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Wonder Woman Director leaves project

15 Apr 2015 23:49 #41494 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

castor wrote: Heres the thing. Dark Knight as a film like all of Nolan's Films is far from perfect, but i would argue its better then any of the Marve Studio Movies. All three of the movies are good. Man of Steel is ambitious movie, that yeah is a faiilure but its not from "lets copy marvel". Green Lantern...Yes is kinda of a copy, but its also more ambioutous in special effectsany of the marvel movies-its also a direction they have all but disavowed.

Yes they aren't batting a 100% but neither is Marvel, and they are as a default going for something more serious and at least trying for ideas. So good.

I do have some kinda hope for Batman Vs Superman. It does sound interest. All of the Movies they announced-From Sucide Squad, To Wonder Woman to Cyborg sound neat/. They can do this.

Ps. And for the Record: Iron Man 2 has a middle thats way to soggy for its own good, Captian America 1 just doesn't have much of a story, I sometimes think i am the only one who kinda has pacing issues with GOTG, and Winter Solder doesn't have any real sence of Danger which makes it as a political Thriller Kinda limp. I would probably Put Man of Steel above Iron Man 2 and Captain America 1


I don't see all super hero movies multiple times in the Theatre (but I do a pretty good job of seeing the main ones, esp DC and Marvel). It often comes down to people who want to see it again and how well I enjoyed the first time/feel like I might have missed something.

I saw Avengers three times in the theatre (which is probably the most of any movie this century). The third time was still pretty damn fun, and I didn't notice the first two dimming any, the third was a bit down. (My first showing was with a pumped up crowd though and was hella fun. I also walked through Walhalla, up through to cut off at Midgard to get to the theater to watch Loki battle Thor and the Avengers, and it's hard to beat that setup. Walhalla and Midgard are the actual streets I walked to the theater.) I say this to say the FIRST time I saw GoG I had a rip-roaring fun time. The second time I saw it, I still enjoyed it, but it was slower. When I watching it at home on Blu-Ray months later it pretty slow in parts. I often get divorced from time, so it's easy for a movie to suspend my sense of time, and I let it play out. If I think you're movie is slow in the theater, you've got really problems.

Man of Steel had pacing problems for me, probably more so than any movie i've seen in the theatre is a LONG time, but I think it's because it broke my sense of belief to many times, and thus I NOTICED time as I was no longer under the spell of the movie. I really need to watch it again. (I have real problems with MoS.)

I think I need to re-watch IM 1-3 and CA1 too, but from my memory, CA1 is probably the worst Marvel movie so far, and seeing CA2: Winter Soldier, I go "Oh so that's the movie they wanted to make, why didn't they just make this one first then?" CA1 really felt like filler to introduce Hydra and Captain America. Those pre-CA Steve Rodgers effects were pretty awesome, but it can't carry a movie. Honestly, I think Marvel knew it too, CA worked awesomely in Avengers. I noticed in CA2, he has Falcon and Black Widow with him, and CA3 is almost looking like an Avengers movie... They honestly don't think that CA/Chris Evans can carry a movie.

(OTH, Daredevil can sure carry 12+ hours of TV.)

I think the only part of Winter Solider with any menace is some of the Bucky/Black Widow fight. Sebastican Stan and Scarlett Johansson did an awesome job there. At least when I think about the movie, that's the part that comes to mind. (And isn't that an odd thing to think about a _Captain America_ movie?) I also had no real desire to see it again (ditto for CA1).

I think the craftmanship of MoS is better than CA1, I have a hard time remembering IM2 out of the three, but I really don't like MoS overall, and that colors how I think. Despite it having great actors, who all did their jobs well, awesome special effects (probably some of the best super-human fight scenes on film), etc. I just don't like the movie, but they probably knew there would be people like me, and made the movie anyway, I can't really fault them for that, make the movie you feel you need to make, I just get to call them how I see them.

But I don't hate on DC for making MoS (Nolan/Batman-iszing Superman) or not mimicking the Marvel template (I just don't like MoS). It takes guts to tell YOUR stories YOUR way, instead of just copying "what works!". I'm glad they have their own tone, and they've split into different Universes. They SHOULD do their own thing. OTH, I'm wondering what I'll think of BvsS and the Wonder Woman movie. I certainly hope it's because the director wanted something stupid (this makes no real sense to me though).

