XENA! I mean Wonder Woman

AJF wrote: Didn't people back in 1989 make a big fuss about Michael Keaton's all-black batsuit as well?[/quote

You could write the quote

Didn't People back in ........ make a big fuss about ........ alll...........costume as well?

Pretty much every super suite, with the exception of sequals has generated a lot of controversy. Maybe you liked it--but someone hated it.

AJF wrote: Didn't people back in 1989 make a big fuss about Michael Keaton's all-black batsuit as well?

Black was always one of Batman's colors. Brown has never been one of Wonder Woman's colors. Bronze she could pull off, and would be thematically appropriate given her origins in Greek mythology. Brown, not so much.

Why does hating on everything BM v SM related seem to be the "in" thing to do on the internet nowadays?

The costume looks great! Gal looks great! I really don't understand what people are complaining about? Sure, the colors are muted in that picture but I've seen people brighten it and remove the filters and, guess what, it's red and blue, not brown.

There is no way, in 2016 (when the movie is released), they were going to go with her star spangled swimsuit costume. In fact, something along these lines was exactly what I was expecting. The only minor thing I might change is to make her skirt in the front a little bit longer.

The comparisons to Xena are silly.. People do know that Wonder Woman was around approximately 50 years before Xena, right? If anything, Xena is a clone of WW and not the other way around.

Oh, and that bit about the "Nazi eagle" is just too ridiculous to dignify with a comment.

shadar wrote: Lastly, on a philosophical note, I wonder if there is a connection between American political conservatism and comic book conservatism? Both schools of thought believe that all good things happened in the past, are resistant to change and pessimistic about the future, and they are very judgemental. In the case of WW, they both wrap themselves in star-spangled displays of American patriotism. If we can say anything about MOS and its spin-offs, it's that they look forward and not back. So is there a lot of overlap between those two groups? Or is comic book conservatism its own phenomena?

I completely disagree with your philosophical premise and hope that you can divorce politics from this analysis. Your three points are simply opinion.

Actually, those points (except the judgmental part) are more or less the dictionary definition of conservatism:

con·ser·va·tism noun \kən-ˈsər-və-ˌti-zəm\
: belief in the value of established and traditional practices in politics and society
: dislike of change or new ideas in a particular area

It's actually relevant given that comic book conservatism says to retain characters, backstories, costumes, relationships, motivations, etc. as they were portrayed historically. Most of the heated WW discussion has to do with the fear of abandoning the past and replacing that with new symbols, roles, motivations and costumes. In other words, comic book progressivism.

But I agree, lets leave politics completely out of this. Instead, I will narrow the question to wondering if there is a correlation between social conservatism and comic book conservatism. If true, then this could help predict how these kinds of movies will be made, given that the movie-going audience tends to be younger (and as always, younger means more socially liberal) and that Hollywood is predominately made up of socially-liberal progressives.

However, if this is unrelated, then we need to look for other predictors of how our genre movies might be made in the future. Either way, it's interesting to me, especially if we want to influence how our favorite characters might be portrayed.

For my part, I believe WW needs a lot of changes to make sense to audiences today and in the future, including her costume, motivations, sexuality, relationships and behavior, and I believe the best WW story has yet to be written. And I'm a social liberal.

Shadar

algae2k wrote:

shadar wrote: Lastly, on a philosophical note, I wonder if there is a connection between American political conservatism and comic book conservatism? Both schools of thought believe that all good things happened in the past, are resistant to change and pessimistic about the future, and they are very judgemental. In the case of WW, they both wrap themselves in star-spangled displays of American patriotism. If we can say anything about MOS and its spin-offs, it's that they look forward and not back. So is there a lot of overlap between those two groups? Or is comic book conservatism its own phenomena?

I completely disagree with your philosophical premise and hope that you can divorce politics from this analysis. Your three points are simply opinion.

The biggest grossing Superhero movie of 2014 Is Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

In that movie Cap trades in his new Black uniform for his traditional Red White and Blue costume.

In doing so he has rejected the New World Order presented to him by Fury on one side and Hydra on the other and he returned to his traditional, conservative 1940s values.

I see no reason why Wonder Woman can not be portrayed in a similar fashion.

Actually looking at it agian the one thing that really could be bothering-well shes wearing either high heels or the kind of platform shoes that are effectivly the same.

I realize the theroes of Fifth Wave Feminism- but Thats not very practical for a superhero who is suposed to walk around a lot.

Castor

Maybe its because he's called Captain America. He's defined as being a red, white and blue American patriot and soldier.

WW isn't an American. She's not even human. She isn't from this world (you can't exactly hide tropical islands covered in Greek-style architecture and thousands of super-strong warrior women living an ancient lifestyle). WW lives in a culture that is unchanged from the ancient Greeks, and they are in frequent communication with their gods, who sometimes walk among them.

Given that, I would think the most likely outfit for her to wear would be one that comes out of that legacy, and not some WWII propaganda machine. Just because WW started off in the comics fighting Nazis on the side of the US doesn't mean she should be portrayed that way now.

Remember that the TV series was set in that time period as well, so the costume made some sense. The SvB movie is set in current time.

Shadar

Markiehoe wrote: The biggest grossing Superhero movie of 2014 Is Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

In that movie Cap trades in his new Black uniform for his traditional Red White and Blue costume.

In doing so he has rejected the New World Order presented to him by Fury on one side and Hydra on the other and he returned to his traditional, conservative 1940s values.

I see no reason why Wonder Woman can not be portrayed in a similar fashion.

All low brow propaganda!

shadar wrote: Maybe its because he's called Captain America. He's defined as being a red, white and blue American patriot and soldier.

WW isn't an American. She's not even human. She isn't from this world (you can't exactly hide tropical islands covered in Greek-style architecture and thousands of super-strong warrior women living an ancient lifestyle). WW lives in a culture that is unchanged from the ancient Greeks, and they are in frequent communication with their gods, who sometimes walk among them.

Given that, I would think the most likely outfit for her to wear would be one that comes out of that legacy, and not some WWII propaganda machine. Just because WW started off in the comics fighting Nazis on the side of the US doesn't mean she should be portrayed that way now.

Remember that the TV series was set in that time period as well, so the costume made some sense. The SvB movie is set in current time.

Shadar

Thank you! I was just going to reply with these exact words.

There is no logical reason for WW to be wearing an American flag in the present day. It doesn't make any sense.

Exactly...and i was just thinking, the wonder woman fan film done by Rainfall, if that costume had be in it

1) it would fit in perfectly, and

2) everyone would be saying that its an interesting take on the costume

Ugly uniform... I could look past it if the actress looked the part, but this skinny girl next door typeis NOT Wonder Woman

AJF wrote: Didn't people back in 1989 make a big fuss about Michael Keaton's all-black batsuit as well?

I still have a sci-fi fans magazine from the 80's where they talk about just that.

As for WW: I am also hoping the colors are just muted for the poster. I also see how it could have been far worse. I see the Xena parallels - yes - but I'm going to reserve judgment. If I didn't have prejudices from liking Lynda Carter I might actually be 100% on board. I like my batman working as a detective and dark. I like my superman hopeful and light. I like my WW balanced between the two.

What scares me more than any outfit is what they do with the action and story around WW. If she's just swinging a sword around or if she doesn't have a good moral/character grounding I'll be disappointed. Oh - and I really hope she gets an alter ego that is equally respected and powerful just in a different way.

I think the more muted colors will work for this movie. I saw the (fuzzy) comic-con trailer and it looks very Frank Miller, right down to Batman's glowing white eyes.
I know it's just a teaser, but it gives me hope for this movie.