. The organization and formatting options that modern editors have available can be fully utilized in .epub format, leading to a controlled and repeatable experience for all readers.
EPUB is readable by many PC and Mac programs, and can easily be converted to Kindle .mobi format with free utilities, if Kindle is your preferred reader (as it is for me).
Shadar
I would like to answer the points that you have raised if i may,
read counts - something that I can add
comments below the stories - again it can be added
search and indexing - there have been issues with the previous version of the software, I've not checked the current one so I'm not sure how those issues have resolved - it will be looked in to.
Now the biggest issue is downloading of stories into epub or mobi fotmats, I've looked into that and to do it all the stories would need to be copied from the library and made into doc files and then converted to mobi or epub files, the problems with that other than the issue of time to do the work is the issue of having the files in an easy to get format that could be copied on mass, it's one that we've [admins] have looked at in the past and we've felt that there could be a whole number of issues with it so we never moved forward with it.
Story formatting is an other point, when a new story is submitted woodclaw formats it to a style that he's come up with I think it would be useful for people to have a copy of the specs of the style so that when stories are uploaded the author can pre-format the story so it will save time for woodclaw and get stories to the site faster.
Fats
Sounds good, Fats.
As far as EPUB goes, I was thinking instead of having an option to Upload stories in that format, which would then be downloaded as is, ensuring the author's formatting is preserved.
The obvious problem with that is that it would make it harder for Woodclaw to reformat. But my presumption in the upload is that it won't need that. Clearly, that will depend on the author.
I see this more as an option for some more experienced authors who are obsessive about their formatting (like me), but that most story submissions would still operate much as they do now, with HTML formatting. I just don't like using the online tools provided on SWM.
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- shadar
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Woodclaw wrote:
Markiehoe wrote: It is kind of tough for the people that are here to respond why people have left'
Why not seek out active and semi active members that no longer visit and contact them?
I assume you have a data base of e-mails.
One of the big problems is that often people doesn't update their e-mails and many accounts have out of date informations that makes more complicate to contact the users.
It is weird out there right now.
I Admin a Facebook group.
We had a very active member.
Posted all the time.
He dropped out today.
I personally contacted him to find out why and got the cold shoulder.
Weird.
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- Markiehoe
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fats wrote:
shadar wrote: I'll wade in with some thoughts on desirable improvements for the story library.
1) It's fantastic to see "read" counts of a story, updated real time. Nothing beats seeing your latest story getting read when it comes to motivating more writing.
2) I liked when comments were attached to the stories.
3) As others have noted, the current search and indexing functions leave lots of room for improvement.
I believe that providing feedback to the authors, whether hit counts or comments or LIKES, is vital to encouraging more stories. While we all like comments, LIKES and read counts are more motivating than it would first seem. Authors will take encouragement wherever they can get it, but the lack of ANY kind of feedback is demotivating.
As far as reading, I for one am an absolute nut about formatting. As it is, I use the Mac's Reader software to format the stories in the SWM library before I read them. Sometimes that's OK, but not always.
Of lessor priority, it would be nice to be able to release stories in EPUB e-book format. The organization and formatting options that modern editors have available can be fully utilized in .epub format, leading to a controlled and repeatable experience for all readers.
EPUB is readable by many PC and Mac programs, and can easily be converted to Kindle .mobi format with free utilities, if Kindle is your preferred reader (as it is for me).
Shadar
I would like to answer the points that you have raised if i may,
read counts - something that I can add
comments below the stories - again it can be added
search and indexing - there have been issues with the previous version of the software, I've not checked the current one so I'm not sure how those issues have resolved - it will be looked in to.
Now the biggest issue is downloading of stories into epub or mobi fotmats, I've looked into that and to do it all the stories would need to be copied from the library and made into doc files and then converted to mobi or epub files, the problems with that other than the issue of time to do the work is the issue of having the files in an easy to get format that could be copied on mass, it's one that we've [admins] have looked at in the past and we've felt that there could be a whole number of issues with it so we never moved forward with it.
Story formatting is an other point, when a new story is submitted woodclaw formats it to a style that he's come up with I think it would be useful for people to have a copy of the specs of the style so that when stories are uploaded the author can pre-format the story so it will save time for woodclaw and get stories to the site faster.
Fats
I have to point out that some of the formatting I have to do manually straight into the html code because in some previous iterations of our library software certain changesit didn't carry over. I don't knwo abou the most recent update. I think that the e-book format might be a good idea, but not as the main file, but rather as a "print" option alongside a .pdf print option for those who want to store and save they favorite pieces.