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16 Apr 2015 02:12 #41496 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
After Michelle MacLaren dropped out of the “Wonder Woman” movie as director, sources tell Variety that Patty Jenkins has been tapped to take over the job.

more here
variety.com/2015/film/news/wonder-woman-...-jenkins-1201473041/

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16 Apr 2015 02:43 #41497 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Well that was quick!

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16 Apr 2015 04:12 - 16 Apr 2015 04:14 #41498 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Patty Jenkins it is then. Not more than a day after McClaren walked away. They must have had this planned out for at least a couple of weeks for this to happen so quickly.

See? I told you this was only a minor speed bump WE ARE STILL GETTING A WW MOVIE!!

.Let's hope she can deliver the goods
Last edit: 16 Apr 2015 04:14 by jdrock24.
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16 Apr 2015 08:13 #41505 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Jenkins is most known for Monster-and looking at her imdb its pretty much the only thing shes directed since 2003. Huh.

Monster is a movie that i didn't particuarly like-it seemed designed specifically could be nominated and win a best actress award-everything else felt kind of secondary to it-and her performance was about 30% or more makeup. Really it was Christina Ricci as her enabling girlfriend that was the best part of her movie.

But well she can direct actors, and do in circumstance so thats something.
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16 Apr 2015 11:07 #41506 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
WOW!
She directs an Oscar winning movie then basically gets no work for over ten years?

A Hollywood outsider just might be what this movie needs.

Either that or she has no voice and will do whatever the suits tell her.

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16 Apr 2015 16:43 #41507 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

castor wrote: Jenkins is most known for Monster-and looking at her imdb its pretty much the only thing shes directed since 2003. Huh.

Monster is a movie that i didn't particuarly like-it seemed designed specifically could be nominated and win a best actress award-everything else felt kind of secondary to it-and her performance was about 30% or more makeup. Really it was Christina Ricci as her enabling girlfriend that was the best part of her movie.

But well she can direct actors, and do in circumstance so thats something.


I was confused when I looked at her IMDB profile. Sure I'd heard Monster won some acclaim (I've not seen it). And she did direct two TV pilots that got picked up and made into TV shows. I know that directing a pilot of a TV show is more in depth than just an ordinary show (creates the tone for the series, has a bigger budget, etc). Some shows pilot episodes are more like mini-movies than a TV Show Episode.

Still, her history seems a bit sparse and yet Marvel wanted her for Thor 2 (which seems to have not worked out similar to what just happened with WW). Makes me think there is something I don't understand, as I don't get how she'd be handed Thor, let alone Wonder Woman.

As you said, she can get a performance out of an actor. Not every director can.

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16 Apr 2015 18:40 #41508 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

Markiehoe wrote: WOW!
She directs an Oscar winning movie then basically gets no work for over ten years?

A Hollywood outsider just might be what this movie needs.

Either that or she has no voice and will do whatever the suits tell her.


I think your partially write on both counts.

Her IMDB with One movie and a couple of Episodes of TV suggests....well hollywood semiinsider. Theres plenty of people even in indie movies who take a lot of meetings try to get agents in place etc to make stuff...thats kind of the perphery of hollywood. From What i understand with Monster is that Charlieze Theron who was a big star at the time more or less wrote a check to make the movie and she did it with her.

However this maybe like Empire Strikes Back and Laurence Kazdan. Lucas knew the space fights the special effects- he could more or less handle those-but well shapping the performances of the actors on set , picking the shots she got an old Hollywood hand for. You can see Kazdans influence all over the movie-but thers not one thing in the movie thats i think which you can say Lucase would really do that differently. And its one of the great movies

or the same token from what i have heard that the Transformers films thats kind of what i have ehard is the relationship between Steven Spielburg and Micheal Bay.


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18 Apr 2015 11:13 #41548 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
According to this article WB/ DC says "NO" to an epic Wonder Woman movie.

variety.com/2015/film/news/wonder-woman-...laren-wb-1201473481/

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18 Apr 2015 15:31 #41551 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

Markiehoe wrote: According to this article WB/ DC says "NO" to an epic Wonder Woman movie.

variety.com/2015/film/news/wonder-woman-...laren-wb-1201473481/


Makes sense....why would anyone be stupid enough to make an action-based movie about a superhero...<eye roll>

ElF
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19 Apr 2015 03:36 #41554 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Well i think in fairness the words are "Braveheart style Epic".

