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Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

12 Mar 2019 15:50 #63165 by shadar

brantley wrote: The Air Force loves the movie; it's even running a commercial urging young women toi find their Origin Stories. Can't find a link to that, but there's this about the hype:

www.dailydot.com/parsec/is-captain-marvel-military-propaganda/

--Brantley


The military has collaborated with film makers since at least WWII, with the goal of attracting the best and the brightest (along with a lot of ordinary folk) to join up. When you're a a militaristic country, no matter who is President, this is always a good investment on the part of the military. 

It was far more blatant in the past...

I don't know how many of you recall the Star Troopers movie (of the Heinlein book of the same name).

Some Heinlein quotes from the book and/or  movie that will demonstrate that even the most military-friendly movie of today is nothing like what we watched or read in the past. Some of Heinlein's quotes from his imagined future world made great sense and yet would be impossible to utter today. In Heinlein's world of Star Troopers, voluntary military service is the price of citizenship. 

“Under our system every voter and officeholder is a man who has demonstrated through voluntary and difficult service that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.” 

“Citizenship is an attitude, a state of mind, an emotional conviction that the whole is greater than the part...and that the part should be humbly proud to sacrifice itself that the whole may live.” 

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” 

(Of course, Heinlein was thinking of a world government of Earth that was facing alien enemies. Not Nationalism, but instead Worldism. Not Racism but Species-ism.)

(Here's another Heinlein quote from the book that would be inappropriate to discuss in a workplace today, but is delightfully honest and understandable to me, and old fashioned cis-male.) 

“Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them going past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful.” 

Sigh...

Shadar

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12 Mar 2019 16:47 #63166 by Woodclaw

shadar wrote:

brantley wrote: The Air Force loves the movie; it's even running a commercial urging young women toi find their Origin Stories. Can't find a link to that, but there's this about the hype:

www.dailydot.com/parsec/is-captain-marvel-military-propaganda/

--Brantley


The military has collaborated with film makers since at least WWII, with the goal of attracting the best and the brightest (along with a lot of ordinary folk) to join up. When you're a a militaristic country, no matter who is President, this is always a good investment on the part of the military. 

It was far more blatant in the past...


This always makes me laugh because it reminds me how the Marine Corps withdraw the official support from Clint Eastwood's Heartbreak Ridge  because the characters in the movie swore way too much for their liking. I think that's funny for two main reasons: first the entire point of the movie was to showcase how a bunch of different characters fit in a USMC recon unit and how some people actually love military life, despite being hell; second... well we are talking about a movie written, directed and starring Clint Eastwood, who is often considered the incarnation of the grizzled veteran.

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12 Mar 2019 17:17 #63167 by shadar

Woodclaw wrote:

shadar wrote:

brantley wrote: The Air Force loves the movie; it's even running a commercial urging young women toi find their Origin Stories. Can't find a link to that, but there's this about the hype:

www.dailydot.com/parsec/is-captain-marvel-military-propaganda/

--Brantley


The military has collaborated with film makers since at least WWII, with the goal of attracting the best and the brightest (along with a lot of ordinary folk) to join up. When you're a a militaristic country, no matter who is President, this is always a good investment on the part of the military. 

It was far more blatant in the past...


This always makes me laugh because it reminds me how the Marine Corps withdraw the official support from Clint Eastwood's Heartbreak Ridge  because the characters in the movie swore way too much for their liking. I think that's funny for two main reasons: first the entire point of the movie was to showcase how a bunch of different characters fit in a USMC recon unit and how some people actually love military life, despite being hell; second... well we are talking about a movie written, directed and starring Clint Eastwood, who is often considered the incarnation of the grizzled veteran.


Elevating and celebrating the military has always been a confused and cautious endeavor in the US. On one hand, many view military service as an honor and a duty, but many others see it as an illustration of a military empire gone insane. Yet people can support soldiers while simultaneously hating what they are asked to do. Confused messaging -- you bet, but that's the nature of American culture today. 

I'm a veteran of the Vietnam war, so I've got my own experiences, pro and con the military. 

Hollywood, of course, tries to tap into that at various stages, but never in a way that satisfies everyone. 

Yet if you go too far one way, then you've got the Third Reich. Go too far the other way, and you've got snowflakes who can't handle a little heat. The search for the center is a story of over and undershooting the original goal of citizen soldiers (as in, to serve and then return to civilian life) led by political leaders of wisdom and experience and selflessness. 

Only in the movies do we get a chance to actually see such things, and not all that often then. So if Captain Marvel celebrates this a bit, that's cool with me.  

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12 Mar 2019 19:00 #63169 by brantley
Nothing to do with the military, but a "clever" political reference: calling Earth a "shithole planet."

