Literary Quality

Over the last few weeks I've read posts from several people who state that they don't expect any high quality literature here and are mainly in it for the quick fix. And now one of these posts was even paired with a "better no feedback than negative feedback"-comment. This is where I have to ask everyone: Is that true? Do we really just care for a straightforward, mostly action-oriented story about women with super powers using them in as many ways as possible in as short a time as possible?

So do things like consistent and believable characterization or the overall plot even have a sense that goes beyong ... how was it called? ... windowdressing? I mean, sure it would be a bit much to expect literal masterpieces here, but does it really hurt to expect a certain amount of quality in certain areas? As for me, I try to write my stories with as much quality as I can, so I'm always eager to get some detailed feedback so I can improve on that. We all know how good this goes, so I'm really grateful for my beta readers here. I don't want to open the "lack of feedback" discussion again, but the lack of feedback didn't really help in shrugging off said comments, meaning that they are getting more and more demotivating each time I hear them.

So this is my simple question: How much literally quality do you prefer?

njae wrote: Over the last few weeks I've read posts from several people who state that they don't expect any high quality literature here and are mainly in it for the quick fix. And now one of these posts was even paired with a "better no feedback than negative feedback"-comment. This is where I have to ask everyone: Is that true? Do we really just care for a straightforward, mostly action-oriented story about women with super powers using them in as many ways as possible in as short a time as possible?

So do things like consistent and believable characterization or the overall plot even have a sense that goes beyong ... how was it called? ... windowdressing? I mean, sure it would be a bit much to expect literal masterpieces here, but does it really hurt to expect a certain amount of quality in certain areas? As for me, I try to write my stories with as much quality as I can, so I'm always eager to get some detailed feedback so I can improve on that. We all know how good this goes, so I'm really grateful for my beta readers here. I don't want to open the "lack of feedback" discussion again, but the lack of feedback didn't really help in shrugging off said comments, meaning that they are getting more and more demotivating each time I hear them.

So this is my simple question: How much literally quality do you prefer?

I don't want anyone to think that I was conveying that "no feedback is better than negative feedback", if that was what you were referring to. And maybe you weren't at all?

I am with you and find that quality of story much more compelling and exciting to read. You do some awesome work yourself! I just don't get too over critical when I recognize a writer who is just selling over-powered fan service versus a writer who is truly trying to tell a story. However, I really enjoy over-powered fan service every now and again. I don't always want to have to put thought into a kink, know what I mean?

So, with that in mind, I don't expect anything more than what the writer is offering and take that into consideration when I read what they offer.

I feel like I should explain myself in more detail about feedback...

I think feedback should be offered. However, negative feedback doesn't have to be rude feedback. After an exercise in the military we have what is called an After Action Review. We address both what we did well, and what we failed at. However, when we talk about what we failed at, we try to come up with solutions to improve those failures so that they are not necessarily fixed, but improved.

Of course, I don't expect that kind of process here; but, it's more helpful, IMO, to offer suggestions for improvement or question the content structure, or the content itself.

To just basically state that you don't like it is like an Olympic level coach telling an Olympic level athlete, "You're doing it wrong." and then simply walk away. I feel that the coach should at least offer pointers or demonstrate. Don't you think? (Hence my "do it better" argument.) Just my opinion...

Anyway, to get back to what Njae was asking. No, I don't believe no feedback is better than "bad" feedback. It's the tone and attitude of the feedback I have issue with.

I don't expect- rather than prefer- anything more than what is offered, and give input where and when it is needed in the context that it is needed, and positive or negative, I try my best to be encouraging.

*Been drinking a bit, so I hope this post comes across coherently...

I guess the quality requirements vary as much as the categories do. For a quick fix of "bratty college girl gains powers and takes over the town", I don't need well-detailed characters. As long as the plot makes sense and the language doesn't make you stumble and think "what does that mean?" every five lines, it's a good story.