I think the going word before was the movie involved a lot of politics and presumibly battles on Paradise Island....Which you know i am not sure is all that intresting. The Wonder Woman animated movie ended with what amounted to a giant battle sequence and iam going to say that can be kinda of mehhhh for me at this points. its hard to do battle scenes.

But well supperhero movies actually can be character studies. i would argue most of the marvel movies are kinda of character studies-Iron Man talks a lot more then he fights. When you look at it most of the Nolan Batman Movies don't have all that much action.

I think i have said this before and its worth repeating-A smaller budget Wonder Woman movie may not be the worst thing in te world. You could overspend very heavily on superhero movies, which can bloat them and only increase the kind of micromanagment tendencies of them. If you can do a wonder woman movie under 2 hours your going somewhere.

But my thoughts.

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19 Apr 2015 20:32 #41568 by AJF
Replied by AJF on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
The Variety article says that after writer Jason Fuchs turned in his version of the script, 5 other writers were hired to write scripts as well. Will the final script have multiple writers? If so, then the film may end up being of poor quality. Studio micromanagement.
I would be surprised if Suicide Squad is being micromanaged to death as well. And Batman vs Superman.

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19 Apr 2015 23:22 #41572 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

AJF wrote: The Variety article says that after writer Jason Fuchs turned in his version of the script, 5 other writers were hired to write scripts as well. Will the final script have multiple writers? If so, then the film may end up being of poor quality. Studio micromanagement.
I would be surprised if Suicide Squad is being micromanaged to death as well. And Batman vs Superman.


I don't think it's unusual for hollywood scripts to have many writers. And sometimes writers aren't credited (or from my understanding, are ALLOWED by the writer's guild to be credited). Just watched Diner for Five with Frank Darabont, John Favereau, Alan Cummings, Hank Azaria, and Harry Shearer. Darabont mentioned finishing up scripts for Saving Private Ryan and Mission Impossible (even living at Tom cruise's house for awhile). He's not listed in the credits for either movie. He mentioned that the Writers Guild is the only one that forbids it's members from getting credit. If you don't structurally change a script, you can't get credit (that is if the flow of the movie doesn't change, all you do is rewrite every scene so the dialog is much better and the plot seems to work well, well you haven "change the movie" so you get no credit.)

So, I don't know if we any info on if this is really a bad sign or not. Doesn't seem like a good sign to me, but this is also sausage making. I'm sure there is a lot of this that goes on in Hollywood that we don't hear/know about. I still bet more on finding a director who knows the material and can bring it to life.

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20 Apr 2015 04:55 #41574 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
The process for a blockbuster sounds more or less right.

The Writers Guild really is dedicated to...well almost the myth of the one writer on hollywood movies. in reality the studios sometimes bring as many as twenty writers on films(though often less), and its pretty common for producers directors and actors to take a pass at the script to as well as give notes etc. This has been going on studio films since the beggining. Offically as many as 6 can get credits-though often far less go for it, as the studios don't want to clutter the titles. This has gone away a touch in recent years- though for awhile the trend was improv on movies which meant there was less overall need to change a script people would rewrite on set.

Though frequently enouh it sometimes happen that scripts drafts aren't even read for legal reason. I have known people who make really good money doing this

though i would comment-similar stuff happens all the time on TV. Its rare for a tv script not to pass through at least 4 hands before it makes it ot the screen. This happens faster then Movies but it happens.

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20 Apr 2015 15:53 #41582 by five_red
Replied by five_red on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
In movies it has historically been the practice that specialist scriptwriters would be brought in to strengthen specific parts of a movie script. Each studio has a list of go-to writers to work on romance or comedy scene dialogue, for example.

R5

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20 Apr 2015 16:50 #41584 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
Has anyone else noticed that any DCCU news seems to bring out a rash of negative posters? Not just here but elsewhere?

What is the mentality of these people? Are they Marvel fanatics who are trying to destroy the competition? Are they comic fans concerned that "their" characters are going to be misrepresented on the big screen? I mean, what is it? What is the point of coming onto forums like this and making post after post about how much DC/WB is possibly screwing up?

It just baffles me...

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20 Apr 2015 18:45 #41586 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

jdrock24 wrote: Has anyone else noticed that any DCCU news seems to bring out a rash of negative posters? Not just here but elsewhere?

What is the mentality of these people? Are they Marvel fanatics who are trying to destroy the competition? Are they comic fans concerned that "their" characters are going to be misrepresented on the big screen? I mean, what is it? What is the point of coming onto forums like this and making post after post about how much DC/WB is possibly screwing up?