One more thing: the read count is a double edged sword, on one hand it's a great motivational tool for some writers, but it's also very easy for some people to grow obsessed, which is why we decided to remove it the first time.
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- slim36
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I posted a string of pics a few years ago, but I stopped because I didn't think people enjoyed them all that much. I kinda felt it was the wrong place for them at the time. That said, I think the gallery idea is great one.
It takes a lot of time and energy to maintain a site like this, something I sometimes forget. Huge thanjs to Fats and the team for keeping my favourite internet site not only up and running but evolving too. I wish I could do more to help...
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- Dru1076
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Woodclaw wrote: I have to point out that some of the formatting I have to do manually straight into the html code because in some previous iterations of our library software certain changesit didn't carry over. I don't knwo abou the most recent update. I think that the e-book format might be a good idea, but not as the main file, but rather as a "print" option alongside a .pdf print option for those who want to store and save they favorite pieces.
One more thing: the read count is a double edged sword, on one hand it's a great motivational tool for some writers, but it's also very easy for some people to grow obsessed, which is why we decided to remove it the first time.
From my perspective, it seems a shame to deny a motivational tool for everyone based on a few people who somehow had problems with it
Shadar
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- shadar
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Based on the recent discussion concerning the apparent lack of activity on the site, I thought it might be worthwhile for you to get some feedback from a lurker, and one time (only) contributor. These comments are observations and opinions, rather than criticisms. I do think that any genre website faces an uphill battle given the current form of the web. Even 10 years ago, sites of related interest tended to link to each other, as the web intended. Now, for the most part, websites are very self-contained and it is unlikely that a person with an interest in genre fiction will find this site even if they happen to stumble into one with related content.
To an extent, this is simply how the web now works. It also means that if you don't have any form of social media presence (to use a horrible marketing term) then I think it is increasingly difficult to attract or find new uses. If you were brave enough (!) to undertake a demographic study of your members, I think you would find many are in the 40 to 50 year old age group. Being a lurker of long-standing, some of the regular contributors must almost definitely fit within the category. As one would think that it is statistically unlikely that the demographic itself has changed (in this context, meaning the number of people interested in fiction of this genre) then it is a reasonable assumption that people interested in this subject are not easily finding the website.
I also wonder if some of the tinkering with the site has made it more difficult to determine its target audience. Originally, my recollection was that the site was intended to showcase more serious works relating to the superwoman theme. However, if I was a new user looking at the site in isolation, I would think that it was more a Supergirl fan page. Although you certainly won't lose any existing members by switching to the comic sans typeface, that decision combined with the current color scheme and emphasis on the Supergirl TV series (with its own forum heading and the countdown) may encourage some people to think that the site is just a fansite, as opposed to something intended to promote independent creative work. There was a suggestion in one part of this thread that a movement to shorter pieces of fiction would be encouraged; I would be disappointed by this, as I think it would confirm, to an outsider, that the site isn't really about serious attempts at genre fiction
Finally, on a slightly unrelated note, when I did make my one attempt to write and publish a story I found the process somewhat opaque. I was extremely surprised that it was not possible (at least I couldn't find the option) to upload prewritten stories as either plaintext or in markdown formatting. Some members had made brave efforts to provide guides explaining the process, but they still were of limited assistance. I'm not technically illiterate, and I don't think the process should be anywhere near as difficult as it seems. Also on the technical side, I also recollect that images were originally removed due to bandwidth considerations. Have you looked at the overhead created by the content management system you are using? The stylesheet headers are approaching 40 or 50k, which is borderline obscene when applied to stories of which the actual content is sometimes less than half of that.
As much as I hate to say it, I think that the site needs some form of promotion so that its existence is brought to the attention of its actual demographic. Perhaps we should combine some of AuGoose's creations with some DeviantArt work, create a Twitter handle, and see what happens?
In conclusion, I reemphasise that this is not intended to be a criticism in any way. I simply think that the way the web has developed at the moment tends to promote, to a ridiculous extent, what is trendy for the moment, effectively crowding-out much other material.
Having written a comment this long, perhaps I will try and write a proper story by the end of the month…
Cheers all.
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- HendrixLives
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I would like to thank everyone for their input. It will really help make things better. And if there are more ideas out there, let's hear them!