But let's assume a scenario like this: A superpowered alien woman, disguised as a human, has a normal married life with a man who doesn't know about her powers. Some...thing happens, the mafia captures the husband because they mistake him for someone who owes them money. The woman has no choice, uses her powers to rescue him, but she (for example) doesn't have super speed. She's invulnerable and inhumanly strong, so the thugs are no threat to her. But since she can't bring her husband out within the blink of an eye, she has to make sure he doesn't get harmed on the long way out. The suspense comes from the fact that she can't shield her husband from every bullet. Also, I'd find the setting a bit romantic, because the love for her husband makes her give up her secret identity, and she's very protective of him during the rescue and everything. Hard to explain. And I trailed off
So, in such a setting, I'd need psychical pressure on the woman, I'd need to see that she's really worried about how she's going to get her husband back alive, I'd need to be convinced that she really cares about him, and I'd need to be convinced that he's a good guy who is really a fitting partner for her. Even better would be being able to identify myself with him
So for all this stuff to work, the author would have to be really good. He'd have to work out many details and arrange them in the right way, and have a realistic view about the behavior, thoughts and feelings of his/her characters. This doesn't work with flawed language use, random plot order and short descriptions.

While I'd say that the statement still stands: I don't come here for world-class literature, I come here to be entertained. *But* for some of this entertainment to actually happen, the quality does really have to be on a high level.

And yeah Dru, such a noob. The elders of the internet do not approve

One more thing after jnw550 posted: I agree that actually constructive critic should contain suggestions on how to do things differently, but sometimes you don't know how to do better. In that case, and if you are at least able to articulate what you find problematic in a detailed manner, I think you should still do. Maybe someone else notices the same thing and even has an idea about it, but wouldn't write a post about that on his own. I think starting a healthy discussion (thus keeping it objective, no harsh tones and no hurt feelings making people defensive) is important in it's on right, even if you don't have any suggestions to make.

I think the quality of stories to be expected is entirely dependent on how long you have been around. That’s why I’ll always encourage new writers to post something here, so that new writers can develop and improve…Without worrying about harsh criticism.

However if I wrote something that was sub par and beneath my standards (Not that I think those standards are incredibly high) I’d fully expect a kick in the ass. But JNW is right...an author might deserve somewhat of a food for thought as to why you feel that way, other than – You suck – eat shit and die

A great thing about SWM is that are so many willing to edit your work. So, If your new, and unsure…Utilize that.

All of us have our selected Authors that we are a fan of .. And then there are those authors where were not so forgiving. But that’s a great thing. It creates variety. All of us here like the idea of a girl with super powers….Not all of us agree what kind of girl she should be.

“Ah, good taste! What a dreadful thing! Taste is the enemy of creativeness.”
Picasso said that.
Art is just human expression. As with people, you cant measure it, you cant compare it, you cant make it stop, you can just enjoy it (or not).
Dont worry about your posible critics, just enjoy writing your art and share it with the ones that like it.
At least it's what I do.

i don't know.

I am a semi professional writer but in an other fields(i am a screenwriter in the hopefully short phase of the writers career between-sold, and on screen). I came here to experiment a bit. My current work was an attempt to make something in the style of old time science fiction/ mixed with ubergirl fiction. Its not done, yet but so far the comments haven't been promising.- "Non native english speaker".

The irony is i am delibreatly attempting to duplicate a self conciously litteay style-which is not to say its a good thing, or a bad thing but it is a thing. Superhero fiction is genre often works best when simple. Ernest Hemingway is a very simple writer.

When i studied writing in critism theres a technique called state your biases what are you looking for:

For me at least what i am looking for in this genre is finding some intresting truth. Stories about superman, or supergirl almost never hinge on conflict. There invulnerable. Thats one of the facts. Its less the fighting in superman that makes him intresting but what can they say about him or his relationship to the world. Or Luthor or why he wants to fight him-but not the fighting itself.

