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Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
08 Aug 2018 01:58 - 08 Aug 2018 02:01 #60572
by shadar
On LOTR, there certainly seems to be a story-writting dilemma. Some people have suggested they take various stories or even events alluded to by Tolkien and greatly expand on those. The story of Beren and Luthien as an obvious example.
But you can't have a good multi-season show without some kind of underlying narrative. Some exciting or dire plot line that takes you from start to finish, no matter how many seasons are released..
An example would be to start with the story of Sauron and his creation of the rings and his granting them to Elves, Dwarves and Men, and then follow the free people of Middle Earth who came to oppose him in the Second Age as they begin to discover the evil he is creating.
Or another example would be to start off after the books end, and tell the story of Middle Earth from the perspective of the offspring of the LOTR characters. Maybe Sauron's evil prevailed in some way and has taken new form. Or a new villain arises.
Either one could be done in a way that is creatively similar to Tolkien, and consistent with his various writings and respectful of the core concepts of his work.
It would be fun to be a fly on the wall where the creative staff are trying to sort this out.
Shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
kikass2014 wrote: Oh totally agree
Geeks rejoice Bezos is a fan of this kind of stuff, and is also the richest man on the planet lol
Really looking forward to The Expanse Season 4. I read the producer saying that they are pretty much upgrading all their shooting gear to better tech. I think they may even be shooting in 4k (especially since it will be on their streaming service).
As for LOTR, I'm still not sure. Will look amazing for sure ($1 billion buys a lot of talent). But as far as the story goes, last I heard it wouldn't be LOTR or The Hobbit per se, but set before or in-between? If its before, it could be The Silmarillion (though that book, imo, is un-filmable, even more so then Dune, if you wish to stick strictly to the text). If its after, meh, would they really risk trying to create NEW stuff up, especially if they can't match Tolkien in tone and style?
But for sure, good time indeed to be a geek
Peace.
/K
On LOTR, there certainly seems to be a story-writting dilemma. Some people have suggested they take various stories or even events alluded to by Tolkien and greatly expand on those. The story of Beren and Luthien as an obvious example.
But you can't have a good multi-season show without some kind of underlying narrative. Some exciting or dire plot line that takes you from start to finish, no matter how many seasons are released..
An example would be to start with the story of Sauron and his creation of the rings and his granting them to Elves, Dwarves and Men, and then follow the free people of Middle Earth who came to oppose him in the Second Age as they begin to discover the evil he is creating.
Or another example would be to start off after the books end, and tell the story of Middle Earth from the perspective of the offspring of the LOTR characters. Maybe Sauron's evil prevailed in some way and has taken new form. Or a new villain arises.
Either one could be done in a way that is creatively similar to Tolkien, and consistent with his various writings and respectful of the core concepts of his work.
It would be fun to be a fly on the wall where the creative staff are trying to sort this out.
Shadar
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08 Aug 2018 10:38 #60584
by Starforge
I would agree you couldn't do the Silmarillion or most of the works cobbled together by his son. That being said, there WERE good story lines that one could make a decent movie or series over. The fall of Gondolin. Beren and Luthien. The fall of the Noldor, the end of the second age with the downfall of Numenor, the witch king of Angmar and fall of the northern kingdom. And those are just off the top of my head as it's literally been 25 years since I've read it or Unfinished Tales.
In some ways, the stories can be better than what the movies did because they are not only less well known, but less fleshed out and in some cases literally unfinished.
The one disheartening rumor I found was that it's going to be focused on a young Aragorn. It could still be good, but if they go that route they are abandoning a lot of very good story lines for entirely fresh material that just happens to be set in ME.
Replied by Starforge on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
kikass2014 wrote: Oh totally agree
Really looking forward to The Expanse Season 4. I read the producer saying that they are pretty much upgrading all their shooting gear to better tech. I think they may even be shooting in 4k (especially since it will be on their streaming service).
As for LOTR, I'm still not sure. Will look amazing for sure ($1 billion buys a lot of talent
But for sure, good time indeed to be a geek
Peace.
/K
I would agree you couldn't do the Silmarillion or most of the works cobbled together by his son. That being said, there WERE good story lines that one could make a decent movie or series over. The fall of Gondolin. Beren and Luthien. The fall of the Noldor, the end of the second age with the downfall of Numenor, the witch king of Angmar and fall of the northern kingdom. And those are just off the top of my head as it's literally been 25 years since I've read it or Unfinished Tales.
In some ways, the stories can be better than what the movies did because they are not only less well known, but less fleshed out and in some cases literally unfinished.
The one disheartening rumor I found was that it's going to be focused on a young Aragorn. It could still be good, but if they go that route they are abandoning a lot of very good story lines for entirely fresh material that just happens to be set in ME.