It just baffles me...


Speaking only for myself, it's not about trying to 'destroy' the competition, but about making my own opinion heard. I imagine that it's the same for most of the other 'negative posters'. I'm not a DC hater, far from it. I continually praise Arrow & Flash because they're quality products. I just don't say 'well, we're lucky to even be having X, so we should just overlook the flaws and be happy'. That's how you get a mediocre product out of what could be a superior product. Think of the Star Wars prequels: there was a good story there but it got lost in horrible execution. Same with 'Dark Knight Rises' and Man of Steel'; both of those films could have been so much better than they were. It's easier to made a mediocre story than a good one, so when people accept mediocrity, the studios are more than happy to give it to them.

The fact is, that if I'm negative about DC movies, it's because WB has earned that negativity with more mediocre or outright horrible films than good ones. Going back to the Richard Donner era, you have Superman, Superman 2, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, and the Dark Knight as (IMO) really good films. Compare that with the terrible list of Superman 3, Superman 4, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, The Loosers, Jonah Hex, The Dark Knight Rises, Green Lantern, and Man of Steel, just off the top of my head. If I'm disdainful of WB making a good movie, it's because of their track record; WB does put out the occasional good movie, but when they fail, they fail hard.

I also complain because I know that internet forums and such are read by the studios and publishers and it's a way to start a conversation that might possibly get enough people talking to where something gets changed. Example: when the Supergirl TV series was announced, the CBS flack in charge said there would absolutely be no crossover with Arrow/Flash. Of course, one of the big talking points on all the forums is about how awesome it would be to have Supergirl in the Arrow-verse. Now, you have the producer, Greg Berlanti, hinting at every con he appears at that yes, Kara will be in the same universe.

Will I go see the WW film even though I'm skeptical? Absolutely. Do I have hopes for it? No, because the odds for me are that when I get my hopes up for a DC film, those hopes get crushed.

Again, jut my opinion, YMMV, etc.
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20 Apr 2015 19:32 - 20 Apr 2015 19:33 #41588 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

ArgentDragon wrote:

jdrock24 wrote: Has anyone else noticed that any DCCU news seems to bring out a rash of negative posters? Not just here but elsewhere?

What is the mentality of these people? Are they Marvel fanatics who are trying to destroy the competition? Are they comic fans concerned that "their" characters are going to be misrepresented on the big screen? I mean, what is it? What is the point of coming onto forums like this and making post after post about how much DC/WB is possibly screwing up?

It just baffles me...


Speaking only for myself, it's not about trying to 'destroy' the competition, but about making my own opinion heard. I imagine that it's the same for most of the other 'negative posters'. I'm not a DC hater, far from it. I continually praise Arrow & Flash because they're quality products. I just don't say 'well, we're lucky to even be having X, so we should just overlook the flaws and be happy'. That's how you get a mediocre product out of what could be a superior product. Think of the Star Wars prequels: there was a good story there but it got lost in horrible execution. Same with 'Dark Knight Rises' and Man of Steel'; both of those films could have been so much better than they were. It's easier to made a mediocre story than a good one, so when people accept mediocrity, the studios are more than happy to give it to them.

The fact is, that if I'm negative about DC movies, it's because WB has earned that negativity with more mediocre or outright horrible films than good ones. Going back to the Richard Donner era, you have Superman, Superman 2, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, and the Dark Knight as (IMO) really good films. Compare that with the terrible list of Superman 3, Superman 4, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, The Loosers, Jonah Hex, The Dark Knight Rises, Green Lantern, and Man of Steel, just off the top of my head. If I'm disdainful of WB making a good movie, it's because of their track record; WB does put out the occasional good movie, but when they fail, they fail hard.

I also complain because I know that internet forums and such are read by the studios and publishers and it's a way to start a conversation that might possibly get enough people talking to where something gets changed. Example: when the Supergirl TV series was announced, the CBS flack in charge said there would absolutely be no crossover with Arrow/Flash. Of course, one of the big talking points on all the forums is about how awesome it would be to have Supergirl in the Arrow-verse. Now, you have the producer, Greg Berlanti, hinting at every con he appears at that yes, Kara will be in the same universe.

Will I go see the WW film even though I'm skeptical? Absolutely. Do I have hopes for it? No, because the odds for me are that when I get my hopes up for a DC film, those hopes get crushed.