That said, i fully understand the appeal of a good Strong girl beats up the world. Theres a place to that. and i wouldn't critique that. External vs Internal. Is the heroine someone we emphasis with or fear. both are kind of valid approaches. Superman, as had been pointed out, frequently kind of a dick- and theres a place in fiction for that.

To me at least what i don't like is stories that depend on a lot of exposition, especially hundreds of years before style exposition. I also don't like stories that depend to much on making the characters seem to cool, which is a flaw often in modern comics. But this is me, and i wouldn't critique that in others.

Which is i guess the issue. We can write as we write. I accept the fact that i am a thinking being with thoughts and opinions.

And i will say as a new guy-there have been stinkers on this page. But there have also been really great stories i have looked at over the years.

You have taken what is at heart a fairly simply limiting idea: Superwoman- and made dozens and hundred of exciting variations on it. I can only salute you for it and hope that you'll continue to write.

I hope to.

njae wrote: So this is my simple question: How much literally quality do you prefer?

For the most part, I only look for something entertaining. I take note of the theme, coherence of plot, characterization, conflict and yes creativity, especially by works of professionals. It varies.

eta: I should say I prefer something that feels more "cerebral", teasing the imagination rather a full blown in your face thing.

njae wrote: So this is my simple question: How much literally quality do you prefer?

I think asking about literary quality may miss the larger point. Personally, I like writing that is grammatically correct, pithy and visual— which I suppose adds up to “literary quality”. But that’s just me. Each of us has our own standard.

Ultimately, there are no awards to be won here, and there is no money to be made. Instead, you have to write the story that is compelling to you. If you choose to share it with others, then I view that as a gift, frankly—- a gift from you to the rest of the world. But the primary audience, Reader Number One, needs to remain you, the person who wrote it. You're the one who decides whether literary quality matters.

It’s too easy to fall into the trap of trying to be a crowd-pleaser, or trying to garner more accolades than the next guy. And whenever I fall into that trap, I am always be haunted by the fact, on any given day, that some authors might be getting more attention than me, that a particular work may not be getting feedback at all, or that some squeaky wheel has decided to mouth off in the name of constructive criticism.

Moreover, trying to be a crowd-pleaser means trying to implement standards that you yourself may not embrace. Whenever I do that, incoherent writing is the result.

We’re all human, and we all value the opinions of others. No author can resist checking the forums for feedback. In my case, I posted a few chapters of DDI this afternoon and, despite myself, have been checking the forums obsessively ever since. But I have to remind myself that my personal tastes are different than those of many readers, that I will never be able to write a story that is authentic to me and pleases everybody else as well.

I’m really happy that we have a website with forums and star ratings and favorites and workshop polling mechanisms. And I’m really grateful to the administrative team that maintains and funds such a robust site. But in the presence of all those feedback opportunities, the authors need to be all the more disciplined about following their inner muse.

njae wrote: Over the last few weeks I've read posts from several people who state that they don't expect any high quality literature here and are mainly in it for the quick fix. And now one of these posts was even paired with a "better no feedback than negative feedback"-comment. This is where I have to ask everyone: Is that true? Do we really just care for a straightforward, mostly action-oriented story about women with super powers using them in as many ways as possible in as short a time as possible?

I keep coming back to this and I have to ask; Are you short changing yourself by not expecting quality. Nobody here is a pro and certainly a number just do this for self indulgence. But most of the authors here read each others work, I doubt by doing so you didn't learn anything to expand your craft.

And yes for some it is just for a quick fix. It was sad to hear that building up tension, suspense and adding characterization is just "window dressing".

personally i prefer a lot of details, and how do you present it is important. i'm sure the writers are trying their best to create the connection. sometimes a simple story is entertaining too. for me it is to have fun while doing it. maybe people doesn't comment because they don't have the experience of writing?