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08 Aug 2018 11:10 #60587
by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Totally agree that there are stories within Silmarillion that would make great stories (as some have mentioned).
I would much prefer taking those and making them as self-contained arcs within a season. Maybe like 5 episode arcs or so. The overarching thread is there too - Morgoth, and then Sauron. So that shouldn't be a problem.
Additionally, the writers could pull stuff from the LOTR appendices, much like The Hobbit films did. All the stuff with the White Council was taken from there. I would LOVE to see Galadriel go back to Dol Goldur and destroy it single-handedly -
"Galadriel came forth and "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits","
One of my all-time favourite "superwoman" - "Tolkien describes Galadriel as "the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth" (after the death of Gil-galad) and the "greatest of elven women""
With regards to Ruby Rose and:
All I can say is Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And there isn't much from what I behold. But thats just me.
Peace.
/K
I would much prefer taking those and making them as self-contained arcs within a season. Maybe like 5 episode arcs or so. The overarching thread is there too - Morgoth, and then Sauron. So that shouldn't be a problem.
Additionally, the writers could pull stuff from the LOTR appendices, much like The Hobbit films did. All the stuff with the White Council was taken from there. I would LOVE to see Galadriel go back to Dol Goldur and destroy it single-handedly -
"Galadriel came forth and "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits","
One of my all-time favourite "superwoman" - "Tolkien describes Galadriel as "the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth" (after the death of Gil-galad) and the "greatest of elven women""
With regards to Ruby Rose and:
That said, if you think Ruby Rose is "hideous", you might wanna up your medications. The girl is drop dead gorgeous in terms of her looks.
All I can say is Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And there isn't much from what I behold. But thats just me.
Peace.
/K
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13 Aug 2018 19:28 - 13 Aug 2018 19:30 #60642
by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
Understood.....just saying
1: Let's give her a chance
2. I don't think its fair to say she solely got it by being a lesbian. It probably helped though.
Random comments/rebuttals:
1) Melissa was hardly known, IMO......one season of Glee does not make one a household name, especially given when the show was in its decline. She had maybe 10 minutes of screen time in Whiplash, though I thought she was pretty good.. Side note: I'm willing to fight anyone who does not think the ending of Whiplash is one of the best endings of all time.
2) You mentioned Madeline Petsch, as she is in Berlanti's stable (which he loves to recycle). Isn't she tied up with Riverdale? I dont watch the show so I dunno if they killed off Cherry
3) Still think your best suggestion was Rose Leslie. Aside from the red hair (which helps), she displayed a fierceness and physicality in GoT that would translate well to the show, IMO
4) There is backlash -- and there always will be -- because lots of people really need to get their own lives
ElF
1: Let's give her a chance
2. I don't think its fair to say she solely got it by being a lesbian. It probably helped though.
Random comments/rebuttals:
1) Melissa was hardly known, IMO......one season of Glee does not make one a household name, especially given when the show was in its decline. She had maybe 10 minutes of screen time in Whiplash, though I thought she was pretty good.. Side note: I'm willing to fight anyone who does not think the ending of Whiplash is one of the best endings of all time.
2) You mentioned Madeline Petsch, as she is in Berlanti's stable (which he loves to recycle). Isn't she tied up with Riverdale? I dont watch the show so I dunno if they killed off Cherry
3) Still think your best suggestion was Rose Leslie. Aside from the red hair (which helps), she displayed a fierceness and physicality in GoT that would translate well to the show, IMO
4) There is backlash -- and there always will be -- because lots of people really need to get their own lives
ElF
kikass2014 wrote:
True, I totally agree. Just like I said they would cast a transgender actor for the role in Supergirl. I wasn’t surprised, I expected it, and called it.Berlanti and Co are known for their "social activism" casting so it's not a surprise, but people are jumping all over this girl.
Well I’ve seen her in The Meg, and in OITNB. I’ve seen her in John Wick 2, xXx and Resident Evil. So I can make that statement. And like others have said, she is not a very good actress. But she has her following, and putting bums on seats is the business, so there is math at work here.I'm not that familiar with her acting (haven't gotten to her in Orange Is the New Black yet -- no spoilers) and haven't seen The Meg, but based on those castings, she cannot be the worst actress in the world. The literally could have gotten ANYONE to play her role in The Meg, yet she got it. While it would be naive to think that being a lesbian didn't help her get the role, I think "she was cast simply because she is a lesbian and on no other merit" is a little harsh.