--Brantley

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13 Mar 2019 04:49 #63174 by shadar
For grins, here's a drawing of the original 1980's Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) punching out a Skrull. 

She changed just a bit before getting to the movies.... 1980's versus 2019 perception of a superheroine. 



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13 Mar 2019 09:55 #63177 by Markiehoe
Back to the movie!

It was OK.
I was entertained so the creative team did their job there.

Brie Larson/ Carol Danvers/ Vers/ "Captain Marvel" looked OK.
First her hair, very feminine.
Probably the most feminine trait about her.
The longer hair was used to good effect in the flying and space scenes.
I even appreciated the fact she altered her helmet to get the Mohawk effect.

The best scenes are her and Fury's banter.
And I do like it when Men and Women work together with no sexual tension.
Agent Carter and Jarvis as a team is a perfect example of that.

The character showed exactly zero sex appeal.
I am pretty sure by changing half a dozen pronouns you could have inserted a male actor in her scenes and not changed any other words and pretty much got the same movie in the end.
In Captain America: First Avenger young Steve faced many of young Carol's problems in exactly the same way.
He/ She tried as hard as they could and got back up when knocked down.

Would it have killed them to put Brie in the black leotard with the gold lightning bolt for a training montage if they really were going for a "90s" feel for the movie?

I never got a "feminist" agenda or a "Girl Power" feel out of this movie.

My highlight of the evening was Captain Marvel herself taking my ticket as I entered the theater.

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13 Mar 2019 17:13 #63187 by kikass2014
Opening Weekend Box Office numbers are in -

Worldwide Gross - $509,620,196

US (Domestic) Gross - $164,420,196

Being the last film before Endgame certainly helped.  But certainly a healthy start for a character most MCU fans didn't even know about. :)

Peace.

/K

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13 Mar 2019 18:46 #63190 by Markiehoe
Over the weekend the demographics was 61% male.
Which means that only 39% females showed up for this movie.

In comparison throughout Aquaman's run 52% were female.
Of course the movie starred a hulky, good looking bad boy.
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13 Mar 2019 22:43 #63200 by kikass2014
I would wager that out of those 61% males, 60% probably didn't care it was Capt. Marvel.  They went to see what is in store for Endgame :P 

Spot on in your analysis of Aquaman though :)

Peace.

/K

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14 Mar 2019 01:37 #63204 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

Markiehoe wrote: Over the weekend the demographics was 61% male.
Which means that only 39% females showed up for this movie.

In comparison throughout Aquaman's run 52% were female.
Of course the movie starred a hulky, good looking bad boy.


Where'd you get those #'s?

Box Office Mojo says 55% Male 45% Female.  (still not the 52% for Wonder Woman).  Though it's unclear if that % for WW and Aquaman are total percentages for the entire run or just opening weekend. I'd expect opening weekend to have more men, as traditionally more men see Comic Book movies so would probably lead the opening weekend charge.

I'd say that a 10% gender gap is much better for Captain Marvel than a 22% gap -- which is why I wanted to know the source of your #'s.

www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4493

I think the real test of Captain Marvel will come over the next weekend.  Wonder Woman hit it's numbers by running well for a loooooong time not with a huge peak out the gate.  I'd love to see a breakdown across time of the WW demographics.

Monday and Tuesday #'s of 10 and 14M are pretty good (not stellar but good). Similar to what Wonder Woman pulled in.

www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=marvel2018a.htm

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14 Mar 2019 02:00 #63207 by Markiehoe
I am pretty sure I read it on Deadline.

My Google Fu is off today so I trust your numbers which can easily be found.

My bad
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14 Mar 2019 02:26 #63209 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

Markiehoe wrote: I am pretty sure I read it on Deadline.

My Google Fu is off today so I trust your numbers which can easily be found.

My bad


It's all good.

Mosty I was trying to vet the box Office Mojo Numbers since I use them a lot.

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14 Mar 2019 10:29 #63213 by Dru1076
I really enjoyed the movie. 

Brie is clearly a cut above her opponents in fight scenes throughout the movie. She is already kicking ass a lot before she gets the shackles off and goes full-on OP Captain Marvel for the final act, which brilliantly shows off why she is now the most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe. A must see film for SWManiacs.
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17 Mar 2019 04:53 #63252 by ace191
My wife and I finally saw it today.  Very entertaining film.  I would give it 3.5/5 stars.  Brie was very good.  A must see for our crowd here.  She is going to be a very powerful and fun character in the Marvel Universe.  
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17 Mar 2019 15:44 #63254 by Sarge395

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17 Mar 2019 18:31 #63257 by The Highlander
Replied by The Highlander on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk
I agree with Dru, while it wasn't as outstanding as say Black Panther I found Captain Marvel to be an entertaining and very enjoyable film with the greatest display of female power in a movie I can remember. In fact I'm surprised more people haven't commented that all of the fights once Carol reaches full power could have come straight from a story on this site, she was that destructive.
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24 Mar 2019 10:18 - 24 Mar 2019 10:19 #63379 by AuGoose

brantley wrote: I found it very disappointing, plagued by the same kind of sloppy writing that plagues most comic book and space opera movies these days.  And the howlers -- Wendy Lawson was trying to invent a light speed engine in a universe with FTL interstellar travel?