Since the "windowdressing" bit of my comment is being used quite alot and, in my opinion, well out of context, I think I should clarify a bit.
I was talking explicitly about suspense in our type of stories. A few posts earlier we had an example where and how suspense would be possible. Of course that would work. But it would also (again, in my opinion) require a lot more background material in the story. Which would extend it's volume and eventually put it more in a romance/every day life/whatever category than into superwoman fiction. This would lower my interest in it and thereby raise the standards I'd require to continue reading it.
Unless we're talking exceptional writing, a story like that would probably end up in my "Nah, nice but not my thing." area.

The brevity of most of the stories puts a severe limit on the background that can be included in them, so mostly suspense would be something like "Will Supergirl make it out of the Kryptonite cave alive?" (I'm deliberately overgeneralizing here).

And since, as I presumed in my post in the earlier thread, the audience here expects the heroine to come out on top, so most of that suspense is usually just not there (for me), since I already (assume to) know the answer.

Of course a twist like that is nice to make for some diversity in the story, but due to all of our heroines having the superpower of "Will succeed in the end, because that's just the type of story we like to read.", I really don't see the difference between "SG slowly crawls out of the cave, barely surviving" and "With a smirk, SG snaps her fingers and the vibration shatters the Kryptonite into harmless, subatomic particles". Apart from the obvious difference in power level, of course.

I'm not saying, that it's impossible to create something that has the reader on the edge of his seat, but with the type of stories we get here and I read (regarding length, non-peril,...) it's just something I don't expect.



It's still kind of early here and I've had to work through three different papers on inter- and intracellular energy transport already, so the above might not be as coherent as I like. If so, point it out and I might clarify.

Anon wrote: Now a little confession. When I first get into this community (almost a decade ago), I had a preference for very simple and straightforward story. I didn't have the patience to read through some of the bigger, most elaborate narratives (like Brantley's or Shadar's) and went for immediate satisfaction over plot development. Things have changed and now I tend to go te other way, although some long stories are still above my abilities to read them in one sit.
...
For me the ability to add a significant amount of plot development, characterization and, possibly, suspence in a story is what defines an author's style.
Many of our stories falls into the Superman paradox - a.k.a. how can you challenge an 'almost invincible' being - as such having a good plot is paramount to keep things going, but what defines good is obviously subject to each one's interpretation. This is where feedback - especially from beta-readers/editors - is needed most, not because one should conform to the requests of the audience, but because the story have to be clear and effective. Often an author's ideas might not be as apparent as he would like them to be, which is major blow again the final result of the story, especially in the field of those 'window dressing' element from above.
Action is often the easiest part of a story, everything else is usually much harder, but also more significant in the end.

Sorry for the double-post, due to almost simultaneous posting.

The first part - interestingly it works just the other way around for me. When I first got "here", I think I first discovered the AU page and simply read everything I could find. Back then, I had just finished a second apprenticeship and started to give my A-Levels a second try. Now I'm working on my Master's degree in ecology and would love to read less, actually. So my preferences have shifted to the shorter works.

The second part - uhm, if someone is in doubt about what I was trying to say earlier, read Anon's paragraph.

Dru1076 wrote: I didn't read anywhere that no-one expects high-quality work here. Nor have read the quick-fix. I certainly try to write my stories as best I can. I hope I haven't the lowered the bar at SWM. What I like about this forum is the variety of people that come here, and the variety of stories. This is a community, and in any community you're going to get differences of opinion. Feedback is invaluable. But it can be destructive in some cases.

The "No one expects high quality work" and "Quick fix" parts were just paraphrased. The original comment was "If I want conflict and intrigue I'll turn to my other favorites, Neil Gaiman and Clive Barker. I come here for purely hedonistic reasons." and it inspired the "Hedonistic" thread where other's agreed with that. It's funny how comments that were meant to encourage one author were quite demotivating for another. Back then it was just the icing on the cake since it was in the same vein of something else that bothered me. When things repeated itself a few days ago all these bad memories came back. Anyway, Dru don't blame yourself for that.

jnw550 wrote: I don't want anyone to think that I was conveying that "no feedback is better than negative feedback", if that was what you were referring to. And maybe you weren't at all?
...
Anyway, to get back to what Njae was asking. No, I don't believe no feedback is better than "bad" feedback. It's the tone and attitude of the feedback I have issue with.