I agree, that is a fair point. So let me throw another one, one I suggested earlier – why not go with Madeline Petsch? She’s not a household name, has worked with Berlanti before, is young, and has shown she can act.Getting the best actress for the role?!?! I think you meant to say, "get the best actress for the role who's schedule will allow it and who fits into the budget and who is in the appropriate age range". Those three factors alone probably rule out some of the ones on that list, not to mention a ton of other actresses. Excellent choices, though, I'll give you that.
You seem to be missing the point. The point is to cast someone REGARDLESS of their sexuality. You cast someone on other factors, MAINLY their ability to ACT.Why do you merely dismiss Ruby Rose as "stunt casting" because she is a lesbian? Wouldn't you think a lesbian could portray a lesbian as adequately or better than a non-lesbian? Would it be "stunt casting" if they chose a more established actress who was still lesbian/bi (like Evan Rachel Wood)?
True, but….Im sure everyone had their own list of "Supergirls" when the show was announced and I would bet $1000 that 99.9% of people's lists did NOT include Benoist.
...Benoist going into Supergirl was known. She had appeared in Glee (along with Grant Gustin incidentally), and she was also in Whiplash.Though she is now entrenched in the role (and a fine actress most of the time) and is synonymous with "Supergirl" now.
I agree. This isn’t Shakespeare. But that isn’t the point per se. If you believe that Ruby Rose got this role on merit, fair play to you. Who knows, maybe she will be excellent.This is CW, not Shakespeare in the Round, so the lack of experience thing is hardly shocking. Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Steven Amell, Creed Williams....hardly household names before they were all selected to headline their own respective shows....
I’m just trying to explain why there is a (arguably justified) backlash.
Peace
./K
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13 Aug 2018 19:43 #60643
by shadar
I couldn't agree more, Lfan. Well said.
What I think is really funny is that some lesbians are complaining that she's "not really a lesbian". Ruby describes herself as "gender fluid" which used to be called "bi-sexual" before we discovered that gender doesn't come in only two sizes.
Shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
lfan wrote: Understood.....just saying
1: Let's give her a chance
2. I don't think its fair to say she solely got it by being a lesbian. It probably helped though.
Random comments/rebuttals:
1) Melissa was hardly known, IMO......one season of Glee does not make one a household name, especially given when the show was in its decline. She had maybe 10 minutes of screen time in Whiplash, though I thought she was pretty good.. Side note: I'm willing to fight anyone who does not think the ending of Whiplash is one of the best endings of all time.
2) You mentioned Madeline Petsch, as she is in Berlanti's stable (which he loves to recycle). Isn't she tied up with Riverdale? I dont watch the show so I dunno if they killed off Cherry
3) Still think your best suggestion was Rose Leslie. Aside from the red hair (which helps), she displayed a fierceness and physicality in GoT that would translate well to the show, IMO
4) There is backlash -- and there always will be -- because lots of people really need to get their own lives
ElF
I couldn't agree more, Lfan. Well said.
What I think is really funny is that some lesbians are complaining that she's "not really a lesbian". Ruby describes herself as "gender fluid" which used to be called "bi-sexual" before we discovered that gender doesn't come in only two sizes.
Shadar
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13 Aug 2018 20:13 #60645
by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Batwoman: Lesbian comic hero to get TV series
@ Lfan
1) Didn't say she was a household name, but known. And I agree with you on the Whiplash ending
2) As far as I know, Madeline Petsch is currently filming season 3 of Riverdale. But having said that, it is not uncommon for actors to be working on more then one project at a time. The Rock has like 5 films a year or something lol
3) Those were some I thought of off the top of my head so to speak. I personally, would probably go with Rose as well out of the list
4) Agree, ppl will always hate something.
The bottom line, to me, is that she is going to play Batwoman. Would I have liked someone else to play her? Sure. Do I care enough that it is her to bitch and moan at the woman? No. Will she be any good? Who knows. Will I watch it? I'll wait and she what she does in the crossover, then decide.
Kikass is now on lock-down with regards to this topic (baring unforeseen circumstances)
Peace.
/K
1) Didn't say she was a household name, but known. And I agree with you on the Whiplash ending
2) As far as I know, Madeline Petsch is currently filming season 3 of Riverdale. But having said that, it is not uncommon for actors to be working on more then one project at a time. The Rock has like 5 films a year or something lol
3) Those were some I thought of off the top of my head so to speak. I personally, would probably go with Rose as well out of the list
4) Agree, ppl will always hate something.
The bottom line, to me, is that she is going to play Batwoman. Would I have liked someone else to play her? Sure. Do I care enough that it is her to bitch and moan at the woman? No. Will she be any good? Who knows. Will I watch it? I'll wait and she what she does in the crossover, then decide.
Kikass is now on lock-down with regards to this topic (baring unforeseen circumstances
)Peace.
/K
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