Again, jut my opinion, YMMV, etc.


Thanks for the reply.

I do understand your points about WB's track record. Although we disagree about MOS, the rest of your list would be pretty accurate.However, I don't think your theory that "I'm going to bash everything happening with the DCCU because that will motivate WB to do better in the future" is very valid. I mean, do you really think that the stuff you post makes any kind of difference to WB executives? I seriously doubt it.

I really don't mind about valid criticisms. It is the stupid ones that get under my skin. For example, the "multiple writers/scripts" thing in this very thread. It is a common practice in Hollywood to have multiple writers take a pass on a script. However, when DC/WB does it, it is, all of sudden, "micromanaging". Here's another one: BM v SM is "too packed with heroes" or "You can't introduce a superhero team in the same movie! You have to do origin movies first!" Well, didn't Guardians of the Galaxy just do that? Where was the outrage there? If you are going to apply this standard to DC, why not to Marvel? It is these inconsistencies that bug me, not to mention the seemingly relentless nature of the whiners.

I believe, at the end of the day, most comic fans just want good CBM's from both companies. Sure, you are going to have the hard core fans from both companies who will bash the other at every turn just to try to ensure that their side "wins". However, these people need to be drowned out by the "normal" fans who believe that the competition between the two is what will continue to cause both studios to maintain the quality of their respective movies.

By the way, being an old man, I'm not up on the latest internet lingo. What does "YMMV" mean?
Last edit: 20 Apr 2015 19:33 by jdrock24.

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20 Apr 2015 20:20 #41589 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

jdrock24 wrote: Has anyone else noticed that any DCCU news seems to bring out a rash of negative posters? Not just here but elsewhere?

What is the mentality of these people? Are they Marvel fanatics who are trying to destroy the competition? Are they comic fans concerned that "their" characters are going to be misrepresented on the big screen? I mean, what is it? What is the point of coming onto forums like this and making post after post about how much DC/WB is possibly screwing up?

It just baffles me...


I don't understand it either......around most parts of the internet, Marvel can do no wrong with their films & comics. The only thing that fanboys like to do more than to suck Marvel's tits is to bash DC. Granted, WB and Didio have NOT helped DC do any favors over the years, but the knee-jerk reaction is almost laughable. Saying BvsS trailer was one of the worst trailers in history is just a tad bit hyperbolic. I thought it looked fine for a first glimpse.

The badass internet fanboys saying they wont be watching it are full of shit. They'll plop down their money (or their parent's money since they mostly live at home) to go see it and then they'll take to the message board and be tough guy movie critic and bash Superman for being gloomy or excessive collateral damage or Gal Gadot being too skinny. Why? Because it doesn't fit who Superman really is-- well, at least the one of the 20 versions that they personally identify with.

It used to be baffling but now its just stupid. Forums like comicbookmovie.com or even SHH are ridiculous to even read nowadays.

ElF
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20 Apr 2015 20:38 #41590 by ArgentDragon
Replied by ArgentDragon on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
'Your Millage May Vary' And I'm not exactly a young'un myself.

I understand your points as well. I don't believe that one single voice makes a difference, but if more join in, then things start to get noticed.

You mention the double standard regarding Marvel/DC and I suppose that there is one. However, I think it's a case of Marvel having earned trust through a record of consistent excellence. I'm reminded of the old Simpsons episode where Lisa lies for the first time and Marge believes her. Bart asks 'How come mom believes you right off the bat?' Lisa replies 'Years of scrupulous honesty'. Bart thinks for a bit and says 'Eh, it's not worth it.' Marvel 'gets away' with more because they've shown that they're up to the task and get more leeway whereas DC is far more uneven.

Another example: Superman Returns. For almost 10 years before that movie came out, Kevin Smith had been telling con crowds about the horrors of working on the planned Superman movie revival. He talked about the meetings with the WB executives that outlined exactly what they wanted to see in the movie. And everything that Smith was joking about turned out to be a plot-point in Superman Returns, aside from the giant spider. Deadbeat dad Superman, a new Luthor land-grab, all of it. There's past history to justify claims of WB micro-managing, unless the director has an insane amount of cache in Hollywood, like Christopher Nolan does. Batman Begins actually flew under the radar because the execs were more concerned about Superman Returns, they just handwaved whatever Nolan wanted to do because a) the budget was so small comparatively, and b) they felt superheroes with powers were now where it was at given the success of X-Men and Spider-Man; vigilantes were passe. When Nolan hit it big with Batman Begins, the execs took notice, but he had enough pull in Hollywood, and enough success, to tell them to sign checks and leave him alone. Same reason why the Arrow-Verse is so good: by the time the execs noticed that they had a hit on their hands, Berlanti had already proven his success and could keep them out of the creative process for the most part.