Your post back then sounded pretty clear on that matter. It's nice that you cleared up this misunderstanding, but that was not what I was asking about.

jnw550 wrote: I am with you and find that quality of story much more compelling and exciting to read. You do some awesome work yourself! I just don't get too over critical when I recognize a writer who is just selling over-powered fan service versus a writer who is truly trying to tell a story. However, I really enjoy over-powered fan service every now and again. I don't always want to have to put thought into a kink, know what I mean?

So things like consistent storytelling and characterization are a nice to have, but not important? Then you're not with me on this.

Esteban wrote: I guess the quality requirements vary as much as the categories do. For a quick fix of "bratty college girl gains powers and takes over the town", I don't need well-detailed characters. As long as the plot makes sense and the language doesn't make you stumble and think "what does that mean?" every five lines, it's a good story.

I agree in that the amount of characterization depends on the length of the overall story, but I won't tolerate a character that acts so sudden that it can be called "out of character". I've seen that happen in rather short stories.

d_k_c wrote: However if I wrote something that was sub par and beneath my standards (Not that I think those standards are incredibly high) I’d fully expect a kick in the ass. But JNW is right...an author might deserve somewhat of a food for thought as to why you feel that way, other than – You suck – eat shit and die

Been there, done that (not with you, but another veteran author), didn't work.

circes_cup wrote: Ultimately, there are no awards to be won here, and there is no money to be made. Instead, you have to write the story that is compelling to you. If you choose to share it with others, then I view that as a gift, frankly—- a gift from you to the rest of the world. But the primary audience, Reader Number One, needs to remain you, the person who wrote it. You're the one who decides whether literary quality matters.

That's the problem: I'm not going to write stories that I don't like. But brainstorming for several hours in the chat to flesh out the characters for a story that's more character-driven than ubergirl-action-driven at a time where it already looks like the majority prefers the latter over the former and THEN you get it spilled out in form of the aforementioned comments? That makes me wonder if it really is worth the effort - so I try to get a better view on the situation.

Lastleaf wrote: Are you short changing yourself by not expecting quality.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Skye wrote: Since the "windowdressing" bit of my comment is being used quite alot and, in my opinion, well out of context, I think I should clarify a bit.
I was talking explicitly about suspense in our type of stories. A few posts earlier we had an example where and how suspense would be possible. Of course that would work. But it would also (again, in my opinion) require a lot more background material in the story. Which would extend it's volume and eventually put it more in a romance/every day life/whatever category than into superwoman fiction. This would lower my interest in it and thereby raise the standards I'd require to continue reading it.
Unless we're talking exceptional writing, a story like that would probably end up in my "Nah, nice but not my thing." area.

At least I now know for sure that you and I have different tastes.

I think one of the biggest problems is parts and chapters. And yes, I realize that that’s probably the most hypocritical thing I will ever say.

IMO and in my personal experience Writing part 1 then part 2 and posting it, is for instant gratification. You are not sure if you want to continue writing…It all depends on the feedback you receive. In other words, you may think your writing for yourself….But the fact of the matter is you are not. If you were writing for yourself, you would finish the Story before posting it.

All stories have a beginning middle and end…except the stories with parts. They end up going nowhere or become so convoluted they become un-enjoyable. Or they just stop. As I say this, there are authors that are wondering…Is he talking about me? No! I’m primarily talking about my own stories. And yes…Yours as well.

I look at the development of Infinity Crisis….I honestly think it would have been great if I just stuck to the story I had in mind. If I had finished the story! But I changed it…..Then changed it again…and again. What do people think of this? What do people think of that?.... And Why? Because I wasn’t confident in my ability to write a story. Now Infinity Crisis is such a mess its going to need a couple of operations to get it in good order.