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- ace191
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HendrixLives wrote: Finally, on a slightly unrelated note, when I did make my one attempt to write and publish a story I found the process somewhat opaque. I was extremely surprised that it was not possible (at least I couldn't find the option) to upload prewritten stories as either plaintext or in markdown formatting. Some members had made brave efforts to provide guides explaining the process, but they still were of limited assistance. I'm not technically illiterate, and I don't think the process should be anywhere near as difficult as it seems.
On this count, it's entirely possible to upload pre-written stories by doing a copy/paste of the original text from the word processor and, in any case, when there are any kind of problem in this sense you can always contact me via PM or e-mail. Sometimes I might not be around, but I do my best to explain and help. Also, if there's no other solution you can always send me the story file and I can force upload it.
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- Woodclaw
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* I haven't noticed a wave of negativity, let alone been influenced by it.
* I have noticed that it's hard to search for and find stories by author.
* I once started a round-robin story, but attracted few robins; had to finish it up myself as "When We Dead Awaken" at The Bright Empire.
* I've rarely seen any comments on my stories here at SWM; in the last few years, it's been the same at AURG.
* A number of superheroine fiction writers have gafiated in recent years.
* Supergirl and Wonder Woman are obviously more popular subjects than our own amateur fiction. But they get far more attention elsewhere.
* Pictures are obviously more popular than prose, though I wonder why there was such an obsession with the West Twins for a while.
--Brantley
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- brantley
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Besides....there arn't any new stories. I've been waiting for the new and improved Infinity Crisis for years now.
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- pithlit
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I prefer the written word...but I do hear guys are more visual.
I visit less now that the stories have slowed down. I used to visit every day when there were multiple stories per week. I'm not sure what happened.
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- pithlit
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pithlit wrote: Shadar & Brantley, I still visit your sites. I am glad you stuck to your story concepts.
I prefer the written word...but I do hear guys are more visual.
I visit less now that the stories have slowed down. I used to visit every day when there were multiple stories per week. I'm not sure what happened.
Well, it would help to have feedback. Including criticism.
From my stats, I know there is continuing interest in the Empress of the Dawn and First Protector series. But two stories I thought would have strong appeal, Delphic Obstacles and my conclusion to Walking Tall,* have been flops. Obviously I was doing something wrong, but I don't know what it was. If you know,please be blunt.
And I'd also welcome suggestions for future stories and story lines. No doubt Shadar would too. I know where Empress and First Protector need to go, but the Aurora Universe has potential for other stories and even epics.
Please share your thoughts in the Bright Empire thread here and at AURG. I hope others will do the same.
--Brantley
* Jordan Taylor's part had always done well.
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- brantley
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I find that for a lot of people, a ton of stuff competes for our time especially now there's so much crap out there on the 'net. So, "why spend time here?" is one question someone might ask themselves.
Darling, I spend time here because it appeals to my own ego and I love the women here too..... and the men to an extent. The food could be better. It's part of my lifestyle.
The hate is part of the internet culture in my opinion. Why be weak in real life when you can pour so much acid and kryptonite as you want on-line? Bullocks! So the internet gods have given everyone a voice and now the internet is as noisy as a galaxy-sized ass farting on a planet. I utterly don't enjoy the poisonous environments made by the fact that you're protected by virtual text.
One of these days, I should fly over and pay a visit to these twits who have never seen someone lift a car.
That aside, might be a good idea to see if there's ways to bring on new superwomen on this site let alone normal women (fictional or non-fictional) since, people on here already like and seek out superwomen? So why not have MORE? MUCH MORE?! *licks lips*
I'm not too sure many people know much about this place either. The subject matter might be niche depending on who you talk to.
Nonetheless Fats, you're doing a lovely job with the place and I simply enjoy relaxing and doing as I please and most here are quite respectful too. Keep up the good work!
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- Mynn
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pithlit wrote: Shadar & Brantley, I still visit your sites. I am glad you stuck to your story concepts.
I prefer the written word...but I do hear guys are more visual.
I visit less now that the stories have slowed down. I used to visit every day when there were multiple stories per week. I'm not sure what happened.
I'm kind of semi-retired, but I've always got a few stories I'm working on. Whatever I do get whipped into good enough shape to share, I share here on SWM.
It's too much hassle to run my own site when SWM provides a library, a forum and a great bunch of enthusiasts who love this genre.
Shadar
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- shadar
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It's sad because the community here is really well-mannered, educated and above all very respectful.
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