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20 Apr 2015 20:42 #41591 by AJF
Replied by AJF on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
It's been said that WB gave Berlanti little creative control over Green Lantern. Wasn't that film micromanaged to death?

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20 Apr 2015 22:21 #41595 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

ArgentDragon wrote: 'Your Millage May Vary' And I'm not exactly a young'un myself.

I understand your points as well. I don't believe that one single voice makes a difference, but if more join in, then things start to get noticed.

You mention the double standard regarding Marvel/DC and I suppose that there is one. However, I think it's a case of Marvel having earned trust through a record of consistent excellence. I'm reminded of the old Simpsons episode where Lisa lies for the first time and Marge believes her. Bart asks 'How come mom believes you right off the bat?' Lisa replies 'Years of scrupulous honesty'. Bart thinks for a bit and says 'Eh, it's not worth it.' Marvel 'gets away' with more because they've shown that they're up to the task and get more leeway whereas DC is far more uneven.

Another example: Superman Returns. For almost 10 years before that movie came out, Kevin Smith had been telling con crowds about the horrors of working on the planned Superman movie revival. He talked about the meetings with the WB executives that outlined exactly what they wanted to see in the movie. And everything that Smith was joking about turned out to be a plot-point in Superman Returns, aside from the giant spider. Deadbeat dad Superman, a new Luthor land-grab, all of it. There's past history to justify claims of WB micro-managing, unless the director has an insane amount of cache in Hollywood, like Christopher Nolan does. Batman Begins actually flew under the radar because the execs were more concerned about Superman Returns, they just handwaved whatever Nolan wanted to do because a) the budget was so small comparatively, and b) they felt superheroes with powers were now where it was at given the success of X-Men and Spider-Man; vigilantes were passe. When Nolan hit it big with Batman Begins, the execs took notice, but he had enough pull in Hollywood, and enough success, to tell them to sign checks and leave him alone. Same reason why the Arrow-Verse is so good: by the time the execs noticed that they had a hit on their hands, Berlanti had already proven his success and could keep them out of the creative process for the most part.


I believe there is truth to WB executives having too much "creative control" in Superman Returns and Green Lantern. However, Marvel, I would assume, has to have even more creative control in order to bind those movies together. When Wright left Ant Man, it was "creative differences" with the studio. Even the almighty Joss Whedon has complained about changes he had to make to both Avenger's movies due to creative control with Marvel. Point is, Marvel never seems to get slammed for this while DC/WB does. Why?

I think another reason is that the DC characters have a longer history than Marvel's and some people have developed their perfect version of the character in their head and when something deviates from that, even a little, they freak out. I'm sorry, the SM in MOS wasn't a fully formed superhero yet. He was basically a rookie who now had to fight off an alien invasion after just learning how to fly a few hours before. "No!" the long time fans scream. "That's not Superman! He should be perfect in every way right out of the gate! He doesn't make mistakes! He's Superman!" It's like they can't win...
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20 Apr 2015 23:56 #41599 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project
I can sum my own personal experience in one word: FUN

If the trailer does not sell me, I don't pay for it.

Every Marvel movie I have seen in the theater, and I have not seen them all, I left the theater with a smile on my face.
I do not see them all.
I passed on the two Thors and every X Men movie after #3
Those I caught at home on cable and I was glad I did not pay for them.

I can not say that about any DC movie going back to the Val Kilmer Batman movie.
The DOOM and GLOOM the permeates the DC movie universe just gets under my skin.
The latest Superman vs Batman trailer is two minutes of Doom and Gloom.
In comparison the Antman trailer had me rolling.

Guess which movie I'm paying for and which one I can wait for?

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21 Apr 2015 04:01 #41603 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

lfan wrote:

jdrock24 wrote: Has anyone else noticed that any DCCU news seems to bring out a rash of negative posters? Not just here but elsewhere?

What is the mentality of these people? Are they Marvel fanatics who are trying to destroy the competition? Are they comic fans concerned that "their" characters are going to be misrepresented on the big screen? I mean, what is it? What is the point of coming onto forums like this and making post after post about how much DC/WB is possibly screwing up?