A couple of years ago I had decided that I won’t post a story unless it’s complete. That’s my satisfaction, now I know I’m writing for myself, by submitting a completed story. I owe that to myself and to the people that have followed my stories.

I will finish Infinity Crisis Chapter 7 and 8 are done….but I don’t want to submit it until the story is complete. Also I’ve been banging away for the Spring Workshop Story….Its a monster…And again it will be a completed story.

That’s my rant. And like I said, This is my experience….Not necessarily yours. So I don’t mean to offend anybody by posting this.

njae wrote:

Lastleaf wrote: Are you short changing yourself by not expecting quality.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Simple, if you require that you lower your bar of expectations just to enjoy something whether its a story, a movie or something, what does that say about ourselves. Aren't we just fooling our self?

d_k_c wrote: I think one of the biggest problems is parts and chapters. And yes, I realize that that’s probably the most hypocritical thing I will ever say.

IMO and in my personal experience Writing part 1 then part 2 and posting it, is for instant gratification. You are not sure if you want to continue writing…It all depends on the feedback you receive. In other words, you may think your writing for yourself….But the fact of the matter is you are not. If you were writing for yourself, you would finish the Story before posting it.

All stories have a beginning middle and end…except the stories with parts. They end up going nowhere or become so convoluted they become un-enjoyable. Or they just stop. As I say this, there are authors that are wondering…Is he talking about me? No! I’m primarily talking about my own stories. And yes…Yours as well.

I disagree. I think the biggest problem is that the stories here virtually write themselves. We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

Lastleaf wrote: [...]We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

Wow. For me, that was eye-openingly clear. Kind of gets me wondering why I've read tons of stories, year on year, that follow the same general scheme. I guess it's awesome ^^ Sure there are exceptions, but still. I'm kinda wowed

njae wrote:

jnw550 wrote: I don't want anyone to think that I was conveying that "no feedback is better than negative feedback", if that was what you were referring to. And maybe you weren't at all?
...
Anyway, to get back to what Njae was asking. No, I don't believe no feedback is better than "bad" feedback. It's the tone and attitude of the feedback I have issue with.

Your post back then sounded pretty clear on that matter. It's nice that you cleared up this misunderstanding, but that was not what I was asking about.

I'm pretty certain that was one of you're initial questions in your first post.

Anyway, in regards to Lastleaf's comments, in terms of lowering our expectations. To use the movie analogy d_k_c had in another thread, when "Army of Darkness" came out I knew that it would be dreadfully bad, but entertaining, and I didn't mind that because that's all I wanted, to be entertained. However, when I recently watched "Lincoln" I knew that if I was going to understand the movie I was going to have to be engaged. I expected that.

I don't think I've lowered my expectations overall, I just realize that movies, or stories, has it's own place and purpose and not all of them have to be deeply engaging with over-arching plots and heavily involved characterization.

Honestly, I think it would be unfair of me to demand that from any writer here because I'm getting to enjoy it for free.

I know some of you hate that argument, but there is a difference between wasting money on a bad movie and wasting time on a bad story.

Having said that, I'm certainly not saying that we should not give feedback. Hell, if you post your story here, then you open yourself up to that anyway. If a writer doesn't want feedback then they shouldn't post here.

Lastleaf pretty much nailed the general story structure of most the library. It made me think back to a time when I actually tried to make an effort to write a decent story. I had a supergirl that made the ultimate sacrifice, her life, but in the end, she won. I just didn't think it would be well received because the supergirl dies.

I'm not mature enough as a writer to convey it properly. The ideas are in my head, but I'm not good enough to put it in "print".

njae wrote: Over the last few weeks I've read posts from several people who state that they don't expect any high quality literature here and are mainly in it for the quick fix. And now one of these posts was even paired with a "better no feedback than negative feedback"-comment. This is where I have to ask everyone: Is that true? Do we really just care for a straightforward, mostly action-oriented story about women with super powers using them in as many ways as possible in as short a time as possible?