There's possibly some issues similar to my Xenoglass setting. I've set that up so there are two styles of FTL. One is confined to very specific, very known, and very easily fortified or interdicted routes. The second method just ignores the limited pathways of the "star-web" and sends you wherever you want. In this "prologue MCU" we see them forced to pop through the hexagon-gates. Those also appeared in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, with the suggestion that routes were fixed and limited. Lawson's "lightspeed drive" might ignore those pathing issues. While not clearly framed for the audience, it's still at least a recoverable error. I think the bigger issue is "uh, how much utility are you gonna get out of a device which relies on an exactly-one-in-the-entire-universe power supply?" And given what Thanos does with that little blue nugget, the drive probably doesn't actually do much of anything related to movement and is really there to let mortals pass instructions to the Space-Stone...

Skrullls can match human DNA, but are made of something "off the periodic table?"

Eh, I assume Pym Particles aren't on the Periodic Table. No reason to think Marvel's near-ubiquitous "unstable molecules" are either. I'm prepared to let that one go as being unexpectedly faithful to the source material.

The best scenes were those involving the Rambeau family rather than the frantic action.  Great SFX, but SFX are so easy to do these days that filmmakers get lazy about everything else.


There are other scenes I may have enjoyed more, but I agree the Rambeau family was solid, while the SFX extravaganza shots were actually some of the weakest in terms of emotional impact. I'm in the Good-but-not-Great camp. My biggest issue is the movie felt short to me while the objective running time is pretty beefy. The narrative was not eager to get shit done, and the reversal of sympathetic/despicable alignments of the factions late in the second act left very little time for villain development which I think directly robs the final act of gravitas.
Last edit: 24 Mar 2019 10:19 by AuGoose.
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24 Mar 2019 21:45 - 26 Mar 2019 22:01 #63387 by RevTekkX
IMO

Brie Larson, an adequate actor (؟), was lacking in MCU Hero charisma. I found her character the least interesting in a number of scenes. For that honor I am not sure where the culpability should fall.

All in all a sufficient place holder in the MCU until Endgame.  
Last edit: 26 Mar 2019 22:01 by RevTekkX.

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24 Mar 2019 21:55 #63388 by Markiehoe
Just how i feel about Mark Ruffilo.
A good place holder until the Hulk shows up.
:D
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25 Mar 2019 23:59 #63401 by Starforge

RevTekkX wrote: IMO

Brie Larson, an adequate actor - to be very dismissive -, was lacking in MCU Hero charisma. I found her character the least interesting in a number of scenes. For that honor I am not sure where the culpability should fall.

All in all a sufficient place holder in the MCU until Endgame.  


Her work in the past would argue that she IS a good actress.  To me, what she lacks is the presence, fire and on-screen personality of someone like Zoe Saldana.  Also, just IMO.

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27 Mar 2019 12:36 #63429 by kikass2014
Captain Marvel has passed the "mighty" Wonder Woman in box office gross.

As of today (27th March 2019), Captain Marvel has grossed  $914,562,595 worldwide.  That's in just under 3 weeks.

By comparison WW took  $821,847,012 worldwide in its entire run.

Future is looking bright for Carol Danvers it seems.

Peace.

/K
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28 Mar 2019 01:35 - 28 Mar 2019 01:49 #63432 by Starforge
Not really the same thing K.

One - an essentially stand alone origin story that didn't really do much to further the DCEU - an already floundering product.

the other - an origin story that continues the already good story lines of the MCU - a very popular product.

Or are you arguing that the movie was really that good?  Unless the movie was horrible, it was going to make money even if only filler for endgame.  I know not one person who saw the movie that thought it was great.  What it was is it wasn't bad and had some good moments to it almost in spite of the lead actress.

Glad they made money since I enjoy the heck out of most of the MCU's offerings and I'm sure I'll continue to do so.  Carol Danvers - or not.

In fact - set the money aside - which movie did you enjoy more?  WW or this one.  WW was flawed as well but still better than this movie.  As far as the leads - Gal Gadot is a class act.  Nuff said.