It just baffles me...


I don't understand it either......around most parts of the internet, Marvel can do no wrong with their films & comics. The only thing that fanboys like to do more than to suck Marvel's tits is to bash DC. Granted, WB and Didio have NOT helped DC do any favors over the years, but the knee-jerk reaction is almost laughable. Saying BvsS trailer was one of the worst trailers in history is just a tad bit hyperbolic. I thought it looked fine for a first glimpse.

The badass internet fanboys saying they wont be watching it are full of shit. They'll plop down their money (or their parent's money since they mostly live at home) to go see it and then they'll take to the message board and be tough guy movie critic and bash Superman for being gloomy or excessive collateral damage or Gal Gadot being too skinny. Why? Because it doesn't fit who Superman really is-- well, at least the one of the 20 versions that they personally identify with.

It used to be baffling but now its just stupid. Forums like comicbookmovie.com or even SHH are ridiculous to even read nowadays.

ElF


Really? Aren't we better than the "Since they mostly live at home", etc? I expect better from discourse here. I know you were using tone to convey what it's like out there, and the discourse here is much much better.

I'm going to have to say there is a bit of mis-remembering going on with the Marvel side. if you go back pre-release of GoG, you will find more than a little of "WHY are they making a movie about a bunch of unknowns?" that hit on the level of some bashing (well until the first trailer). That is still ongoing up for Ant-Man (I heard a friend making fun of them for making a movie of Ant-man just the other day), and there was the giant flack over loosing Edgar Wright that's still talked about (and I remember talking about it here as well as how horrible the first trailer for it was). And before the release of Thor there were people questioning if Thor was going to the be the right movie and if it would fail (Iron Man and Thor are in no way on the same level as Batman/Wonder Woman/Superman/Spider-Man/X-Men, I think people who have ever read comics semi-regularly forget that). Then again for Guardians. And now again for Ant-Man. Each time it was is THIS the marvel movie that will fail? We've mostly forgotten about ti now because a) have you SEEN Chris Hemsworth in his Thor garb and when he speaks in that Thor-voice? and b) Did you see GoG? That brings a lot of good will. The movies consistently are fun, so people give Marvel a bit of a break, and Marvel also does a pretty good job of playing to the fans w/o alienating everyone else. For some reason they get a pass for messing with timelines, character history etc in movies, where DC gets dumped on. (However, I will dump on MoS often, it's such a well made movie that just misses the point.) as Marikehoe says I think a bit of this is we're more forgiving of Fun that Gloom and Doom (though there is place for both in literature). OTH, It's also what's mostly wrong with DC now, and I think why Harley Quinn sells so well (it's fun and not gloom, a fact that DC seems to have finally realized.).

Actually, Marvel didn't even want to sign Downey, and only signed him to one picture. That's why he made so much money off IM2,3, Avengers. The script was ad libbed and being written as it was being filmed. It's a fluke the entire thing worked (And Marvel acknowledged that by not having Favreau direct IM2, despite being in the movie! What director of a a movie that was a FAR bigger hit than was expected wasn't asked back?). It's pretty funny if Iron Man (the start of the current Marvel Revolution) is used as any kind of guidepost, as it was the opposite of something carefully planned. The rest of the arc, maybe, and it did let Marvel know that if they did "Something like that" they'd make a lot of money. A LOT of money. Marvel had the wisdom to (for once) listen.

It also doesn't hurt that they have a charismatic bunch of people in Downey/Hemsworth/Johanson/Evans/Pratt. Sure there have been some nice press from Bale (_after_ the last Batman movie), but it pales next to the PR that is Downey, and that's nothing compared to the Evans/Pratt PR wonder-kind of their Superbowl bet. Just saying that Marvel does a pretty good job of playing the game, as well as making the actual movie. Just watching the antics of the crew on the press tour for Avengers 2 is awesome (multiple posts all over reddit). I'm not sure WB really gets that end of things, and DC definitely doesn't. Simply look at their reactions to fans asking about Stephanie Brown/Casandra Cain/Donna Troy. The reaction is "please stop bothering us" mixed with a "how dare you still like characters that we're done with". Hell, DC is even bringing back Troy as a bad guy, and I'm wondering if they're going to redeem her, or have WW take her out/keep her irredeemable bad. They did it to Superboy (prime) after all. (Driven by a lawsuit even!) (Marvel comics aren't much better, their reactions to how fans took "One More Day" and other events like that were pretty badly done as well. Actually I think Dido and Quesada both are generally horrible, and need to be moved out of the limelight for someone who won't embarrass the company regularly. But it's not like Marvel doesn't piss off some fans regularly (Spider-woman cover, changing her costume, the new Thor, etc). Though personally I tried to talk to some of the fans against the new Thor (because I suspect that the comic would be pretty good and fun, and IMO, I was right.), but most of them were just mad for incoherent reasons to me other than "I really like Thor and I don't like you to mess with him!" (Points at long history of similar things. Meh. Only got through to a few of them so I stopped) So much so I commissioned art of other woman with Thor's hammer (She-Ra, Harley Quinn), mostly as I thought those things were fun (I've had a soft spot for that topic since What If #10.)