So do things like consistent and believable characterization or the overall plot even have a sense that goes beyong ... how was it called? ... windowdressing? I mean, sure it would be a bit much to expect literal masterpieces here, but does it really hurt to expect a certain amount of quality in certain areas? As for me, I try to write my stories with as much quality as I can, so I'm always eager to get some detailed feedback so I can improve on that. We all know how good this goes, so I'm really grateful for my beta readers here. I don't want to open the "lack of feedback" discussion again, but the lack of feedback didn't really help in shrugging off said comments, meaning that they are getting more and more demotivating each time I hear them.

So this is my simple question: How much literally quality do you prefer?

As much as possible, obviously. But how do you learn? One way is by reading, and I don't mean just other superheroine fiction. What do you read now? Do you have favorite authors whose words keep going through your head, whose characters stick in your mind? I came to this genre, as many have, because it was a turn-on. But the way I've written my Aurora Universe stories hasn't come from comic books, or even primarily from Shadar. I've been a science fiction reader nearly all my life, and my head is full of words and mental images from writers as diverse as Cordwainer Smith and C.J. Cherryh. Somehow their influences all come together and combine and recombine in different ways, and I can use them in writing my superheroine fiction. It's almost impossible to explain, although some of my borrowings are fairly simple -- like the dual honorific ("Sir and Captain," etc.) for Kelsorians; that comes straight from Smith, albeit with a variation for women ("Dame and Ensign," etc.). The opening of THRONE OF THE GODS combines variations on those of two Smith stories. But mostly, it's more subtle, as it should be. It's a matter of getting the feel of the writing.

--Brantley

Just a quick note...

I'm assuming Quality is a perspectively speaking term.

Afterall - If My Super Ex Girlfriend was written here....I'd consider it a Master piece....But I'm not overly fond of the movie. Get what I mean?

This is quite the interesting thread. I hardly know where to start on the comments

1) It is tough to be a newbie at most anything, and posting your first story on a site like this can be very intimidating,but fortunately there are folks who can and will help you (Argo was my mentor). I look back at some of my earliest stories and cringe.

2) I don't think that you can write a "Hit" story any more than a musician can write a "Hit" song. Just ask the B-52's about "Love Shack." A while back I was feeling bad that I had not submitted an entry for a particular workshop. It was extended and I had four little ideas for a story and knocked it out one weekend afternoon within a week of the final deadline. It wasn't very long, but it was sexy which never hurts when your are trying for commercial success, and it had plenty of action. It was OK, but I would hardy consider it my best work. It has become the number three most viewed story on this site. Go figure.

3) Several years ago I was somewhat depressed about events in the Middle East and wrote a story that just about got be shouted off this site. I never saw that coming either, but fortunately a few people who knew me fairly well came to my defense and in time the whole thing blew over. My point here is that I write things that I have strong feelings about or that I like and hope that others will as well, but until you write it and post it, you can never predict how it will be received.

4) Never make your hobby your job. It was interesting what DKC said about chapter stories. Usually I have a start and an ending, and I sort of know where I am going to go with it, but until I start writing,I don't really know what is going to happen as I frequently come up with new ideas, especially with stories that go on for a long time.

TSOS Has a very definite outline and always has. We pretty much knew where we were starting, what the road would be and were we would end up, but like so many other projects, new ideas came in and we expanded the story line by at least 50% in size. But do you want to keep working on the same story year in and year out to the exclusion of everything else, or do you want to relax and do what you are in the mood to do at the time? When it becomes a dreaded job, then it is time to shift gears.

5) In reality, I write for a very small group, and that is myself and the other authors on the site who have provided me with so much enjoyment over the years. I like action, but I also love to both read and write plot twists, and the best ones are those that you never see coming. Toss in some nice sexy Supergirl action and you have a winner, in my book at least. But like they say, to each his own and with the fantastic re-seeding job that has been going on over the past year, everybody should be able to find several good stories on this site that are to their liking.