Edit to add:  Most of the bump versus WW was overseas (200mil) and likely to still grow a tad.  It's still lagging by about 3/4 domestic versus WW.  Maybe it'll catch it, maybe not.  Sad for an MCU product.  Then again, there aren't a lot of "white dudes" in China or many of the other places.  Likely not much reporting on the story either.
Last edit: 28 Mar 2019 01:49 by Starforge.

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28 Mar 2019 10:41 - 28 Mar 2019 10:43 #63443 by kikass2014
Oh I def agree the fact that this is linked to the MCU (and Endgame) was a huge factor in its overall gross.  But that is a HUGE gross for a character who I would wager a small fraction of the MCU audience even heard of before going in.  Compared to WW who is probably the most famous female superheroine of all time.

Most of the bump versus WW was overseas (200mil) and likely to still grow a tad.  It's still lagging by about 3/4 domestic versus WW...


I just want to make a small point on this.  Captain Marvel won't catch it.  But thats because America is SJW heaven in general, and WW was marketed to hell on that ideology alone. This is why the domestic on WW is so high, percentage wise, compared to its overseas.  You were called a sexist, misogynist or whatever if you didn't see and praise WW when it came out.

If WW was so good, why did it not perform as well overseas?  And where were these WW "fans" for Justice League? (Which bombed atrociously despite having the three biggest superheroes of all time in it)

In terms of the quality of the films, personally I enjoyed Captain Marvel a lot more then WW.

As I mentioned in my review of Wonder Woman, that film is LITERALLY Captain America: The First Avenger.  They took that script, scribbled out "Captain America" and wrote "Wonder Woman" instead.

Additionally, Chris Pine did a LOT of the heavy lifting in that film.

Captain Marvel wasn't great or outstanding to be fair, but at least it told its own story.  And it had a fun and colorful vibe to it, which also helped.

I genuinely don't get this critique of Brie Larson in the role.  Was it an outstanding performance?  No.  But the role wasn't anything outstanding,  Her performance was exactly what was called for by the script and directors.  How can I say this?  Because Brie Larson is a talented actress - and recognized as one.

Gal Gadot is a pretty face and thats it.

I feel a lot of the "hate", shall we say, regarding Larson, comes from her politics.  And while I certainly don't agree with them, my view of her in the role is not diminished.  Funny how no one mentions Chris Evans, whos politics are the same, and is just as vocal as Larson, and his performance as Capt. America.

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 28 Mar 2019 10:43 by kikass2014.
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28 Mar 2019 12:50 - 29 Mar 2019 12:12 #63445 by jdrock24

kikass2014 wrote: Oh I def agree the fact that this is linked to the MCU (and Endgame) was a huge factor in its overall gross.  But that is a HUGE gross for a character who I would wager a small fraction of the MCU audience even heard of before going in.  Compared to WW who is probably the most famous female superheroine of all time.

Most of the bump versus WW was overseas (200mil) and likely to still grow a tad.  It's still lagging by about 3/4 domestic versus WW...


I just want to make a small point on this.  Captain Marvel won't catch it.  But thats because America is SJW heaven in general, and WW was marketed to hell on that ideology alone. This is why the domestic on WW is so high, percentage wise, compared to its overseas.  You were called a sexist, misogynist or whatever if you didn't see and praise WW when it came out.

If WW was so good, why did it not perform as well overseas?  And where were these WW "fans" for Justice League? (Which bombed atrociously despite having the three biggest superheroes of all time in it)

In terms of the quality of the films, personally I enjoyed Captain Marvel a lot more then WW.

As I mentioned in my review of Wonder Woman, that film is LITERALLY Captain America: The First Avenger.  They took that script, scribbled out "Captain America" and wrote "Wonder Woman" instead.

Additionally, Chris Pine did a LOT of the heavy lifting in that film.

Captain Marvel wasn't great or outstanding to be fair, but at least it told its own story.  And it had a fun and colorful vibe to it, which also helped.

I genuinely don't get this critique of Brie Larson in the role.  Was it an outstanding performance?  No.  But the role wasn't anything outstanding,  Her performance was exactly what was called for by the script and directors.  How can I say this?  Because Brie Larson is a talented actress - and recognized as one.

Gal Gadot is a pretty face and thats it.

I feel a lot of the "hate", shall we say, regarding Larson, comes from her politics.  And while I certainly don't agree with them, my view of her in the role is not diminished.  Funny how no one mentions Chris Evans, whos politics are the same, and is just as vocal as Larson, and his performance as Capt. America.

Peace.

/K


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28 Mar 2019 14:19 #63446 by kikass2014
Haha long time no see JD :P 

Peace.

/K

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