I buy a LOT of DC comics, and I plan to see all their movies, and I pretty much consume all their TV shows (and I hope Constantine is renewed, as I think it's their best show). If I'm skeptical of something (Gal Godot's casting), it's mitigated by the fact that the people who cast her are not idiots, so I know that my initial reaction is pretty much worthless and I treat it that way. What matters is what she puts up on the screen and that is 10x more important than the size of her arms (which has plenty of time to change if that is needed). I've still not seen any movie she's been in, so I can't judge her acting ability, but again, the people involved are all highly skilled, and have done a good job with casting in everything so far, so I seriously doubt that she's a _horrible_ choice, at worst she'll be a good choice. (Said the same thing about Affleck, which people also like to hate.)

But I also wonder why people forget that DC Animated KICKS ASS. Marvel's efforts have historically been (at best) meh, and currently you'd think them to be actually good if you'd not seen Batman the animated Series, Justice League Unlimited, Teen Titans (not Go!), and Young Justice, and even a lot of those amazing shorts. Not to mention the dozen or so movies they put out, the worst of which is significantly better than anything Marvel has done in animation. (Their semi-motion adaptations of comics are ok, but I don't put them in the same class). Even the most recent "big failure" of DC Animation, the Green Lantern, was consistently better than say Ultimate Spider-Man (which I stopped watching), and on par with Avengers and Agents of Smash (if not better). I mean Green Lantern had an actual STORY, consistent characters, and good voice acting. (The voice acting for Hulk,the actors are great, but it sounds like they're in isolated cans.) It could be watched by kids, but didn't feel like a children's program. ALL of Marvel's current animated efforts feel like they are made and written for kids. That's not a bad thing (can you say Powerpuff Girls? Adventure Time? Spongebob?), but if you can manage to do both, as the long list done by DC has indicated is possible....or both of the Avatar series, you're really treating your properties like they are in the comics. Avengers is probably the best of the current Marvel animated faire, and it got better than it started out (better plot, better writing). I'd have to watch some of Green Lantern again, but Marvel might have managed to finally be better than DC's worst. (I refuse to admit that Teen Titans Go! exists.)

(I actually wonder sometimes why they don't just give DC Comics over to the people on the animated side, as I think they get the DC characters better than the people running DC does.)

Fans like to discuss and sometimes bash. It's what they do. More than a few like to really talk shit. But I just drone that out. It's not interesting, and doesn't give me anything to think about. It's boring.

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21 Apr 2015 04:01 - 21 Apr 2015 04:07 #41604 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Wonder Woman Director leaves project

Markiehoe wrote: I can sum my own personal experience in one word: FUN

If the trailer does not sell me, I don't pay for it.

Every Marvel movie I have seen in the theater, and I have not seen them all, I left the theater with a smile on my face.
I do not see them all.
I passed on the two Thors and every X Men movie after #3
Those I caught at home on cable and I was glad I did not pay for them.

I can not say that about any DC movie going back to the Val Kilmer Batman movie.
The DOOM and GLOOM the permeates the DC movie universe just gets under my skin.
The latest Superman vs Batman trailer is two minutes of Doom and Gloom.
In comparison the Antman trailer had me rolling.

Guess which movie I'm paying for and which one I can wait for?


All I'm going to say is that you will be missing out. I just got back from the free IMAX screening and, I can tell you, BM v SM is going to rock on the big screen.

But hey, it's your choice as to what you want to see. Ant Man, ironically, will probably be the first Marvel movie I'll be skipping in theaters.
Last edit: 21 Apr 2015 04:07 by jdrock24.

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